The Jesus Freaks

morph · Post by **morph** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:30 pm

Caleb the Cruel wrote:
morph wrote:haha like they havnt already with saying that someone should only be able to join if they believe in jesus
Oh come on!
It's called the JESUS Freaks!!!

ya and as such you should follow said "Jesus" and follow what he taught in general, acceptance of all, go ahead try and convert anyone you want, but you must accept them for whom they are before you can convert them, and as for Jay saying a fellowship with other christians, ive met some pretty hypocritical christians, who read and listen to tv shows about acceptance of all yet hate everyone who isint christian... you are all in a loop, trying to preach to convert yet you hate everyone until they convert and say they are damned to hell.... well excuse me, if your god and jesus is willing to go against acceptance of everyone and the belief that everyone can be saved with enough time... ill take hell...

Jargo The Axe · Post by **Jargo The Axe** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:35 pm

hey look into the JC Warriors if you have a problem with the Jesus Freaks.
if you don't sweet!! It'd be nice to have another Christian clan around.

Paulicus · Post by **Paulicus** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:17 am

morph wrote:
Caleb the Cruel wrote:
morph wrote:haha like they havnt already with saying that someone should only be able to join if they believe in jesus
Oh come on!
It's called the JESUS Freaks!!!
ya and as such you should follow said "Jesus" and follow what he taught in general, acceptance of all, go ahead try and convert anyone you want, but you must accept them for whom they are before you can convert them, and as for Jay saying a fellowship with other christians, ive met some pretty hypocritical christians, who read and listen to tv shows about acceptance of all yet hate everyone who isint christian... you are all in a loop, trying to preach to convert yet you hate everyone until they convert and say they are damned to hell.... well excuse me, if your god and jesus is willing to go against acceptance of everyone and the belief that everyone can be saved with enough time... ill take hell...

?? We are called to accept and forgive you... but you are called to leave your old self behind and sin no more.. slightly diferent than accepting you in your sinful ways.. but also we are supposed to guide you to Jesus, but you seem not to accept that and only rebuke us for trying.

Jargo The Axe · Post by **Jargo The Axe** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:24 am

paulicus is right on that one

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:58 am

how about trying coherently and by using rational arguments?

I mean, "BELIEVE IN JESUS AND REPENT YOUR SINS OR YOU WILL BURN IN A LAKE OF FIRE!" is a pretty catchy slogan, but one can't possibly use it as an argument and expect to convert anyone with even half a functional brain.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:35 pm

MeDeFe wrote:
"BELIEVE IN JESUS AND REPENT YOUR SINS OR YOU WILL BURN IN A LAKE OF FIRE!"

Who here at CC has used this argument?

Although that isn't effective, I recall a movie , I think it was called "A Theif In the Night" . Where this woman says to a minister who was "left behind" after the Rapture "Why didn't you tell us this was going to happen in any of your sermons?" To which he replied, "I didn't want to scare my congragation away". She responded by saying, "I'd of rather been scared into believing, than to have to go through this!" (all lines paraphased)

However using the "You'll burn in Hell argument" does not work because many people don't believe it exists.

OnlyAmbrose · Post by **OnlyAmbrose** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:07 pm

jay_a2j wrote:However using the "You'll burn in Hell argument" does not work because many people don't believe it exists.

It also doesn't work for a far more important reason. God doesn't want us to love Him just because if we don't we'll burn in hell. He wants us to love Him because he created us and gave us this world to live in, and simply because He loves us.

happysadfun · Post by **happysadfun** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:38 pm

Amen and hallelujah.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:42 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:However using the "You'll burn in Hell argument" does not work because many people don't believe it exists.
It also doesn't work for a far more important reason. God doesn't want us to love Him just because if we don't we'll burn in hell. He wants us to love Him because he created us and gave us this world to live in, and simply because He loves us.

True. But if Hell were a matter of fact more people would seek God. By fact I mean that there was physical evidence of it.

morph · Post by **morph** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:48 pm

Ah but Jay, if there was physical evidence of hell, do not forget, that would also mean physical evidence of heaven, and that would convert many into believers just because they want the evidence that heaven exsits for sure, and as for the sin thing and about the JF's accepting me and my "sinful ways" everyone in JF is sinful first and foremost, as even Jay admits to being sinful, and Jay is as far as i know the most outspoken for people to believe in Jesus and your God..... soo whats the damage of accepting me and my sinful ways, i mean if you surround me with god scriptures and preaching im bound to be brainwashed into some kind of faith in god at some point...

(im not saying im going to join, in fact im never likely to, but I just want it to be open to everyone as Jesus was accepting of everyone)

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:27 am

And that's another thing that will never work on anyone with 2 thirds of a functional brain, saying "God wants this and god wants that", because you don't have a fucking idea what he wants if he even exists. You're basing it on hearsay and some old anthology that was compiled over a period of roughly 2500 years.

happysadfun · Post by **happysadfun** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:51 am

The current results of the exit/opinion poll are that Knight is winning. but
a) it's not official
and
b)not all the votes are in.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:13 am

MeDeFe wrote:IN A LAKE OF FIRE!

Where is this lake anyway? Can we waterski there? Kneeboarding might be better, but doing a faceplant into fire would probably sting. Does it have a dock where we can get gas, beer & munchies?

And why a lake anyway? "POND OF FIRE!" or "WADING POOL OF FIRE!" just doesnt frighten the kids enough I guess...but OCEAN OF FIRE would have been much better.

You guys are just silly...

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:24 am

Backglass wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:IN A LAKE OF FIRE!
Where is this lake anyway? Can we waterski there? Kneeboarding might be better, but doing a faceplant into fire would probably sting. Does it have a dock where we can get gas, beer & munchies?

And why a lake anyway? "POND OF FIRE!" or "WADING POOL OF FIRE!" just doesnt frighten the kids enough I guess...but OCEAN OF FIRE would have been much better.

You guys are just silly...

Truely sad. Back, I feel sorry for you man. Why can't you step back from yourself and ask, "What if they are right?", "What if Hell is real?". Instead of make fun of it. It really is too big of an issue to not invest some reserch into. Because if there is an afterlife, your 70- 90 years on Earth will seem like nothing. And spending all that time denying an afterlife might someday be the most ironic thing you have ever witnessed.

OnlyAmbrose · Post by **OnlyAmbrose** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:29 am

jay_a2j wrote:
Backglass wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:IN A LAKE OF FIRE!
Where is this lake anyway? Can we waterski there? Kneeboarding might be better, but doing a faceplant into fire would probably sting. Does it have a dock where we can get gas, beer & munchies?

And why a lake anyway? "POND OF FIRE!" or "WADING POOL OF FIRE!" just doesnt frighten the kids enough I guess...but OCEAN OF FIRE would have been much better.

You guys are just silly...

Truely sad. Back, I feel sorry for you man. Why can't you step back from yourself and ask, "What if they are right?", "What if Hell is real?". Instead of make fun of it. It really is too big of an issue to not invest some reserch into. Because if there is an afterlife, your 70- 90 years on Earth will seem like nothing. And spending all that time denying an afterlife might someday be the most ironic thing you have ever witnessed.

I don't know what it is with the obsession with hell you two have (jay and HSF). YES it's a reality, and YES it is something to be avoided, but do you really want people to begin a relationship with God out of fear of hell?

Perhaps it would be better for them to begin by loving God.

A better thing to ask yourself, Backglass, would be:

"What if they are right? What if there is a God who loves me unconditionally and wants to see me reach out to Him with open arms? What if there is a God who is watching me with loving eyes, waiting for me to run into His arms like a child to his father?"

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:38 am

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
Backglass wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:IN A LAKE OF FIRE!
Where is this lake anyway? Can we waterski there? Kneeboarding might be better, but doing a faceplant into fire would probably sting. Does it have a dock where we can get gas, beer & munchies?

And why a lake anyway? "POND OF FIRE!" or "WADING POOL OF FIRE!" just doesnt frighten the kids enough I guess...but OCEAN OF FIRE would have been much better.

You guys are just silly...

Truely sad. Back, I feel sorry for you man. Why can't you step back from yourself and ask, "What if they are right?", "What if Hell is real?". Instead of make fun of it. It really is too big of an issue to not invest some reserch into. Because if there is an afterlife, your 70- 90 years on Earth will seem like nothing. And spending all that time denying an afterlife might someday be the most ironic thing you have ever witnessed.
I don't know what it is with the obsession with hell you two have (jay and HSF). YES it's a reality, and YES it is something to be avoided, but do you really want people to begin a relationship with God out of fear of hell?

Perhaps it would be better for them to begin by loving God.

A better thing to ask yourself, Backglass, would be:

"What if they are right? What if there is a God who loves me unconditionally and wants to see me reach out to Him with open arms? What if there is a God who is watching me with loving eyes, waiting for me to run into His arms like a child to his father?"

Well speaking for myself, I'm not "obsessed" with hell. I am also not afraid to talk about it, as Jesus himself did many times. It's a reality.... unfortunately a reality that even alot of Christians would rather not talk about. And it is a shame that ministers will not preach on the subject when Jesus took the time to.

OnlyAmbrose · Post by **OnlyAmbrose** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:46 am

Oh, I am FAR from afraid of talking about hell. I have defended its existance on several past occasions, in fact, and it is a firm belief of mine that hell is a terrible reality. I am perfectly comfortable discussing it.

Does that mean I think the foundation of faith should be fear of hell? Pardon my French, but hell no!

Faith should be based on love of God and His love for us. As such, I think the self-survey which you presented to Backglass may have been a little off. God does not want to see us in hell, so I think it may be good to question based off of what God DOES want.

And I think this:

"What if they are right? What if there is a God who loves me unconditionally and wants to see me reach out to Him with open arms? What if there is a God who is watching me with loving eyes, waiting for me to run into His arms like a child to his father?"

is far more representative of God's love for us than this:

"What if they are right?", "What if Hell is real?"

To be frank, I would much rather be right about God's love for us than hell's existance. Of course, I am quite certain I am right about both.

Just my opinion of course

2dimes · Post by **2dimes** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:56 am

I probably can't say this without insulting someone and their religion but I'm going to beak off anyhow so bummer.

That's pretty cool to see this from a catholic dude.

OnlyAmbrose wrote:do you really want people to begin a relationship with God out of fear of hell?

A better thing to ask yourself, Backglass, would be:

"What if they are right? What if there is a God who loves me unconditionally and wants to see me reach out to Him with open arms? What if there is a God who is watching me with loving eyes, waiting for me to run into His arms like a child to his father?"

Generally speaking they're the first to pull the. "LOOK OUT!! God's really mad at us and you're gonna get it!"

So nice job dude on avoiding the traditional stereotypical behavior.

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:19 pm

MeDeFe wrote:And that's another thing that will never work on anyone with 2 thirds of a functional brain, saying "God wants this and god wants that", because you don't have a fucking idea what he wants if he even exists. You're basing it on hearsay and some old anthology that was compiled over a period of roughly 2500 years.

OnlyAmbrose wrote:Faith should be based on love of God and His love for us. As such, I think the self-survey which you presented to Backglass may have been a little off. God does not want to see us in hell, so I think it may be good to question based off of what God DOES want.

You don't know what he wants, you only say he wants what you want him to want or thinks he wants, if he even exists, that is.

Paulicus · Post by **Paulicus** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:09 pm

I think as a general message here to all believers and non-believers is that the only thing that will be acomplished in the forum setting like this is debate.. mostly because that is all the non-believers wish to do here.. It is an oppertunity to discredit us, and in their own minds disprove us.

I think, as far as I can see at this point, that the only quote that will work here is Mattew 7:7
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."
On further note I don't see much active seeking by non-believers here.. just debate.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:30 pm

Paulicus wrote:I think as a general message here to all believers and non-believers is that the only thing that will be acomplished in the forum setting like this is debate.. mostly because that is all the non-believers wish to do here.. It is an oppertunity to discredit us, and in their own minds disprove us.

I think, as far as I can see at this point, that the only quote that will work here is Mattew 7:7
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."
On further note I don't see much active seeking by non-believers here.. just debate.

Sought, asked, and knocked. This is the knowledge I was given by the Divine: The Bible may be important, that's why it's a best seller. However, it isn't the end-all, be-all of God's word. God lives in our hearts, not in some book. I recieved this information in a grand epiphany. Take it, leave it, I don't care. There's obviously a reason that God never told you this thing. Mayhaps you haven't explored all other things enough to be able to accept it.

happysadfun · Post by **happysadfun** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:38 pm

Stay out of here if you're not in the clan.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:49 pm

happysadfun wrote:Stay out of here if you're not in the clan.

I may not be an official member, but I can defy that.

*clears throat*

I am a member!

By my statement of intent, I am now a member. Nyahnyahnyah!

I'll leave now...

mightyal · Post by **mightyal** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:51 pm

I vote for happysad as leader. He's got tood.

morph · Post by **morph** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:54 pm

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
Backglass wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:IN A LAKE OF FIRE!
Where is this lake anyway? Can we waterski there? Kneeboarding might be better, but doing a faceplant into fire would probably sting. Does it have a dock where we can get gas, beer & munchies?

And why a lake anyway? "POND OF FIRE!" or "WADING POOL OF FIRE!" just doesnt frighten the kids enough I guess...but OCEAN OF FIRE would have been much better.

You guys are just silly...

Truely sad. Back, I feel sorry for you man. Why can't you step back from yourself and ask, "What if they are right?", "What if Hell is real?". Instead of make fun of it. It really is too big of an issue to not invest some reserch into. Because if there is an afterlife, your 70- 90 years on Earth will seem like nothing. And spending all that time denying an afterlife might someday be the most ironic thing you have ever witnessed.
I don't know what it is with the obsession with hell you two have (jay and HSF). YES it's a reality, and YES it is something to be avoided, but do you really want people to begin a relationship with God out of fear of hell?

Perhaps it would be better for them to begin by loving God.

A better thing to ask yourself, Backglass, would be:

"What if they are right? What if there is a God who loves me unconditionally and wants to see me reach out to Him with open arms? What if there is a God who is watching me with loving eyes, waiting for me to run into His arms like a child to his father?"

well if that is so... umm then when i see it ill run into it's arms like a child to his/her father/mother... if god is all loving unconditionally then god will understand me questioning the existance, and if god loves unconditionally then there will be no hell as he loves everyone enough to let them in unconditionally..

The Jesus Freaks

Who should be leader of, "The Jesus Freaks", in your opinion?