Faith

[OnlyAmbrose]

My best friend is a liberal. I don't hate her.

Ooooh! I bet that makes for a tough friendship. lol Like a conservative that marries a liberal! (I don't know how people can do that) lol

nah, she's a rare thing- a liberal who comes up with her OWN conclusions and hates the media as much as I do

[reverend_kyle]

My best friend is a liberal. I don't hate her.

Ooooh! I bet that makes for a tough friendship. lol Like a conservative that marries a liberal! (I don't know how people can do that) lol

nah, she's a rare thing- a liberal who comes up with her OWN conclusions and hates the media as much as I do

Jay doesnt know how to tolerate other peoples ideas... most of my friends are republican... then again I live in idaho. But when we start talking politics they end up conceding.

[jay_a2j]

Jay doesnt know how to tolerate other peoples ideas... most of my friends are republican... then again I live in idaho. But when we start talking politics they end up conceding.

"Tolerance" is a liberal term. And one that they are hypocritical about as well. We must be tolerant of everyone else but THEY are not tolerant of:

Christians

Those who say Merry Christmas

Smokers

Pro-lifers

Alternatives to child rearing besides the "time out"

and conservative thinking as a whole

And I bet they end up conceding. You should get friends who stand firm in their beliefs and not so easily swayed. "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

[vtmarik]

"Tolerance" is a liberal term.

Tolerance is a word, not a term. "Lustrous" is a term. "Ductility" is a term.[/quote]

And one that they are hypocritical about as well. We must be tolerant of everyone else but THEY are not tolerant of:

Another one of your lists eh? Ugh. Well, before we launch off into exaggeration land, let's remember that there's a fine line between tolerance and the party platform. They have to appeal to their hardliners, so they won't publicly tolerate these things.

Christians

"Waaaa, my kids have to learn about evolution! And they're passing out condoms! And there's no christmas plays anymore!"

Grow some thicker skin man, if you don't like the way your fragile, Christian children are being taught you have the option of sending them to a religious school or even home schooling them. Remember, public school means public money. Public money cannot fund a private religion.

Those who say Merry Christmas

The reason there's so much hullabaloo over "Merry Christmas" is simply because:
Christmas isn't the only damned holiday in December!

How would you feel if everyone said Happy Chanukah rather than your precious Merry Christmas? I think you'd be highly pissed. Happy holidays (by the way, the word holiday comes from the phrase "Holy Day") springs from the fact that there are three holidays in December: Christmas, Chanukah, and Kwanzaa. The sooner that you accept this fact, the sooner you can focus on the more important issues to your life, rather than the things that Bill-O thinks are important.

Smokers

Well, that's just because they're stupid. If someone wants to smoke, then they have that right. The liberal anti-smoking activists have flawed studies to back up their nonsense, and basically are just trying to push their opinions on others.

I'm pro-smoker, and the only reason I don't smoke (other than the diseases) is that my sister would kick my ass.

Pro-lifers

Why should the Liberals be tolerant of Pro-lifers when they aren't tolerant of pro-choicers? This is party politics, not intolerance. The liberals are pro-choice, thus they have to be against the pro-life side. This is just one of those things that you have to accept and move on.

Alternatives to child rearing besides the "time out"

That's not only a liberal thing, I'd venture to say that that's a "White" thing. Whitey loves to send kids to their rooms. If you want to physically discipline your kids, go right ahead. But there's a fine line between discipline and giving your kid a black eye because you got carried away.

and conservative thinking as a whole

Well, if they tolerated that, they wouldn't be liberal now would they?

And I bet they end up conceding. You should get friends who stand firm in their beliefs and not so easily swayed. "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

Oh stop trying to force your beliefs on others Jay. Friendship goes beyond political affiliation, you jerk.

[jay_a2j]

"Tolerance" is a liberal term.

Tolerance is a word, not a term. "Lustrous" is a term. "Ductility" is a term.

And one that they are hypocritical about as well. We must be tolerant of everyone else but THEY are not tolerant of:

Another one of your lists eh? Ugh. Well, before we launch off into exaggeration land, let's remember that there's a fine line between tolerance and the party platform. They have to appeal to their hardliners, so they won't publicly tolerate these things.

"Waaaa, my kids have to learn about evolution! And they're passing out condoms! And there's no christmas plays anymore!"

Grow some thicker skin man, if you don't like the way your fragile, Christian children are being taught you have the option of sending them to a religious school or even home schooling them. Remember, public school means public money. Public money cannot fund a private religion.My public money should be able to go to whatever schooling I choose for my kids, yet the libs oppose school vouchers.

Those who say Merry Christmas

The reason there's so much hullabaloo over "Merry Christmas" is simply because:
Christmas isn't the only damned holiday in December!

How would you feel if everyone said Happy Chanukah rather than your precious Merry Christmas? I think you'd be highly pissed. Happy holidays (by the way, the word holiday comes from the phrase "Holy Day") springs from the fact that there are three holidays in December: Christmas, Chanukah, and Kwanzaa. The sooner that you accept this fact, the sooner you can focus on the more important issues to your life, rather than the things that Bill-O thinks are important.It was fine for the better part of 250 years, why allof the sudden is it "offensive"?

Smokers

Well, that's just because they're stupid. If someone wants to smoke, then they have that right. The liberal anti-smoking activists have flawed studies to back up their nonsense, and basically are just trying to push their opinions on others.

I'm pro-smoker, and the only reason I don't smoke (other than the diseases) is that my sister would kick my ass.

Pro-lifers

Why should the Liberals be tolerant of Pro-lifers when they aren't tolerant of pro-choicers? This is party politics, not intolerance. The liberals are pro-choice, thus they have to be against the pro-life side. This is just one of those things that you have to accept and move on.

Alternatives to child rearing besides the "time out"

That's not only a liberal thing, I'd venture to say that that's a "White" thing. Whitey loves to send kids to their rooms. If you want to physically discipline your kids, go right ahead. But there's a fine line between discipline and giving your kid a black eye because you got carried away.

and conservative thinking as a whole

Well, if they tolerated that, they wouldn't be liberal now would they?

And I bet they end up conceding. You should get friends who stand firm in their beliefs and not so easily swayed. "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

Oh stop trying to force your beliefs on others Jay. Friendship goes beyond political affiliation, you jerk.[/quote] I am not against having friends that have a different political standing then myself. But I'll be damned if I let them make me "concede" as rev_kyle's friends apparently do.

[OnlyAmbrose]

I think the reason political correctness is a one-way street these days (meaning the only people you can't offend are liberals, minorities, etc) is because conservative Christians DO have "thicker skin". We don't whine up a storm (at least not as loudly) as many minorities do when THEY get offended. Personally, though it frustrates me, I'm PROUD that I have to work my butt off to pay for college, because it shows that I won't lower myself to the level of getting scholarships because of my race (which I couldn't if I tried ).

I'm proud that people get pissed off when I say "Merry Christmas".

I'm proud that I pray in school even though it's "not allowed".

I'm proud that "under God" is in the pledge of allegiance, and even more proud that I would say it even if it weren't.

I'm proud to be pro-life despite what the rest of America may think.

I'm proud that even if condoms were to be handed out in my school, I would never take one.

I'm proud to be conservative despite the fact that liberals are so much louder.

All in all, jay, I agree with you that we take a lot of heat because of our beliefs, but I think we take it because we can. And, to a degree, because we have to.

[Jolly Roger]

I think the reason political correctness is a one-way street these days (meaning the only people you can't offend are liberals, minorities, etc) is because conservative Christians DO have "thicker skin". We don't whine up a storm (at least not as loudly) as many minorities do when THEY get offended. Personally, though it frustrates me, I'm PROUD that I have to work my butt off to pay for college, because it shows that I won't lower myself to the level of getting scholarships because of my race (which I couldn't if I tried :P ).

I'm proud that people get pissed off when I say "Merry Christmas".

I'm proud that I pray in school even though it's "not allowed".

I'm proud that "under God" is in the pledge of allegiance, and even more proud that I would say it even if it weren't.

I'm proud to be pro-life despite what the rest of America may think.

I'm proud that even if condoms were to be handed out in my school, I would never take one.

I'm proud to be conservative despite the fact that liberals are so much louder.

All in all, jay, I agree with you that we take a lot of heat because of our beliefs, but I think we take it because we can. And, to a degree, because we have to. :)

Are you proud to present yourself as a victim at any and every opportunity?

If you and jay had been born in Afghanistan, do you suppose you might have made very good Taliban?

[OnlyAmbrose]

I think the reason political correctness is a one-way street these days (meaning the only people you can't offend are liberals, minorities, etc) is because conservative Christians DO have "thicker skin". We don't whine up a storm (at least not as loudly) as many minorities do when THEY get offended. Personally, though it frustrates me, I'm PROUD that I have to work my butt off to pay for college, because it shows that I won't lower myself to the level of getting scholarships because of my race (which I couldn't if I tried ).

I'm proud that people get pissed off when I say "Merry Christmas".

I'm proud that I pray in school even though it's "not allowed".

I'm proud that "under God" is in the pledge of allegiance, and even more proud that I would say it even if it weren't.

I'm proud to be pro-life despite what the rest of America may think.

I'm proud that even if condoms were to be handed out in my school, I would never take one.

I'm proud to be conservative despite the fact that liberals are so much louder.

All in all, jay, I agree with you that we take a lot of heat because of our beliefs, but I think we take it because we can. And, to a degree, because we have to.

Are you proud to present yourself as a victim at any and every opportunity?

If you and jay had been born in Afghanistan, do you suppose you might have made very good Taliban?

Making myself a victim? Hardly, I think I'm simply stating the facts. In order:

1) I can't get a scholarship because of my race.

2) People do get pissed off when I say "Merry Christmas".

3) Prayer time is not allowed in schools.

4) The "under God" phrase in the pledge is in jeopardy

5) The pro-life stance is often considered bigoted

6) There is serious consideration being put into making condoms readily available at schools.

7) Liberals do generally have a far louder voice in the media.

I fail to see how I'm attempting to make myself a victim. If I had my way, there would be no race-based scholarships, I could say Merry Christmas without people getting ticked off, I could pray in school, the nation would allow "under God" to remain without argument, that pro-life be a commonly accepted belief, that more people reconize how disgusting it is tha tcondoms be handed out freely in school, and that the liberals quiet down.

But since none of that is likely to happen, I do hold pride that I can maintain my practices and beliefs in spite of it all.

[Backglass]

I am not against having friends that have a different political standing then myself. But I'll be damned if I let them make me "concede" as rev_kyle's friends apparently do.

That is because you have no ability to comprehend an opinion other than your own. With you jay, it's "My way or the highway".

[vtmarik]

Making myself a victim? Hardly, I think I'm simply stating the facts. In order:

1) I can't get a scholarship because of my race.

Yeah, Affirmative Action is kinda one-sided.

2) People do get pissed off when I say "Merry Christmas".

Let 'em, I like it when people get offended.

3) Prayer time is not allowed in schools.

That's because not everyone prays, why should everyone be forced to pray at the same time? Shouldn't prayer be a private thing and done whenever you feel it is necessary? I mean, you don't need permission to pray so why create a 'moment of silence' so you can?

4) The "under God" phrase in the pledge is in jeopardy

Well, considering the whole amazing riot over it when the suit was first brought, I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon. It is, however, unnecessary now. It was added in to weed out the godless communists back in the 50s. I say we replace the whole pledge, considering its origins, and get a new pledge to something that actually is a symbol of our freedom: The Constitution.

5) The pro-life stance is often considered bigoted

Really?

6) There is serious consideration being put into making condoms readily available at schools.

If you raised your kids according to your values, they won't use them. Also, consider the fact that the Promise Keepers have a high rate of not keeping their vow and either getting pregnant or getting a disease because they weren't prepared. Kids are going to have sex because A) It's new and B) It's a biological drive that all animals have. Why not give them the basic knowledge and the tools to keep themselves from going too far? Besides, condom distribution is not about kids having sex, it's about kids not getting pregnant or catching disease. Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc: Kids don't start thinking about sex because they are given a condom.

7) Liberals do generally have a far louder voice in the media.

Conservatives have just as much clout in the media as Liberals, if they didn't do you think anyone at Fox News would still be on the air? What major issue got the most attention in the 2004 election? Kerry and his Swift Boat scandal. What about 2000? I heard nothing but bad things about Gore. Would the liberals slam their own candidate?

I fail to see how I'm attempting to make myself a victim. If I had my way, there would be no race-based scholarships, I could say Merry Christmas without people getting ticked off, I could pray in school, the nation would allow "under God" to remain without argument, that pro-life be a commonly accepted belief, that more people recognize how disgusting it is that condoms be handed out freely in school, and that the liberals quiet down.

So your world would be the opposite of mine, where people can have their own opinions and have the tools to stick to their guns.

But since none of that is likely to happen, I do hold pride that I can maintain my practices and beliefs in spite of it all.

That's good, no one's trying to convert you. However, and I've said this to Jay, please be kind enough to leave the rest of us where we are. We're never going to develop as a people if we keep focusing on the picayune non-issues of condoms and prayer

[Backglass]

1) I can't get a scholarship because of my race.

Utter BS. My very white, very blonde niece got a full ride.

2) People do get pissed off when I say "Merry Christmas".

Who are these people? Even here in liberal New York I have never heard or seen anyone get angry at this.

3) Prayer time is not allowed in schools.

As it should be. Save it for your house/church...all religions. If you dont like it, enroll in a private christian academy where I dont have to pay for it.

4) The "under God" phrase in the pledge is in jeopardy

As it should be. It is not part of the original pledge and was added in 1954 during the McCarthy, communist scare era. It should be restored to it's original wording, as intended by the author. The grandson of the pledge's author says he would have resented this change. The pledge is to our country...not a god.

5) The pro-life stance is often considered bigoted

OK.

6) There is serious consideration being put into making condoms readily available at schools.

I do not believe that making condoms available encourages sex, as others seem to. Regardless, I am ambivalent about this one as I will have talked to my children openly about sex long before high school and will provide my son with his own condoms, should he ask me for some.

7) Liberals do generally have a far louder voice in the media.

Thanks Limbaugh. Everyone believes you now. Say something enough and it becomes fact.

But since none of that is likely to happen, I do hold pride that I can maintain my practices and beliefs in spite of it all.

Absolutely. You can do anything you wish at home or in your church. That's America! Go nuts!

[2dimes]

Prayer time is not allowed in schools.

That's because not everyone prays, why should everyone be forced to pray at the same time? Shouldn't prayer be a private thing and done whenever you feel it is necessary? I mean, you don't need permission to pray so why create a 'moment of silence' so you can?

I think that one is interesting too, in the new testament there is talk about going into your closet and prying in private. Yet people get all wound up because prayer is banned in schools.

I think society in Canada is degraded just as much because patriotism was taken out of schools.

Then again I started school in the 1970s so I didn't go to school before prayer taken out.

[vtmarik]

I think that one is interesting too, in the new testament there is talk about going into your closet and prying in private. Yet people get all wound up because prayer is banned in schools.

Yes Jesus said that only the hypocrites pray in public, that they pray loudly so others will hear them. Meanwhile the true believers are encouraged to pray in private, away from the hypocrites.

I think society in Canada is degraded just as much because patriotism was taken out of schools.

Then again I started school in the 1970s so I didn't go to school before prayer taken out.

When I went to Elementary school, we had a moment of silence at the beginning of the day. It wasn't anything, just a moment of silence. And you know what happened? The school got rid of it so teachers could teach, there was no outrage.

It's not like there's an atheist hiding in every shadow ready to sue because of perceived prayer or anything like that.

[qeee1]

faith=belief without reason

In any other walk of life such beliefs are laughed at, but when you introduce the words faith/religion suddenly it's something admirable.

[Jolly Roger]

If I had my way, there would be no race-based scholarships

1) Should we also do away with these?

[jay_a2j]

I do not believe that making condoms available encourages sex,

Really? Here is a true story. When I was 11 years old my older brother threw a opened pack of Marlboro at me and asked, "Do you want these?" So, I'm like "Cool, let me go see if my friend wants to go smoke with me." 23 years later I'm still smoking. It was because my brother made them available to me that I decided to go smoke them. (Its called curiosity) So don't sit there like a blind fool and act as if handing out condom doesn't promote sex. What are they supposed to do with it? Make balloon animals?

When I went to Elementary school, we had a moment of silence at the beginning of the day. It wasn't anything, just a moment of silence. And you know what happened? The school got rid of it so teachers could teach,

"Got rid of it so the school teachers could teach" eh? Its a MOMENT! Not like an hour of prayer! Just a MOMENT! I'm glad they got rid of it so the teachers could have that X-TRA time to straighten her desk up.

[Mirak]

I do not believe that making condoms available encourages sex,

Really? Here is a true story. When I was 11 years old my older brother threw a opened pack of Marlboro at me and asked, "Do you want these?" So, I'm like "Cool, let me go see if my friend wants to go smoke with me." 23 years later I'm still smoking. It was because my brother made them available to me that I decided to go smoke them. (Its called curiosity) So don't sit there like a blind fool and act as if handing out condom doesn't promote sex. What are they supposed to do with it? Make balloon animals?

Good job your older brother didn't throw an open pack of condoms at you...23 years later you would be very tiered....

[vtmarik]

Really? Here is a true story. When I was 11 years old my older brother threw a opened pack of Marlboro at me and asked, "Do you want these?" So, I'm like "Cool, let me go see if my friend wants to go smoke with me." 23 years later I'm still smoking. It was because my brother made them available to me that I decided to go smoke them. (Its called curiosity) So don't sit there like a blind fool and act as if handing out condom doesn't promote sex. What are they supposed to do with it? Make balloon animals?

Your brother gave you cigarettes and asked you "Do you want these?"

You could have easily said "No."

Don't assume that everyone has the same problems with self-control that you did as a kid.

[Backglass]

Good job your older brother didn't throw an open pack of condoms at you...23 years later you would be very tiered....

Bwwwwaaaaaahahahaha. Now THATS funny! Thanks Mirak.

Really?

Really Really.

When I was 11 years old my older brother threw a opened pack of Marlboro at me and asked, "Do you want these?" So, I'm like "Cool, let me go see if my friend wants to go smoke with me." 23 years later I'm still smoking. It was because my brother made them available to me that I decided to go smoke them. (Its called curiosity)

I contend you would have become a smoker anyway, regardless. You obviously have a pre-disposition to being duped into silly habits by your peers. <badda boom!>

BTW, that smoking is awful for you. Perhaps there is a TV preacher who can cure you of your dependence. Ya just gotta believe! Heal! <he's on a roll!!!!>

Why havent you prayed to be clean of nicotine? Doesnt prayer work miracles? Perhaps, you just arent praying hard enough! Just to make sure, another $50 on Sunday might help.

What are they supposed to do with it? Make balloon animals?

Well, I suppose they could. But they could also just go ahead and roll the dice and have sex anyway without them. I hope they dont, but I know how MY hormones were in high school. I used to snatch them from Dad's dresser drawer. Now that I think back, they were always right there on top...easy to find. I will have to ask him about that. Thanks Dad!

Bottom line: Whether your kids have pre-marital sex or not comes down to how you raise them, and TALK to them about it prior. Not whether somebody hands them a condom at school. Besides, ANY high school kid in america can walk into CVS and buy as many as they want, so the handout thing is kinda silly anyway.

My True Story: My sister has two gorgeous daughters. When they first started dating, she told them "If you ever decide you need to go on the pill, come to me, and we will go get them...no questions asked". Now this was AFTER they had had all the sex talks a few years before. They both waited until they were about seniors in high school, steady boyfriends, etc. Both came to their mom, asked, and they did it. NOW. What would have happened if my sister had not been so open minded with her girls? They would have had sex anyway, maybe with a condom, maybe not. Maybe got pregnant, maybe not. Regardless, both are awesome young ladies with incredible careers and marriages now.

[vtmarik]

Well, I suppose they could. But they could also just go ahead and roll the dice and have sex anyway without them. I hope they dont, but I know how MY hormones were in high school. I used to snatch them from Dad's dresser drawer. Now that I think back, they were always right there on top...easy to find. I will have to ask him about that. Thanks Dad!

Bottom line: Whether your kids have pre-marital sex or not comes down to how you raise them, and TALK to them about it prior. Not whether somebody hands them a condom at school. Besides, ANY high school kid in america can walk into CVS and buy as many as they want, so the handout thing is kinda silly anyway.

My True Story: My sister has two gorgeous daughters. When they first started dating, she told them "If you ever decide you need to go on the pill, come to me, and we will go get them...no questions asked". Now this was AFTER they had had all the sex talks a few years before. They both waited until they were about seniors in high school, steady boyfriends, etc. Both came to their mom, asked, and they did it. NOW. What would have happened if my sister had not been so open minded with her girls? They would have had sex anyway, maybe with a condom, maybe not. Maybe got pregnant, maybe not. Regardless, both are awesome young ladies with incredible careers and marriages now.

I believe the phrase would be PWNED!

good work backglass.

[jay_a2j]

Good job your older brother didn't throw an open pack of condoms at you...23 years later you would be very tiered....

Bwwwwaaaaaahahahaha. Now THATS funny! Thanks Mirak.

Really?

Really Really.

When I was 11 years old my older brother threw a opened pack of Marlboro at me and asked, "Do you want these?" So, I'm like "Cool, let me go see if my friend wants to go smoke with me." 23 years later I'm still smoking. It was because my brother made them available to me that I decided to go smoke them. (Its called curiosity)

I contend you would have become a smoker anyway, regardless. You obviously have a pre-disposition to being duped into silly habits by your peers. <badda boom!>

BTW, that smoking is awful for you. Perhaps there is a TV preacher who can cure you of your dependence. Ya just gotta believe! Heal! <he's on a roll!!!!>

Why havent you prayed to be clean of nicotine? Doesnt prayer work miracles? Perhaps, you just arent praying hard enough! Just to make sure, another $50 on Sunday might help.

What are they supposed to do with it? Make balloon animals?

Well, I suppose they could. But they could also just go ahead and roll the dice and have sex anyway without them. I hope they dont, but I know how MY hormones were in high school. I used to snatch them from Dad's dresser drawer. Now that I think back, they were always right there on top...easy to find. I will have to ask him about that. Thanks Dad!

Bottom line: Whether your kids have pre-marital sex or not comes down to how you raise them, and TALK to them about it prior. Not whether somebody hands them a condom at school. Besides, ANY high school kid in america can walk into CVS and buy as many as they want, so the handout thing is kinda silly anyway.

My True Story: My sister has two gorgeous daughters. When they first started dating, she told them "If you ever decide you need to go on the pill, come to me, and we will go get them...no questions asked". Now this was AFTER they had had all the sex talks a few years before. They both waited until they were about seniors in high school, steady boyfriends, etc. Both came to their mom, asked, and they did it. NOW. What would have happened if my sister had not been so open minded with her girls? They would have had sex anyway, maybe with a condom, maybe not. Maybe got pregnant, maybe not. Regardless, both are awesome young ladies with incredible careers and marriages now.

You really need to deal with your misguided notions on how faith works. You don't "give 50 bucks" to be cured of smoking. I have stopped smoking for a time and then had what is called a "relapse". But the first thing you need to have when quitting smoking is the desire to quit. And that is true for any addiction.

They would have had sex anyway,

You don't KNOW that! If there was an effort to teach kids to ABSTAIN. More would. But society doesn't even try to teach that anymore! Because if they did Planned Parenthood would lose alot of money! So they hand out condoms, saying "If you're going to do it at least be safe." Why not give your kids cavlar vests too? With the warning "If you use a gun at least be safe." This is non-sense. You don't tell someone shooting someone is wrong then hand them a .28 special.

[vtmarik]

You really need to deal with your misguided notions on how faith works. You don't "give 50 bucks" to be cured of smoking. I have stopped smoking for a time and then had what is called a "relapse". But the first thing you need to have when quitting smoking is the desire to quit. And that is true for any addiction.

Three Days. That's how long it takes for your body to get nicotine out of the system. If you can get past those three days, any relapse is simply habitually-based. You can't blame the nicotine at that point because it isn't in your system anymore.

I once did an experiment, truth be told, I smoked for a week. About three cigarettes a day, I was coughing and I was just fine.

Day 1 after stopping, you wouldn't want to have been around me. I was completely anti-social. Day 2, I was slowly coming out of it. Day 3, I was pretty much out of it. I did keep thinking "One more cigarette" but I ignored it and simply went off and watched TV. Another day went by and I wasn't thinking about cigarettes at all.

If you want to quit smoking, just stop. Find a hobby, take up carpentry, play DDR, whatever. Do something that you can use to channel your habitualism over smoking. Hell, invest in tootsie pops and do the Kojak thing.

You don't KNOW that! If there was an effort to teach kids to ABSTAIN. More would. But society doesn't even try to teach that anymore! Because if they did Planned Parenthood would lose alot of money! So they hand out condoms, saying "If you're going to do it at least be safe." Why not give your kids cavlar vests too? With the warning "If you use a gun at least be safe." This is non-sense. You don't tell someone shooting someone is wrong then hand them a .28 special.

The best analogy to the one your trying to draw is distributing guns, not kevlar vests. I'd take one of those, they're like 200 dollars!

Yes we do, because we were kids once. I was thinking about girls and sex almost constantly. Telling kids "Ignore your impulses, don't have sex, just hug and hold hands" is about as effective as telling a rabid dog to sit and lie down.

And your right, you don't tell someone shooting is wrong and then give them a gun. However, school teaches that sex is a biological motivator to reproduce and continue the species. It doesn't teach that it's good or bad, so actually try and think about these counter arguments before you make them else you look like a dummy.

[Jolly Roger]

As another reluctant smoker, I can tell you it's not so simple as that, vtmarik. You don't seem to gather the real strength of addiction (and I hope you never do). Even if you've quit, addiction is a lifelong problem - people who quit ten years ago are still getting cravings.

[OnlyAmbrose]

Yes we do, because we were kids once. I was thinking about girls and sex almost constantly. Telling kids "Ignore your impulses, don't have sex, just hug and hold hands" is about as effective as telling a rabid dog to sit and lie down.

Hmmm well let's see. I'm a kid NOW. And I am quite aware of my own impulses- I think about girls and sex all the time too, it's a fact of being a teenager. But I HAVE been taught to abstain from sex, and I have been quite able to keep the contact I have with girls I've dated to the point of holding hands and hugging. That's not to say I'm not tempted to go further (who isn't at my age?), but the environment I've grown up in has taught me that these temptations are not to be followed. If it can happen with me, it can happen with anyone else, it all boils down to the environment you are raised in, and without a secure family/religious environment, kids are going to get nasty messages from the media/general society which pretty much state that premarital sex is ok. SCHOOLS handing out condoms would send on of the biggest messages of all.

Now vt, do you think premarital sex, as a whole, is a bad thing (even if protected)? Just so I can formulate arguments a bit better, I need to know what we're arguing about

[Jolly Roger]

That is such a cool Zepplin tune