Portland [Quenched]

[lostatlimbo]

Glad to see this map back - athough sad to see the Bike Lanes lose their killer neutral feature.

:)

I was waffling on the killer neutral aspect, but upon further reflection, I think you're right. It makes NE a little harder to hold, but maybe that's a good thing.

[lostatlimbo]

=D> =D> Sully likey! Very nice! The style is fresh, the gameplay is fresh, the mapmaker is fresh - it's like this map was just hand-picked from the cartography orchard! Bravo, mate, bravo.

-Sully

Thanks!

I'll clarify some things and make another update soon.

[RedBaron0]

Welcome back kiddo!

Some thoughts on your recent update:

The ""Don't Cross:" section of the legend. I think you can replace that with just "Impassible:" And adding a small icon of what each represents from the map might be better than the words. Without labels we won't know what Ladd's Circle or The Bluffs is exactly.

Are the USS Blueback and the Shoetown icons still necessary?

Question, the bus icons are territories too, yes? I'm guessing the buses allow connections between bonuses over the MAX lines, then? This might just need a bit of explanation in the legend.

[iancanton]

since the map has changed, we also need a few adjustments to the bonuses and starting neutrals. at the moment, the map doesn't necessarily meet gameplay stamp requirements.

NE isn't that hard to hold. i'd say between classic europe and classic asia, therefore +6 instead of +8: there simply aren't many bonuses which can attack it.

it's also appropriate to reduce the MAX bonuses, to +5 for red, +3 for yellow and +3 (or the existing +4) for blue, now that the transit center negative has gone.

the transit center must start neutral (n2 or n3) and i strongly recommend that one of the SW regions (n2) does too, to prevent someone from starting with these bonuses.

to keep the microbreweries and rose gardens relevant (scattered bonuses are unpopular unless the reward is high enough), u can up their bonuses to +5 if u also make washington park (n2) and st johns (n2) start neutral: someone starting with +4 or +5 throws these games totally off-balance.

assuming that the bike lanes are normal regions, all this means that we keep the original 42 starting regions.

redraw SW so it's clear whether southwest hills connects with PSU. if it doesn't, then change the blue line slightly to make it blatantly obvious.

ian.

[lostatlimbo]

I've been busy with work and class lately, but hope to have another update before 2011

[KoolBak]

Hey....just saw this - I am a native Oregonian and reside in west linn...have several oregonian friends here and we'd all dig this ;o) Well done!

[Frito Bandito]

Hey....just saw this - I am a native Oregonian and reside in west linn...have several oregonian friends here and we'd all dig this ;o) Well done!

KoolBak, I'm sure you'll second my motion for a Sam Adams Pinata

[KoolBak]

lol

[thenobodies80]

Any news? there're some things on which you can work to improve the map.... what happened?

Welcome back kiddo!

Some thoughts on your recent update:

The ""Don't Cross:" section of the legend. I think you can replace that with just "Impassible:" And adding a small icon of what each represents from the map might be better than the words. Without labels we won't know what Ladd's Circle or The Bluffs is exactly.

Are the USS Blueback and the Shoetown icons still necessary?

Question, the bus icons are territories too, yes? I'm guessing the buses allow connections between bonuses over the MAX lines, then? This might just need a bit of explanation in the legend.

since the map has changed, we also need a few adjustments to the bonuses and starting neutrals. at the moment, the map doesn't necessarily meet gameplay stamp requirements.

NE isn't that hard to hold. i'd say between classic europe and classic asia, therefore +6 instead of +8: there simply aren't many bonuses which can attack it.

it's also appropriate to reduce the MAX bonuses, to +5 for red, +3 for yellow and +3 (or the existing +4) for blue, now that the transit center negative has gone.

the transit center must start neutral (n2 or n3) and i strongly recommend that one of the SW regions (n2) does too, to prevent someone from starting with these bonuses.

to keep the microbreweries and rose gardens relevant (scattered bonuses are unpopular unless the reward is high enough), u can up their bonuses to +5 if u also make washington park (n2) and st johns (n2) start neutral: someone starting with +4 or +5 throws these games totally off-balance.

assuming that the bike lanes are normal regions, all this means that we keep the original 42 starting regions.

redraw SW so it's clear whether southwest hills connects with PSU. if it doesn't, then change the blue line slightly to make it blatantly obvious.

ian.

[lostatlimbo]

Just been busy. Will try to work on this tonight.

[lostatlimbo]

I have two questions about this:

Since Bike Lanes will be killer neutrals, if I still make the other 4 neutral suggestions (leaving 38 starting territories) - how bad is that? I know 42 is ideal, but is 38 terrible?

You mention starting Washington Park & St Johns as neutral to prevent a Rose/Beer bonus on the drop, but both of those territories are Rose bonus only. Did you mean to make one of them a Beer bonus? (like University?)

since the map has changed, we also need a few adjustments to the bonuses and starting neutrals. at the moment, the map doesn't necessarily meet gameplay stamp requirements.

NE isn't that hard to hold. i'd say between classic europe and classic asia, therefore +6 instead of +8: there simply aren't many bonuses which can attack it.

it's also appropriate to reduce the MAX bonuses, to +5 for red, +3 for yellow and +3 (or the existing +4) for blue, now that the transit center negative has gone.

the transit center must start neutral (n2 or n3) and i strongly recommend that one of the SW regions (n2) does too, to prevent someone from starting with these bonuses.

to keep the microbreweries and rose gardens relevant (scattered bonuses are unpopular unless the reward is high enough), u can up their bonuses to +5 if u also make washington park (n2) and st johns (n2) start neutral: someone starting with +4 or +5 throws these games totally off-balance.

assuming that the bike lanes are normal regions, all this means that we keep the original 42 starting regions.

redraw SW so it's clear whether southwest hills connects with PSU. if it doesn't, then change the blue line slightly to make it blatantly obvious.

ian. :)

[lostatlimbo]

I only made some of the suggested gameplay changes because I brought back some of the original elements that were lost in that last draft:

Fareless Zone (central MAX stop) starts 3 neutral. Beaverton, Washington Park, & University all start 2 neutral.
Bike Routes start 3 neutral and reset to 3 neutral if held one round.
Fareless Zone subtracts 1 troop (from total) at the start of each round it is held.

There are a few things I am uncertain about, but lets see where we stand with this draft and go from there.

I'm also not married to the current bonus structure for the Rose Gardens & Microbrews and am open to other suggestions.

Thanks
Brett

24th Draft
Legend & gameplay edits

Click image to enlarge.

Just the biggie for now. Will post the small when this one is OK'd.

[lostatlimbo]

Welcome back kiddo!

Are the USS Blueback and the Shoetown icons still necessary?

No, but they are iconic pieces of Portland and I think they visually represent the neighborhoods they reside in (likewise for the jet at the airport). I might be willing to drop the Nike icon, but the sub stays.

Also, I'm 30 years old.

[isaiah40]

It's been a while since I last saw this. And I must say it has improved greatly!

Just a couple of things I would like to mention:
1) Yes you can drop the Nike shoe
2) I think that with this map we can drop the troop circles - though can we see a version with the numbers on it without the circles?
3) The Portland Sign, it may be me, but it looks like it kinda goes down at a slight angle to the right as you read down it.
4) Also your "Grab a brew..." line is at an angle going up from left to right.
5) At the bottom from the sub down along the right bank of the river it looks as if the color doesn't go all the way over to the right bank, and under that bottom bridge the same thing. Was this done on purpose?

Well that's it for now. Looking forward to your next update!!

[iancanton]

Since Bike Lanes will be killer neutrals, if I still make the other 4 neutral suggestions (leaving 38 starting territories) - how bad is that? I know 42 is ideal, but is 38 terrible?

You mention starting Washington Park & St Johns as neutral to prevent a Rose/Beer bonus on the drop, but both of those territories are Rose bonus only. Did you mean to make one of them a Beer bonus? (like University?)

i did mean to make university, not st johns, neutral. u spotted the error!

38 is indeed a lot worse than 39 because each player starts with exactly 12 regions in 1v1. if u insert one more blue max station in the bottom left, for example, then the number of starting regions becomes 39. if u don't want to do this, then we can use 3 start positions in SW instead of setting beaverton to neutral. in both cases, each player starts with 13 regions in 1v1 games.

make each bike lane region an n1 rather than an n3, otherwise the bike lanes will hardly ever be used.

ian.

[RedBaron0]

Much of the recent discussions are about gameplay issues stemming from recent updates. There seems to be balance issues. After discussions with Industrial Helix and myself, we feel a stint back in the Gameplay workshop to sort out these issues is needed. This is just to focus discussions on what is required of a CC map. Get everything sorted out in gameplay, come back and focus on graphics again.

[moved]

[iancanton]

Since Bike Lanes will be killer neutrals, if I still make the other 4 neutral suggestions (leaving 38 starting territories) - how bad is that? I know 42 is ideal, but is 38 terrible?

You mention starting Washington Park & St Johns as neutral to prevent a Rose/Beer bonus on the drop, but both of those territories are Rose bonus only. Did you mean to make one of them a Beer bonus? (like University?)

i did mean to make university, not st johns, neutral. u spotted the error!

38 is indeed a lot worse than 39 because each player starts with exactly 12 regions in 1v1. if u insert one more blue max station in the bottom left, for example, then the number of starting regions becomes 39. if u don't want to do this, then we can use 3 start positions in SW instead of setting beaverton to neutral. in both cases, each player starts with 13 regions in 1v1 games.

make each bike lane region an n1 rather than an n3, otherwise the bike lanes will hardly ever be used.

ian.

rather than setting university to neutral and using 3 start positions in SW (which gives the unwanted consequence that SW is the only bonus that starts without neutrals), better might be beaverton neutral and 4 start positions for the 4 beers. this gives 39 starting regions (42 less neutral transit center, beaverton and washington park), with the 4 start positions being university, nob hill, laurelhurst and alberta arts; each player starts with 14 regions in 1v1 games.

ian.

[Teflon Kris]

make each bike lane region an n1 rather than an n3, otherwise the bike lanes will hardly ever be used.

Seconded, preferably n1, n2 at worst

[danfrank]

this is going on almost 2 and a half years for this map.. The foundry members of CC should be ashamed of themselves.

[natty dread]

this is going on almost 2 and a half years for this map.. The foundry members of CC should be ashamed of themselves.

Oh, and I suppose the mapmaker has nothing at all to do with it?

[lostatlimbo]

rather than setting university to neutral and using 3 start positions in SW (which gives the unwanted consequence that SW is the only bonus that starts without neutrals), better might be beaverton neutral and 4 start positions for the 4 beers. this gives 39 starting regions (42 less neutral transit center, beaverton and washington park), with the 4 start positions being university, nob hill, laurelhurst and alberta arts; each player starts with 14 regions in 1v1 games.

ian. :)

Works for me!

[lostatlimbo]

Okay, I'll drop the Nike shoe.

I removed the troop circles for now. I do think I like it better this way. I don't have time to add the troop numbers right now. Maybe next update.

The crooked sign and slogan were intentional, but I straightened these up a little.

The contours on the river are also intentional. I've toned down most of the '3D' elements of the map, but want to keep that part. I don't like it flat.

It's been a while since I last saw this. And I must say it has improved greatly!

Just a couple of things I would like to mention:
1) Yes you can drop the Nike shoe
2) I think that with this map we can drop the troop circles - though can we see a version with the numbers on it without the circles?
3) The Portland Sign, it may be me, but it looks like it kinda goes down at a slight angle to the right as you read down it.
4) Also your "Grab a brew..." line is at an angle going up from left to right.
5) At the bottom from the sub down along the right bank of the river it looks as if the color doesn't go all the way over to the right bank, and under that bottom bridge the same thing. Was this done on purpose?

Well that's it for now. Looking forward to your next update!!

[lostatlimbo]

25th Draft
Mostly just gameplay updates, as suggested by ian and others

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

Looking really nice! Let's hope we get this back to graphics soon.

[flexmaster33]

Looking good and can't wait to get playing on it...

I think early versions had reference to the Rose Garden arena...any logos for the Blazers and/or Timbers (Rose Garden/PGE Park)? Not a biggee, but two more landmarks in town.