Rolegift Mafia 2 Endgame: Give 'til it Hurts

[Campin_Killer]

To be honest, vodean is acting scummy, but it's not like anyone can claim at this point.

Okay, please explain why someone not being able to claim means we shouldn't lynch today. The point, as far as I can tell, of needing a claim before you lynch someone is basically to help prevent accidentally lynching major town power roles. In this game the roles that people gift may not necessarily match up with alignment. At the very least it probably won't be straightforward. Nobody should have to fake-claim in this game. So, since it seems that the major needs for claims before the lynch are not going to function as normal in this game, why do we need to see a claim?

Vell, although vodean is acting scummy, he could be a powerful role gifter for the town. It's a 50/50 shot, but as they say, better safe than sorry

[Yomiel]

Are we decided on who we're voting for yet?

[spiesr]

Are we decided on who we're voting for yet?

Not quite it seems. Would you like to help us decide, or do you just want to sit and wait?

[thechuck51]

Are we decided on who we're voting for yet?

seems like a no-lynch is where were headed...

[Campin_Killer]

Are we decided on who we're voting for yet?

Mind contributing? You've had two posts, one about some unrelated bullshit, and this one.

[Yomiel]

As much as I'd like to, my normal computer is STILL running CHKDSK. It's finally at 5%, so that's some progress. But at this rate, it might still be ages before my computer is up for use.@_@ My notes are on that, and I'm all out of sorts without that computer. I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help today.

Never been a big fan of not lynching anyone. Lynches provide us with information. Even if we fail to kill one of the Mafia, we can something learn more based on the identity of the victim and their interactions with other players.

[/]

Vote Count:

No Lynch (1) - Campin_Killer
Campin_Killer (2) - everywhere116 , aage
spiesr (3) - Yomiel , jak111 , vodean
safariguy5 (2) - soundman , Hensow
everywhere116 (1) - Rodion
aage (1) - spiesr
Yomiel (1) - LSU Tiger Josh
vodean (3) - thechuck51 , pmchugh , jonty125

With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch, deadline this sunday

[everywhere116]

Is there any benefit to a no lynch that isn't present in normal games?

The only possible one would that right now there is an increased risk of accidentally lynching something important like the cop gifter. Of course, since said important gifters could also be scum, something.

I take it by your town you don't really like this idea.

As for everyone discussing the circle-gifting or what have you to determine everyone's gifts, I don't like it. One of the beautiful things about this game is that you can claim important night actions, such as a cop, and not fear retaliation, because you don't hold the cop power. If we expose all of our gifts, the scum can easily pick off the strong ones. Plus, you really don't need to know what your gift is. The large majority of our gifts will be positive utility roles, just give them to whoever you think could use the role that best.

[aage]

As much as I'd like to, my normal computer is STILL running CHKDSK. It's finally at 5%, so that's some progress. But at this rate, it might still be ages before my computer is up for use.@_@ My notes are on that, and I'm all out of sorts without that computer. I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help today.

Never been a big fan of not lynching anyone. Lynches provide us with information. Even if we fail to kill one of the Mafia, we can something learn more based on the identity of the victim and their interactions with other players.

Yeah... making this post clearly takes less effort than saying who you suspect.


I however am a great fan of not lynching anyone in this game. The main reason is that we have no clue what we're hitting at and everyone at this point plays as if they are a VT (or at least they should). Nobody can claim to be a VT, though, because we haven't gotten any roles. All we can do is let night resolve so everyone has a bit of leverage and we don't accidentally lynch the cop-, doc-, tracker-, watcher-, blocker-, doublevoter- or whatsnot-rolegifter.

Vodean's and Jak's theory rely on people being idiots. Despite Vodean being on the top of my scum list, he's pretty much NES. I would really like to believe my fellow players are not idiots, though, so I will not vote him for this.

As promised, it's Friday. Vote No Lynch

Also,

vhatever

fixed

[Yomiel]

Did you even read my post? I pretty clearly said that I have not really been following what's going on, so I don't suspect anyone. I'm just going along with everyone else today.

[aage]

Did you even read my post? I pretty clearly said that I have not really been following what's going on, so I don't suspect anyone. I'm just going along with everyone else today.

You read the thread. You asked whether we decided to lynch anyone yet, and said you were not a big fan of not lynching anyone. That means you read that this was proposed. That means you read the thread. If I were you, I would stop the uncaring attitude, before you have to go along with a lynch on yourself.

[vodean]

jak, im not trying to throw any suspicion on you. you made a scummy post. but you are still lower on my scum list than i am. i dont think that a case against you would hold any water.

Spiesr, on the other hand seems to be trying to lead town towards a lynch that would almost certainly be a mislynch, and would yield little information as a result of not knowing what gift we have lost (or thats how i understand deaths). spiesr seems essentially to want townies to die. so my vote stays.

[jonty125]

I pretty clearly said that I have not really been following what's going on,

I understand your CPU issues but couldn't you use an internet cafe, or library or your DS?

I still see vodean as #1 for scum, so my vote remains.

[pmchugh]

Is there any benefit to a no lynch that isn't present in normal games?

The only possible one would that right now there is an increased risk of accidentally lynching something important like the cop gifter. Of course, since said important gifters could also be scum, something.

I take it by your town you don't really like this idea.

As for everyone discussing the circle-gifting or what have you to determine everyone's gifts, I don't like it. One of the beautiful things about this game is that you can claim important night actions, such as a cop, and not fear retaliation, because you don't hold the cop power. If we expose all of our gifts, the scum can easily pick off the strong ones. Plus, you really don't need to know what your gift is. The large majority of our gifts will be positive utility roles, just give them to whoever you think could use the role that best.

So you are saying its a good thing that everyone can fake claim? Doesn't that help mafia more than town?

[spiesr]

My notes are on that, and I'm all out of sorts without that computer. I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help today.

It's Day 1, how many notes can you have?

I however am a great fan of not lynching anyone in this game. The main reason is that we have no clue what we're hitting at and everyone at this point plays as if they are a VT (or at least they should). Nobody can claim to be a VT, though, because we haven't gotten any roles. All we can do is let night resolve so everyone has a bit of leverage and we don't accidentally lynch the cop-, doc-, tracker-, watcher-, blocker-, doublevoter- or whatsnot-rolegifter.

But, every lynch will be against one of those rolegifters. Sure, not every gift is equally useful, but any of them could be scum. (I think)

Spiesr, on the other hand seems to be trying to lead town towards a lynch that would almost certainly be a mislynch, and would yield little information as a result of not knowing what gift we have lost (or thats how i understand deaths). spiesr seems essentially to want townies to die. so my vote stays.

At least last time around a person's gift was revealed upon their death.

As for everyone discussing the circle-gifting or what have you to determine everyone's gifts, I don't like it. One of the beautiful things about this game is that you can claim important night actions, such as a cop, and not fear retaliation, because you don't hold the cop power. If we expose all of our gifts, the scum can easily pick off the strong ones. Plus, you really don't need to know what your gift is. The large majority of our gifts will be positive utility roles, just give them to whoever you think could use the role that best.

So you are saying its a good thing that everyone can fake claim? Doesn't that help mafia more than town?

No, he is saying that if you receive say a cop gift, you can claim what your result was the following day without the usual worry of exposing the cop. (Since you aren't the cop, you just had his power for one night.) The mafia can't kill you in order to get rid of the cop, if they want that power gone they have to hit the person who gifts it instead.
Also, the way I see it, the mechanics of this game make it harder to fake-claim. Say for example that you claim to have used an item which doesn't actually exist. On the surface this might seem safe enough, since you won't be expected to consistently have that power. However, as long as the town is diligent about claiming everything they get, it will eventually become apparent that said item didn't exist. And then you get lynched for lying.

Anyhow, since I am mostly in favor of a lynch I will put my money where my mouth is and try to make a case today.

[everywhere116]

Is there any benefit to a no lynch that isn't present in normal games?

The only possible one would that right now there is an increased risk of accidentally lynching something important like the cop gifter. Of course, since said important gifters could also be scum, something.

I take it by your town you don't really like this idea.

As for everyone discussing the circle-gifting or what have you to determine everyone's gifts, I don't like it. One of the beautiful things about this game is that you can claim important night actions, such as a cop, and not fear retaliation, because you don't hold the cop power. If we expose all of our gifts, the scum can easily pick off the strong ones. Plus, you really don't need to know what your gift is. The large majority of our gifts will be positive utility roles, just give them to whoever you think could use the role that best.

So you are saying its a good thing that everyone can fake claim? Doesn't that help mafia more than town?

You misunderstand. That isn't about fakeclaims, it's about the scum killing power roles. If you reveal that you performed the cop action, it is pointless for the scum to attack you because the cop will be someone else the next day, and you aren't the source of the cop power.

[pmchugh]

OK I see what you mean now, and I think I agree. All the information can be outed immediately as we do not know where it came from. I think we should go ahead with random action assignments.

[Yomiel]

Following along on anything other than my main computer is hard for me. And I generally have a lot of notes for games I take part in.

I'm all for voting Aage. Why is he encouraging me to choose someone to vote for when I have clearly said I have a very vague understanding of what is going on today?

[aage]

Following along on anything other than my main computer is hard for me. And I generally have a lot of notes for games I take part in.

I'm all for voting Aage. Why is he encouraging me to choose someone to vote for when I have clearly said I have a very vague understanding of what is going on today?

Being able to post means being able to read. I'd like to see that vote. If you want me dead for encouraging you I suggest you take action. At least my attempt will have been successful.

[Rodion]

After considering both options, I think the non-circular gifting technique with the following day claiming is the best path to go.

Unvote.

As far as lynching or no lynching, it really depends on how accurate we trust our scum reads to be. I say milk the day and if we are not comfortable by sunday we can vote no lynch then.

Vodean, how about you quote the "1 post from Jak you considered scummy"? He's been asking and you've been dodging thus far.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Vodean, how about you quote the "1 post from Jak you considered scummy"? He's been asking and you've been dodging thus far.

Eh, this'll do for a while. His accusation of jak without any sort of reasoning and his Victor-like defense of "well I just always act scummy" I think promises for reasonable D1 lynch candidate.

vote vodean.

-Tails

[Yomiel]

Reading in these circumstances will not help.

[spiesr]

Following along on anything other than my main computer is hard for me. And I generally have a lot of notes for games I take part in.

I'm all for voting Aage. Why is he encouraging me to choose someone to vote for when I have clearly said I have a very vague understanding of what is going on today?

Why is he encouraging you to do something? Because saying that you can't do anything is unacceptable. You seem to be able to keep up with reading the thread and posting. With the entire thread only 12 pages long and it being Day 1 that amount of notes that you could have taken (and now apparently are completely useless without) can't be very much at all. I don't see why you can't contribute normally. However, if you are in a situation where you can't play properly for the foreseeable future, then that would mean you need to be replaced.

[/]

Vote Count:

No Lynch (2) - Campin_Killer , aage
Campin_Killer (1) - everywhere116
spiesr (3) - Yomiel , jak111 , vodean
safariguy5 (2) - soundman , Hensow
aage (1) - spiesr
Yomiel (1) - LSU Tiger Josh
vodean (4) - TA1LGUNN3R , thechuck51 , pmchugh , jonty125

With 19 alive it takes 10 to lynch
By the by, if you haven't sent your gift yet, it is a day action, alright?

[spiesr]

Alright, lets get to work on that case.
First off, FOS Hensow for falling under my radar. (Intentionally or otherwise.) Only two post so far, one of which was a joke-vote. We are going to need you to be more active than that.

And now after rereading everything I come back with disappointment. I all found was Vodean being Vodean (that is "scummy all the time") and a bad vibe from pmchugh which isn't substantial enough to make a case out of. Not sure how to proceed now. I will have to give it some thought I guess.