Vatican Increases Number Of Mortal Sins

got tonkaed · Post by **got tonkaed** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:47 pm

Frigidus wrote:
Napoleon Ier wrote:
0ojakeo0 wrote:wait whats the difference between venial and mortal again?
Very broadly: venial sin is stuff ranging from what you shouldn't do but no-one really cares if you do to stuff that you really shouldn't do but it's not so bad you're damned to eternal damnation). You don't have to confess it.

Mortal sin: Bad, evil, action, and which you weren't co-erced into doing, and you knew full well what you were doing (i.e adultery, murder, drugs fairly astonshingly has been added, not that I'd take some random Bishop's word for it until they make a proper Ex Cathedra declaration which they won't). If you don't confess/feel sorry it for you go to Hell. That is the only circumstance under which God won't forgive you: When you "Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit", or refuse him access your Soul so Jesus' blood can metaphorically "hose it down". You have hence basically said to God you don't want to go to Heaven, and won't.
Ooooooh, now I get it. I always wondered why athiesm is such a one-way ticket to hell. Minor/Not Too Major immoralities are awwwwwwwright, but different beliefs systems are a no-no.

it makes a neat bit of sense really...God can only be loving and grant free will if theres some necessity that you allow Jesus to do the work so to speak. Therefore the greatest no-no you can commit is to actively deny the oppertunity for God to grant one the salvation. Hence other religions/atheism are often pretty big fouls.

Harijan · Post by **Harijan** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:48 pm

Napoleon Ier wrote: Actual Content: How many cases of Priest Paedophilia have there been recorded worldwide btw?

This first source admits that the actual number cannot be known because the catholic church has treated all sexual transgressions by its clergy to be held in the highest degree of secrecy since the early 1900's. The website also documents official research by the catholic church concerning pedophilia going back to the 4th century. Lastly, the website highlights 10-12 cases in which American catholic priests were found guilty. I anticipate that you will dismiss this source because it comes from a website that is obviously anti-catholic.

Normally I would give credit to such a critique, but I found that this timeline was particularly convincing and presented factually (although there are probably many intentionally excluded relevant facts) I will leave such discrepancies for you to find.

http://www.crusadeagainstclergyabuse.co ... istory.htm

This is a much more objective and academic estimate as to the number and patterns of clergy sex abuse. Have fun with it.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/pv666385476j9037/

Enjoy.

got tonkaed · Post by **got tonkaed** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:51 pm

while i wasnt really planning on perusing that much of the article i found this little bit rather early on kinda telling....

Catholic leaders investigating the problem of sexual abuse by clergy
have admitted that 95% of the allegations are true (Stahel, 1993)

Yikes.

Napoleon Ier · Post by **Napoleon Ier** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:02 pm

Frigidus wrote:
Napoleon Ier wrote:
0ojakeo0 wrote:wait whats the difference between venial and mortal again?
Very broadly: venial sin is stuff ranging from what you shouldn't do but no-one really cares if you do to stuff that you really shouldn't do but it's not so bad you're damned to eternal damnation). You don't have to confess it.

Mortal sin: Bad, evil, action, and which you weren't co-erced into doing, and you knew full well what you were doing (i.e adultery, murder, drugs fairly astonshingly has been added, not that I'd take some random Bishop's word for it until they make a proper Ex Cathedra declaration which they won't). If you don't confess/feel sorry it for you go to Hell. That is the only circumstance under which God won't forgive you: When you "Blaspheme against the Holy Spirit", or refuse him access your Soul so Jesus' blood can metaphorically "hose it down". You have hence basically said to God you don't want to go to Heaven, and won't.
Ooooooh, now I get it. I always wondered why athiesm is such a one-way ticket to hell. Minor/Not Too Major immoralities are awwwwwwwright, but different beliefs systems are a no-no.

You've just picked uon a major difference between hardline protestants and feeble-minded (as they'd describe us) Catholics: we don't believe non-Christians necessarily go to hell.

The idea being, when you commit mortal sin and feel guilty, you're basically saying sorry to your conscions, and hence by extension (without realising it) God.

Course you get poked and prodded (allegorically) in purgatorio, but you're basically ok so long as you're not Adolf Hitler's second coming.

Fruitcake · Post by **Fruitcake** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:18 pm

Just returned and saw some of the responses regarding double standards...

wicked wrote:Fruitcake, it's a discussion of the Catholic church, which inevitably leads to discussions of the major controversy surrounding it.

Yet when a discussion of the Islam faith turned to controversy surrounding it, the warnings were issued, and a thread locked. However, in this thread not only does the 'moderator' allow controversy, but actively encourages it with what I, as a believer, feel are inflammatory comments, an example being...and this was after I had already made my feelings known, and had an answer saying that this would be watched...from the very person who posted it...

Well DM, was he in the closet with you?

I may be wrong but where I hail from this is hypocrisy in its most venal form, double standards are left way behind.

If it is Muslim, then we are not allowed to be subjective, inflammatory, or controversial, but if it is Catholics, then it is fine to do all these things.

In life, double standards always, finally, lead to anarchy, for those who profess to set these standards have no right to be in control of the situation.

Please understand, I have no problem with people abusing whatever system they wish, just as they must also know I will respond in kind, and will say, as I did, if I think something is a disgrace. The issue for me, now, is purely the above.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:36 pm

fruitcake if you have a problem with my modding, we can discuss it in private or you can complain to twill. please keep this thread on topic. I'll explain this once here and that's it. The main difference in the threads is I saw the Muslim one much earlier than this one and the intent of the OP in that one was to provoke, and he even referred to the "grubby" Muslims. The OP in this one simply posted a link/story. I can't help that I didn't see this one until well after it had degraded. As soon as it was brought to my attention, I stepped in to stop it. I can't read every single post on these forums, so rely on the community to bring things like this to my attention.

The joke with DM was just that. With people like that you have to talk with them on their own level. All I did was reciprocate his joke to get through to him, which is the only way to get through to people trolling for attention.

got tonkaed · Post by **got tonkaed** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:38 pm

personally i thought fruitcake was making a fair comment. If the community is going to do some part in policing itself...because as you suggest its a bit unfair to the mods to assume they can possibly see all the content, it would serve everyone better if some of the complaint is posted where people can see it.

Napoleon often makes some criticism of the potential double standard, but i think hearing different voices voice the point probably doesnt hurt.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:42 pm

I'm not trying to bring the questioning of my modding into private, rather keep this thread on topic. Feel free to start a separate topic. I won't respond to anything else here unless it's on topic.

Fruitcake · Post by **Fruitcake** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:47 pm

wicked wrote:Feel free to start a separate topic.

Fair enough. If this is what you wish, as is your right.

Dancing Mustard · Post by **Dancing Mustard** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:50 pm

wicked wrote:The joke with DM was just that. With people like that you have to talk with them on their own level. All I did was reciprocate his joke to get through to him, which is the only way to get through to people trolling for attention.

That's odd, I thought I'd clicked on IK not FW.... normally poor attempts at humour that don't advance the conversation aren't permitted in IK waters....

...Oh hang on a second, I've just remembered I'm reading a 'Wicked Post', and as such things like 'forum rules' don't apply, and the concept of 'leading by example' hasn't been adopted yet (along with the notion of 'competent moderating' but that's beside the point...).

Now now Wicked, don't get all angsty with me again; that was all just a joke. Also I'm told that this is the only way to communicate with people like you; apparently I have to talk to you on your own usual level. After all, it is the only way to get through to hypocrisy-drunk egomaniacs who can't accept the fact that they've made yet another moderating gaff.

Actual Content to stay 'on topic': How does the Catholic Church decide what is a mortal sin?

Frigidus · Post by **Frigidus** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:54 pm

Dancing Mustard wrote:Actual Content to stay 'on topic': How does the Catholic Church decide what is a mortal sin?

Arbitrarily.

Napoleon Ier · Post by **Napoleon Ier** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:01 pm

Dancing Mustard wrote: Actual Content to stay 'on topic': How does the Catholic Church decide what is a mortal sin?

I dunno, how does English "common law" justify using obscure court rulings made 50+ years ago as the objective and absolute moral standard of justice of which the Law must be the embodiement?

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:05 pm

Napoleon Ier wrote:
Dancing Mustard wrote: Actual Content to stay 'on topic': How does the Catholic Church decide what is a mortal sin?
I dunno, how does English "common law" justify using obscure court rulings made 50+ years ago as the objective and absolute moral standard of justice of which the Law must be the embodiement?

50 years is yesterday compared to two millennia.

Napoleon Ier · Post by **Napoleon Ier** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:09 pm

Guiscard wrote:
Napoleon Ier wrote:
Dancing Mustard wrote: Actual Content to stay 'on topic': How does the Catholic Church decide what is a mortal sin?
I dunno, how does English "common law" justify using obscure court rulings made 50+ years ago as the objective and absolute moral standard of justice of which the Law must be the embodiement?
50 years is yesterday compared to two millennia.

This is true, but at least there is some context of attempting to tend toward the perfect, objective and absolute standard moral justice rather than taking some crummy judge's interpretation of shoddily written laws.

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:21 pm

Do I sense a double standard for the bible on the one hand and British law on the other?

Frigidus · Post by **Frigidus** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:24 pm

MeDeFe wrote:Do I sense a double standard for the bible on the one hand and British law on the other?

No, that's just heresy. You have to watch out for that.

Dancing Mustard · Post by **Dancing Mustard** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:38 pm

Napoleon Ier wrote:
Dancing Mustard wrote: Actual Content to stay 'on topic': How does the Catholic Church decide what is a mortal sin?
I dunno, how does English "common law" justify using obscure court rulings made 50+ years ago as the objective and absolute moral standard of justice of which the Law must be the embodiement?

Answer: They don't

Skittles! · Post by **Skittles!** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:51 pm

Why is the Catholic church trying to not let ANYONE into heaven? Seriously? Pollution? Excessive wealth (which, as we all know, that Vatican has)?

I asked my teacher about it and she said we'll talk about it next lesson.

This will be fun. Hopefully the less-than-100-IQ peeps won't ask too many stupid questions.

Iliad · Post by **Iliad** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:53 pm

Skittles! wrote:Why is the Catholic church trying to not let ANYONE into heaven? Seriously? Pollution? Excessive wealth (which, as we all know, that Vatican has)?

I asked my teacher about it and she said we'll talk about it next lesson.

This will be fun. Hopefully the less-than-100-IQ peeps won't ask too many stupid questions.

Yeah I know?
And the next mortal sin is breathing. I'm sorry but you're all going to hell. Not like you were going to go to heaven anyway

Frigidus · Post by **Frigidus** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:37 am

Skittles! wrote:Why is the Catholic church trying to not let ANYONE into heaven? Seriously? Pollution? Excessive wealth (which, as we all know, that Vatican has)?

I asked my teacher about it and she said we'll talk about it next lesson.

This will be fun. Hopefully the less-than-100-IQ peeps won't ask too many stupid questions.

If a majority of people get into heaven then they rely less on the church. More of the same really.

heavycola · Post by **heavycola** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:28 am

Skittles! wrote:Why is the Catholic church trying to not let ANYONE into heaven? Seriously? Pollution? Excessive wealth (which, as we all know, that Vatican has)?
.

Heaven is full. Too many illegal aliens. This is god'a way of tightening up border controls.

DirtyDishSoap · Post by **DirtyDishSoap** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:30 am

I think saint peters wasnt watching the gate close enough to see all the people jumping the border

The minute men angels were doing what they normally do, preaching and praying to god while pissing in a cup.

President God wants us to focus the problems on Earth and not Heaven, so he decides to throw in more miracles throwing our religion into crap.
Raising cloud prices into the millions.
While the devil to the east continues hi-jacking and carbombing our angels.

Such a mess

Snorri1234 · Post by **Snorri1234** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:25 am

Dancing Mustard wrote:
Napoleon Ier wrote:
Dancing Mustard wrote: Actual Content to stay 'on topic': How does the Catholic Church decide what is a mortal sin?
I dunno, how does English "common law" justify using obscure court rulings made 50+ years ago as the objective and absolute moral standard of justice of which the Law must be the embodiement?
Answer: They don't

Didn't you explain that to him already?

Napoleon Ier · Post by **Napoleon Ier** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:09 pm

Snorri1234 wrote:
Dancing Mustard wrote:
Napoleon Ier wrote:
Dancing Mustard wrote: Actual Content to stay 'on topic': How does the Catholic Church decide what is a mortal sin?
I dunno, how does English "common law" justify using obscure court rulings made 50+ years ago as the objective and absolute moral standard of justice of which the Law must be the embodiement?
Answer: They don't
Didn't you explain that to him already?

No, he just said I was too young to understand. I mean, I'm not so culturally arrogant as to think there isn't a perfectly good answer to why common law is a viable system with plenty of merits as having a Code Civil does, but I'm just trying to sucker an answerout of him.or someone less patronizing.

bradleybadly · Post by **bradleybadly** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:20 pm

heavycola wrote:Heaven is full. Too many illegal aliens.

The economy must be pretty good there.