Conquer Club

Greater China [Quenched] (thanks Widowmakers)

Care to peruse completed maps? Take a stroll through the Atlas.

Moderator: Cartographers

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Postby Marvaddin on Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:58 am

Once you asked me to comment, I would say the map looks very strange with the huge territories in the west and the crowded area in the east. Also the continents have too many borders. Purple, blue and orange areas have all their territories as border ones, and green and yellow have all but 1 territory as border ones. On other hand, the red area has just 2 borders in 6 territories... strange, huh? I could do an option changing the continents and its borders, but is it open to discussion?

One way borders are something usually bad, so I think they should be avoided when unnecessary. And the one from Xizang to Xizang looks unnecessary, even why Kashmir can bombard E. Xizang. If you dont want a normal border there to avoid green area having all countries as borders, you could instead of use the one way remove the yunnan to Guangxi border, or you could place a route between Sichuan, and, lets say, Qinghai.

Some more things I dont understand, although they can be discussed already:
What is the south river doing? Separating territories of the same continent? (Xizang to Sichuan and Zhejiang to Jiangsu.) About playability, looks like that river is doing nothing.
Why is the title Greater China? Greater than what?
Is there a good reason about Kashmir having the label in a different colour?
Whats that thing over the chinese flag?
User avatar
Major Marvaddin
 
Posts: 2545
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:06 pm
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil

Postby Wisse on Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:36 pm

thanks for your reply, you sayed some things that are discussed many times before and some things i didn't look at:
Once you asked me to comment, I would say the map looks very strange with the huge territories in the west and the crowded area in the east. Also the continents have too many borders. Purple, blue and orange areas have all their territories as border ones, and green and yellow have all but 1 territory as border ones. On other hand, the red area has just 2 borders in 6 territories... strange, huh? I could do an option changing the continents and its borders, but is it open to discussion?

you say the map looks strange because its crowded east and not west, there are some reasons for it:
1) more people do live at the sea, thats in nearly every country
2) in the west are mountains and thats why its very cold etc. and not easy to live so there does not live much people
those reasons is why it is not crowded there, it was even more crowded before, so i fused some terretorys together because of that

the borders etc. has been discussed before, and i think this gives a whole new gameplay, and i think i like it, it is also meant for 3 & 4 player games from the start (but now also 2 player). i know what you mean, it seems its impossible to hold a continent, but know what this makes a kind of a build up strategy, especially nice for no cards games :)

One way borders are something usually bad, so I think they should be avoided when unnecessary. And the one from Xizang to Xizang looks unnecessary, even why Kashmir can bombard E. Xizang. If you dont want a normal border there to avoid green area having all countries as borders, you could instead of use the one way remove the yunnan to Guangxi border, or you could place a route between Sichuan, and, lets say, Qinghai.


i think one way borders are good, if you don't have to many of them also for gameplay, just look to qwert's maps they have all good gameplay :)
the oneway border from xizang to xizang is because i wanted to add the mountains there that are there also normally (its some kind of a plateau (^sp)) why kashmir can bombard xizang is also for some reason, its know as a defence country so i thought why not make it a bombard country and to have a defence of the one way border (so the one way border isn't that big)
hmm you got an idea how to remove the yunnan-guanxi border? that seems ok to me

Some more things I dont understand, although they can be discussed already:
What is the south river doing? Separating territories of the same continent? (Xizang to Sichuan and Zhejiang to Jiangsu.) About playability, looks like that river is doing nothing.
Why is the title Greater China? Greater than what?
Is there a good reason about Kashmir having the label in a different colour?
Whats that thing over the chinese flag?

i would like you to thank for asking about the river i didn't look to that anymore so i will removing a few bridges
I had to add that part (Greater) because i did let Taiwan in my map wich is now a country of his own, and China + Taiwan is called Greater China
well there is a reason, its because gray was not readable or i had to move it to far away,
you mean that other flag? thats the flag of Taiwan ;)
Image Image
User avatar
Sergeant Wisse
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: The netherlands, gelderland, epe

Postby iancanton on Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:59 pm

wisse

u explained very nicely the reason for chinese kashmir being able to bombard the one-way border. i hadn't thought about that before. to avoid questions about whether it is part of the lanzhou region, can u put it on the bonus table, with a bonus of zero?

i really do not like the two rivers being joined up (someone else has mentioned this before). to be more geographically correct, can u draw some mountains to make a barrier between qinghai and sichuan? this will not change gameplay. it just looks much better!

if u want to remove a bridge or two, then can i suggest that u remove the one between anhui and jiangxi? in real life, these two provinces are backward and strategically unimportant. this will mean the nanjing region having having two disconnected halves (just like the africa continent on the extreme global warming map).

finally, u said that u designed this map for two, three or four players. 27 countries works for two or three. with four players, there are three neutral armies, which is not ideal. do u want to think again about putting ningxia on the map (but draw it bigger than its real size, by removing some land from nei mongol)?

ian. :)
User avatar
Brigadier iancanton
Foundry Foreman
Foundry Foreman
 
Posts: 2431
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:40 am
Location: europe

Postby Wisse on Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:42 am

iancanton wrote:wisse

u explained very nicely the reason for chinese kashmir being able to bombard the one-way border. i hadn't thought about that before. to avoid questions about whether it is part of the lanzhou region, can u put it on the bonus table, with a bonus of zero?

i really do not like the two rivers being joined up (someone else has mentioned this before). to be more geographically correct, can u draw some mountains to make a barrier between qinghai and sichuan? this will not change gameplay. it just looks much better!

if u want to remove a bridge or two, then can i suggest that u remove the one between anhui and jiangxi? in real life, these two provinces are backward and strategically unimportant. this will mean the nanjing region having having two disconnected halves (just like the africa continent on the extreme global warming map).

finally, u said that u designed this map for two, three or four players. 27 countries works for two or three. with four players, there are three neutral armies, which is not ideal. do u want to think again about putting ningxia on the map (but draw it bigger than its real size, by removing some land from nei mongol)?

ian. :)


i will look to all those things you said,
but the ningxia won't be added, because: 1 country is neutral from the start (a country of the orange continent) so its only 2 neutrals extra and with ningxia there are 3 extra neutrals
Image Image
User avatar
Sergeant Wisse
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: The netherlands, gelderland, epe

Postby iancanton on Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:30 am

hey wisse

u are right not to add ningxia. i miscounted the number of territories: there are 29, not 27! this means 1 neutral (including the jinan neutral) for two or four players, with 2 neutrals for three players.

ian. :)
User avatar
Brigadier iancanton
Foundry Foreman
Foundry Foreman
 
Posts: 2431
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:40 am
Location: europe

Postby Marvaddin on Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:43 am

Hey, again :)

If you want to remove the Yunnan-Guangxi border, give some lands from these territories to Guizhou. Its easy. :wink:

I understand the point of the crowded area in the east... But I wont say I agree with that; anyway lets ignore it. The "whole new gameplay" is more interesting to discuss. If you are aiming at build up strategy, why are you giving those bonuses with marked territories? Also, there are easy bonuses, mainly the red area and purple + Nei mongol (it becomes like SA). Curiously, these areas are near each other, and someone can get both (12 territories) for a bonus of 7, but with just 3 borders (wow, powered Asia in a map with less countries and that aimed for a buld up strategy)... No, wait, bonus of 8, with Hebei bonus. And get the orange area is also very possible :)

What Im saying is, the expansion, mainly from purple + Nei Mongol inst hard. Look: Hebei is a bonus at its door. Then Shanxi and another +2 bonus. When reaching Gansu, the borders are reduced again to 3, and the orange area is an easy target. And the bridges make Hebei and Liaoning even harder to attack. Only one enemy can attack then each time... oh, wait, but one of those orange territories will yet start neutral? So, a free defense??? :roll:

And while the south river is doing nothing, the north one is really making the playable North area isolated from a big no man land. So, my advice: the south river could be removed without a problem. The north one helps the northern area too much, so create some bridges. And urgently move the Hebei bonus to other spot. Plus, create a holdable area also in the Southeast area.

Another thing to discuss... should we really have this map as 2 countries map because of 1 territory... What Im saying is, why not remove Taiwan then? Im imagining a Greater Brazil map, which is Brazil map, plus Uruguay (1 territory without any special importance)... Then I would put a smaller Uruguay flag over the Brazil flag... Hmmmm, I think people of both countries would become mad... While one of the countries is much bigger, and much more important in terms of global economy, geopolitics, etc, they are 2 countries and should be equally respected. Put a flag smaller than the other, or put a flag over the other, I dont know, but I think it would sound disrespectfull. Its just my opinion, but I would think about remove taiwan from the map.
User avatar
Major Marvaddin
 
Posts: 2545
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:06 pm
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil

Postby Wisse on Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:06 am

Marvaddin wrote:Hey, again :)

If you want to remove the Yunnan-Guangxi border, give some lands from these territories to Guizhou. Its easy. :wink:

ok will look to that

I understand the point of the crowded area in the east... But I wont say I agree with that; anyway lets ignore it. The "whole new gameplay" is more interesting to discuss. If you are aiming at build up strategy, why are you giving those bonuses with marked territories? Also, there are easy bonuses, mainly the red area and purple + Nei mongol (it becomes like SA). Curiously, these areas are near each other, and someone can get both (12 territories) for a bonus of 7, but with just 3 borders (wow, powered Asia in a map with less countries and that aimed for a buld up strategy)... No, wait, bonus of 8, with Hebei bonus. And get the orange area is also very possible :)

ok i get the idea now, i have something planned for that

What Im saying is, the expansion, mainly from purple + Nei Mongol inst hard. Look: Hebei is a bonus at its door. Then Shanxi and another +2 bonus. When reaching Gansu, the borders are reduced again to 3, and the orange area is an easy target. And the bridges make Hebei and Liaoning even harder to attack. Only one enemy can attack then each time... oh, wait, but one of those orange territories will yet start neutral? So, a free defense??? :roll:

as i sayed above i am planning to do something about it, and about the bridges, it isn't that much a defense, it is 1 army it aren't 3 armys, its just so no-one will start of with that bonus

And while the south river is doing nothing, the north one is really making the playable North area isolated from a big no man land. So, my advice: the south river could be removed without a problem. The north one helps the northern area too much, so create some bridges. And urgently move the Hebei bonus to other spot. Plus, create a holdable area also in the Southeast area.

i am not gonna remove the rivers, but i will change them

Another thing to discuss... should we really have this map as 2 countries map because of 1 territory... What Im saying is, why not remove Taiwan then? Im imagining a Greater Brazil map, which is Brazil map, plus Uruguay (1 territory without any special importance)... Then I would put a smaller Uruguay flag over the Brazil flag... Hmmmm, I think people of both countries would become mad... While one of the countries is much bigger, and much more important in terms of global economy, geopolitics, etc, they are 2 countries and should be equally respected. Put a flag smaller than the other, or put a flag over the other, I dont know, but I think it would sound disrespectfull. Its just my opinion, but I would think about remove taiwan from the map.


well i wanted to do that but then all the people did complain about it, so i decided to keep it up, and as it is only one country and they have a small flag and a big army of coats on the map i don't think there is a problem with it


thanks for your reply ;)
Image Image
User avatar
Sergeant Wisse
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: The netherlands, gelderland, epe

Postby iancanton on Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:06 am

hi wisse

i looked at the northern part of the map many times and it did not look right. now i know the reason: the yellow river is the wrong shape! compare it with the wikipedia map below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Huanghemap.png

the yellow river has a great upside-down U bend in the river that is missing from ur map. the real yellow river is a barrier on the west, north and east side of shaanxi, but u have it incorrectly on the south and nowhere else!

i suggest that u change the yellow river to follow its real path west, north and east of shaanxi, then remove the river south of shaanxi. build a bridge to link gansu with shaanxi, so that shaanxi is not separated from the other red territories.

at the moment, we have two "railway lines", gansu-shaanxi-shanxi-hebei and yunnan-exizang-wxizang, that i dislike, as it will make many games the same as each other on this small map (29 territories). if the yellow river forms an impassable barrier between shaanxi and shanxi, then the gameplay will be better.

for each colour, the number of border territories will not change. red will be able to attack four different colours, not only blue. red, as well as yellow, will be able to attack green. orange will become more difficult to hold (because red will be able to attack it), which is good. it will also be more difficult for the purple and blue player sitting in the corner to advance to gansu because he will need to go through orange.

if u don't want to open sichuan so much, then perhaps u can put some impassable mountains between sichuan and hubei, so that green and yellow are not always thinking about attacking each other; in real life, these are the gorge mountains (wu shan), close to the famous three gorges.

http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/artic ... -Mountains

the graphics are now looking really good, since u made the rivers the same colour as the sea, with no shadows.

ian. :)
User avatar
Brigadier iancanton
Foundry Foreman
Foundry Foreman
 
Posts: 2431
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:40 am
Location: europe

Postby Wisse on Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:57 am

iancanton wrote:hi wisse

i looked at the northern part of the map many times and it did not look right. now i know the reason: the yellow river is the wrong shape! compare it with the wikipedia map below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Huanghemap.png

the yellow river has a great upside-down U bend in the river that is missing from ur map. the real yellow river is a barrier on the west, north and east side of shaanxi, but u have it incorrectly on the south and nowhere else!

i suggest that u change the yellow river to follow its real path west, north and east of shaanxi, then remove the river south of shaanxi. build a bridge to link gansu with shaanxi, so that shaanxi is not separated from the other red territories.

you are right! i will change it

at the moment, we have two "railway lines", gansu-shaanxi-shanxi-hebei and yunnan-exizang-wxizang, that i dislike, as it will make many games the same as each other on this small map (29 territories). if the yellow river forms an impassable barrier between shaanxi and shanxi, then the gameplay will be better.

hmm yeah this map will change much with the comments of you and marvadin (gameplaywise) thnx

for each colour, the number of border territories will not change. red will be able to attack four different colours, not only blue. red, as well as yellow, will be able to attack green. orange will become more difficult to hold (because red will be able to attack it), which is good. it will also be more difficult for the purple and blue player sitting in the corner to advance to gansu because he will need to go through orange.

if u don't want to open sichuan so much, then perhaps u can put some impassable mountains between sichuan and hubei, so that green and yellow are not always thinking about attacking each other; in real life, these are the gorge mountains (wu shan), close to the famous three gorges.

http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/artic ... -Mountains
thanks i will look into that
the graphics are now looking really good, since u made the rivers the same colour as the sea, with no shadows.

ian. :)


the rivers aren't the same colour they are darker
Image Image
User avatar
Sergeant Wisse
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: The netherlands, gelderland, epe

Postby militant on Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:30 pm

Wisse are you going to continue his map because i am exited about playing it . only here hasnt been any updates or posts for a while now :cry:
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class militant
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:25 pm
Location: Playing Mafia

Postby unriggable on Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:16 pm

Jesus, how long has this map been in FF? Seems like forever.
Image
User avatar
Cook unriggable
 
Posts: 8037
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:49 pm

Postby ParadiceCity9 on Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:02 pm

unriggable wrote:Jesus, how long has this map been in FF? Seems like forever.


same with south africa.
Corporal 1st Class ParadiceCity9
 
Posts: 4239
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:10 pm

Postby Gustaf Wasa on Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:18 pm

My advice would be to get rid of Kashmir, it looks like a little dark spot of dirt next to all the colorful provinces. Also, why include such a mini rule, that Kashmir can bomb the neighboring province but not conquer it?
User avatar
General Gustaf Wasa
 
Posts: 198
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: The Swedish outpost of Atlantis

Postby Wisse on Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:38 am

militant wrote:Wisse are you going to continue his map because i am exited about playing it . only here hasnt been any updates or posts for a while now :cry:


yup i am, but this map making was just to much for me, so i backed off for a while, i will try to do somethign next week
Image Image
User avatar
Sergeant Wisse
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: The netherlands, gelderland, epe

Postby Wisse on Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:39 am

ParadiceCity9 wrote:
unriggable wrote:Jesus, how long has this map been in FF? Seems like forever.


same with south africa.


mine is currently with malta the longest maps in the foundry that are final forged
Image Image
User avatar
Sergeant Wisse
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: The netherlands, gelderland, epe

Postby Wisse on Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:40 am

Gustaf Wasa wrote:My advice would be to get rid of Kashmir, it looks like a little dark spot of dirt next to all the colorful provinces. Also, why include such a mini rule, that Kashmir can bomb the neighboring province but not conquer it?


i won't delete it, i like it, and thats for gameplay
Image Image
User avatar
Sergeant Wisse
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: The netherlands, gelderland, epe

Postby militant on Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:58 am

Wisse wrote:
militant wrote:Wisse are you going to continue his map because i am exited about playing it . only here hasnt been any updates or posts for a while now :cry:


yup i am, but this map making was just to much for me, so i backed off for a while, i will try to do somethign next week

Glad to hear it! :D
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class militant
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:25 pm
Location: Playing Mafia

Postby Lone.prophet on Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:18 am

can you try to blend the bridges in more, maybe let them merges slowly with the land
Image
Captain Lone.prophet
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Your basement Muahaha

Postby Wisse on Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:30 pm

Lone.prophet wrote:can you try to blend the bridges in more, maybe let them merges slowly with the land

i can try but i think it will turn out ugly
Image Image
User avatar
Sergeant Wisse
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: The netherlands, gelderland, epe

Postby soundout9 on Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:11 pm

Wisse wrote:
Lone.prophet wrote:can you try to blend the bridges in more, maybe let them merges slowly with the land

i can try but i think it will turn out ugly

Hey wisse i love this map and guess what? we are becoming official!
Private soundout9
 
Posts: 4519
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:30 pm
Location: Good ol' MO Clan: Next-Gen Gamers

Postby spiesr on Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:16 pm

Isn't the Link is your sig on the map a copywrite problem?
User avatar
Captain spiesr
 
Posts: 2809
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:52 am
Location: South Dakota

Postby Wisse on Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:16 pm

soundout9 wrote:
Wisse wrote:
Lone.prophet wrote:can you try to blend the bridges in more, maybe let them merges slowly with the land

i can try but i think it will turn out ugly

Hey wisse i love this map and guess what? we are becoming official!


lol ty, i know that, i check the thread every day :P
Image Image
User avatar
Sergeant Wisse
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:59 pm
Location: The netherlands, gelderland, epe

Postby gimil on Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:24 pm

Whens the next damm update wisse?
What do you know about map making, bitch?

natty_dread wrote:I was wrong


Top Score:2403
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class gimil
 
Posts: 8599
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:42 pm
Location: United Kingdom (Scotland)

i want to see this game in CC.

Postby CClubFever on Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:38 am

i want to see this game in CC.
Private 1st Class CClubFever
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:47 am

Postby Gilligan on Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:40 pm

Bump
Image
User avatar
Captain Gilligan
 
Posts: 12478
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 4:59 pm
Location: Providence, RI

PreviousNext

Return to The Atlas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users