Black Metal Mafia - D2

[SoN!c]

If you think so just vote me Loose.

Im sus of a lot of players atm.

[Loose Canon]

Interesting sonic.

That's a line I've taken when falsely accused but confident in a previous game.

Maybe my suspicion has gone up in a cloud of smoke, really quickly.

[kongming3]

Eh, I don't particularly suspect sonic at the moment but that kind of false bravado says nothing at this point. There was absolutely zero real pressure on him so acting tough is incredibly easy to do and has no consequences.

[Ragian]

Official vote count



Charle (1) - Max
Max (1) - EW
Pixar (1) - Loose

[SoN!c]

Eh, I don't particularly suspect sonic at the moment but that kind of false bravado says nothing at this point. There was absolutely zero real pressure on him so acting tough is incredibly easy to do and has no consequences.

It has nothing to do with false bravado. Just a bit annoyed atm. I did my research at the start of the game. Then with the holidays in between all i can remember is euronymus and hellgate bar. All the rest, i already forgot..including some posts i made here after seeing them again as quote. Too much to remember on a subject i knew nothing before the start.

Hellsviti? The famous record shop in Oslo. And Euronymous. That's all i remember from reading. In the set-up with 2 goons there is only one jailkeeper. I think the record shop stands for the safe haven so Euronymus is the record shop operator. Ragian said those roles were already "given" (in a way) and if the goons went for the second set up he would alter a few players (adding / changing 2 vannila role's into the cop and into the second jailkeeper no doubt).

That is also why those 2 will have received the altered version later on, and im 100% sure that for the goons, deciding on what set-up they would play, in any case would have taken a considerable amount of time. It can't be an easy "no brainer" choice.

Looking Euronymous up now in wiki (again):

Euronymous, was a Norwegian musician and a founder of and central figure in the early Norwegian black metal scene. He was a co-founder and guitarist of the Norwegian black metal band Mayhem and was the only constant member from the band's formation in 1984 until his death in 1993. He was also founder and owner of the extreme metal record label Deathlike Silence Productions and record shop Helvete.

"Within just a few months [of Helvete opening], many young musicians had become obsessed with Euronymous and his ideas, and soon a lot of Norwegian death metal bands transformed into black metal bands. "

Euronymous, Mayhem, Helvete. That is what i think goes around in Ragian's head as base line setting this thing up. Pretty confident on that.

So Euronymus is the original jailkeeper role. That's my 2 cents theory. That is why saying our names is not a good idea. And if that theory is right then the second jailkeeper and cop have to do something with Euronymus and Helvete too...

Ofcourse all the above could be rubbish too. Who cares anyway lol

[Extreme Ways]

12 players in a semi open metal state of mind. So if i get it right thats:

semi open 1 = 3 goons vs 9 town (and town has 2 jailkeepers and 1 cop) - town has at least 6 nights (on no lynch) before it goes 3-3
vs

semi open 2 = 2 goons vs 10 town (and town has 1 jailkeeper) - town has at least 8 nights (on no lynch) before it goes 2-2 and the jailkeeper is a sort of cop too.. If there is only one goon left who is targeted by the jailkeeper the last remaining goon can not nightkill (as he is behind bars) and with no nightkill the target must be the last goon...

The jailkeeper(s) can protect its target from goon night kill, but also Roleblocks its target, so: protect the cop then the cop gets behind bars and is safe but also roleblocked...

Also 2 jailkeepers can self target (and have double chance to mistarget the cop) so i like our odds way more in semi-open 2 (just 1 jailkeeper and only 2 goons to find).

In semi-open 1 you have 3 goons so the goon factional kill can never be blocked until the first goon dies and even then, both jailkeepers -independent from each other- targetting both remaining goons is against all odds..

Couple of points;

If there is no nightkill, it can mean many things especially in the pr-heavy setup. Either the target was protected, or the person carrying out the nk was roleblocked.
With multiple jailkeepers, the odds of blocking a kill becomes significantly higher whether it's the target you're protecting, or the mafia you're blocking.

[Extreme Ways]

tldr in setup 2 the odds of blocking your cop as well as blocking the nk significantly increase even if theres more people to carry out the nk

[Extreme Ways]

Seems like I didnt miss much.

Sonic keeps paying attention to flavour, I have forgotten my own flavour already tbh. Flavourclaiming is allowed iirc, but that also means that your flavour-role has no impact on your alignment and flavour was assigned before roles were assigned. To even indulge the flavour argument, where would you put Varg? Scum for all the things he has done, or jailkeeper for his prison albums?

Also there's lots and lots and lots of black metal musicians with... interesting views and acts

[jfm10]

Seems like I didnt miss much.

Sonic keeps paying attention to flavour, I have forgotten my own flavour already tbh. Flavourclaiming is allowed iirc, but that also means that your flavour-role has no impact on your alignment and flavour was assigned before roles were assigned. To even indulge the flavour argument, where would you put Varg? Scum for all the things he has done, or jailkeeper for his prison albums?

Also there's lots and lots and lots of black metal musicians with... interesting views and acts

I am Abbath of the immortals . I gave up strumming in the 90s and went to guitar in 2000s.
I am VT and the best chance we have to lynch a scum on day 1 is to change the percentage of accuracy.
As we start day1, I see 11 players each with a 9 percent chance of being scum.
Charle has proven town to me and that will go unchanged for me throughout game.
I have looked into this band and didn't see nothing scum worthy so taking band mates off day1 vote leaves 7 players at14.3 percent.
I believe day2 will start with the next bands introduction and 4 more players should introduce themselves.

[Loose Canon]

Jfm how on earth is Charle proven town to you?

Are you trying to buy brownie (with pot in it) points from Charle - as scum might?

[jfm10]

Role received and understood

9 players got there mail when Charle responded at this time . They should all be seeing it.

[Extreme Ways]

I... dont understand how that is clearing at all, unless you have prior knowledge of Charle being town.

[jfm10]

Role received and understood

Vote Chuck

Actually I agree Charle was suspiciously fast off the mark.

FOS on Charle.

I posted as soon as I received my role in my inbox

I must say, this time of the year I was not going to sit by my laptop the whole day

Most believable response.

[strike wolf]

Caught up. I dont think there's really anything that proves Charle is town. If I was the one hosting, I'd probably put in big bold letters in their roles for mafia not to confirm to not give themselves up too easily N0 but while it seems from my initial PM, Ragian likely included some message to mafia regarding this, whether it was big bold and highlighted or just a part of their message that Charle would have had to read fully to get, I cannot say.

I will say the vagueness of my initial PM prompted me to read it more closely than I might have otherwise if I had been told out right what my role was.

In short, I don't not think Charle confirming early definitively makes him scum but I do think it makes him slightly more likely to be scum. So with nothing else to go on ans the game needing a bit of a jump start.

Vote Charle

I can't say I found anyone else particularly noteworthy. Maybe go into more detail on why you think Son!c would behave this way as scum, Loose?

The only other thing I'll note is that there seems to be a lot of half-claims and full claims. I dont think name claims hurt us too much with the ambiguous nature of what the mafia will look like name wise but I advise more caution with telling people you're Vt or another role. Mafia currently knows more about the set up than we do and can derive more information from random claims than us. Conversely, a cop fake claiming VT could influence a Jail keeper to target and role block thinking that it's a low risk use of their ability.

[SoN!c]

Loose is just probing out, doing his thing. Im pretty sure you know that Strike. After all:

Timing is everything in this game. And knowing who to trust.

On the first part: since black metal is from 89-94 i remember stuff from the school yard. Especially speed metal mixed with trash metal / black metal. And Metallica before the black album. Looks like we are all that old lol.

On the second part: you tell me

[Kingm]

Seems like I didnt miss much.

Sonic keeps paying attention to flavour, I have forgotten my own flavour already tbh. Flavourclaiming is allowed iirc, but that also means that your flavour-role has no impact on your alignment and flavour was assigned before roles were assigned. To even indulge the flavour argument, where would you put Varg? Scum for all the things he has done, or jailkeeper for his prison albums?

Also there's lots and lots and lots of black metal musicians with... interesting views and acts

Varg = Arsonist?

[Kingm]

Role received and understood

9 players got there mail when Charle responded at this time . They should all be seeing it.

But did not the scum also get the same DM at the same time?
The only ones that did not get was the ones that had a not decided role yet, thats at least how I thought it was?
And if so then its crazy of you to claim that Charle is proven town, but I guess he is proven not to be the 3.scum if there is one

[Charle]

This is how I see it, as I am town.

1. I first received the following message: "You are town, but given it's N0, you don't know your role just yet. You may, however, spend your time reading the opening post in the thread. No post just yet, however, as it is N0 " ... I am sure all town players could confirm this as we all would have received the same message.
2. The next post I was given my name and my role. Because I did not have lots of time to spend here because of holidays, I just confirmed that immediately when I received it.
3. I guess Ragian just went down the list as we signed up (mine was first).
4. I would guess the mafia goons already known their roles from the starty, as they had to make a decision on N0 and they would never be able to know when town received their roles, so it was also confirmed here that I posted within minutes of the other town members received their roles, making me confirmed town.

With that now out of the way, let's discuss what would be a clever move for mafia on N0? I would thought to convert one of the experienced players to increase my army?

I have a huge FOS on Strike as he should have known the above points with his experience.

[Charle]

Role received and understood

9 players got there mail when Charle responded at this time . They should all be seeing it.

But did not the scum also get the same DM at the same time?
The only ones that did not get was the ones that had a not decided role yet, thats at least how I thought it was?
And if so then its crazy of you to claim that Charle is proven town, but I guess he is proven not to be the 3.scum if there is one

It looks like you did not get the message I mentioned in my point no 1 above?

[Ragian]

I strongly advise you to read rule 3 before I start mod killing.

[Extreme Ways]

Charle argument hinges on the fact scum may not know when roles have gone out, but scum would have mafia chat with Ragian, so they would know when roles would go out as well no.

[*Pixar*]

I don't think Charle was supposed to expose that information

But with that info, Charle reads town for me.

Is it bad that I have no idea what Sonic was posting in page 2?

[SoN!c]

I don't think Charle was supposed to expose that information

But with that info, Charle reads town for me.

Is it bad that I have no idea what Sonic was posting in page 2?

No not at all. I have no idea too

[SoN!c]

Okay, it took some time to think it thru.. BUT THIS IS HUUUUGE?


A: Charle posted his pm confirming he is town.

B: As a result Charle is confirmed town just like JFM said.. like JFM knew already??

C: Charle is not modkilled for it?

D: JFM spoke of some sort of "opening act"..typical for heavy metal concerts to have an opening band touring with the headliner.

E: 2 goons versus 10 townies including a jailkeeper is way too overpowered for town?

A+B+C+D+E= ? Charle and JFM doing that opening act here?

And confirmed town Charle says he has a big FOS on Strike while hinting the 2 goons would most likely have recruited a experienced player (like Strike is)

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I don't think Charle was supposed to expose that information

But with that info, Charle reads town for me.

Agree, that is pretty telling