[CCXIV] R3: ACES (26) vs LHDD (29) - LHDD Wins - Fnl 9/1/24

[MichelSableheart]

Not trying to wade into the wider discussion, and it may be more appropriate for the CAT forum, but

Because, seriously, who's hurt by anyone being a couple of hours late ?

As a freemium, I am. There are a lot of clan events, and I don't have many slots for games available (and before you say I should get premium, that's an intentional choice to prevent myself from overcommitting). Those 8 hours mean 1 less turn taken in the time I've reserved that slot. Which means there's a higher then 0 chance they'll prevent me from joining the next round of a different Clan event.

[donche64]

One small detail:
We’ve been notified the penalty at 00:03, three minutes after the end of the deadline…people of Conquer Club, please note that the martial law is in order and the sheriffs back in Town.
We are not talking about someone missing his invites and dragging the length of the war there…
As Donelladan said, you have to understand the context of a rule ; the 6-week deadline is there to prevent a war to drag on forever, making sure that the tournament fits within a calendar year. Set 2 games of the other semifinals haven’t even been exchanged yet, don’t see how our war wouldn’t finish before theirs.

MichelSableheart : cut the bullshit, I’ve been a clan leader dealing with the gameload of many freemiums over the years, and never have I been impacted by a couple hours, it really is easy to avoid.

But in the end, yeah, we were in the wrong and TOs can totally penalize us. Let’s be the harshest possible then, that’s the good spirit to have people enjoying this site and prevent them to leave…

[i-andrei]

Well this feels not right.
Covered by the rules in place but méchant, to use a french word.

[detlef]

my two cents: I'm not going to campaign for the penalty and, in a way, would be fine if it wasn't levied.

However, I do get a bit annoyed with the apparent gamesmanship that goes on with initiating and joining games. One clan in particular seems to be the worst at it, but I've noticed a trend of clans waiting as long as they can to do this. Perhaps they feel this gives them an advantage, perhaps it's just borne from trying to annoy the other clan. But I don't buy the bit about being busy, because you have a week to do it.

And this is why I'm not bothered by the rule being enforced. Because it seems like more and more, clans are pushing it as much as they can. Instead of just taking care of it, they wait until the last day or hours. I recall when I was the proxy leader for AWOL in the end, it seemed rather suspicious how our last opponent seemed to initiate and fill all their games literally in the last hours. Why? I don't know. Again, maybe clans who do this feel they get an advantage, maybe they just do it to get under everyone else's skin.

However, one way to enable this rather annoying behavior is to not enforce the rule. So, for those clan who like to make a habit of pushing it just think, "if we go a bit over, someone will wag a finger at us and that will be that."

I don't have enough history with LHDD to know whether they make a habit of this or not. And, if it's the latter, I can empathize with their frustrations at being made an example.

However, I do think the attitude of "why enforce it if nobody is truly hurt" is a bit silly. Wars seem to drag on because enough clans see a week deadline and decide to wait as long as they can rather than just take care of business and just get it done as soon as they can.

I also really hope that this war doesn't come down to this (assuming the penalty stands). That, either we win it without the help of it, or they beat us despite it. Though for obvious reasons, I hope it's the former

[donche64]

Or maybe everything in life isn't about Conquer Club ???

I'll answer for myself ; I'm trying to set up a business + I'm gonna become a dad for the first time late September. So in my to-do list, CC comes (minimum) third, and a deadline is the opportunity not to pile up something more at the shortest term.

If you haven't noticed yet, more and more people are leaving the site and less and less are hardcore users, so being close to a deadline is also the opportunity to make sure everybody will be able to take its turns, to pick the right players to avoid lots of sittings, which has also been an issue for both clans this war (you just have to read some logs and you'll see the number of turns sitted; life sometimes strikes hard and there is nothing you can do about it...)

So no, there is no competitive advantage in waiting till the last moments before a deadline, at least not in my books in any case (once again, we are talking about invites pending, not missed nor unfilled). And yeah, when I'm done IRL and I login, I tend to take things less seriously, especially when it's about playing a board game. But apparently I'm too volatile for CC standards, which confirms that I need to find a new hobby when I'm done with this competition.

[detlef]

Or maybe everything in life isn't about Conquer Club ???

I'll answer for myself ; I'm trying to set up a business + I'm gonna become a dad for the first time late September. So in my to-do list, CC comes (minimum) third, and a deadline is the opportunity not to pile up something more at the shortest term.

If you haven't noticed yet, more and more people are leaving the site and less and less are hardcore users, so being close to a deadline is also the opportunity to make sure everybody will be able to take its turns, to pick the right players to avoid lots of sittings, which has also been an issue for both clans this war (you just have to read some logs and you'll see the number of turns sitted; life sometimes strikes hard and there is nothing you can do about it...)

So no, there is no competitive advantage in waiting till the last moments before a deadline, at least not in my books in any case (once again, we are talking about invites pending, not missed nor unfilled). And yeah, when I'm done IRL and I login, I tend to take things less seriously, especially when it's about playing a board game. But apparently I'm too volatile for CC standards, which confirms that I need to find a new hobby when I'm done with this competition.

I understand your frustration and regret if I failed to make that clear enough in my initial post. I also recall being on opposite sides as Don in another debate, each of us feeling that what the other was advocating for, diminished the enjoyment of the game (and thus could contribute to decreased membership).

This is just such a case. You see enforcement of deadlines as something that might drive people away. On the other hand, I get tired of getting my games sent to me in a timely manner, accepting them, and then (more and more) waiting a week for the other team to join. Or, just as annoying, having OUR games and teams sitting there on display for about a week while we wait for the other team to do the same. Who's to say which of us is more entitled to our frustrations?

And, one could argue that it could be advantageous to always be second to act when it comes to initiating games (which I realize is not exactly what this is about but fits into the general MO of waiting as long as one can). Your opponent has shown their hand before you which could affect what you do.

ps. Congrats on your impending dad-ship!

[donche64]

And English isn't my first language nor my strong point so I might seem more agressive towards you than I am in reality through my answers, no hard feelings !
But to sum it up :
- we agree that we screwed up ;
- I got your point about being frustrated with some late timings, and you're right, as it is personal, everybody is entitled its own opinions (and be "right" with it) ;
- it's not that I see the enforcement of deadlines as something that would drive people away (see, that's where I struggle to be precise in my explanations), but as Done said earlier you also have to pace yourself when doing so + in my opinion no advantage was gained from this situation.

What really tilted me is to receive the inbox at 00:03, which means people really were eager to play sheriff, watching the clock expiring.
I'm more the kind of guy to wall my opponents on a crucial turn that they are about to miss, whatever the level of competition (did it for S&M previous round, did it for ACE this round too) and outcome is, than be satisfied with an half-assed win, that's my state of mind. Of course I want to win, so I'm also pissed off with an avoidable penalty, but I want to have fun with guys I've been knowing now for more than 10 years, above all ; the unnecessary harshness (in my books) of some decisions make it hard too.

Ps: Appreciate that mate

Or maybe everything in life isn't about Conquer Club ???

I'll answer for myself ; I'm trying to set up a business + I'm gonna become a dad for the first time late September. So in my to-do list, CC comes (minimum) third, and a deadline is the opportunity not to pile up something more at the shortest term.

If you haven't noticed yet, more and more people are leaving the site and less and less are hardcore users, so being close to a deadline is also the opportunity to make sure everybody will be able to take its turns, to pick the right players to avoid lots of sittings, which has also been an issue for both clans this war (you just have to read some logs and you'll see the number of turns sitted; life sometimes strikes hard and there is nothing you can do about it...)

So no, there is no competitive advantage in waiting till the last moments before a deadline, at least not in my books in any case (once again, we are talking about invites pending, not missed nor unfilled). And yeah, when I'm done IRL and I login, I tend to take things less seriously, especially when it's about playing a board game. But apparently I'm too volatile for CC standards, which confirms that I need to find a new hobby when I'm done with this competition.

I understand your frustration and regret if I failed to make that clear enough in my initial post. I also recall being on opposite sides as Don in another debate, each of us feeling that what the other was advocating for, diminished the enjoyment of the game (and thus could contribute to decreased membership).

This is just such a case. You see enforcement of deadlines as something that might drive people away. On the other hand, I get tired of getting my games sent to me in a timely manner, accepting them, and then (more and more) waiting a week for the other team to join. Or, just as annoying, having OUR games and teams sitting there on display for about a week while we wait for the other team to do the same. Who's to say which of us is more entitled to our frustrations?

And, one could argue that it could be advantageous to always be second to act when it comes to initiating games (which I realize is not exactly what this is about but fits into the general MO of waiting as long as one can). Your opponent has shown their hand before you which could affect what you do.

ps. Congrats on your impending dad-ship!

[detlef]

And English isn't my first language nor my strong point so I might seem more agressive towards you than I am in reality through my answers, no hard feelings !
But to sum it up :
- we agree that we screwed up ;
- I got your point about being frustrated with some late timings, and you're right, as it is personal, everybody is entitled its own opinions (and be "right" with it) ;
- it's not that I see the enforcement of deadlines as something that would drive people away (see, that's where I struggle to be precise in my explanations), but as Done said earlier you also have to pace yourself when doing so + in my opinion no advantage was gained from this situation.

What really tilted me is to receive the inbox at 00:03, which means people really were eager to play sheriff, watching the clock expiring.
I'm more the kind of guy to wall my opponents on a crucial turn that they are about to miss, whatever the level of competition (did it for S&M previous round, did it for ACE this round too) and outcome is, than be satisfied with an half-assed win, that's my state of mind. Of course I want to win, so I'm also pissed off with an avoidable penalty, but I want to have fun with guys I've been knowing now for more than 10 years, above all ; the unnecessary harshness (in my books) of some decisions make it hard too.

Ps: Appreciate that mate

Or maybe everything in life isn't about Conquer Club ???

I'll answer for myself ; I'm trying to set up a business + I'm gonna become a dad for the first time late September. So in my to-do list, CC comes (minimum) third, and a deadline is the opportunity not to pile up something more at the shortest term.

If you haven't noticed yet, more and more people are leaving the site and less and less are hardcore users, so being close to a deadline is also the opportunity to make sure everybody will be able to take its turns, to pick the right players to avoid lots of sittings, which has also been an issue for both clans this war (you just have to read some logs and you'll see the number of turns sitted; life sometimes strikes hard and there is nothing you can do about it...)

So no, there is no competitive advantage in waiting till the last moments before a deadline, at least not in my books in any case (once again, we are talking about invites pending, not missed nor unfilled). And yeah, when I'm done IRL and I login, I tend to take things less seriously, especially when it's about playing a board game. But apparently I'm too volatile for CC standards, which confirms that I need to find a new hobby when I'm done with this competition.

I understand your frustration and regret if I failed to make that clear enough in my initial post. I also recall being on opposite sides as Don in another debate, each of us feeling that what the other was advocating for, diminished the enjoyment of the game (and thus could contribute to decreased membership).

This is just such a case. You see enforcement of deadlines as something that might drive people away. On the other hand, I get tired of getting my games sent to me in a timely manner, accepting them, and then (more and more) waiting a week for the other team to join. Or, just as annoying, having OUR games and teams sitting there on display for about a week while we wait for the other team to do the same. Who's to say which of us is more entitled to our frustrations?

And, one could argue that it could be advantageous to always be second to act when it comes to initiating games (which I realize is not exactly what this is about but fits into the general MO of waiting as long as one can). Your opponent has shown their hand before you which could affect what you do.

ps. Congrats on your impending dad-ship!

thanks for the clarification and, again, I'm not angling for this punishment to stand.

Where I think you and I differ is with the "no harm, no foul" deal. Of course we were not hurt by y'all going over. So, by that measure, you're right, you shouldn't lose a game. However, (and I risk speaking for others here) but to those of us who grow tired of the trend to push it as far as you can in filling or initiating games,we feel there should be an element of "play with fire, you might get burned". However, like I said before, I have no idea if you guys make a habit of this or not.

[fishydance]

What really tilted me is to receive the inbox at 00:03, which means people really were eager to play sheriff, watching the clock expiring.
I'm more the kind of guy to wall my opponents on a crucial turn that they are about to miss, whatever the level of competition (did it for S&M previous round, did it for ACE this round too) and outcome is, than be satisfied with an half-assed win, that's my state of mind. Of course I want to win, so I'm also pissed off with an avoidable penalty, but I want to have fun with guys I've been knowing now for more than 10 years, above all ; the unnecessary harshness (in my books) of some decisions make it hard too.

I can certainly see how that looks. That said, it's also quite possible that the person sending you the message was simply there at that time because they do work late at night. I didn't send the PM so I can say that's what happened, but it may not be as bad is it seems.

I also want to thank you for being the sort of player who walls your opponents. I've seen you do it and greatly appreciated it. That's what true sportsmanship is!

[donche64]

Yes it is possible indeed; hopefully that's the case !

Thanks for the kind words <3

On a more competitive note, for those tired of the legal aspect, current score seems to be 13 (14-1) - 11 on decided games, with one escalating game strongly leaning for us (Ardennes).

Two set 1 games remain balanced => Das Schloss (trench) and Rail South America (esc).

What really tilted me is to receive the inbox at 00:03, which means people really were eager to play sheriff, watching the clock expiring.
I'm more the kind of guy to wall my opponents on a crucial turn that they are about to miss, whatever the level of competition (did it for S&M previous round, did it for ACE this round too) and outcome is, than be satisfied with an half-assed win, that's my state of mind. Of course I want to win, so I'm also pissed off with an avoidable penalty, but I want to have fun with guys I've been knowing now for more than 10 years, above all ; the unnecessary harshness (in my books) of some decisions make it hard too.

I can certainly see how that looks. That said, it's also quite possible that the person sending you the message was simply there at that time because they do work late at night. I didn't send the PM so I can say that's what happened, but it may not be as bad is it seems.

I also want to thank you for being the sort of player who walls your opponents. I've seen you do it and greatly appreciated it. That's what true sportsmanship is!

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I haven't posted anything because my words can be seen in ways that are not meant to for different reasons: ACES leader and also CD member.

But what I will say it's not ACES position (We have talked about it but I could not say we have a unified position about the subject). Nor CD as I refrained myself from taking the decision as my clan is involved.

So, I’m not saying if the decision is good or not. However, I do not think you went over the deadline on purpose nor with the intent to cause any harm. However I also think rules and deadlines are there for a reason. Otherwise, why have them?. We can also say we agreed on the deadlines that you guys proppossed. Dates are also part of the approach to the war, so that's a reason some of ACES sees it as the right call as the deadlines were part of the overall start to play this war.

Having said that, I agree with what detlef said. I really hope the point deduction does not have an impact on the overall war.

That, either we win it without the help of it, or they beat us despite it. Though for obvious reasons, I hope it's the former

PS. Donche is right First set 14 games LHDD 11 ACES withouth the penalty. And it's likely they get at least 15 first set. So ACES needs to come back. Luckly not the first time we need to do that.

[Leehar]

I support LHDD view.
If it's a weekend, you fill games when you can, game is filled a few hours late, you get on with it and play to win the game on the field. There's so few people playing the game anyway, don't forfeit a whole game because of a penalty.

It's now going on 15 years of the cups. One of the early years we had a 21 game forfeit because of something fairly minor and it ended up deciding a tournament. I'm glad the penalties are less harsh now and more appropriate, but seems best to always try decide things on the field of play, rather than in the rulebook.

Definitely a difficult decision and I don't envy the CD's, TO's, or clan leaders that are involved in the decisions. I understand in other years some ended up being too laid back and didn't enforce rules at all, but I still personally support the overall concept of taking it case by case, and applying best judgement.

[Caymanmew]

Hey all,

Firstly, we want to be clear that LHDD does officially have a one-game forfeit for this war and that decision will not be overturned. The way this works is we deduct 1 point from LHDD's final score and add that to ACES. So if the final score is LHDD 29, ACES 26, that would become LHDD 28, ACES 27.

During CC11 and CC12 there were a few clans that broke the 6 week deadline, but the rules were not enforced. Most of this never became public knowledge, but only known to the clans directly involved. Some clans were asked to be the ones to decide if a punishment SHOULD be issued, and then asked how severe a punishment. Clans didn't want to be the ones to decide this, and they should never have been asked to. It is the job of the Touramement Organizers to enforce tournament rules. The 6 week deadline is not a war rule, it is a tournament rule. CC6 is when the current wording of the 6 week (7 week in CC6) deadline started. It was always written the same through CC12.

CC6

If a clan fails to meet the 7 week deadline one game will be forfeited for every day they fail to get all games started. If after 1 week there are still games that have not started, the clan will be disqualified.

Participating clans are solely and totally responsible for meeting the 7 week deadline. There will be no mercy. Not meeting the deadline will have consequences.

CC7, CC8, CC9, CC10, CC11, CC12

If a clan fails to meet the 6 week deadline one game will be forfeited for every day they fail to get all games started. If after 1 week there are still games that have not started, the clan will be disqualified.

Participating clans are solely and totally responsible for meeting the 6 week deadline. There will be no mercy. Not meeting the deadline will have consequences.

So, the 6 week (7 week) deadline for Conquerors Cup since CC6 has always been clearly stated along with the punishment. What the CD department changed for CC13 was the wording of the 6 week deadline to not only make it more clear, but so that clans would KNOW that the rules were going to be enforced.

There is much animosity in the thread, which is understandable; this is a tough situation. Please understand that we, as TO's, have to enforce the rules as they were written and agreed upon by the clans participating. If we pick and choose when we enforce or don't enforce certain rules, it would show favouritism and ultimately take away some of the integrity of the event.

Cayman and groovysmurf

[Donelladan]

This is just such a case. You see enforcement of deadlines as something that might drive people away. On the other hand, I get tired of getting my games sent to me in a timely manner, accepting them, and then (more and more) waiting a week for the other team to join. Or, just as annoying, having OUR games and teams sitting there on display for about a week while we wait for the other team to do the same. Who's to say which of us is more entitled to our frustrations?

That's a very interesting take.
But I would like to point out that having the current deadline in place doesn't really help your issue with having to wait one full week - and sometimes more to have the games filled, because the deadline only care about having all games creating within SIX weeks, no one seem to care if a clan wait more than one week to fill away game, even if it's the 2nd set.
Because, you see I was curious how it was possible no clan was ever late in the event for even a couple of minutes, and it turns out, basically every other clan wars they decide to exchange set 2 on the 4th week, and have it filled on the 5th week, so that if a clan take more than one week to fill the away games, there are still within the 6th weeks hard deadline.
And I can tell you many many clans failed to fill their game wihtin one week after exchanging them.
I've checked, and from what I've seen in this event, for the 2nd set, only for 3 wars people weren't late.
For all other wars, they did took more than one week to fill their away games for the 2nd set. But because they exchanged games on week 4, and not week 5, the CD don't care.
So see, even with the enforced rule we currently have, you would still have wait more than one week most of the time.

Which make the rule even more useless imho, because the rule doesn't even try to make a fair match between the two clans that are facing each other.
The rule is really only here to make sure we get the event going at a fast pace. But clans being late to fill games regarding to the other clan and to the schedule they announced themselves, that always happened in that event.

So, the 6 week (7 week) deadline for Conquerors Cup since CC6 has always been clearly stated along with the punishment. What the CD department changed for CC13 was the wording of the 6 week deadline to not only make it more clear, but so that clans would KNOW that the rules were going to be enforced.

Totally agree, the rule was always here - and was never applied that harshly before.
how did you change the wording in the CC13 to make it more clear ? It's the same rule. What you did was writing it in bold blue, and adding an extra rule that we have 5 weeks to create the home games.
Nowhere in the CC13 do you specify that the enforcing of the rule will be any different than before, when it was not enforced.

Rule of CC12 says

Participating clans are solely and totally responsible for meeting the 6 week deadline. There will be no mercy. Not meeting the deadline will have consequences.

Rule of CC13 says

If the games are created on time and the away clan fails to fill those games within the 6 week deadline, they will forfeit one game for every day they are late in filling. If after 1 week there are still games that have not been started, the offending clan will be disqualified.

I fail to see how it's more clear.

And I am not saying that you should NOT enforce it. I am just saying, c'mon 5 hours ! If a clan is one day late, give him the penalty yes.
If it's just you checking the game at 0:00 because you didn't go to be early, but next time you go to bed early and check the game at 9:00 AM we don't get the penalty. Then no I don't think it's a good way to do.
I think at 0:03 you should've send us a message : "you're late fill it asap - next time I check you get a penalty", and trust me games would have been filled within the hour, or better even, just check in the morning instead of checking in the middle of the night, and for sure game would've already been filled. no story.

If we pick and choose when we enforce or don't enforce certain rules, it would show favouritism and ultimately take away some of the integrity of the event.

Showing favoritism would be an issue indeed.
But you checked our games, as mentioned before 3 minutes after the deadlines.
Are you checking every other clan war that fast ?
Because if you check for some clan - let say 1 hour late, and for some clan 8h late.
Then, ultimately that would take away some of the integrity of the event, wouldn't it ?
Hope you see what you've now committed to do : I do hope that every clan wars has been checked within 1 h of the deadline and that's going to be that way for next wars as well.

[rockfist]

If it’s the away clan filling games, you don’t have to check at the deadline, you can just look at the time stamp for when they started and if they started late, apply the penalty.

[detlef]

Don, I wasn't going to comment again because I thought I'd made my stance clear. But since you walled me, I'll show you the courtesy of responding. Once again, I'm personally not thrilled by this, nor was I angling for this ruling. That, btw, is the prevailing sentiment I got from the others in the clan when we discussed it. Trust me, it was NOT a chorus of guys yelling "Make them pay!"

However, I'm not a fan of what seems to becoming a trend of clans pushing it when it comes to creating and filling games. So I'm not going to be very bothered if someone gets popped for going over. That's really it. And I'm not really interested in debating the details of it.

[groovysmurf]

I just want to clarify that Cayman sent you guys the PM at 1:03am, NOT 12:03am. Perhaps your time settings are not correct if you are seeing it as 00:03 rather than 01:03. Daylight Savings Time is in effect right now. I know it's not a big deal, but since it's been mentioned multiple times, I figured I would clarify.

And of course we don't sit around and wait for clans to not meet the deadline.

If it’s the away clan filling games, you don’t have to check at the deadline, you can just look at the time stamp for when they started and if they started late, apply the penalty.

Exactly.


Clans are free to negotiate the dates for the war. The only thing we ask is that all games be made within 5 weeks and all games started within 6. If you choose to negotiate a schedule that pushes the date to the very last day, you should be vigilant about all games starting on time. Can you imagine what would happen if we just said "you're right, 5 hours is nothing"...next year we'd have people being late 16 and saying "it's still not a day"...pretty soon, "they're only 2 weeks late, what's the big deal". It's a slippery slope.

Upholding punishments and enforcing rules is NOT fun for us, but we do it because it's what we SAID we would do. Ignoring would just make us hypocrites.

[Donelladan]

I just want to clarify that Cayman sent you guys the PM at 1:03am, NOT 12:03am. Perhaps your time settings are not correct if you are seeing it as 00:03 rather than 01:03.

Noted. Our mistake.

" we do it because it's what we SAID we would do." -> please point me to where you said you would.
Cayman said it himself the rule was always the same since CC6, still people were late and no penalty was applied.

You said it changed in the CC13 but I don't see where you said it'd changed.

Btw - since the rules are enforced since CC13 explained me why some still get a pass in CC13 ?

viewtopic.php?f=442&t=239063#p5277487

Deadline was

The 6 weeks for round 1 start on Jan 15th and end on Feb 26th. All games must be created by Feb 19th, in accordance with the 5 week game creation deadline.

2nd question.
Why was this deadline changed ?

A^ has officially defeated RET.

A^ will now face REP in the next round. The 6-week deadline starts this Sunday, March 24th, and goes until Sunday, May 5th.

Edit:
6-week deadline extended to May 9th, 5 week deadline moved forward 4 days as well to May 2nd

[Donelladan]

Sent by PM as well to all concerned parties.

If the games are created on time and the away clan fails to fill those games within the 6 week deadline, they will forfeit one game for every day they are late in filling (this means the games are actually started, not just invites sent). If after 1 week there are still games that have not been started, the offending clan will be disqualified.

The rule is saying we will forfeit one game
What Caymannew said is not correct :

Firstly, we want to be clear that LHDD does officially have a one-game forfeit for this war and that decision will not be overturned. The way this works is we deduct 1 point from LHDD's final score and add that to ACES. So if the final score is LHDD 29, ACES 26, that would become LHDD 28, ACES 27.

ACES should have picked up one of the games we were late and that game should've been forfeited.
That's also how penalties were handled in the past.

List of games that we were late to join is :

Game 23310668 Feudal Epic
Game 23310687 Vancouver
Game 23310676 WWII Europe
Game 23310675 Mogul double
Game 23310692 Philadelphia
Game 23310706 labyrinthe
Game 23310707 Eurasia
Game 23310715 Classic Tie breaker


I request that they pick in the next 24h so that games are not any more advanced that they already are, which is already quite a lot.

[Chariot of Fire]

"and was never applied that harshly before"

CC1 TOFU lost to KORT despite winning more games as I had inadvertently joined one too many games and we were handed a 21 game penalty! So let's not talk about being harsh in this instance.

Six weeks is an eternity and there really can be little excuse for being late. I'm sorry Don if you feel it's unjustified but in my own personal opinion (not that of ACES) the mods had to make a decision based on the rules and in that respect I think Cay & Smurf have done an excellent job to explain their rationale as kindly and clearly as one could expect.

“Il n’y a pas un accident; il est le sort mal nommé” [Napoleon]

[GoranZ]

Or maybe everything in life isn't about Conquer Club ???

For most of us real life takes precedence over CC.

I'll answer for myself ; I'm trying to set up a business + I'm gonna become a dad for the first time late September. So in my to-do list, CC comes (minimum) third, and a deadline is the opportunity not to pile up something more at the shortest term.

Congrats on the little one and good luck with the business.

If you haven't noticed yet, more and more people are leaving the site and less and less are hardcore users, so being close to a deadline is also the opportunity to make sure everybody will be able to take its turns, to pick the right players to avoid lots of sittings, which has also been an issue for both clans this war (you just have to read some logs and you'll see the number of turns sitted; life sometimes strikes hard and there is nothing you can do about it...)

It is also an opportunity for the site to adapt to having less and less players, and less and less functional clans. In my eyes having unfair decisions(like in this case) is the fastest way for the site to get to 0.

Most of the players in almost all major clans are on the border of retirement(there is little value difference between having 4 or 5 major titles especially when the site is rapidly dying).

[GoranZ]

There is much animosity in the thread, which is understandable; this is a tough situation. Please understand that we, as TO's, have to enforce the rules as they were written and agreed upon by the clans participating. If we pick and choose when we enforce or don't enforce certain rules, it would show favouritism and ultimately take away some of the integrity of the event.

What about the integrity of the site?

Its not a matter how harsh will the enforced rule be, but how big of an impact will have. If it leads to different outcome of an event then you guys as TO's have an issue.
If the final score LHDD 28 - ACES 27 is switch to LHDD 27 - ACES 28 it will probably be offending for some clans. There is huge difference between winning by 1 point and switching the winner.

[Caymanmew]

I just want to clarify that Cayman sent you guys the PM at 1:03am, NOT 12:03am. Perhaps your time settings are not correct if you are seeing it as 00:03 rather than 01:03.

Noted. Our mistake.

" we do it because it's what we SAID we would do." -> please point me to where you said you would.
Cayman said it himself the rule was always the same since CC6, still people were late and no penalty was applied.

You said it changed in the CC13 but I don't see where you said it'd changed.

Btw - since the rules are enforced since CC13 explained me why some still get a pass in CC13 ?

viewtopic.php?f=442&t=239063#p5277487

Deadline was

The 6 weeks for round 1 start on Jan 15th and end on Feb 26th. All games must be created by Feb 19th, in accordance with the 5 week game creation deadline.

2nd question.
Why was this deadline changed ?

A^ has officially defeated RET.

A^ will now face REP in the next round. The 6-week deadline starts this Sunday, March 24th, and goes until Sunday, May 5th.

Edit:
6-week deadline extended to May 9th, 5 week deadline moved forward 4 days as well to May 2nd

For GON, we were dealing with so much drama from GON at the time because of stuff some of their clan members were posting in the public forum, in games, and in PM's to the members of AWOL. I still have my inbox from then, but I don't see any PM's to GON regarding the missed game, although there are many PM's about their interactions with AWOL. I suspect we did not have the mental energy to argue with them anymore, after dealing with the drama from the past weeks. I know that sounds bad, but honestly, I can't remember exactly what happened except that it was an extremely stressful time. When it was reported we gave them 24 hours and they joined so we didn't punish them. We believe we made an error in not punishing them, and we will be firm not to allow other stressors to affect our implementation of the rules again.

For the A^ vs REP war, after Cheffed passed, REP requested a 4-day delay on creating their games to allow them to grieve, so I decided to push the 6 weeks back 4 days as a courtesy.

[donche64]

Congrats on the little one and good luck with the business...

Thanks for the kind words

[i-andrei]

17-14
looking at 7-5 for LHDD in open games with 12 undecided. Might look at them wrong but it seems like LHDD would need 5 of even ones to go their way to win it.