Presidential Debate: Biden vs. Trump

[jusplay4fun]

Trump and Biden cram final prep and ready attack lines ahead of next week's debate
As the June 27 event nears, the Biden team's approach is "like cramming for a final," while the Trump campaign says it's focused on informal policy sessions.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/trump-biden-cram-final-prep-ready-attack-lines-ahead-weeks-debate-rcna158117

One is secluding himself at a mountainside retreat with a tight circle of advisers, poring over briefing binders, honing attack lines and bracing for personal smears. The other is workshopping responses and retorts with vice presidential hopefuls, sharpening policy lines while working to rein in his bombastic rhetoric.

In some ways, aides to President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump describe similar goals heading into next Thursday’s presidential debate: painting their opponent as presiding over disorder and wholly unfit for office.

For two men who have been circling each other rhetorically for the past four years, the debate hosted by CNN in Atlanta amounts to a moment of high consequence. Both candidates are aware of the stakes, officials in both campaigns say, as they huddle with their teams to prepare attacks, form rebuttals and frame the choice of November’s election.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/20/politics/debate-biden-trump-preparations-president/index.html

[bigtoughralf]

What do people get out of watching these silly debates? Is anyone genuinely watching them because they think it'll help them make up their mind about which GOPDNC party candidate to vote for?

[Lonous]

Its mostly just pure theatrics.
95% of American voters already know who they are voting for.
But to be fair those 5% usually are the margin of error for the polling.

If the debates do deliver anything these days, its a gaffe or a slip of the tongue with a candidate revealing more of their actual mindset than they intended to for the viewers.
However they rarely go off script.

One such example would be Hillary Clinton in 2016 with her debate vs Trump.
She painted herself into a corner trying to look tough against Russia when asked a hypothetical question, but inadvertently gave an answer that would have caused a war.

There will be no surprises with Trump and Biden.
They will exchange insults of 'felon' and 'senile' for 90 minutes.

[jusplay4fun]

So let me get this right: Biden has been at Camp David since...Friday...??... to prepare for the debate 6 days away, while....

Trump, among other things, is going to different places to campaign?
(I assume he discusses some ideas for the debate at some point with his staff.)

Biden can ONLY do debate prep for SIX DAYS? I do not give me "Biden is running the country" argument; his aides, staff, and various Secretaries do that already.

[Dukasaur]

So let me get this right: Biden has been at Camp David since...Friday...??... to prepare for the debate 6 days away, while....

Trump, among other things, is going to different places to campaign?
(I assume he discusses some ideas for the debate at some point with his staff.)

Biden can ONLY do debate prep for SIX DAYS? I do not give me "Biden is running the country" argument; his aides, staff, and various Secretaries do that already.

Trump doesn't have to do any prep. Saying "blah blah blah, I am bigly better than anyone else, blah blah immigrants {random string of insults}, harump harump Deep State robbed me, blah blah blah I have the best words, gurgle gurgle" really doesn't require a lot of practice.

[jusplay4fun]

Trump will have to be disciplines to avoid major mistakes, like

1) being too aggressive;

2) being seen as rude, cutting off Biden;

3) making a gaffe;

4) misstating concepts, ideas, or policies;

5) spending too much time on why he lost in 2020;

6) being irked by Biden calling him a felon** (should be easy to deflect) or a loser (the real danger, imo);

7) ** avoid being too aggressive to blame Biden for his NYC conviction.

8 ) There are more blunders that could be costly to Trump, like confirming charges of being insensitive or a racist, or.....blah blah blan......

9) I am sure there are many more mistakes Trump can make that I have not listed here.

[bigtoughralf]

Would those be mistakes? Half of them look like central pillars of his election campaign.

I like your 'don't make a gaffe' advice though. Simply don't make any mistakes and you'll go down really well with the audience!

[Votanic]

The debate is going to be so hilarious, ... fortunately though, it shouldn't have any effect on the election.

[jusplay4fun]

Would those be mistakes? Half of them look like central pillars of his election campaign.

I like your 'don't make a gaffe' advice though. Simply don't make any mistakes and you'll go down really well with the audience!

How many gaffes can Biden make before it is a DISASTER? 10? 20??

[jusplay4fun]

Let get some insights from the REAL Experts, the bookies:

Joe Biden's Chances of Making Gaffes During Debate, According to Oddsmaker

The number of gaffes likely to be committed by President Joe Biden during this Thursday's presidential debate with Donald Trump is just one of nearly four dozen bets available, according to new odds from an international bookmaker.

The presidential hopefuls each vying for their second term in a rematch of the 2020 election will come face-to-face on June 27 at the CNN network studio in Atlanta in the critical battleground state of Georgia, as part of a live event that will feature no audience and new rules compared to the last time the pair debated roughly four years ago.

The Panama-headquartered oddsmaker BetOnline showed as of Monday afternoon that Biden's "mix-ups" are currently projected at over/under 2.5. No such bet exists for Trump.

"There's a high level of interest and wagering on this debate," Adam Burns, sportsbook manager for BetOnline, told Newsweek via email on Monday. "We have Game 7 of the Stanley Cup, Game 3 of the College World Series, and the NBA Draft this week. There will be more money bet on the debate than any of those sporting events individually. And here's the real kicker: For the election itself there will be more money wagered on it than this year's Super Bowl."

BetOnline is offering 47 prop bets for interested parties, due to the election representing the 47th presidency.

Other available bets include who will win the debate, which has Trump at -150 (60 percent probability); whether the candidates will shake hands before or after the debate (+700 or 12.5 percent probability); viewership (over/under 80.5 million); the number of Trump "non-facts" stated by Trump (over/under 15.5); and the first candidate to interrupt a moderator (Trump is at -250 or 71.4 percent probability).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-biden-s-chances-of-making-gaffes-during-debate-according-to-oddsmaker/ar-BB1oOyho?ocid=winp2fptaskbar&cvid=0f5446d330f445d381b8b20a44eb22d5&ei=18

[HitRed]

And the odds of the moderator interrupting Trump?

[mookiemcgee]

And the odds of the moderator interrupting Trump?

Mods have the ability to cut microphones after answering time expires for this debate, so I think odds would be very low.

[jusplay4fun]

What surprised me is how quickly the liberal press has turned on Old Joe after the Debate and called for him to step down as the candidate of the Democrat Party. Even that bastion of liberalism MSNBC did so before midnight of the debate. Now I read that the New York Times editorial leaders did so, too.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/biden-election-debate-trump.html

NY Times calls on Biden to drop out of 2024 presidential race ‘to serve his country’ after abysmal debate performance

The New York Times editorial board called on President Biden to step aside as the presumptive Democratic nominee in the 2024 presidential race Friday, one day after his abysmal performance in a debate against Donald Trump.

While insisting that Biden, 81, had been an “admirable president,” the liberal Grey Lady concluded the incumbent appeared on the debate stage as “the shadow of a great public servant” and would be engaging in a “reckless gamble” by continuing his candidacy.

https://nypost.com/2024/06/28/us-news/ny-times-calls-on-biden-to-drop-out-of-2024-presidential-race-to-serve-his-country/

Now I hate that
1) Trump overstates and exaggerates incessantly;
2) Trump's exaggerations lead to LIES ("the most ever...." & "... like no one has ever seen.....") and that
3) he not answer the question posed (more than once).

For the few undecided voters, Trump did not ease their concerns about January 6 or accepting election results.

But Trump was much quicker mentally than Biden and was much more disciplined and patient than in other Presidential debates. Even a softball question given to Biden about Abortion, one of his KEY issues, was totally botched by Biden. Pitiful. The debate descended into name calling and trading of insults. Neither one significantly dealt with any issues.

If this is the BEST we can and should expect of Biden after ONE ENTIRE WEEK of preparation, Biden needs to drop out of the campaign NOW. I agree with the NY Times on this point.

Biden was given two minutes for a closing statement, one he could have easily prepared for. He starts talking about "fair taxes" and then mumbles into a mess for TWO minutes. Now Trump did not do that much better, doing his usual launch of insults, but at least he sounded much more coherent and ended strong.

Somewhat surprisingly, Biden sounded very strong in the few soundbites I heard from his NC election gathering earlier today. Where was THAT Joe Biden during the debate?????

[jusplay4fun]

More negative news and fallout from the Debate one week ago:

Trump Widens Lead After Biden’s Debate Debacle, Times/Siena Poll Finds

Donald Trump is ahead of President Biden by six percentage points among likely voters in a new national survey. Overall, 74 percent of voters view Mr. Biden as too old for the job, an uptick since the debate.

Donald J. Trump’s lead in the 2024 presidential race has widened after President Biden’s fumbling debate performance last week, as concerns that Mr. Biden is too old to govern effectively rose to new heights among Democrats and independent voters, a new poll from The New York Times and Siena College showed.

Mr. Trump now leads Mr. Biden 49 percent to 43 percent among likely voters nationally, a three-point swing toward the Republican from just a week earlier, before the debate. It is the largest lead Mr. Trump has recorded in a Times/Siena poll since 2015. Mr. Trump leads by even more among registered voters, 49 percent to 41 percent.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/poll-debate-biden-trump.html

Will Biden quit? Should Biden quit?
Quit His campaign?
QUIT as President NOW, because he is UNFIT for the Office?

The pressure builds, even among some Democrats, for Biden to do so.

During the Debate, many Americans had the opportunity to witness first hand-hand, with NO editing, with NO filters, no notes, no Telepromters, the mental decline that is Joe Biden. And it was on a left-leaning, Biden supporting network, CNN.

BOTTOM LINE: The Debate last week was a DISASTER for the Biden campaign.

(BTW: And this thread can be merged with the thread saxi started on the same Debate topic. That is fine with me.)

[jonesthecurl]

Biden's performance was obviously disappointing. But trump's lies, obfuscations, and completely ignoring the questions probably won him no new fans. One can hope.

[jusplay4fun]

Biden's performance was obviously disappointing. But trump's lies, obfuscations, and completely ignoring the questions probably won him no new fans. One can hope.

Polls show a small "bump" (increase) for Trump after the Debate.

Trump was not the only one to ignore the question posed. Trump tends to use hyperbole LOTS and some of these have been labeled as lies. Some would call them obfuscation. One lie that I distinctly recall (without looking anything up) Trump said was (something close to) "everyone supported returning the abortion issue to the States." Not so.

I have read that Biden said lies, too. One early analysis showed Trump won that battle, 3v2, for the number of lies that were fact checked.

here is a "Copy and Paste" (that some decry as pointless)

Former President Donald Trump repeated his nonsensical claim that “every legal scholar” wanted Roe v. Wade overruled, thereby rescinding women’s constitutional right to end unwanted pregnancy the Supreme Court had recognized in 1973. It reflects his effort to both take credit for ending Roe while distancing himself from its practical impacts.

Academic views of Roe were divided, as they are on many legal issues, and most Americans disapproved of the 2022 decision to overrule the precedent--a 5-4 decision made possible with the votes of three Trump-appointed justices. Trump characterized the 2022 decision as ushering in a harmonious era where each state could find its own equilibrium regarding abortion regulation, from outright bans to leaving decisions over pregnancy to women and their doctors. In fact, the 2022 decision created a patchwork of laws and created uncertainty over myriad related issues, including the future availability of abortion pills from mail-order pharmacies, that already have gotten a first look from the Supreme Court.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/biden-trump-first-presidential-debate-2024-election/card/trump-claims-every-legal-scholar-wanted-roe-v-wade-overruled-rnIxXjQfSQOGaIL5V7UF

and Biden's claims:

Biden made at least nine false or misleading claims in the debate. He used false numbers while describing two of his key Medicare policies, falsely claimed that no US troops had been killed on his watch, repeated his usual misleading figure about billionaires’ tax rates, baselessly claimed that Trump wants to eliminate Social Security, falsely said that the unemployment rate was 15% when he took office, inaccurately said that the Border Patrol union had endorsed him before clarifying that he was talking about agents’ support for the border bill he had backed, and exaggerated Trump’s 2020 comments about the possibility of treating Covid-19 by injecting disinfectant.

Here is a detailed fact check from CNN’s reporting team of some of those claims.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/fact-checking-the-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html
This article gives a good summary of the facts checked; it is lengthy and rather thorough, for those who want to "get into the weeds" of ALL that.

Overall, there was too much "trash-talking" (easy to do) and little discussion of policy supported by facts. Neither really said how they would improve the country and their vision of the future. Trump did manage to slip in "Make America Great Again" (very rushed) at the end of his 2 minute summary/closing statement. As I posted earlier, the last half hour descended into a round of personal attacks with little of substance stated. And that is when ignoring the question asked became paramount by both Biden and Trump.

As far as Biden's last two minute summary/closing statement: Biden made a mess of it. For this Biden needed ONE week to prepare for that rambling and rather nonsensical statement?

[Pack Rat]

President Biden did not take 2 full weeks to practice his poor debate skills. He was traveling to Europe twice to reinforce our alliance.

Let's not forget Trump's ability to lie more than 30 times in the 90 minute debate. Both did horribly!

[jusplay4fun]

President Biden did not take 2 full weeks to practice his poor debate skills. He was traveling to Europe twice to reinforce our alliance.

Let's not forget Trump's ability to lie more than 30 times in the 90 minute debate. Both did horribly!

Biden LAST travelled 12 days before the debate. I guess that was NOT enough recovery time from jet lag for poor OLD Joe. How much more time did HE need? Another month? Let's go, feeble OLD Joe Brandon.

Yes, both did horrible and both LIED. What do you expect from politicians?