The Werewolves of Miller's Hollow Wolves win

[Loose Canon]

Yes WTF and WWF - think about it.

[Ewebasher]

I sense someone doesn't want to lose their immunity...

[degaston]

Yes WTF and WWF - think about it.

Oh - I forgot who you were.

[*Pixar*]

I'm 100% Charle is a Werewolf

Vote: Extreme Ways

How do you figure? Is this something that should be voted for or swang use his ability?

[degaston]

I'm 100% Charle is a Werewolf

Vote: Extreme Ways

How do you figure? Is this something that should be voted for or swang use his ability?

Or is LC claiming to be the seer?
That's an interesting combo, though having an unkillable cop seems pretty broken.

[Votanic]

I'm 100% Charle is a Werewolf

Vote: Extreme Ways

Charle is a werewolf, but you're voting for EW?
WTF???

Yes I agree, this is now another crazy post that needs an explanation from LC.
(FPed by several people)
@LC: Please try to explain why you say Charle is 100% wolf but you want to vote E.W. (who is confirmed town).
At first I thought you were saying that Chale voted to lynch E.W., but I find no record of that.

But first, let me unpack the events of the end of yesterday and last night.
Four deaths at the end of yesterday but none during the night.

I really can't explain Max's behavior... Most likely just notoriously bad play, unless he was somehow possessed or mind-controlled...

Also: Why was Parked's role replaced by Ragian, while mpolo's role was just mod-killed. Was the Parked role more essential to the game?

Of course, I had a very rough night last night. It seems I got up in the middle of the night ranting. Sorry about that, but you must understand that I was in a decaffeinated state of shock, after metaphorically witnessing town-terrorist Maxleod simultaneously fly two separate aircraft (don't as me how) into the Town's twin churchtowers causing unprecedented (and hopefully unrepeatable) devestation to Town... Also three Town power roles gone: Sheriff, Judge, and Hunter (though the last was being mismanaged anyway). I still have more to say about all that, but for now I'll just let it rest.

[Votanic]

Okay, I get it.
Of course, LC is voting for somebody unlynchable, ..duh.

Two possibilities:

1. LC is the Barkeep and the Seer (impressive).
Since he had no nee dto investigate himself, he investigated Charle and found a wolf.
If so, then we need to lynch Charle.

2. LC is the Barkeep and a Wolf (horrific)
He is trying to get Town to lynch another townie, Charle.
If so, we will then know that LC is lying when Charle turns town and try to get him vigged...
But it might be too late becuase the wolves will try to kill Swang the Barber tonight (Night 3)
The Defender can try to protect Swang again, but there is a possibility that the defender might not be able to protect the same player two nights in a row...

@ The Defender: If it is possible, please protect Swang tonight as well. Just let the wolves kill me. I am more than willing to live and die for Town.''

@ Charle: If you think it is safe to do so, you should consider claiming now

[degaston]

@ Charle: If you think it is safe to do so, you should consider claiming now

I think LC should claim first. It appears he's made a soft claim anyway, so he may as well spill his guts.

[Votanic]

Flavor Break:
One of my favorite werewolf scenes:
Assault at The Battery, from Wolfen (1981)

[swang918]

I think a good place to start today is to look at the Lynch votes on Max. There has to be at least one wolf in there.
Fusi and DDS are dead so that leaves
Degaston
Charle
Thor
Pixar
Ragian
Vot

Vot is town barring some ridiculous sacrifice gambit too silly to consider. Ragian was urging caution on the Max wagon even as it was gaining steam and only jumped on in the end after Max inexplicably refused to claim. Same with Pixar to a lesser extent. Doesn't clear them but I consider Ragian and Pixar slightly less likely than the other Max votes to be scum.
Hard to read much or anything into Charle or Thor's votes. But jumping in the middle of a town Lynch wagon without saying much is a good way to stay under the radar while advancing the wolf cause, if one is a wolf.
But I am most suspicious of degaston for initiating and then driving the Max wagon. I think dega would be aggressive enough to initiate a wagon if he was a wolf.

Finally, Devante and Sonic both had voted Max but unvoted. I think the unvotes make both of them townish to me.

[swang918]

if Loose is seer we might as well just call the game for town. But I suspect his Charle call is similar to his scumread on me in the Tick...which I still maintain was pure luck.

[Votanic]

if Loose is seer we might as well just call the game for town. But I suspect his Charle call is similar to his scumread on me in the Tick...which I still maintain was pure luck.

It is so inappropriate to label a scumread as 100% unless one has real intel... but a wolfplay would at least be appropriately innapropriate to do so.

Yes, I agree that LC should claim.
Of course, if he is a Wolf, he will lie... but he has nothing to lose by telling the truth if he is Town.

[degaston]

I think a good place to start today is to look at the Lynch votes on Max. There has to be at least one wolf in there.

There might be wolves there, but there doesn't "have" to be. Wolves can choose to stay off of a town lynch to avoid the stigma of having helped lynch a townie. Townies don't know, so they have to go with their gut, and they make mistakes.

But I am most suspicious of degaston for initiating and then driving the Max wagon. I think dega would be aggressive enough to initiate a wagon if he was a wolf

I'm not saying this proves anything, but if I was a wolf, it would have been pretty easy for me to join one of the many votes that were already out there. Some of them had to have been town. There was no reason for me to choose Max other than I looked at his posts and thought they looked scummy. I never claimed to be "100%" sure about it. Max had no good reason not to claim Hunter. If he had, we probably wouldn't have lynched him.

[SoN!c]

Can somebody explain this please: DDS was "biten" but DDS died on D2.. (before N2 wolf attack). That means the bite (the wolf attack) took place on N1? So why would the wolves attack Ragian1 and DDS on N1?

Or could Strike already bit him on D1 before Strike his lynch? It would explain DDS his "dive" (if he was converted to wolf between wanting the sheriff job and the "dive") but it doesn't make any sense that Strike (the AWF) would be able to bite on D1 already? - the rulebook says the AWF's bite can only take place after "the other wolves have fallen asleep" so that is clearly a night action. So if not the AWF on D1 how is it possible DDS got biten? W.T.A.F.?

Deg? What is your idea here?

[Votanic]

Time to organize with another round of reads from the Player List:
A third of the original players are gone. We are down to 12.
1.
2.
3. Charle: Plays low-key, and doesn't do anything obviously scummy. This is decent play if Town, but even more wise if Scum.
Still, he is now being accused (100%) by LC of being scum and thus has been thrust into the limelight. A claim seems likely, and a lynch (or a vig...) is possible.
4. Votanic: The old Town Confessor. Weary and worried for Town. I will do all I can while still here.
5.
6. Extreme Ways: He is Town. Traf told me and I told you all. On da 3 he says he will play with more initiative. If only he had hi the ground running on Day 1 with that attitude.
7. Swang918: The Barber, possibly Town but it would be great to prove this. The next time Town has a reasonably sure wolf in their grasp. It would be wise to let Swang vig him instead of doing a typical lynch. Also, such an exposed vigilante role is a tempting wold target, that is if he is Town. We might presume (but do not know) that the Defender is protecting him at night.
8. Devante: He is the Lord, a public role that could screw up Town if it fell into lycanthropic paws. Playstyle has been mostly coasting. No strong evidence of alignment either way.
9.
10.*Pixar*: Another player who posts occasionally and doesn't appear too scummy... but who knows? However, his brush-up with Maxleod doesn't seem indicative of anything except Maxleod playing like a freak.
11.SoN!c: His play is a drag. He gets away with it because the last two games he was (bad) Town. However, if/when he is Scum, he could ride his schtick to victory if everybody continues to not take the damage it causes seriously.
12. Ewebasher: A new player , moderately quiet, which could be for any of the usual reasons. In itself not overly alignment indicative, but Town lets quiet players coast at its own peril.
13.
14. Loose Canon: The Barkeep is ap public role, that will be valuable at endgame for whichever side that he is on... and we are already more than a third of the way there... Establishing his Towniness may have happened to day, as the Seer has not spoken up to say LC is a wolf... except in an exasperating twist, LC is now gmaking us think that he may also be the Seer (or whatever the Detective/Cop role is called here)!!! We await his claim, which should be completely safe for him if he is Town as the wolves cannot kill him. Besides, if he is a wolf, the true Seer should have outed him by now. Right?
15. Thor60: The quietest player around. The posting difference between him and the mod-killed mpolo is only a few posts but that is enough. His most notable post said he was keeping his head down and his eyes open. That could mean something role-related... or it could just imply the learning curve of a new player.
16. Ragian: Now playing his second role in the game. Was the role replaced because it was a wolf or power role, or just because Ragian wanted back in the game. His playstyle is probing and dialectic, but whether this will lead to a breakthrough remains to be seen.
17.Degaston: Another player brought in as a (necessary?) replacement. Overall he asks the right questions and gives an effective Townish presentation. Of course, the best players can do this while still being total Scum... but no strong evidence of that.
18.

[Votanic]

Can somebody explain this please: DDS was "biten" but DDS died on D2.. (before N2 wolf attack). That means the bite (the wolf attack) took place on N1? So why would the wolves attack Ragian1 and DDS on N1?

Or could Strike already bit him on D1 before Strike his lynch? It would explain DDS his "dive" (if he was converted to wolf between wanting the sheriff job and the "dive") but it doesn't make any sense that Strike (the AWF) would be able to bite on D1 already? - the rulebook says the AWF's bite can only take place after "the other wolves have fallen asleep" so that is clearly a night action. So if not the AWF on D1 how is it possible DDS got biten? W.T.A.F.?

Deg? What is your idea here?

@Traf: If that '(Biten)' after DDS's Town status is just a typo, would you let us know?

Another possibility: Could DDS have been bitten on Night 1 (by the Big Bad Wolf) and survived due to being protected by the Defender?
That doesn't really make sense because surviving a wolf attack would not imply even a slight modification to his Town affiliation.

[Votanic]

One other admittedly very minor point to consider:
In the original W.O.M.H. card game, the two lovers are chosen by another player with the role of Cupid (or Cupido).
So possibly one of the Town players is the Cupid, which is now basically the same thing as Vanilla.
Of course, it is also quite possible that Traf modified the game and just randomly selected the two lover roles himself.

At this point, I don't think the existence of the Cupid role will affect anything, so as I said before, a minor point at best.

[degaston]

Deg? What is your idea here?

At this point, I have no idea what it means, or how it could have happened.
It appears I was mistaken in thinking that the wolves targeted him last night, but I don't know what else to think about it.

FYI everyone, I found the rulebook in a searchable pdf form:
https://cdn.svc.asmodee.net/production-asmodeeca/uploads/2023/07/WerewolvesThePact_EN_Rules.pdf

[degaston]

Another possibility: Could DDS have been bitten on Night 1 (by the Big Bad Wolf) and survived due to being protected by the Defender?
That doesn't really make sense because surviving a wolf attack would not imply even a slight modification to his Town affiliation.

Plus, the AWF was dead before N1, so he should never have had the opportunity to bite.
Also: "The Defender does not protect against the Piper’s charm or the Cursed WolfFather’s infection."

[Charle]

Last night was indeed a huge loss for town. I am 100% town and have no problem to claim when the time is right. To lynch me will be just another loss for town, so please let me claim before you hammer, we should not loose unnecessary town lives.

I would really like to get a claim out of Loose, and I cannot understand why he doesn't do it. If he is town, doesn't matter if the role is important or not, the wolves cannot touch him and we as town will make sure he doesn't loose his powers. Obviously by refraining to claim, confirm him a wolf and his protection against Strike on day 1 before Vot's confession.

By voting EW immediately and point a lynch in my direction is obvious that he knows both of us are town and is forcing us to kill more town. If we do not get a claim out of Loose, my suggestion is that he should go and get a haircut.

[Charle]

The problem we have here is that we cannot get a claim from LC through a lynch vote, as we cannot vote for him. But nothing stop us to vote between ourselves for a visit to the barber (vote bold black). With 10 players left I guess we need 6 votes, so when we get to 4 votes, LC should claim, else Swang do his duty on 6 votes. If LC is town, he will claim else town is loosing 2 people if Swang is town as well.

Barber Vote - LC

[degaston]

I think we should give LC a little time to respond before we do anything drastic.

[Charle]

Yes absolutely, I would really like LC to at least give us a claim or any other positive response. We should try and protect town now seriously. There are 3 wolves and 7 townies left. (if there were 4 wolves at the start)

[SoN!c]

@Traf: what does "biten" mean exactly? I think we as players have the right to know?

A: Biten as in "biten and infected" (by the AWF and converted into werewolf)
or
B: Biten as in "biten by wolves but survived"
or
C: ?

[Loose Canon]

ok I'm seer

(fyi visited extreme first night)