Krazy Kingdoms [Quenched]

[plurple]

no games are currently in progress and kkfinal308 xml is loaded!

changes coded by plurple are a clearer game-end message when losing conditions are satisfied, correction of the aquatic bonus and n4 horde starting neutrals instead of n5.

ian.

thanks for this update let me know if anything else is needed for this

[Fuchsia tude]

on the beta site, the KKFinal308 xml has survived five standard, 2-player, auto-placement, sequential, escalating, chained, fog, non-trench mini-tournament games plus various others. no xml faults were evident.

in fog games, we know the three special features of the winner, but must glean what data we can about the loser from the game log. if such data sheds no further light on the loser, then we can impute 3/8 of a loss to each of the special features that the winner does not have.

although we cannot draw firm conclusions from the five mini-tournament games, best were dwellers (+4), undead (+2) and wizards (+2), while aquatic, barbarians, fanatics and miners were worst (-2), with a big caveat being that the game data on the beta site is often overwritten in part or in full, so that it's unreliable. what we can say is that the change in the horde starting neutral from n5 to n4 did not give a big advantage to barbarians. we already knew the other two xml changes to be satisfactory.

ian.

No surprise that Dwellers are the best. They've got a bonus nearly as good as Demonic or Cosmic, plus the ability to teleport around the map, like Barbarians and Demonic and Wizards can, and claim all their bonus terts once they take one, like Demonic and Wizards can; and they don't need to capture two of their bonus terts to unlock this ability like Wizards do, or kill a neutral stack like Barbarians and Demonic do.

I'm guessing a nerf of some sort is warranted for them. Let me know if you want an edit to the graphics to reflect this.

[plurple]

here is the xml with the auto-deploys on the starting locations

KKFinal309.xml

(71.03 KiB) Downloaded 489 times

[iancanton]

No surprise that Dwellers are the best. They've got a bonus nearly as good as Demonic or Cosmic, plus the ability to teleport around the map, like Barbarians and Demonic and Wizards can, and claim all their bonus terts once they take one, like Demonic and Wizards can; and they don't need to capture two of their bonus terts to unlock this ability like Wizards do, or kill a neutral stack like Barbarians and Demonic do.

I'm guessing a nerf of some sort is warranted for them. Let me know if you want an edit to the graphics to reflect this.

i'm not yet totally convinced about dwellers, so don't do anything yet!

there are some problems with loading the 309 xml, which is why u haven't seen any kingdom auto-deploys being applied yet on the beta site.

Saved the map with errors: Large: Large file not found, Small: Small file not found, Thumbnail: Thumbnail file not found,

ian.

[iancanton]

309 xml is loaded successfully to the beta site! this is the same as the 308 xml, except with +1 auto-deploy for each kingdom.

ian.

[Mad777]

@iancanton, do you foresee this map going “Live” and out of Beta before year end?

I have the Map Master tournament ongoing and may need to add this map once it’s going that route.

Let me know.

[iancanton]

i expect krazy kingdoms to be fully live before the year-end.

ian.

[Donelladan]

309 xml is loaded successfully to the beta site! this is the same as the 308 xml, except with +1 auto-deploy for each kingdom.

ian.

Since the map is in beta in the current website, can we expect the auto-deploy to be soon available on the regular site ?

It's quite a major change to the map imo, I'd like to try it here.
I am also on the beta site, but there is so few activity there that you can't really test a strategy on the map imho, that's why I'd like it here as well to be able to test against various opponent and in different settings to see influence of this change.

[Fuchsia tude]

Oh wow, I'd actually forgotten it was live on the main site as well as the beta CC.

[Donelladan]

For 1vs1, I find the +1 auto on the base to have no interest.
It's just so easy to avoid unblocking the base. And anyway one of the player got such a massive advantage in deploy quickly that the +1 auto deploy can't help you anyway.

I suspect it could be a bit more interesting in a multiplayer game, especially if it last longer. But not really a game changer.
Maybe if you'd increase it to a higher value then it would actually affect the outcome

[SoN!c]

Don is a French mastermind.

[agentcom]

on the beta site, we have confirmation in one game that horde starts with n4 neutrals instead of n5 and the barbarians player won.

in that game, the losing message was no longer holds A Non Special Feature Region, which is an improvement on no longer holds Only Special Features, as the latter is false.

ian.

What about a 0-troop bonus region that includes all non-SF regions called "any territory besides a Special Feature" so that loss message is "no longer holds any territory besides a Special Feature"

i expect krazy kingdoms to be fully live before the year-end.

ian.

How awesome!

[plurple]

on the beta site, we have confirmation in one game that horde starts with n4 neutrals instead of n5 and the barbarians player won.

in that game, the losing message was no longer holds A Non Special Feature Region, which is an improvement on no longer holds Only Special Features, as the latter is false.

ian.

What about a 0-troop bonus region that includes all non-SF regions called "any territory besides a Special Feature" so that loss message is "no longer holds any territory besides a Special Feature"

that is how it works that bonus is called: A Non Special Feature Region

[t4mcr53s2]

a complaint/suggestion I use Map tab and hover on new maps to understand connections and since so many of the "bordering" territories on this map are conditional the confusion i expect i and many other inexperienced KK players have gives an excessive disadvantage . although the key points these things out it could be more clear eg rahter than saying in the top arrow "the special features on the right only apply to you saying the special bonuses and movements as its only in me 12th or so time on the map that i understand only barbarians can attack the horde and only drellers get the cavern to cavern route
the "assault one another" for the double headed arrow text under the gnome added to my slow learning perhaps add " only if you are the right tribe (Species?)"
i realize this makes the map crowded
but alerting first time players how the map to how conditional things are would increase the chance of getting sencond time players

[300spartans]

To be completely honest I don't care for how the map plays but maybe that's because I lose on it. A bigger auto deploy is my suggestion. 1 troop don't help much when you gotta tackle a map of full of neutrals. It should be more like feudal or even city mogul lol

[Fuchsia tude]

To be completely honest I don't care for how the map plays but maybe that's because I lose on it. A bigger auto deploy is my suggestion. 1 troop don't help much when you gotta tackle a map of full of neutrals. It should be more like feudal or even city mogul lol

The difference is, in those, the starting location permanently borders the landing point, instead of (as here) that path closing as soon as you successfully attack. And not only that, in those it's a two-way border, rather than one-way as in this map. So increasing the deploy without changing anything else in this map would mean it would go from helping an early-knocked-out player get back into the game to giving them a huge benefit; and unlike in those maps, where you can reinforce out of the starting location all game long, here getting wiped from the main field is the only way you can access those troops (unless it's parachute mode), so it would mainly just serve to draw out the inevitable and make eliminating a player a long and tedious process.

The +1 deploy in Beta feels much better to me than the +0 on the live site, however!

[plurple]

Yeah i like the +1 auto deploy though not a game changer on 1vs1 i think it can really help in multi player

[lokisgal]

yes on the plus 1

[t4mcr53s2]

yes on 1+

[Donelladan]

To the people saying "yes on the +1", did you actually try it out on multiplayer ?

300spartans and I are saying the same thing -> the +1 isn't enough to change anything in 1vs1. If you've experienced otherwise, please share.

So increasing the deploy without changing anything else in this map would mean it would go from helping an early-knocked-out player get back into the game to giving them a huge benefit;

here getting wiped from the main field is the only way you can access those troops (unless it's parachute mode), so it would mainly just serve to draw out the inevitable and make eliminating a player a long and tedious process.

I don't understand how it can be at the same time "a huge benefit" and on the other hand, "only draw out the inevitable".

But I do think that's indeed, a +1 auto-deploy as we have now, would only draw out the inevitable.
And not only because those troops cannot be accessed unless you get cleared out of the map.
But also because there are HUGE deploy bonus available on the map, and a +1 auto cannot counter that.

To compare it with feudal epic as you did, on feudal epic you get a +5 auto, and the bonus you get from your area is just a +3/4, therefore the auto deploy is meaningful.
Here it's a +1 deploy, but often just take one region get you a +2, and after taking 3/4 regions you often have a +6 deploy.
And because the map is small, and all the extra connection path you get with special feature, you quickly will encounter your opponent (1vs1 situation), therefore you'll wipe out of the board, and have so much deploy that it doesn't matter that he was able to get autodeploy for 3/4 turns it's over.

And imo, same goes for multiplayer, let's say you hide and stack for like 10 turns, then with the auto +1 and your +3 deploy you get a "massive" 40 troops, which imo won't be able to do anything you to help you, unless people on the board really have been going hard at it without anyone dominating.

Side note: I'd be willing to try some multiplayer games on the beta site. I'll open some

[loutil]

I agree with Don. However, I do not fully understand how that map works. So, maybe my thoughts are not relevant...

[TrafalgarLaw01]

I have just finished 1 game, and playing another 2.

But I agree with Don here. Auto deploy is Completletly Irrelevant. As once you are out thosr troops become useless. And if your oponnent knows the map will never take all ur land terts just leave one with 1 or 2 and you are done for anyway.

So with or without autodeploy I dont see the difference tbh. But I am still trying to get the map. All the condituonal borders still confuse me a lot.

[Donelladan]

Couldn't we have the +1 auto deploy available on the regular website ? Since the map is still in Beta it should be ok to have it here just to test it no ?
Would be quite easier to test variety of settings playing on the regular website since there is much more activity.

[Fuchsia tude]

To the people saying "yes on the +1", did you actually try it out on multiplayer ?
I don't understand how it can be at the same time "a huge benefit" and on the other hand, "only draw out the inevitable".

That was referring to two different proposals: the first, to the current (on the Beta site) +1 autodeploy on kingdoms; the second, to a hypothetical City Mogul style +1000 or (more seriously) +3 or +5 or whatever instead. I like the +1 autodeploy; I like it less and less as that number increases.

I agree though that it won't make much difference in 1v1; but it would make a difference in higher-playercount games. Since it doesn't hurt in the former, and really helps in the latter, I don't really see a downside.