How do spoils work?

[divad82]

Apologize if this is posted elsewhere, but I couldn't find it with a few searches and I'm looking for a nuanced bit of information. Feel free to point me to the post if my search-fu is weak.

The spoils you receive at the end of each turn (in which you conquered a territory etc) appear completely random. Is this true? I fear the game suffers for it, while the fun of the game is the mix of strategic decisions and statistics to best use one's luck, adding yet another completely random mechanic takes away a tool a player can use. This is particularly obvious in the Zombie and nuke games; sure interesting twists but so rarely do you have the card that cracks open that choke point so the games are just slugfests of random destruction. Worse, if you have a card of your OWN territory there's no guarantee that someone else also doesn't have the card, so you don't have security for those troops. As you can see I use the term spoils and cards interchangeably; in the-game-that-shall-not-be-named there is 1 card per territory so someone *could* try to memorize which cards had been played. It's a rarely worth the effort but it's a tool one *could* use; if that was simulated here, one could go back through the log so it's still fair between those who have good memories vs research time.

Of course I could be wrong, maybe there's 3 cards per territory (1 per color) which is possible, however i've seen the same territory played so many times in the same game, it is unlikely that the game is tracking a "discard deck" like how that other boardgame does it.

Any admin know exactly how this mechanic works?

[TeeGee]

Spoils
Escalating sets are worth 4,6,8,10,12,15,20... (i.e. the first set of spoils turned in by any player is worth 4 troops, the second set is worth 6, etc.) When the value reaches 100, it begins to escalate even more rapidly via the sequence 100,110,125,145,170...

Flat Rate sets are worth 4 for red, 6 for green, 8 for blue and 10 for mixed.

Nuclear sets are not worth any troops. Instead, each region in the set is nuked to a single neutral troop (even if you own it!).

Zombie sets work in a similar way to Nuclear, with each region in the set being zombified to being neutral (but not changed in size).


and the only time spoils will double up is if ALL of the initial spoils have been dealt out once, so in a 12 player game if 59 spoils have been issued and less than 59 territories exist then there will be doubles,

in classic, there are 42 territories, so the first 42 spoils issued will not clash.. and once spoils are returned to the pack then they will be re-issued before duplicates may appear

[jusplay4fun]

Thanks TeeGee.

He joined in 2008 and has 69 Total games. I guess he is still learning how to play. He currently has 3 active games, btw.

[divad82]

TeeGee & JP4F
Thanks for taking the time to share the rules explanation; I apologize if my question was not clear.
What I'm trying to understand is the mechanic in which the spoils are given, i.e their color and related territory.

There are many different types of random; for instance: with a physical deck of cards you have a 1 in 52 chance of getting the ace of spades. However, if that first card isn't shuffled back into the deck, you now have the better odds of 1:51 etc. BlackJack dealers use a multi-deck shoe to prevent players from being able to rely on these statistical realities.

Video games can approach pure random, but the developers have a choice, they could emulate a single deck of card with a discard pile or "reshuffle every turn", in both those cases how many of each card is still helpful to know. It's also possible that the randomization is "stateless" that is, you have a 1:3 chance of a getting a color then a 1:<territoryList> of getting a territory at every single spoil award. However, in-theory every player could have the same cards in their "hand". I've never polled my team/foes to see, but I've definitely seen a Green-Komi(Worlds 2.1) played while I was holding Blue-Komi. I'd like to know exactly which method is implemented for future games.

Thanks again

[Nut Shot Scott]

I believe all of this was essentially answered. You have to assume that it is entirely random - so each draw is independent of the previous draw. We've all cashed a card only to immediately draw the same card. This implies that it is not a "bottom of the deck" reinsert. It's a constant random reshuffle of the available cards and it is immediate.

Although doubling up cards on World 2.1 should be impossible I think due to the sheer volume of terts. Unless it was an old battle royale or something. I think we would need more than anecdotal proof to verify that claim and for someone to look into it. The only theory I have here is that it is also somehow tied to rounds. So if you pulled Komi round 1 but never played it and it's round 140, there's a chance that the program "forgets" and in some way calculates that it's cycled through and you must have played the card? There is the possibility of a design flaw there I guess but that's pure speculation.

My understanding is there should not be a double of a card in play unless all territory cards are in use. So smaller maps with larger number of players i.e. Eurasia Mini with 10 players.

All that said, I'm not sure why in the world it would matter beyond the point of knowing someone doesn't have your tert in a nuke/zombie game. Which as stated, should not occur except in the odd circumstance. You aren't able to count or guess someone else's card colors - they're random.

As for your comments on zombie and nuke games, you've played a total of 10. I'm no expert on either but I would say play a lot more than 10 before you start making conclusions about how those games play out and what factor cards do or do not have. Just me.