Shoop76 game throwing in Tribe Tournament [ka]

by **aad0906** on Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:29 pm

Accused:
Shoop76

The accused are suspected of:

Other: game throwing

Game number(s):
Game 20015261

Comments: some of you may remember this game because this is the game that josko.ri earlier accused me for "game throwing" about. Well surprise, surprise, by round 19 I was actually winning! And then this happens:
2020-06-30 02:10:46 - shoop76 assaulted Sakhalin from Hokkaido and conquered it from aad0906
He took out my stack of 27 troops there at a considerable cost to himself, and cost me 9 in bonus deploy. He had no path to victory at this point because another player Loose Cannon was way out of his reach and has now won the game because and only because of this move by Shoop76.

He even admitted in the game chat that he did this to improve his chances in the overall tournament:
2020-06-30 04:05:01 - shoop76: i am not hiding my intention, yes I did it to win the tournament, I believed that the ruling stated it was not allowed in early rounds of tournaments when a lot can still happen
2020-06-30 04:05:33 - shoop76: at this stage it is clear who the leaders are and who can and cannot pass you on the scoreboard
2020-06-30 04:05:54 - shoop76: to not do it would be throwing a whole tournament away

So the only reason to torpedo me in round 19 without strategic advantage in this particular game was to stop me from passing him on the tournament ladder. I understand that reason, but it's still against the rules.

by **Caymanmew** on Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:59 pm

It is a stupid rule anyways,

Seems like the smart play to me. Sitting there and doing nothing would be better described as game throwing then doing whatever you can to improve your position yourself.

by **aad0906** on Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:17 pm

If it's a stupid rule then let's get rid of it because in another game I had the ability to torpedo Shoop76 in favor of someone else but I didn't because of this rule.

by **king achilles** on Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:27 pm

To clarify for others, if you want a "no holds barred" or an "anything goes" gameplays in your tournaments, please state in your tournament handbook rules/guidelines so that everyone who gets the receiving end of being suicided on can be shown that rule on what is allowed in your tournament games instead of saying, "that is acceptable and reasonable".

We will continue to get these kind of reports involving tournament games and then we will get blamed afterwards if we follow the site rules, which as you perceive, contradicts what is an acceptable strategy for the Tournament.

We can respect what the Tournament organizers and moderators would allow in their tournaments. Make it official.

by **rockfist** on Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:30 pm

There should never be a tournament that is organized in three plus player games, where people are playing for the same team in the tournament, but not in the games and are in the same games together. If you eliminate that design flaw you eliminate this from happening.

Until you fix that expect more complaints.

by **shoop76** on Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:16 am

This game is still ongoing, shouldn't we wait for it to finish? I could spend a lot of time looking into certain things and then he comes up with a 3 carder and wins.

I will also have a problem recreating exactly what happened as my snaps for this game have mysteriously disappeared. This is very strange as all my snaps are still there for the other games.

by **FrenchPupil** on Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:35 am

WTF ? ? ?

Complains in game not finished ? Because the games and the tornament goes in the wrong way ?

From the description of it, Shoop76 is making a sound move defending his games (and his tornament).

Aad0906 i am sorry, it seems you are upset by the turns of events, but this looks like some kind of destabilization campaign.
And trying to win outside of the board game ...

by **josko.ri** on Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:43 am

aad0906 was not winning at all, he is lying here. In round 19 Loose Canon had lead of 30+ troops over aad0906 and then I attacked Loose Canon and Loose Canon attacked me back by fighting my stack of 30 troops. Only by this sequence of events aad0906 is now in position to possibly win but if Shoop76 did not attack him, I also would not attack Loose Canon, he would not attack me back, and in any case aad0906 would not be winner of this game.

by **josko.ri** on Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:46 am

aad0906 wrote:Well surprise, surprise, by round 19 I was actually winning!

This is notorious lie and manipulation. In Round 19 aad0906 was 30+ troops behind Loose Canon.

aad0906, do you have any evidence (screenshot or so) which can prove your claim that by round 19 you were actually winning?

by **shoop76** on Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:50 am

Can you post your snapshot from round 18 as well. In round 19 Unai hit you as well to break your bonus. I'm sure that affected the result as well.

by **josko.ri** on Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:38 am

aad0906 wrote:2020-06-27 03:52:59 - aad0906: I can't win, but I want to prevent 1,000,000% that due to some ikind of miracke josko.ri manipatues the game into a victory for him.

This is aad0906's statement in the above game chat. In This statement he did exactly what he is accusing shoop76 are doing and breaking rules. He proposed any possible kind of alliance to silver in order to prevent me from winning this game (not to win it by himself), which is against the site rules.

And above all, in the above quoted statement aad0906 clearly declared in the game chat that he can't anymore win the game, yet now he is accusing shoop76 that he prevented him from wining the game afterwards. What a hypocrite!

by **shoop76** on Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:49 am

I think the thing that upsets you about these games is the perception that Josko and I were working together because we were in the same tribe. The truth is we had a very loose truce in 1 game. In this game Josko and I were neck and neck until the later rounds. Here Adminstrat0r hit a 50+ stack of mine guaranteeing Josko the win. In 2 other games Josko offered truces, and I actually rejected them. There was no alliance, and Aad started complaining since the very start of these games. Trying to get others to start attacking us because of his misconception.

Funny thing is I played all 8 games against Aad in these tournaments. We had an understanding between each other in most games when it came to our bonuses. One that he actually broke himself in another game that I was dominating.

by **aad0906** on Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:04 am

shoop76 wrote:This game is still ongoing, shouldn't we wait for it to finish? I could spend a lot of time looking into certain things and then he comes up with a 3 carder and wins.

I will also have a problem recreating exactly what happened as my snaps for this game have mysteriously disappeared. This is very strange as all my snaps are still there for the other games.

I don't have a 3 card set. There are just 2 players left, neither who are able to change the outcome of the game, Loose Cannon cannot escape victory, trust me.

by **aad0906** on Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:06 am

FrenchPupil wrote:WTF ? ? ?

Complains in game not finished ? Because the games and the tornament goes in the wrong way ?

From the description of it, Shoop76 is making a sound move defending his games (and his tornament).

Aad0906 i am sorry, it seems you are upset by the turns of events, but this looks like some kind of destabilization campaign.
And trying to win outside of the board game ...

Look like I said, I totally understand the move. And if it was okay with the rules, I would have done the same in game Game 20015260 where I could have stopped shoop76 from wining but I didn't. I am pretty sure that if I had stopped him from winning there both him and josko would have filed a game throwing C&A gaisnt me, and rightly so.

by **aad0906** on Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:25 am

josko.ri wrote:
aad0906 wrote:2020-06-27 03:52:59 - aad0906: I can't win, but I want to prevent 1,000,000% that due to some ikind of miracke josko.ri manipatues the game into a victory for him.

This is aad0906's statement in the above game chat. In This statement he did exactly what he is accusing shoop76 are doing and breaking rules. He proposed any possible kind of alliance to silver in order to prevent me from winning this game (not to win it by himself), which is against the site rules.

And above all, in the above quoted statement aad0906 clearly declared in the game chat that he can't anymore win the game, yet now he is accusing shoop76 that he prevented him from wining the game afterwards. What a hypocrite!

We all say and do a lot in chat the change the game in our favour, you of all people should be aware. You pretty much instruct other players exactly what to do, with a canny level of detail. I played to win and came damn near close. You played to win too:

2020-06-24 21:43:50 - josko.ri: LC, I broke blue because I can fight vs him to catch him but I cannot access green [aad0906]. Therefore threat for your and my win now is green [aad0906 - so josko does acknowledge that I am a contender for the victory!] so you may attack green instead of blue who you initially planned to attack.
2020-06-24 21:48:13 - josko.ri: Green did not declare any truce with you here so I am sure he will attack you soon the same as he attacked Shoop76 in the other game. You can prevent it if you attack green before he can attack you.
2020-06-25 03:51:10 - Loose Canon: actually i agree with your logic joski - I don't usually like doing what someone else suggests but in this case i think your logic is too too good - and it makes the game interesting
2020-06-25 08:29:53 - aad0906: I wasn't planning to attack you silver but it's funny how josko is again successfully manipulating players
2020-06-25 22:38:36 - josko.ri: Loose Cannon, I will unite with you vs blue and green [aad0906] with condition that I fight vs blue but you fight vs green because I cannot reach green. Therefore this turn I will break bonus of blue with stack of 30 so that you can focus on green
2020-06-25 22:40:15 - josko.ri: Shoop, if you allow silver stack from East Iran to be forted to east (don't block him with your troops) then maybe in some circumstances you have chance here if blue and me fight and green and silver fight.

Anyway I posted a lot in chat too, free for all to see but it's not relevant. Nothing illegal was said in chat. This is also not an indictment against josko. He broke no rules in this game.

by **josko.ri** on Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:36 pm

aad0906 wrote:
josko.ri wrote:
aad0906 wrote:2020-06-27 03:52:59 - aad0906: I can't win, but I want to prevent 1,000,000% that due to some ikind of miracke josko.ri manipatues the game into a victory for him.

This is aad0906's statement in the above game chat. In This statement he did exactly what he is accusing shoop76 are doing and breaking rules. He proposed any possible kind of alliance to silver in order to prevent me from winning this game (not to win it by himself), which is against the site rules.

And above all, in the above quoted statement aad0906 clearly declared in the game chat that he can't anymore win the game, yet now he is accusing shoop76 that he prevented him from wining the game afterwards. What a hypocrite!

We all say and do a lot in chat the change the game in our favour, you of all people should be aware. You pretty much instruct other players exactly what to do, with a canny level of detail. I played to win and came damn near close. You played to win too:

2020-06-24 21:43:50 - josko.ri: LC, I broke blue because I can fight vs him to catch him but I cannot access green [aad0906]. Therefore threat for your and my win now is green [aad0906 - so josko does acknowledge that I am a contender for the victory!] so you may attack green instead of blue who you initially planned to attack.
2020-06-24 21:48:13 - josko.ri: Green did not declare any truce with you here so I am sure he will attack you soon the same as he attacked Shoop76 in the other game. You can prevent it if you attack green before he can attack you.
2020-06-25 03:51:10 - Loose Canon: actually i agree with your logic joski - I don't usually like doing what someone else suggests but in this case i think your logic is too too good - and it makes the game interesting
2020-06-25 08:29:53 - aad0906: I wasn't planning to attack you silver but it's funny how josko is again successfully manipulating players
2020-06-25 22:38:36 - josko.ri: Loose Cannon, I will unite with you vs blue and green [aad0906] with condition that I fight vs blue but you fight vs green because I cannot reach green. Therefore this turn I will break bonus of blue with stack of 30 so that you can focus on green
2020-06-25 22:40:15 - josko.ri: Shoop, if you allow silver stack from East Iran to be forted to east (don't block him with your troops) then maybe in some circumstances you have chance here if blue and me fight and green and silver fight.

Anyway I posted a lot in chat too, free for all to see but it's not relevant. Nothing illegal was said in chat. This is also not an indictment against josko. He broke no rules in this game.

You played to win but at some point you lost your winning chances and then clearly declared that you cannot anymore win (as per the above quoted statement) but that you will do anything what you can to prevent me winning.

Isnt that exactly the same wrongdoing for what you are accusing shoop76 here?

by **YukFoo** on Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:11 am

You girls just need to put a "No Whiners" rule in your tournaments rules guidebook. If you whine, you are out.

by **aad0906** on Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:46 pm

josko.ri wrote:
aad0906 wrote:2020-06-27 03:52:59 - aad0906: I can't win, but I want to prevent 1,000,000% that due to some ikind of miracke josko.ri manipatues the game into a victory for him.

This is aad0906's statement in the above game chat. In This statement he did exactly what he is accusing shoop76 are doing and breaking rules. He proposed any possible kind of alliance to silver in order to prevent me from winning this game (not to win it by himself), which is against the site rules.

And above all, in the above quoted statement aad0906 clearly declared in the game chat that he can't anymore win the game, yet now he is accusing shoop76 that he prevented him from wining the game afterwards. What a hypocrite!

yeah like I said we all say a lot of things in chat to try to persuade other players to help us, you're no stranger to that. I came 2 troops short, so how was I never winning you dumbass.

Feel free to file a C&A on me if I did anything nefarious.

by **shoop76** on Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:29 am

So the only reason to torpedo me in round 19 without strategic advantage in this particular game was to stop me from passing him on the tournament ladder.

I believe this statement to be false. I believe I joined this tournament 1st overall. As all games went to 20 rounds that would be the next tiebreak.

My move in round 19 actually gave me a chance. I needed the rest to start attacking each other. The chance might not have been huge, but as you see at the end I lost by 9 troops.

It would be unfair to say that my move alone cost him the win. Unai also broke a bonus in round 19. His early altercations with Josko in this game also did not help him. In the end Loose Canon, played his last rounds very well ensuring the victory for himself.

The settings for this tournament is going to lead to someone feeling upset. Many times these games don´t break open until the last few rounds and the leaders will be tactically hit but one or more players.

by **Nut Shot Scott** on Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:55 am

shoop76 wrote:
So the only reason to torpedo me in round 19 without strategic advantage in this particular game was to stop me from passing him on the tournament ladder.

I believe this statement to be false. I believe I joined this tournament 1st overall. As all games went to 20 rounds that would be the next tiebreak.

My move in round 19 actually gave me a chance. I needed the rest to start attacking each other. The chance might not have been huge, but as you see at the end I lost by 9 troops.

It would be unfair to say that my move alone cost him the win. Unai also broke a bonus in round 19. His early altercations with Josko in this game also did not help him. In the end Loose Canon, played his last rounds very well ensuring the victory for himself.

The settings for this tournament is going to lead to someone feeling upset. Many times these games don´t break open until the last few rounds and the leaders will be tactically hit but one or more players.

exactly.

by **FrenchPupil** on Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:59 pm

YukFoo wrote:You girls just need to put a "No Whiners" rule in your tournaments rules guidebook. If you whine, you are out.

Love it

go for that rules, in all CC ...

Wait, i am sure someone would end up complaining about it ... because, you know, you are wrong and don’t understand they are so good, sorry : soo great, even conqueror. it’s just that the world is plotting an evil machiavelic plan with helps of all nations and aliens yet to be discovered, to make sure they stay in the shadow and don’t win ... ever ...

by **king achilles** on Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:28 pm

After further deliberation, we agree with this case as another example of Game Throwing. I will let this report serve as a warning for the accused.

by **shoop76** on Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:46 am

king achilles wrote:After further deliberation, we agree with this case as another example of Game Throwing. I will let this report serve as a warning for the accused.

Is it noted or a warning?

Just curious, what is your definition of game throwing?