Closed hopalong farming new recruits [ka]

[iAmCaffeine]

Accused:
hopalong

The accused are suspected of:
Farming New Recruits

Game number(s):
Game 19817885
Game 19808709
Game 19792778
Game 19785696
Game 19779934
Game 19778343
Game 19774411
Game 19770346
Game 19770339
Game 19767818
Game 19767569
Game 19766217
Game 19759784
Game 19753157
Game 19752997

Comments:
I have a new hobby.

[Extreme Ways]

This is again someone trying to accomodate NRs and trying to keep them to stay. If CC is going to continue to warn people for this, in these times... good luck retaining the goodwill of these people.

[iAmCaffeine]

How do you think he's doing that?

If you want to help, maybe go play guide games. Don't create games on settings and maps they have no clue how to play.

Not very hard to copy/paste a message that says "hi welcome to Conquer Club".

[Mad777]

I want to believe from his thoughts he is filling those games to keep them building and in line with the Pantry project, if you go in the game chat from many of those game he has acted as a guide and tried to help those NR who may have started those game...yet it could be seen as farming but I would think for hopalong case is purely from the Pantry project point of view. I could be wrong

[Jdsizzleslice]

I guess this begs the question: Who's Next?

[iAmCaffeine]

I guess this begs the question: Who's Next?

Please stay on topic. This kind of thing can be sent to me via PM.

[Extreme Ways]

How do you think he's doing that?

If you want to help, maybe go play guide games. Don't create games on settings and maps they have no clue how to play.

Not very hard to copy/paste a message that says "hi welcome to Conquer Club".

So people that dont use the guide game process should get no games at all?

Your verb of choosing also insinuates hop was doing P@P-style farming. I agree that NRs have no business on maps like USA2.1, but why allow them to play those maps in the first place then? Games need players.

[Jdsizzleslice]

I guess this begs the question: Who's Next?

Please stay on topic. This kind of thing can be sent to me via PM.

Relevant because this is your 4th Farming Accusation in the past 2 days.

[ljex]

How do you think he's doing that?

If you want to help, maybe go play guide games. Don't create games on settings and maps they have no clue how to play.

Not very hard to copy/paste a message that says "hi welcome to Conquer Club".

So people that dont use the guide game process should get no games at all?

Your verb of choosing also insinuates hop was doing P@P-style farming. I agree that NRs have no business on maps like USA2.1, but why allow them to play those maps in the first place then? Games need players.

It's almost like you need a simpler solution to the problem. One where say if a NR deadbeats no points are given & they only have access to certain approved maps. This would very quickly make it not point profitable to play the games if you are a high rank and actually give the people who want to help a chance to do so without being labeled cheats.

As it stands there is going to be a bunch of players who get accused of this many of whom have good intentions but are technically breaking the rules so CC will give them warnings and they will not actually be able to help. The guide games are fine and dandy but I recently got added to one automatically as a 4 player game. If that happens in a material way as some have suggested I will quickly be unvolunteering for the program because it will be a hassle to volunteer for games that require more thought and are less personal in terms of ability to talk with the new player.

Honestly IamCaffine has got on his high horse and thinks he is helping find cheaters but at the end of the day would people rather no one join the NR games or someone join and try to play real time and form a relationship with the new recruit? This is a classic case of the rules not being properly aligned with what you want to actually happen for the health of the website.

Eventually if you stop all the helpful people joining the games what happens to the experience of the NR's? And with that new experience are they likely to stay?

[hopalong]

Thanks for walling me, iam. In the future, I would be happy to discuss with you any concerns you have with my game selection in private.

Don't create games on settings and maps they have no clue how to play.

Please spend more time looking at the games you linked. Questions you may wish to consider include, butt are not limited to:
How many games did I create?
How many games are not actually new recruits?

Could whoever is responsible for reviewing these posts please let me know if I need to respond to this accusation, or if I need to explain any of my decisions for choosing the games listed? I would be happy to exchange PMs explaining myself with whoever reviews such accusations.

Sincerely,
hop

[iAmCaffeine]

So many people here acting like knowingly farming is okay if you make a half assed attempt to welcome them to the site. Sad.

I guess this begs the question: Who's Next?

Please stay on topic. This kind of thing can be sent to me via PM.

Relevant because this is your 4th Farming Accusation in the past 2 days.

Irrelevant to this report and I doubt you'd post if it wasn't directly about me. If you want to talk about anything that isn't this particular report, PM me.

One where say if a NR deadbeats no points are given & they only have access to certain approved maps.

This is a good idea.

As it stands there is going to be a bunch of players who get accused of this many of whom have good intentions but are technically breaking the rules so CC will give them warnings and they will not actually be able to help. The guide games are fine and dandy but I recently got added to one automatically as a 4 player game. If that happens in a material way as some have suggested I will quickly be unvolunteering for the program because it will be a hassle to volunteer for games that require more thought and are less personal in terms of ability to talk with the new player.

This is a very ironic statement when you look at Game 19824637, Game 19818579, Game 19816436 or Game 19765032.

Honestly IamCaffine has got on his high horse and thinks he is helping find cheaters but at the end of the day would people rather no one join the NR games or someone join and try to play real time and form a relationship with the new recruit? This is a classic case of the rules not being properly aligned with what you want to actually happen for the health of the website.

Well, ibex (I assume it's okay to call you that based on your above comment), I just don't like people who are obviously farming new players behind thinly veiled lies. That's my issue.

[Jdsizzleslice]

I guess this begs the question: Who's Next?

Please stay on topic. This kind of thing can be sent to me via PM.

Relevant because this is your 4th Farming Accusation in the past 2 days.

Irrelevant to this report and I doubt you'd post if it wasn't directly about me. If you want to talk about anything that isn't this particular report, PM me.

Relevant to this report because the accuser has a known history to make assumptions before having all of the facts.

[Extreme Ways]

Caff, you are familiar with the people you accused. You know what they're like, where their interests lie. At the very least refrain from calling their chat 'lies', you know better. The people you're accusing are not your everyday farmers. We're not having a "monthly leaderboard abuse" case here. We're having hopalong, a standout member of the CC community, being accused of farming NRs.

Yes we have no evidence of 'good intentions', nor do we have evidence of 'bad intentions'. I think a track record should matter here in coronatimes. Next time you want to accuse someone, maybe at least try to gauge what their intentions might be before opening a thread like this, walling them 'stop farming NRs' and calling their chat lies.

I actually don't think you're doing these reports because you think they're doing wrong, I think you're doing these things to try to get CC to change things for the better. Such as implementing ljex's suggestion: no point gain if a NR deadbeats goes a long way, then we do not have to look at any of the classic games. It's hardly farming if one needs to win 8 out of 9 1v1s on classic to gain points.

[Jdsizzleslice]

It's almost like you need a simpler solution to the problem. One where say if a NR deadbeats no points are given & they only have access to certain approved maps. This would very quickly make it not point profitable to play the games if you are a high rank and actually give the people who want to help a chance to do so without being labeled cheats.

As it stands there is going to be a bunch of players who get accused of this many of whom have good intentions but are technically breaking the rules so CC will give them warnings and they will not actually be able to help. The guide games are fine and dandy but I recently got added to one automatically as a 4 player game. If that happens in a material way as some have suggested I will quickly be unvolunteering for the program because it will be a hassle to volunteer for games that require more thought and are less personal in terms of ability to talk with the new player.

Honestly IamCaffine has got on his high horse and thinks he is helping find cheaters but at the end of the day would people rather no one join the NR games or someone join and try to play real time and form a relationship with the new recruit? This is a classic case of the rules not being properly aligned with what you want to actually happen for the health of the website.

Eventually if you stop all the helpful people joining the games what happens to the experience of the NR's? And with that new experience are they likely to stay?

Caff, you are familiar with the people you accused. You know what they're like, where their interests lie. At the very least refrain from calling their chat 'lies', you know better. The people you're accusing are not your everyday farmers. We're not having a "monthly leaderboard abuse" case here. We're having hopalong, a standout member of the CC community, being accused of farming NRs.

Yes we have no evidence of 'good intentions', nor do we have evidence of 'bad intentions'. I think a track record should matter here in coronatimes. Next time you want to accuse someone, maybe at least try to gauge what their intentions might be before opening a thread like this, walling them 'stop farming NRs' and calling their chat lies.

I actually don't think you're doing these reports because you think they're doing wrong, I think you're doing these things to try to get CC to change things for the better. Such as implementing ljex's suggestion: no point gain if a NR deadbeats goes a long way, then we do not have to look at any of the classic games. It's hardly farming if one needs to win 8 out of 9 1v1s on classic to gain points.

We could talk about some of these suggestions in this post. The subject of the influx of New Recruits is a conversation worth having.

[iAmCaffeine]

I didn't call hopalong a liar, although I can see why you would interpret my comment that way, it was directed at ljex as I believe there are people farming new recruits and trying to pretend otherwise. I don't think hopalong is a malicious person, nor particularly a liar (no more than the rest of us). I do think he's farming.

My intention is for new recruits to have the best possible introduction and integration into this website as they can so that we can keep as many of them active as possible after the pandemic is over.

[ljex]

So many people here acting like knowingly farming is okay if you make a half assed attempt to welcome them to the site. Sad.

I guess this begs the question: Who's Next?

Please stay on topic. This kind of thing can be sent to me via PM.

Relevant because this is your 4th Farming Accusation in the past 2 days.

Irrelevant to this report and I doubt you'd post if it wasn't directly about me. If you want to talk about anything that isn't this particular report, PM me.

One where say if a NR deadbeats no points are given & they only have access to certain approved maps.

This is a good idea.

As it stands there is going to be a bunch of players who get accused of this many of whom have good intentions but are technically breaking the rules so CC will give them warnings and they will not actually be able to help. The guide games are fine and dandy but I recently got added to one automatically as a 4 player game. If that happens in a material way as some have suggested I will quickly be unvolunteering for the program because it will be a hassle to volunteer for games that require more thought and are less personal in terms of ability to talk with the new player.

This is a very ironic statement when you look at Game 19824637, Game 19818579, Game 19816436 or Game 19765032.

Honestly IamCaffine has got on his high horse and thinks he is helping find cheaters but at the end of the day would people rather no one join the NR games or someone join and try to play real time and form a relationship with the new recruit? This is a classic case of the rules not being properly aligned with what you want to actually happen for the health of the website.

Well, ibex (I assume it's okay to call you that based on your above comment), I just don't like people who are obviously farming new players behind thinly veiled lies. That's my issue.

See you choose to think no one can have good intentions, must be a sad life you live always assuming the worst in people.

There is a huge difference between intentionally joining a game and just getting added. Per one statement in the other thread someone got added to some high number automatically (don't care to check but I think it was 30 or something). As you will see I had a handful of those before I realized that was a bad way to actually try and recruit the players to stay.

You can misspell my name and be a jerk all you want but again if you continue to see the worst in people that will be a sad life. Some of us don't give a shit about what our score is on here, myself included. I am 100% confident I could get to general if I just game selected to the ones I am good at and unlike you I have actually done it in the past.

Ill happily not join any more of the games with NR's but you have yet to actually answer the question of if that is a good outcome for the site. You conveniently ignore that every time I mention it in one of these threads and we both know exactly why that is...because it contradicts your desire to "catch" people.

[iAmCaffeine]

See you choose to think no one can have good intentions, must be a sad life you live always assuming the worst in people.

That's a pretty big assumption to make about my entire life over a handful of C&A reports.

You can misspell my name and be a jerk all you want but again if you continue to see the worst in people that will be a sad life.

You did it first!

Some of us don't give a shit about what our score is on here, myself included. I am 100% confident I could get to general if I just game selected to the ones I am good at and unlike you I have actually done it in the past.

It's common knowledge I have never played to achieve a high score. Congratulations on your previous success at doing so.

Ill happily not join any more of the games with NR's but you have yet to actually answer the question of if that is a good outcome for the site. You conveniently ignore that every time I mention it in one of these threads and we both know exactly why that is...because it contradicts your desire to "catch" people.

I have offered a better solution to you numerous times. I have also written out suggestions for the site to consider/implement to improve the new player experience in the past, but unfortunately with no results. Considering the massive influx we're having now, hopefully things will be done to improve all aspects of the game and site for new players.

[mdhill]

1) Hop is one of the most generous and helpful folks on this site. I am confident there was no ill intent in his trying to welcome these new players.

2) Let's not start banning new folks from certain maps. When I got my dad (raildale) to start playing the site, I played a couple classic games with him and then taught him USA 2.1. He enjoyed it and picked it up quite quickly. When he went off in the wild to try it on his own, irony of ironies, Caff picked up the game to play against him. I'm not saying Caff did anything wrong, but neither did Hop. This allegation is dumb.

mdhill

*Edit: Caff was also super-nice and respectful to my dad when they played, lest anyone interpret this as a shot at Caff.

[zeus111]

can we not disable the point loss on a new recruit untill 5 games in part of the premium account draw is the ability to play as many games as we wish if the point grab is the issue take that out of the equation, allow the new member to obtain our points if we loose but zero point gain if we win . 100 percent agree with the post above. hopalong should not be in here for this

zeus111

[ljex]

See you choose to think no one can have good intentions, must be a sad life you live always assuming the worst in people.

That's a pretty big assumption to make about my entire life over a handful of C&A reports.

I mean sure, but you are already at more than a handful and have been pretty negative on every single one of them.

You can misspell my name and be a jerk all you want but again if you continue to see the worst in people that will be a sad life.

You did it first!

I am sorry that I am a terrible speller, clearly I have wronged you on a personal level. Can you ever forgive me?

Some of us don't give a shit about what our score is on here, myself included. I am 100% confident I could get to general if I just game selected to the ones I am good at and unlike you I have actually done it in the past.

It's common knowledge I have never played to achieve a high score. Congratulations on your previous success at doing so.

Your missing the point here, which is that why would I farm to get rank?

Ill happily not join any more of the games with NR's but you have yet to actually answer the question of if that is a good outcome for the site. You conveniently ignore that every time I mention it in one of these threads and we both know exactly why that is...because it contradicts your desire to "catch" people.

I have offered a better solution to you numerous times. I have also written out suggestions for the site to consider/implement to improve the new player experience in the past, but unfortunately with no results. Considering the massive influx we're having now, hopefully things will be done to improve all aspects of the game and site for new players.

Its really tiring honestly, you have offered a solution that doesn't have any data behind it and quite frankly to me seems creepy but you act like it is this holy grail of a solution. If someone did that to me it would have had the opposite effect. At the end of the day we can have different ideas but don't act like yours is better for everyone. I will continue to argue that it is worse for the site if established players who have a history of community service are not allowed to join games new recruit games (I myself used to be a mod and taught many how to play both team games and speed freestyle).

I totally understand how people can abuse the "I am just trying to help" and because of that understand the decision to on the part of the admins to issue warning but again it is a worse outcome for CC to follow this course of action instead of implementing other simple changes that allow for the spirit of what I was trying to do without the potential for abuse that is shown by some of the other people you have reported (i.e., those who are joining the games and not even saying hi, or downright insulting the new players in some of the other threads). Some don't even require coding changes, such as X% of games can be against NR's without being considered abuse.

At some point everyone gets a warning and then the new recruits experience is to play against a deadbeat...that gets us as a community no where during a time when we should be trying to encourage people to enjoy the site and stay even after the pandemic is over.

I feel like you are so hellbent on the rules are rules argument that you are missing the big picture. If you have 20 mins you should watch this video because it describes exactly why the rule are rules argument doesn't actually tie with desired outcomes in a few different scenarios. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA-zdh_bQBo

[iAmCaffeine]

I didn't read the last 3.5 paragraphs of your post. You exaggerate too much.

[YukFoo]

hop is a public servant who likes to fill games. I receive dozens of invites from hop to join games that he doesn't even play! If anything hop should get an award.

There is no such thing as farming new recruits. When you gain 8 points for a win, and lose 50+ points when a new recruit wins, the math doesn't make sense. You literally have to win 5-6 games for every loss just to stay on par.

Isn't "farming" when you have many more troops than the other player, and you have the opportunity to end the game, yet you continue to "farm" your opponent to show that you are in control, ie. you are the farmer?

[Jdsizzleslice]

Isn't "farming" when you have many more troops than the other player, and you have the opportunity to end the game, yet you continue to "farm" your opponent to show that you are in control, ie. you are the farmer?

That's commonly referred to as "holding hostage."

[Keefie]

I'm not saying that Hop is guily or innocent of this, but Guide Games are there to help NR's.

[DBandit70]

IAC with so many new players coming to CC, people have to fill the games how are the new recruits supposed to learn if you report everyone that joins them. I would join some new recruit games and help teach them how to play but I know you'd just report me and i don't feel like going through that trouble. And yes they could start guide games but a lot don't so you have to join there games. And I'm not sure if you noticed the whole first page of games is just covered in new recruits. I'm sure that most would agree with me on this.