www.skyandtelescope.org copy pastes.

[jusplay4fun]

I think I saw Saturn this evening, but I am not sure. It was too cloudy to see the moon shortly after sunset here in VA, and so I could not use it as a reference. But I must admit I may have seen Venus instead. I did not have anything with me, only my eyes, to spot a planet. The planet (that did not twinkle) was very low in the sky this evening, shortly after sunset and I was looking southwest. Today was the last chance to see Saturn in the evening sky, until the summer; see below.

Dec. 20-28:

https://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/this-weeks-sky-at-a-glance-december-20-28/

Friday, Dec. 27

• In twilight about 30 minutes after sunset, spot the thin crescent Moon low in the southwest. It's well to the lower right of Venus, as shown here. Using binoculars, look for faint Saturn disappearing toward the horizon a few degrees lower right of the Moon. This is the last we'll see of Saturn in the evening sky until next summer.

[riskllama]

[2dimes]

Big Wham needs to build an observatory.

https://cam01.sci.ucalgary.ca/AllSkyCam ... tImage.JPG

[jusplay4fun]

Sorry, Llama, NOT helpful. Wrong Saturn; we are talking Planets and Astronomy, NOT skateboards here. Good Try, tho...!

[riskllama]

it's about space n' shit... .

[2dimes]

Also, it looks like they used a picture of Tony Alva, probably the first guy in the world to ever do that, so that's pretty cool.

[riskllama]

2dimes wins this thread.

[jusplay4fun]

Thanks for the Big Air, Llama. THAT may be helpful.

[betiko]

So.. what do you guys think about the possibility of an unknown planet in the solar system, that according to some caltech scientists has about the mass of neptune and has revolutions of roughly 10-20k earth years around the sun... that would be an explanation to the known planets orbits all leaning the same way compared to the sun.... could it be?
Also... if you bring it down to some ancient beliefs.. maybe that planet could beresponsible for the great flood or some meteorite crisis it could have brought from the kuiper belt?

[2dimes]

That sounds reasonable. I think there are a lot of things that could be out there humans don't know about. Especially if they only happen every 20000 years.

I'm going to bring this forward because I have not watched it yet.

We just saw Venus, easily visible driving under the street lights in the middle of the city. It was bright huge and right over the moon probably will be there for a while.

[jusplay4fun]

There are likely more dwarf planets in the Kuiper Belt.

That planet (or dwarf planet) causing floods or other human crises in the past 20,000 years? Not likely. Most planets would not move close enough to the earth to cause such things. If you want an expert, ask Neil deGrass Tyson.

So.. what do you guys think about the possibility of an unknown planet in the solar system, that according to some caltech scientists has about the mass of neptune and has revolutions of roughly 10-20k earth years around the sun... that would be an explanation to the known planets orbits all leaning the same way compared to the sun.... could it be?
Also... if you bring it down to some ancient beliefs.. maybe that planet could beresponsible for the great flood or some meteorite crisis it could have brought from the kuiper belt?

[2dimes]

Neptune is a dwarf planet?

Talking with llama about the local observatory. The one with the webcam. They seem to have made their website look nicer.
https://science.ucalgary.ca/rothney-observatory

[jusplay4fun]

Pluto, not Neptune; ask Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Neptune is a dwarf planet?

Talking with llama about the local observatory. The one with the webcam. They seem to have made their website look nicer.
https://science.ucalgary.ca/rothney-observatory

[betiko]

There are likely more dwarf planets in the Kuiper Belt.

That planet (or dwarf planet) causing floods or other human crises in the past 20,000 years? Not likely. Most planets would not move close enough to the earth to cause such things. If you want an expert, ask Neil deGrass Tyson.

So.. what do you guys think about the possibility of an unknown planet in the solar system, that according to some caltech scientists has about the mass of neptune and has revolutions of roughly 10-20k earth years around the sun... that would be an explanation to the known planets orbits all leaning the same way compared to the sun.... could it be?
Also... if you bring it down to some ancient beliefs.. maybe that planet could beresponsible for the great flood or some meteorite crisis it could have brought from the kuiper belt?

yeah what are you talking about... I said the mass of neptune. I'm talking about a possible legit new planet in the solar system. that in some places the kuiper belt has unexplanable voids and that it could be that mysterious giant planet that takes with itself objects from it when it goes that way. But the thing that questions the scientists the most... is the direction of the orbits of the current planets discovered that let's say... rotate around the sun over a 150° angle total... and nothing rotates in the other 210°... which is strange in terms of orbit consistency if there isn't a mass out there counter balacing all this.
The planet has to be very dark and have an atmosphere that reflects very little light to explain why it still hasn't been discovered.

In the past, planets such as Uranus have been ddiscovered through calculation and not observation. It is really something some scientists are investigating, not a new age BS

[betiko]

here i found a link legit enough

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/hy ... /in-depth/

[2dimes]

https://www.skyandtelescope.com/interactive-sky-chart/

https://cam01.sci.ucalgary.ca/AllSkyCam ... tImage.JPG

Banff Latitude: 51° 17' N Longitude: 115° 57' W

[jusplay4fun]

Two key words in your NASA link, Betiko:

Overview
Caltech researchers have found mathematical evidence suggesting there may be a "Planet X" deep in the solar system.

(I enlarged font for emphasis.)

JUS because something is possible does not mean it is plausible. Like many things in this world:

1) we do not know;
2) we wait for evidence of speculative or theoretical possibilities via discovery and research;
3) discovery could happen tomorrow or many years from now (e.g., the God Particle);
4) searching is part of the FUN and
5) Discovery is the "icing" on the search process.
6) Discovery takes time, energy, willingness to look, and often, LOTS of money. (See my example in 3, above.)
7) Lastly (for now) One discovery often and usually leads to even more questions.

Okay, I thought of ONE more: if the orbit is highly elliptical, then LUCK will play a HUGE role. Is the hypothetical "Planet Nine" near us now or will in get near us in another 10-20,000 years? That will dictate a lot of when, if ever, this Planet's existence is confirmed by observations. Study the discovery of the (now) dwarf planet Pluto. Perturbations of the orbits of Neptune led to the discovery of Pluto. And note that the orbit of Pluto is unique for 1) its angle of inclinations and 2) its very elliptical orbit will take it inside the orbit of Neptune (happened for some 20 years, as recently as 1989 or so; ALL this is based on my memory and may not be TOTALLY accurate), but leading the speculation of how Pluto was pulled closer to the sun

JP4Fun

[jusplay4fun]

I read that space n' shit is the new scientific term for things like Planet Nine:

it's about space n' shit... .

[jusplay4fun]

I agree that Big Wham needs to build an observatory for the 2-4 of us interested in such things here on CC...LoL...

I would prefer to see something in the photo from the observatory and not the daytime sky.

I do not see the ability of this telescope in this photo. Can you find any photos of the night sky with this telescope? That may be impressive.

JP4Fun

Big Wham needs to build an observatory.

https://cam01.sci.ucalgary.ca/AllSkyCam ... tImage.JPG

[2dimes]

That is not a photo, nor is the image from a telescope.

The link allows you to view the current image from a webcam with a wide angle lens aimed straight up under a heated dome, it's purpose to allow you to view the sky conditions, i.e. current cloud cover above the building with the telescope in it.

I keep reposting so it is easy for us to click the link and see if stars are visible there, which is a short drive from where I am, or if you can only see light from Calgary reflecting off clouds. Tends to often be clouds.

Since it is 06:26 am local time (08:26:48 CC time) you will see daylight images for about the next twelve hours clicking the link. I am not sure how you saw a daylight image if you had clicked the link when you posted. It should have been a pretty good image of our night sky. It was not cloudy over my house last night.

I saw Venus again even standing under the street lights beside our house.

I believe you could access images from the main scope there in the past, but they may have taken it off line for security. There must be some pictures, I don't have any links currently.

[betiko]

Two key words in your NASA link, Betiko:

Overview
Caltech researchers have found mathematical evidence suggesting there may be a "Planet X" deep in the solar system.

(I enlarged font for emphasis.)

JUS because something is possible does not mean it is plausible. Like many things in this world:

1) we do not know;
2) we wait for evidence of speculative or theoretical possibilities via discovery and research;
3) discovery could happen tomorrow or many years from now (e.g., the God Particle);
4) searching is part of the FUN and
5) Discovery is the "icing" on the search process.
6) Discovery takes time, energy, willingness to look, and often, LOTS of money. (See my example in 3, above.)
7) Lastly (for now) One discovery often and usually leads to even more questions.

Okay, I thought of ONE more: if the orbit is highly elliptical, then LUCK will play a HUGE role. Is the hypothetical "Planet Nine" near us now or will in get near us in another 10-20,000 years? That will dictate a lot of when, if ever, this Planet's existence is confirmed by observations. Study the discovery of the (now) dwarf planet Pluto. Perturbations of the orbits of Neptune led to the discovery of Pluto. And note that the orbit of Pluto is unique for 1) its angle of inclinations and 2) its very elliptical orbit will take it inside the orbit of Neptune (happened for some 20 years, as recently as 1989 or so; ALL this is based on my memory and may not be TOTALLY accurate), but leading the speculation of how Pluto was pulled closer to the sun

JP4Fun

Seriously, you have some reading comprehending issues or something? I started thé conversation with the phrase « what do you think of the possibility of an unknown planet in the solar system » why would that mean that in my eyes it has been discovered ? Please try to read instead of dashing head down and interpreting your own way written and clearly stated stuff... you’re kind of doing it for each of my posts so far

[2dimes]

Ok, I'm not sure why but the Rothney Observatory webcam seems to have stopped functioning properly.

The image is stuck on December 19th there. Whom ever hits the jukebox when a record gets stuck in a groove must be at home drinking egg nog and rum or something.

They might not even know it is broken. I didn't realize until I clicked it a second time today and realized it had not refreshed then read the little date and time signature on the top left.

Here is a link explaining what it should be doing.
https://science.ucalgary.ca/rothney-obs ... multimedia

Once they fix it you can click the link and see what you would see by laying on the ground there and looking up at the time you click it.

Sorry it's buggered.

[jusplay4fun]

First you seem too sensitive to suggestions that your hypothesis may be incorrect.

Second, it seems to me that you do not understand how this solar system evolved, according to the most widely held theories on that matter by most astronomers. Having a highly elliptical orbit is unusual and therefore unlikely. BUT Pluto can be a model for an anomaly; I already addressed that possibility. I provided one link further down.

Third, having a "rogue" or unusual planet in an unusual orbit or location has long been a hypothetical proposed by many with very little supporting evidence. I pointed out that your source (NASA) speaks of the highly speculative nature of the hypothesis that you are suggesting. The data is also speculative and merely a "suggestion."

So what did I not characterize properly? You asked a question, I answered; you then provided "evidence" that is at its best very speculative, and said so, and now you say I cannot read and comprehend? What did I miss that you stated?

Here is your statement, showing you do not fully understand the nature of astronomical discoveries:

The planet has to be very dark and have an atmosphere that reflects very little light to explain why it still hasn't been discovered.

It need not be "dark" as you say. Size AND distance both matter when you are looking for a an object that far from earth. The bigger it is, the closer it is to the earth, and the brighter it is, the more likely it will be seen and discovered. So it is a function several factors: 1) size, 2) amount of light reflected, 3) relative positions of both the earth and the theoretical Planet Nine, and 4) the ability of observer to discern a point of light being a planet versus a star. Since planets only reflect light and do not produce light, all these are key factors in it possible discovery. Upon further reflection by me, I would think that #3 is likely the largest factor. Again I addressed that already when I spoke of "luck" as a factor (#8) in its possible discovery. I would also conjecture that unless the planet is close to the earth that the atmosphere has only a small bearing on light reflected, but I will admit that such a comment by me is merely speculation since I am not an astronomer.

If this hypothetical Planet Nine is relatively close to the earth on its highly elliptical orbit, it will be more likely discovered soon, assuming also that enough resources and energy is devoted to that endeavor. I do not know off the top of my head the likely distance, but a 20,000 year orbit will take it a great distance from earth. I would speculate that it would be at least 200 AU from the earth at its apogee.

Also what significant event in the earth's history would be tied to a 20,000 year orbit of this proposed Planet Nine? I do not recall any such suggestion here by your assumption.

You misquoted me. I never said "that in my [your} eyes it has been discovered " Please go back and re-read what I wrote because you have mis-construed what I wrote.

Here is your quote:

why would that mean that in my eyes it has been discovered ?

Otherwise, I answered the question: It is possible and not plausible.

Again, this is from your source/URL/Link:

Caltech researchers have found mathematical evidence suggesting there may be a "Planet X" deep in the solar system. This hypothetical Neptune-sized planet orbits our Sun in a highly elongated orbit far beyond Pluto. The object, which the researchers have nicknamed "Planet Nine," could have a mass about 10 times that of Earth and orbit about 20 times farther from the Sun on average than Neptune. It may take between 10,000 and 20,000 Earth years to make one full orbit around the Sun.

Your original question, that I have already answered:

that would be an explanation to the known planets orbits all leaning the same way compared to the sun.... could it be?

I would say your speculation here is incorrect. I suggest the use Occam's razor.

As far as your angles that you asked about,

rotate around the sun over a 150° angle total... and nothing rotates in the other 210°

You do realize that nearly ALL the planets and asteroids rotate in the solar system in the same PLANE as the earth, meaning the angles are near ZERO, and NOT near 360° for a sphere or circle. So it seems to me that you do not understand planetary orbits. I already mentioned that Pluto is a bit out of alignment and that is about 20° or so, based on information I read many years ago, perhaps in one of my Astronomy classes from my undergraduate days. Pluto's orbit is slightly elongated too, but not the extent of the elongation that would or could be likely in a 20,000 year orbit. (Of course a perfectly circular orbit could also last 20,000 years, but I am referring back to the your NASA source and its speculative orbit.) And even though most planets have an elliptical orbit, as proven by Sir Isaac Newton, most are very nearly circular. Comets are the best example of bodies that orbit the sun in highly elliptical orbit. So for a planet to have a highly elliptical orbit is VERY unusual and very unlikely.

Try this URL: https://www.windows2universe.org/?page=/our_solar_system/formation.html

BUT the very last points here: a) I am not an expert and b) "Planet Nine" awaits more or any cogent evidence. c) No one really knows, hence it is possible. d) It is possible, but not plausible.

JP4Fun

[tzor]

I wish someone would have told me we were having a planet war.

Planets form from an accretion disk, so they are generally going to be along a flat plane. The inner planets follow this perfectly. Their orbits are pretty circular but not perfectly.

The asteroid belt is where a planet should have been it not for Jupiter. It's not as nice, but there's a lot more collisions out there.

The gas giants also seem to follow that pattern as well. All nice and pretty except Uranus which has a major orbital tilt of 98% to the orbital plane.

Pluto has a somewhat larger ellipse (but no where near the type of the typical comet) and is considerably tilted.

But that's it. Distant objects clearly not formed from the accretion disk are literally all over the place. 2007 OR10 could actually get close enough to Pluto's orbit.

Solar System Orbit Diagrams

[2dimes]

Carefull Tzor. You might wanna run that NASA Bologna past Neil to make sure it's right, before JP punches you in the mouth.

As for me I might be starting to work TNOs into casual conversation soon to be more annoying in real life. Murcury's rising? Never mind that. Sedna is closing with our solar system. How do you feel about that?"