Cleared .SCuD. [ka]

[shoop76]

Accused:

.SCuD.


The accused are suspected of:

Purposely missing turns


Game number(s):

Game 19294220
Game 19294219
Game 19294218



Comments: In each of these games he has 5 cards. The turn ins are still low. He is waiting for next turn so he has a higher turn in and a better chance for eliminations. He has logged in in the timeframe to take his turns but has not taken them.

[Chariot of Fire]

I know Scud well. He's more competitive than a Jack Russell with a boner. He wouldn't purposefully miss turns when holding 5 cards for a later higher trade as he's smart enough to have missed a turn when holding, say, 3 or 4 cards. Holding 5 and trading could result in a 3-carder.

The guy has recently set-up a new business and is heavily-focused on running it. If he's missed turns it's because he simply can't engage in CC to the extent he'd like.

The above aside, what's the problem with missing turns in esc games anyway? Is it contrary to any rules? If my opponents all started missing turns I'd be sending them Christmas cards!

[loutil]

I am with CoF on this one. Sitting with 5 cards only leaves you vulnerable to be taken out. Further, what rule is being broken by missing his turn?

[shoop76]

I know Scud well. He's more competitive than a Jack Russell with a boner. He wouldn't purposefully miss turns when holding 5 cards for a later higher trade as he's smart enough to have missed a turn when holding, say, 3 or 4 cards. Holding 5 and trading could result in a 3-carder.

I´m sure he is very competitive and a great player, but there is no doubt he purposely missed these turns.

The guy has recently set-up a new business and is heavily-focused on running it. If he's missed turns it's because he simply can't engage in CC to the extent he'd like.

I´m sure he is busy and I understand real life takes priority. Yet he has time to log in in the timeframe his turns were to be taken. He only has 3 active games. Why log in if you are not going to take the turns. He managed to take all his turns before he had 5 cards and then he suddenly misses all 3 turns when he has 5 cards. He is obviously taking the risk that no one eliminates him and then when his next turn comes he has a high turn in ti run the board

The above aside, what's the problem with missing turns in esc games anyway? Is it contrary to any rules? If my opponents all started missing turns I'd be sending them Christmas cards!

Yes I do believe it is against the rules to intentionally miss turns and to intentionally manipulate the cards. This used to be a problem with players starting there turns on nuclear and escalating games, playing there turns and purposely timing out so they wouldn´t have to nuke themselves or run the risk if being eliminated in escalating and the other team/player being able to take extra cards from them. CC changed those rules so even if you timeout you still get the card. This is just another way to manipulate the cards. This used to be one of those "gray" areas where half said it was ok and half were against. Obviously cc felt it was against the rules to manipulate the cards so they changed the game play.

He clearly missed the turns on purpose the gain an advantage. It happened in all 3 games. And in 1 of the premier cc events. I am not questioning his character and don't even feel like he had the intention of cheating, but more manipulating the game play or using cheap tactics. What if everyone in the game used this tactic and all we get is 8 or 16 straight missed turns?

[zeus111]

missed turns can be used as a tactic to make others fight thinking that you went db , no violations of any rules here rate accordingly and move on . were does it say missing turns are against the rules . please show me this rule , in esq spoils in early rounds many will drop or even miss a turn to gain more troops its kinda greasy in 24 hour games if a freebie is in play but like us all we have played here long time and to date i dont recall that being against the rules
be well all

zeus111.

[shoop76]

missed turns can be used as a tactic to make others fight thinking that you went db , no violations of any rules here rate accordingly and move on . were does it say missing turns are against the rules . please show me this rule , in esq spoils in early rounds many will drop or even miss a turn to gain more troops its kinda greasy in 24 hour games if a freebie is in play but like us all we have played here long time and to date i dont recall that being against the rules
be well all

zeus111.

Unwritten Rules
Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits and colluding with other players in any way to manipulate the scoring system.

It doesn't state it anywhere in those words it is against the rules, but there are unwritten rules which is not limited to. It is clearly against the rules to manipulate the game play in anyway to gain an unfair advantage.

I was expecting, that in general, most people would jump to his defense. Usually happens when high ranks are accused of something.

[zeus111]

no m8 it s not his rank at all as the rules are written hes done nothing but miss turns i assume for a higher cash in . It is a tactic ive seen many use . i just do not think he has done anything that violates our current written rules , rate his play or tactics and try to avoid games he is in . or if you feel strongly foe and move on , i see your point trust me i do but as the written rules go nothing really can be done to this member for this type of play , your post will be read and his tactics exposed but cant see any punishment forth coming

best of luck in all games !!

[shoop76]

no m8 it s not his rank at all as the rules are written hes done nothing but miss turns i assume for a higher cash in . It is a tactic ive seen many use . i just do not think he has done anything that violates our current written rules , rate his play or tactics and try to avoid games he is in . or if you feel strongly foe and move on , i see your point trust me i do but as the written rules go nothing really can be done to this member for this type of play , your post will be read and his tactics exposed but cant see any punishment forth coming

best of luck in all games !!

My hope is that this gets noted or warned and that it becomes clear that this is against site rules. That way if someone does it again there is a precedent set. I have nothing against him, and I hope he has no hard feelings against me for starting this thread. I am not here on this site to piss people off and I think in general have done a pretty good job of that. Just imagine if it was determined that this tactic is acceptable. What would happen if all 8 players had 5 cards and they decide to use the same tactic.

Its a tournament game, so even if I foed him nothing would happen.

I do believe it has to do with rank and friendships. A cook or private would not get the same support.

[zeus111]

fair enough good luck i agree it should be a rule but how do you possibly chastise a member who legit misses a turn for life reasons there is no real way to determine between the two .

[shoop76]

fair enough good luck i agree it should be a rule but how do you possibly chastise a member who legit misses a turn for life reasons there is no real way to determine between the two .

You obviously can't do it for every missed turn. But in this case it was 3 different games at 3 different times, while he had taken every turn up until then.

[.SCuD.]

Thanks lou and CoF for getting my back on this one, most appreciated. They are right too, I had a very difficult weekend with a trip I had to take to London relating to my new business set up, entertaining a potential investor. Theoretically I may have been able to sign in, I don't know, but it really wasn't appropriate.

Whether it's against the rules or not I don't know, I've never really looked at the rules! Either way, I can appreciate you may feel hard done by and whether it was within or without doesn't interest me. As you feel like this was unethical I'll answer in good faith and hopefully set your mind at ease.

I personally don't think it would be a good move to skip in a game like this, because you need a bit of luck, and playing for a lucky 3 carder that can leave you with a sweep opportunity is much better than holding on to 5 cards and making yourself an obvious target (particularly as you may be able to second sweep off someone elses failed sweep). Yes you could theoretically still second sweep, but much less likely if you were knocked down to 5 armies or something. I'm not going to "educate the enemy" too much, but there are a hell of a lot more reasons for cashing too, but they seem to be unknown to most people, so I'd prefer to keep it that way (unless you're a friend / clan or tribe member with me, then info is all yours!).

I also missed two turns in a fairly pivotal game in the final of a polymorphic tournament. The game was on a knife edge, and my missed turns cost me any chance at the win. Poly is my thing, I cared a lot more about winning that.

The last point to set your mind at ease is that I have never missed a turn with 5 cards in an escalating game before, and I've played quite a few. So to suddenly do it in 3 games is very clearly not a tactical move. It would make so much more sense to have just deployed the turn before and passed to not receive a card... why would I prefer to be 3 armies down when going in to sweep territory? (I didn't have any double pairs as far as I'm aware either, but even if I did the logic would still hold)

Again, when it comes to the rules, I don't particularly know or care. I do care that you feel hard done by, and hopefully this reply has cleared it up for you.

Either way, if enough people in that round of the tournament feel that this has given me an unfair advantage I am more than happy to forfeit or simply be removed from the competition (regardless of if it is inside or outside of the rules). I don't think I would agree that it gave me an unfair advantage, but it is the opinion of the other people in the game that matters. I suspect it would need to be ruled on and implemented by a tournament director though as there are obvious reasons that it would be unfair for me to just sit out.

No hard feelings either, I get why you want to make sure unethical play is called out

[loutil]

I did not wish to dig into the tactical implications of a miss. But, Scud is on point with his response.

[Doc_Brown]

I do believe it has to do with rank and friendships. A cook or private would not get the same support.

Shoop,
It's not about rank or friendship per se. However, when people are scanning the message board and see a C&A thread with a name they recognize, they're far more likely to come see what it's all about than if it is a name they've never seen. Just take a look at the number of views for the threads in the C&A forum. Never mind the number of replies or level of support, just look at the number of views for threads about well known players.

Anyway, my impression has long been that missing turns for a potential advantage is not against the official site rules. That's why it's explicitly called out in the major clan competitions: It's permitted on the site overall, but is not allowed in clan tournaments.

[shoop76]

Thanks lou and CoF for getting my back on this one, most appreciated. They are right too, I had a very difficult weekend with a trip I had to take to London relating to my new business set up, entertaining a potential investor. Theoretically I may have been able to sign in, I don't know, but it really wasn't appropriate.

Whether it's against the rules or not I don't know, I've never really looked at the rules! Either way, I can appreciate you may feel hard done by and whether it was within or without doesn't interest me. As you feel like this was unethical I'll answer in good faith and hopefully set your mind at ease.

I personally don't think it would be a good move to skip in a game like this, because you need a bit of luck, and playing for a lucky 3 carder that can leave you with a sweep opportunity is much better than holding on to 5 cards and making yourself an obvious target (particularly as you may be able to second sweep off someone elses failed sweep). Yes you could theoretically still second sweep, but much less likely if you were knocked down to 5 armies or something. I'm not going to "educate the enemy" too much, but there are a hell of a lot more reasons for cashing too, but they seem to be unknown to most people, so I'd prefer to keep it that way (unless you're a friend / clan or tribe member with me, then info is all yours!).

I also missed two turns in a fairly pivotal game in the final of a polymorphic tournament. The game was on a knife edge, and my missed turns cost me any chance at the win. Poly is my thing, I cared a lot more about winning that.

The last point to set your mind at ease is that I have never missed a turn with 5 cards in an escalating game before, and I've played quite a few. So to suddenly do it in 3 games is very clearly not a tactical move. It would make so much more sense to have just deployed the turn before and passed to not receive a card... why would I prefer to be 3 armies down when going in to sweep territory? (I didn't have any double pairs as far as I'm aware either, but even if I did the logic would still hold)

Again, when it comes to the rules, I don't particularly know or care. I do care that you feel hard done by, and hopefully this reply has cleared it up for you.

Either way, if enough people in that round of the tournament feel that this has given me an unfair advantage I am more than happy to forfeit or simply be removed from the competition (regardless of if it is inside or outside of the rules). I don't think I would agree that it gave me an unfair advantage, but it is the opinion of the other people in the game that matters. I suspect it would need to be ruled on and implemented by a tournament director though as there are obvious reasons that it would be unfair for me to just sit out.

No hard feelings either, I get why you want to make sure unethical play is called out

SCud, then I owe you an apology. Looking at the fact that you had been logged in the period that your turn was up and that you suddenly missed in all 3 it looked suspicious. I don´t want you to miss turns or leave the tournament. That was never my intention anyway. My intention was more for a mod to look at and say that that sort of behavior is not allowed.

Again, I apologize and wish you luck in the rest of the tourney.

[king achilles]

Thank you for the explanation.

[Chariot of Fire]

The guy has recently set-up a new business and is heavily-focused on running it. If he's missed turns it's because he simply can't engage in CC to the extent he'd like.

I´m sure he is busy and I understand real life takes priority. Yet he has time to log in in the timeframe his turns were to be taken

2019-08-14 20:43:29 - Chariot of Fire played a set of BSI Brindisi L, MOW Moscow P, and BRU Brussels B worth 1475 troops
2019-08-14 20:43:29 - Chariot of Fire got bonus of 2 troops added to BRU Brussels B
2019-08-14 20:44:12 - Chariot of Fire deployed 50 troops on VIL Vilnius N
2019-08-14 21:43:17 - Chariot of Fire ran out of time

Some of us really do have busy lives outside of CC. Imagine how I felt on 14th August in the game above! I lost 1,425 troops and didn't win a card!

What would happen if all 8 players had 5 cards and they decide to use the same tactic

On the 3rd round the player who instigated it would be the first to get booted from the game, so even CC has a system in place for such occurrences.

Anyway...I'm glad it was settled amicably. Good luck in the tourney

[shoop76]

Thank you for the explanation.

Can you, please, at least specify what the ruling might have been if a player continuously, purposely misses turns in a situation like this?

[.SCuD.]

The guy has recently set-up a new business and is heavily-focused on running it. If he's missed turns it's because he simply can't engage in CC to the extent he'd like.

I´m sure he is busy and I understand real life takes priority. Yet he has time to log in in the timeframe his turns were to be taken

2019-08-14 20:43:29 - Chariot of Fire played a set of BSI Brindisi L, MOW Moscow P, and BRU Brussels B worth 1475 troops
2019-08-14 20:43:29 - Chariot of Fire got bonus of 2 troops added to BRU Brussels B
2019-08-14 20:44:12 - Chariot of Fire deployed 50 troops on VIL Vilnius N
2019-08-14 21:43:17 - Chariot of Fire ran out of time

Some of us really do have busy lives outside of CC. Imagine how I felt on 14th August in the game above! I lost 1,425 troops and didn't win a card!

What would happen if all 8 players had 5 cards and they decide to use the same tactic

On the 3rd round the player who instigated it would be the first to get booted from the game, so even CC has a system in place for such occurrences.

Anyway...I'm glad it was settled amicably. Good luck in the tourney

God, I remember feeling very guilty about that happening in a turn when in Tofu. Thankfully we still won the game, but I missed a terribly important fort.

In this instance I have absolutely no idea how I logged in. My laptop was at home, so I suspect my wife used it and clicked in or something. Or, more likely, left it open and the 5 year old started the button whacking she likes to do (she's looking for purplemash... I need to show her how to get to it).

Gad you feel okay with my response shoop. Also, no hard feelings my side either. Things like this are rarely personal, so I certainly won't be upset with you! There is no harm in trying to make sure the game is played fairly.

I suspect I'll be out of this one soon anyway, as well as missed turns I've not been able to really do my normal analysis of any games! The odds are not in my favour

[IcePack]

Thank you for the explanation.

Can you, please, at least specify what the ruling might have been if a player continuously, purposely misses turns in a situation like this?

I don’t believe missing turns for cards was ever against the rules, and deemed a potential strategy on escalators etc. as someone else said, clans handled it diff but site wise this was always acceptable.

[Chariot of Fire]

Thank you for the explanation.

Can you, please, at least specify what the ruling might have been if a player continuously, purposely misses turns in a situation like this?

I don’t believe missing turns for cards was ever against the rules, and deemed a potential strategy on escalators etc. as someone else said, clans handled it diff but site wise this was always acceptable.

This is my interpretation of it too. Rather like shagging your neighbour's wife, the police (CC) cannot act upon it but your neighbours (other clans) will frown upon it and may take steps to stop you coming round in future.

I slept with my neighbour's wife and woke up to find all my teeth missing. I like to think the Tooth Fairy took them. [joke courtesy of Viz magazine]

[Elaterate]

Can someone get a Ban for excessive winking? Cause I personally think .SCuD. deserves a 1 week ban for all the unwanted winking he does towards me... preferably the next time we play a Poly game

[Swimmerdude99]

Can someone get a Ban for excessive winking? Cause I personally think .SCuD. deserves a 1 week ban for all the unwanted winking he does towards me... preferably the next time we play a Poly game

Yes, and ban E too, he winked at me once, and it made me feel weird inside.