Customer @#%$&**^% Service Mafia END Mafia win

[Tobikera]

I just re-read the last four pages. One thing that struck me is that Ragian is really pushing for more involvement and scum-hunting. I would not expect this from a mafia person. Easier to make mistakes if there is little discussion and then a rush to vote before a deadline. And, if there is a no lynch, then that give scum a free night shot. Ergo, I am taking Ragian off of my FOS list for the moment.

I'm a bit confused about jfm's family-orientation. I'm listed as part of it, but have no evidence of same in info received from the mod. I do agree with jfm about Razor's lynch list, as stated before, and think we need to sort out a suitable candidate from that list:

ragoo, jfm, pika, dakky, dgz....I removed aage and substituted jfm for chap as per the thread.

If I had to choose, I would choose between pika and dgz....pika because of his bulldog insistence of a policy lynch, and dgz based on a feeling, not necessarily any solid facts. Also, I note that ZaBeast is sort of hanging back, making the occasional cameo appearance, but not fully involved like he was in the other game. Perhaps that is due, in part, to the fact that he replaced Mets after D1/N1.

Since we need to do something, I will reinstate my D1 vote:
VOTE PIKA

[strike wolf]

activity has picked up. Formal proposal to the mod to extend the deadline.

@DGZ: going for a scum lynch is usually the best option. What's drawing my attention to you is you posted a good amount of fluff while not appearing to add much to the cases you backed. I read it as presenting the illusion that you are vocal without doing much.

You also just said that you were "drawing attention" to yourself and unvoted without much defense of your position which to me comes across as that you are trying to avoid scrutiny.

[Skoffin]

Vote Count
9 alive, 5 needed to lynch.

Pikanchion ---- JFM. Tobi (2)
dakky21 -------
Ragian ---------
strike wolf ----
JFM ------
blacky365 -----
dgz345 ---------
Beast ---
Tobikera ------- pika (1)


Deadline dropped for now.

[ZaBeast]

i still don't know what's best for town. a potential scum lynch or no lynch. (asking for opinions here)

The basic idea is that the only sure way for town to kill suspicious members is by lynching (town might have killing roles like vigilantes but it's not guaranteed). Therefore it is in town's interest to lynch as 1) it might be the only way to win the game and 2) It is far from guaranteed scum's NK or night action will reveal anything worthwile. I'm sure pika can link a more complete explanation though.
I will point out the fact you say a scum lynch is bad for town is worrying. The lynch of a townie is bad for town. Lynching scum is the goal.

I don't really like Dakkys play from an effectiveness standpoint but it seems more or less in his town meta from what little I remember so I won't vote for him unless something changes.

As already pointed out, my main issue with his play is he claimed VT after it was basically decided the policy lynch was a no-go, therefore I find the timing highly suspicious. His play seems consistent with his town meta, but also with his scum meta (at least in The Hobbit) so I don't see it as a reason to clear him.

Also vote dakky so it counts this time

[Ragian]

Three things:

1) unvoting because you want to avoid scrutiny is scummy. Sounds like a guilty conscious.
2) @Beast, why are you saying that dgz is saying that lynching scum is bad?
3) Voting dakky is wrong in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I think dakky needs to shape up and do something, but I've never experienced a lynchee being non-town, and I think it was rather apparent that aage was going for dakky.

[ZaBeast]

I don't really know what I was thinking when I wrote that. I think it's because he was wondering whether a potential scum lynch was better than none at all (because obviously lynching scum is better than not lynching) but now that I re-read it, I understand "potential scum lynch" also encompasses lynching town instead
Anyways unvote vote dgz Still not completely sold about dakky being town but no one will vote him anyways so might as well move to someone I find scummy that has a chance to be.

[dakky21]

I really don't know what to do as a VT. No one screams to me as scum like jfm did in last game, as I said I can read some scumtells but so far no one is jumping out of context, except maybe Pika for referring to an old game where scum won (and he was scum) because someone early claimed VT. Voting Tobi back there just for bad play (or anti-town move, call it however you wish) is scummy to me as quoting that game isn't relevant to this one at all, but gives Pika an excuse to vote someone without proper reasons.

[Ragian]

What do you think about the voting pattern from D1?

[dakky21]

What do you think about the voting pattern from D1?

I think dgz is absent with his mind like he doesn't care at all for the game, I believe that he hammered without knowing he will hammer. That may be a scumtell because scum don't care who they will vote, but they don't do the hammer as it is way too suspicious, especially like dgz played D1.

Similar as dgz, Razor had it coming as he wasn't really contributing at all and refused to contribute. So I can't draw much more from the voting pattern. I think at least one scum was on that wagon and I'll just go with my last post and

unvote
vote Pika

[Ragian]

It's strange that what everyone sees as scummy, I see as a town tell...

[dgz345]

I said before that pika and blacky are on my scum list.

The biggest reason I voted blacky was because somewhere in the back of my head
I have the idea that a potential scum lynch is better than no lynch. But as he would not be voted before the deadline and now that the deadline is removed there is no need to do a last minute push.

Tho I'll say that the blacky vote was slow. To be fair the deadline was coming up so scum would not need to vote.

Why would me or Ragian try to push lynches before a deadline if we were scum?

The reason I had blacky on my scum list is because he is a store employee.

And pika is just a gut feeling.

[Ragian]

Do you have any evidence that a store worker would be scum?

[Pikanchion]

Whatever.

Unvote: Tobikera
Vote: dakky21

[dgz345]

Do you have any evidence that a store worker would be scum?

Nope that's the flavor train.

[Ragian]

Whatever.

Unvote: Tobikera
Vote: dakky21

Not really helpful, mate...

[Pikanchion]

I really don't know what to do as a VT. No one screams to me as scum like jfm did in last game, as I said I can read some scumtells but so far no one is jumping out of context, except maybe Pika for referring to an old game where scum won (and he was scum) because someone early claimed VT. Voting Tobi back there just for bad play (or anti-town move, call it however you wish) is scummy to me as quoting that game isn't relevant to this one at all, but gives Pika an excuse to vote someone without proper reasons.

Not really helpful, mate...

Fixed that for you.

[ZaBeast]

What do you think about the voting pattern from D1?

I think dgz is absent with his mind like he doesn't care at all for the game, I believe that he hammered without knowing he will hammer. That may be a scumtell because scum don't care who they will vote, but they don't do the hammer as it is way too suspicious, especially like dgz played D1.

If dgz didn't know he was the hammer (which he admitted to not knowing), the fact he actually was is irrelevant to your argument (I don't think the premise that scum never hammers is true anyways). You can't say him not knowing he was the hammer is a scumtell, but the fact he was the hammer makes it so he can't be scum, that just makes no sense.

That's L-2 (3/5) for pika btw

I'll keep my vote on dgz for now even though pika voted dakky (as I think dgz is a more viable candidate). I have no problem voting back dakky if more people express interest.

[dakky21]

If dgz didn't know he was the hammer (which he admitted to not knowing), the fact he actually was is irrelevant to your argument (I don't think the premise that scum never hammers is true anyways). You can't say him not knowing he was the hammer is a scumtell, but the fact he was the hammer makes it so he can't be scum, that just makes no sense.

I said - normally scum would join the wagon early.. that's a voting pattern... and not be the hammer because whoever hammers is the most suspicious, but I somehow believe dgz he didn't even check how many votes was on Raz. That is irresponsible play but knowing him and meta on him makes that very possible. I would lynch him just for that, but that's pretty much same play as Razor.

[Ragian]

I really don't know what to do as a VT. No one screams to me as scum like jfm did in last game, as I said I can read some scumtells but so far no one is jumping out of context, except maybe Pika for referring to an old game where scum won (and he was scum) because someone early claimed VT. Voting Tobi back there just for bad play (or anti-town move, call it however you wish) is scummy to me as quoting that game isn't relevant to this one at all, but gives Pika an excuse to vote someone without proper reasons.

Not really helpful, mate...

Fixed that for you.

Why are you giving? Sad really...

[Skoffin]

Vote Count
9 alive, 5 needed to lynch.

Pikanchion ---- JFM. Tobi, dakky (3)
dakky21 ------- pika (1)
Ragian ---------
strike wolf ----
JFM ------
blacky365 -----
dgz345 --------- Beast (1)
Beast ---
Tobikera -------

[Ragian]

I'm not saying that Pika is doing too much to help himself, but he's my strongest town read at this point. I just can't see him push a policy lynch so vehemently and be scum. Unless, of course, he's a lyncher, too... But surely two lynchers would be too much...

[Tobikera]

I'm not saying that Pika is doing too much to help himself, but he's my strongest town read at this point. I just can't see him push a policy lynch so vehemently and be scum. Unless, of course, he's a lyncher, too... But surely two lynchers would be too much...

I'm beginning to see your point there, Ragian, and would reconsider my vote except for two things. One, as you mention, he's doing really nothing to defend himself. Two, he's at L-2, and hasn't given anything up about himself, like most folks would if pressed to that level with a potential lynch in the horizon. His "high road" approach makes him look scummy, even though his earlier persistence on a policy lynch, if successful, would have put a bullseye on his back when I turned town. However, not everyone is jumping on this ride to the gallows, so it isn't too late for him to redeem himself.

[blacky365]

I really don't know what to do as a VT. No one screams to me as scum like jfm did in last game, as I said I can read some scumtells but so far no one is jumping out of context, except maybe Pika for referring to an old game where scum won (and he was scum) because someone early claimed VT. Voting Tobi back there just for bad play (or anti-town move, call it however you wish) is scummy to me as quoting that game isn't relevant to this one at all, but gives Pika an excuse to vote someone without proper reasons. I agree, it is very difficult for me to be able to conclusively think anyone is scum or town based on what i have read so far.

What do you think about the voting pattern from D1? Generally, I think the pattern is that the hammer is rarely scum as they know better, other than this it could be anyone on the list.
Scum could have started the train or could have just jumped on board later... it is difficult to tell.

I said before that pika and blacky are on my scum list.

The biggest reason I voted blacky was because somewhere in the back of my head
I have the idea that a potential scum lynch is better than no lynch. But as he would not be voted before the deadline and now that the deadline is removed there is no need to do a last minute push.

Tho I'll say that the blacky vote was slow. To be fair the deadline was coming up so scum would not need to vote.

Why would me or Ragian try to push lynches before a deadline if we were scum? IF you were scum then why would you not push a lynch? You know your scum buddy/ies so its easy for you to railroad town into lynching town.

The reason I had blacky on my scum list is because he is a store employee. Madness that you still have me on your list despite all the talk above about flavour roles... with all the flavour discussion do you really think I would offer up this info if I was scum?

And pika is just a gut feeling.

Whatever.

Unvote: Tobikera
Vote: dakky21
As Rage said... not very helpful, and contributing to the reason why you are top of my FOS list.

Going on gut instinct, my FOS list, top 3 is;
1. DGZ
2. Dakky
3. Pika

However, simply not confident enough on any of these to place a vote, and certainly not when Pika is at L-2.

[Tobikera]

I really appreciate it when players make their responses in some other color than black. It helps differentiate things nicely. However, I would suggest they make their text BOLD and avoid orange, yellow and any other light color...hard to read. Normal to dark blue and green would be fine. Red should be reserved for communicating to the mod. Thank you for your consideration.

[blacky365]

I really appreciate it when players make their responses in some other color than black. It helps differentiate things nicely. However, I would suggest they make their text BOLD and avoid orange, yellow and any other light color...hard to read. Normal to dark blue and green would be fine. Red should be reserved for communicating to the mod. Thank you for your consideration.

noted
However, I am not much of a fan of blue as I struggle to see it sometimes... perhaps if it’s bold it will be easier to see