Closed nemapredaje and osman76 secret diplomacy?

[Extreme Ways]

I never insulted you, I just said I don't need any forms of English explaining to me by someone who doesn't speak it as a natural tongue. I could also add I don't need anyone who's first language is English to explain anything to me either. My mother is an English teacher and I've grown up with a very good understanding of the language.

Ok then I misinterpret you.

How is "we can play next turn" the same as "it's your turn"?

Where does it only say you can use the specific words "its your turn"? Notifying for Freestyle clearly is slightly different then team games, where "its your turn" can apply.
But in Freestyle, everyone but the last person can play. So "we can play next turn" is just as simple of a notification regarding that the next turn is available to be played.

I think you're missing my point. Why did osman76 say "we can play" as if it's together? It's the wording and their aim in the game at the moment - to target Mishalex - that makes this seem slightly underhand. I'm not sure why people are getting so flustered by my opinion, but whatever. I believe this is a warning since both players should at least know better and are playing with fire with their actions.[/quote]
The message itself is neutral. "We can play" has a whole different meaning than "We can play next turn" imo, but both will do. Of course, with mishalex dropping around 50 and the other two players combined 22(looking at round 6, the round BEFORE he made the wall comment) the two other players will team up in freestyle regardless of any secret messages.

I do concede that my initial assessment (both players could take their turn in fs) was wrong. Only Osman could. However, he did not wait for a response from nema to take his turn. He simply hit him up that nema could play, hoping (or checking if nema doesnt hide online status) that nema would be online.

[MagnusGreeol]

I do concede that my initial assessment (both players could take their turn in fs) was wrong. Only Osman could. However, he did not wait for a response from nema to take his turn. He simply hit him up that nema could play, hoping (or checking if nema doesnt hide online status) that nema would be online.

- Just curious, Why would Oz contact Nema to notify him of his turn? If Nema is online I imagine he would know his turn is up? If they aren't friends, why the communication at all out of war chat?

- Oz got caught up in the moment, 2 of last 3 were trying to even the score, and a mistake happened, This does not taint Oz because he is a legit player, He just got caught up in the moment. A warning for reminder and move it to archive ")

*[Edit]- Good job on the win Mish! ")

[iAmCaffeine]

I do concede that my initial assessment (both players could take their turn in fs) was wrong. Only Osman could. However, he did not wait for a response from nema to take his turn. He simply hit him up that nema could play, hoping (or checking if nema doesnt hide online status) that nema would be online.

- Just curious, Why would Oz contact Nema to notify him of his turn? If Nema is online I imagine he would know his turn is up? If they aren't friends, why the communication at all out of war chat?

- Oz got caught up in the moment, 2 of last 3 were trying to even the score, and a mistake happened, This does not taint Oz because he is a legit player, He just got caught up in the moment. A warning for reminder and move it to archive ")

*[Edit]- Good job on the win Mish! ")

I agree.

I'm not missing your point. My thoughts here is that why are they getting a warning doing something thats allowed? Just because you are reading it one way does not negate the other considerations. Posting on the wall is allowed as long as theres no diplomacy, notification of a turn (regardless of its not using the phrase you prefer to see) is still not against the rules. Unless theres something specifically for freestyle saying mentioning of when the turns jump up is against the rules, I dont see your point having any legs to stand on. Notification of a turn is allowed, its not allowed* (*only when not in freestyle) AFAIK. Though, I'm no freestyle expert so maybe there is. But I haven't seen or heard anything like that in the past cases.

You are missing my point because I've said several times that the comment is not just a simple notification of a turn, and cannot be correctly interpreted that way either.

[PurpleViper]

But as I said earlier, you can direct people to a specific game via the wall. How is this not covered by that? They weren't saying:

"Game X is up let's play, you take north I go south" they simply notified each other then next turn was up and available.

This is what I meant caffeine. You don't have to attack me cause I think something is allowed and you don't..

[iAmCaffeine]

You literally said comments on walls can't be secret diplomacy.

[PurpleViper]

You literally said comments on walls can't be secret diplomacy.

Regarding this particular comment I think that is the case yes.
Agree with the arguments IcePack and EW brought here, and again don't think this is any close to being worth a warning.

[iAmCaffeine]

You literally said comments on walls can't be secret diplomacy.

Regarding this particular comment I think that is the case yes.
Agree with the arguments IcePack and EW brought here, and again don't think this is any close to being worth a warning.

Secret diplomacy is usually discovered because people are dumb/ignorant and use wall posts, it's how most cases are found. Secret diplomacy is any discussion related to the game, outside of the game.

[PurpleViper]

You literally said comments on walls can't be secret diplomacy.

Regarding this particular comment I think that is the case yes.
Agree with the arguments IcePack and EW brought here, and again don't think this is any close to being worth a warning.

Secret diplomacy is usually discovered because people are dumb/ignorant and use wall posts, it's how most cases are found. Secret diplomacy is any discussion related to the game, outside of the game.

You'd say it's allowed to wall somebody; 'hey, your turn in game 6384682' right?
It is a freestyle game, so how is 'we can play' wrong choice of word? If they had any other contact, (regarding strategy or sth) I'd say that is SD, but the usual 'hey you're up' isn't in MY opinion.

[iAmCaffeine]

You literally said comments on walls can't be secret diplomacy.

Regarding this particular comment I think that is the case yes.
Agree with the arguments IcePack and EW brought here, and again don't think this is any close to being worth a warning.

Secret diplomacy is usually discovered because people are dumb/ignorant and use wall posts, it's how most cases are found. Secret diplomacy is any discussion related to the game, outside of the game.

You'd say it's allowed to wall somebody; 'hey, your turn in game 6384682' right?
It is a freestyle game, so how is 'we can play' wrong choice of word? If they had any other contact, (regarding strategy or sth) I'd say that is SD, but the usual 'hey you're up' isn't in MY opinion.

1. It's your turn
2. We can play

[Donelladan]

I think we should stop discussing the wording, and talk about the real question.

Is it ok to coordinate your turn outside the game chat in a freestyle game ? - that's all.


Because it is crystal clear they did. Doesn't matter if osman wrote " we can play" or "it is your turn".

Truth is obvious thanks to what happened in the game.

So osman posted : "we can play next turn"
Rather than what he post just have a look at when he posted it :

we can play next turn
https://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=17376758

User avatar
by osman76
on Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:47 pm

Now looks at the time stamp in the game :

2017-04-21 21:46:38 - osman76 ended the turn and got spoils
2017-04-21 21:46:38 - Incrementing game to round 7
2017-04-21 21:57:28 - nemapredaje got bonus of 1 troops added to Chrissy's House

Therefore when osman posted " we can play" , osman could not play

He was saying to nemapredaje, that he played, so that nemapredaje could start his turn, so that osman could play right after.

Therefore the question here is :
Is it ok to coordinate your turn with your opponents outside the game chat in a freestyle game ?

Gray area. I think osman should have wrote in the game chat, " I am here waiting for you ", and only put the game link on nemapredaje wall.

Of course one can argue it's a tiny difference. But that is always the case with SD.
You are not allowed to say in the game chat " let's make a truce" and then post one someone wall " let's make a truce" at the same time.

I don't think you should be allowed to coordinate outside the game chat. Osman should have said in the game chat what he was ready to play, so that Mishalex as well as nemapredaje would know osman was waiting to start asap. then osman should have put a game link on nemapredaje well, without saying anything.

It was SD because communication was done outside the game chat.

Btw, @IcePack:

Posting on the wall is allowed as long as theres no diplomacy

From what I have read from previous SD case, you are wrong. Any kind of communication outside the game chat is forbidden.
The only thing you are allowed to post on someone wall is " please read the chat". You aren't even supposed to write " truce offer in game chat" for example.
And ofc you can post a game link. I don't even think a "it's your turn game XXX " is allowed, especially in freestyle. Just put the game link.

[iAmCaffeine]

Like I said from the beginning..

[MagnusGreeol]

- Bravo Don ")

[Arama86n]

Damn interesting case actually.

[IcePack]

You literally said comments on walls can't be secret diplomacy.

Regarding this particular comment I think that is the case yes.
Agree with the arguments IcePack and EW brought here, and again don't think this is any close to being worth a warning.

Secret diplomacy is usually discovered because people are dumb/ignorant and use wall posts, it's how most cases are found. Secret diplomacy is any discussion related to the game, outside of the game.

You'd say it's allowed to wall somebody; 'hey, your turn in game 6384682' right?
It is a freestyle game, so how is 'we can play' wrong choice of word? If they had any other contact, (regarding strategy or sth) I'd say that is SD, but the usual 'hey you're up' isn't in MY opinion.

1. It's your turn
2. We can play

By definition, if it's standard or team game it would be

show

(singular). But because it's freestyle when it becomes one persons turn, it becomes multiple people's turn. People's. we. Multiple.

It wouldn't make any sense to say it's YOUR turn if in fact it was several people's turns. Just by fact its freestyle changes the wording from your to we.

[Arama86n]

After giving it some thought I have to say I feel that it is indeed secret diplomacy.
They have gained advantage by communicating outside the confines of game chat.

You could set a date to play in game-chat, the risk of course being that the party you are ganging up on also reads the plans and shows up to spoil the party. But that's a chance you have to take.'

The fact that they were losing the game can surely not be a valid argument? Communicating outside of game chat in order to gain advantage in game against a third party must be secret diplomacy.

Before friends and relatives jump down my throat: I'm not saying that osman76 or nemapredaje are bad people, or intended to cheat. I'm sure they are the salt of the earth, the finest gentlemen ever to wear sneakers.
I'm just saying that president should be set for future cases that this is considered secret diplomacy.

[iAmCaffeine]

Arama is bang on. This isn't the same as notifying someone it's their turn. As I said earlier, there are motives.

[IcePack]

Arama is bang on. This isn't the same as notifying someone it's their turn. As I said earlier, there are motives.

Arama is saying it *should* be against the rules and considered SD.
If that's the question, I would probably agree.

My argument is I don't believe it currently is, which is why I argued against the warning. Which is why when you said it matter it was "we" instead of "your" I responded to the emphasis you placed.

[Extreme Ways]

After giving it some thought I have to say I feel that it is indeed secret diplomacy.
They have gained advantage by communicating outside the confines of game chat.

You could set a date to play in game-chat, the risk of course being that the party you are ganging up on also reads the plans and shows up to spoil the party. But that's a chance you have to take.'

The fact that they were losing the game can surely not be a valid argument? Communicating outside of game chat in order to gain advantage in game against a third party must be secret diplomacy.

Before friends and relatives jump down my throat: I'm not saying that osman76 or nemapredaje are bad people, or intended to cheat. I'm sure they are the salt of the earth, the finest gentlemen ever to wear sneakers.
I'm just saying that president should be set for future cases that this is considered secret diplomacy.

but they didnt

[IcePack]

After giving it some thought I have to say I feel that it is indeed secret diplomacy.
They have gained advantage by communicating outside the confines of game chat.

You could set a date to play in game-chat, the risk of course being that the party you are ganging up on also reads the plans and shows up to spoil the party. But that's a chance you have to take.'

The fact that they were losing the game can surely not be a valid argument? Communicating outside of game chat in order to gain advantage in game against a third party must be secret diplomacy.

Before friends and relatives jump down my throat: I'm not saying that osman76 or nemapredaje are bad people, or intended to cheat. I'm sure they are the salt of the earth, the finest gentlemen ever to wear sneakers.
I'm just saying that president should be set for future cases that this is considered secret diplomacy.

but they didnt

Correct, he didn't say jump on skype let's play. Or any other coordinating things. Didn't set a time at all. Just told the guy his turn is ip

[GoranZ]

As far as I know the site itself provides the same feature

[MagnusGreeol]

As far as I know the site itself provides the same feature

- Gotta quote GZ on this one,

- Why would it be important to message Nema about his turn? If Nema is online he would see it's his turn?

- *Again, not tainting anyone, it's a subconscious situation that ended with intention, " Caught up in the moment", No one but Oz and Nema ended up dead ") Good job again Mish! ")>

[riskllama]

i think they should both be hanged by their necks, until they are dead. disgusting...

[Arama86n]

After giving it some thought I have to say I feel that it is indeed secret diplomacy.
They have gained advantage by communicating outside the confines of game chat.

You could set a date to play in game-chat, the risk of course being that the party you are ganging up on also reads the plans and shows up to spoil the party. But that's a chance you have to take.'

The fact that they were losing the game can surely not be a valid argument? Communicating outside of game chat in order to gain advantage in game against a third party must be secret diplomacy.

Before friends and relatives jump down my throat: I'm not saying that osman76 or nemapredaje are bad people, or intended to cheat. I'm sure they are the salt of the earth, the finest gentlemen ever to wear sneakers.
I'm just saying that president should be set for future cases that this is considered secret diplomacy.

but they didnt

Correct, he didn't say jump on skype let's play. Or any other coordinating things. Didn't set a time at all. Just told the guy his turn is ip

Osman76 response: "we can play next turn"

The above is still visible on nemapredajes wall a few pages back.
Now we're splitting hair's here, but to be honest I don't think "it's your turn" and "we can play" are the same thing.
THAT SAID: if the above evidence is all there is, I'd say CLEAR them, and set a new precedent.
It's hardly a compelling case against the accused, albeit a very interesting one.

It is my opinion that in a freestyle non-team game with more than two players, players should not be communicating with each other about when to play outside of game-chat because that good Sir's, should be considered secret diplomacy. There is no question about that in my mind.
It should be stated here for future reference by KA

I await the verdict (and hopefully reasoning behind it) with suspense

[Extreme Ways]

As far as I know the site itself provides the same feature

- Gotta quote GZ on this one,

- Why would it be important to message Nema about his turn? If Nema is online he would see it's his turn?

Why would fairman message you about your turn? Game 17361260. I find it hard to believe you dont have chatglove, if you were online you would see there's chat?

Not everyone wants to be spammed by CC for every new turn. There's also the feature to be notified on wall posts, so there's a clear argument why wall posts would notify the user outside of the game itself.

[MagnusGreeol]

As far as I know the site itself provides the same feature

- Gotta quote GZ on this one,

- Why would it be important to message Nema about his turn? If Nema is online he would see it's his turn?

Why would fairman message you about your turn? Game 17361260. I find it hard to believe you dont have chatglove, if you were online you would see there's chat?

Not everyone wants to be spammed by CC for every new turn. There's also the feature to be notified on wall posts, so there's a clear argument why wall posts would notify the user outside of the game itself.

- That war with Fairman & Me is a team war, and he's not notifying me that it's my turn, We were discussing strategy ")>