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Secret Alliance or Multi: Thomas J. and dumbodo

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Secret Alliance or Multi: Thomas J. and dumbodo

Postby bcheng1988 on Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:13 pm

These are suspected Multis or Secret Alliance:

Suspect users: Thomas J. and dumbodo

Game number: http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=458245 (458245)

Comments:

Fairly open and shut case here. Undefended borders (with continent bonuses at stake!) against each other. Haven't attacked each other to take away those continent bonuses. Haven't said anything all game, even when I asked them about the situation. So now they've forced me to resort to reporting them. Check out the game logs.

Secret alliance by PM/email/etc or multis. I'm guessing the former.

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Postby bcheng1988 on Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:24 pm

Update:

Thomas J finally spoke. He referred to him and aqua as "we" and seemed to imply that their not attacking each other and leaving their borders (and continent bonuses) unprotected was their "strategy."

Of course, I'm not against alliances and diplomacy. But, like I said before, they never announced anything in public and never said anything at all in the game until this.
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Postby AAFitz on Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:30 am

bcheng1988: quick question, green... not to sound paranoid or anything, but why is your border with aqua in West Ward 3 unfortified?
2007-06-01 20:06:12 - bcheng1988: and aqua, why did you not attack green's unfortified East+West Wards last turn and let him get the bonuses?
2007-06-03 15:39:59 - Thomas J.: Pinky, not to sound paranoid or anything,but why did you leave the others alone and go after yellow?
2007-06-03 15:46:21 - Thomas J.: Strategy? Maybe that was our reason also. You seem to be saying we are in 'bed togeather' well where do you sleep?
2007-06-03 16:19:44 - bcheng1988: leaving everything unfortified and open to attack is strategy? i guess that explains the 17% win rate. am i saying that you're cheating? well, if you cheat and still win only 17% of the time, then i pity you and think you deserve to be allowed to cheat.
2007-06-03 16:21:48 - bcheng1988: and it's curious that you referred to you and aqua as "we" and seemed to suggest that you're taking coordinated action
2007-06-03 16:22:06 - bcheng1988: not saying that alliances are disallowed here, but secret alliances are against the rules... but of course you knew that already, right? you are, after all, the king of strategy


his use of we is in direct response to your accusing them in the first place......borders go unprotected all the time...youre accusation is out of line, and hes defending both of them...way too early to be throwing out acccusations in that game...you own most of the board, so skirmishes by the other players arent very likely at this point....

youre the one ruining that game....youre jumping on accusations, and making fun of win percentages, and obviously just dont understand the game as well as you thing you do....

by the way, Thomas J is my dad...hes in his late 60's....hes an interesting chap, and im afraid to see where that chat will go, but theres no way he would have a secret alliance...theres just no way...hed rather lose every game than cheat in one....

youre the one thats gonna end up on some ignore lists in this one

also, you failed to do a little investigative work on this one...dumbodo has played all of five games, only the one with my dad...so expecting his moves to make sense is a bit unlikely at this point....

you should be a little more careful when throwing out the accusations in a game...you really have to wait till the game is over, because one of them could be setting the other up for their cards....one may not want to attack the other, since they will then lose their bonus too and be powerless to attack you who is clearly taking over the board...but now all in the game will be biased against you, understandably, so youve thrown away any real chance at seeing how it would pan out....

next time wait till its over....its the only time you can see if there was an alliance....ive had 1000 unprotected borders in this game....i have no less than a few hundred now....but the good players know its all part of the game.... youre wrong on this one...apologize now while you still can....
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Postby AAFitz on Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:44 am

sorry bcheng, i didnt realize you only played 25 games...play a few more before you post such things...ive played 1500 of them and have posted 3 cheating accusations, and always at the end of a game and when I was sure....you have not seen enough to know the crazy stuff that goes on in these...there is no predicting a players motives, and there is no way to predict a player whose finished one game...

take this advice or dont, but youll be much happier if you do...
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Postby bcheng1988 on Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:55 pm

Granted, you've played more games than I, and I appreciate your feedback, but I'd like to wait for another opinion on this. After all, one of them is your dad, so I'm not sure whether your opinion is entirely impartial.

I don't think my accusation was a stretch.

First, you're exaggerating things (which confirms my belief that you're not entirely impartial): I do not own most of the board, or even half of it, or even a third of it. I own the Plains and the River Camp. Aqua (at the time I submitted this) had all of the Great Hall, the Throne, and the entire Inner Wall. Green had both East + West Wars and all of the Outer Wall. Red and Blue also each had a continent bonus. So I don't see how I owned as much of the board as you want the readers here to believe. Maybe I need to relearn how to count? Please teach me.

Second, I DID wait, contrary to what you're trying to say here. I gave them TWO turns, and even ASKED them in the chat about it (they ignored it for a whole turn, which was why I reported them). The FACTS are: they had continent bonuses, they left their continent bonuses entirely undefended, and neither of them attack each other. And, on top of this, the power was quite balanced at that time -- there wasn't a single dominating player that they both had to fear (read my first point again).

Sorry, AAFitz, I appreciate your feedback, but I'm looking for some less potentially biased opinion here.
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Postby Anarkistsdream on Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:59 pm

It is fairly obvious to me that you were more than likely born in 1988 due to your name...

And you are gonna accuse a 60 year old man who is a well-known and established player here???

You're an idiot.
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Postby bcheng1988 on Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:07 pm

Anarkistsdream wrote:It is fairly obvious to me that you were more than likely born in 1988 due to your name...

And you are gonna accuse a 60 year old man who is a well-known and established player here???

You're an idiot.


It is fairly obvious to me that someone whose vocabulary comprises words like, "gonna" and "idiot," and who thinks that everyone should know everything about his small world (ie. Thomas J is a well-established 60-year old player -- oh, I'm sorry, I must have missed the bios section) should go get a life and get out more. Oh, and take it to Flame Wars.
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Postby Anarkistsdream on Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:11 pm

bcheng1988 wrote:
Anarkistsdream wrote:It is fairly obvious to me that you were more than likely born in 1988 due to your name...

And you are gonna accuse a 60 year old man who is a well-known and established player here???

You're an idiot.


It is fairly obvious to me that someone whose vocabulary comprises words like, "gonna" and "idiot," and who thinks that everyone should know everything about his small world (ie. Thomas J is a well-established 60-year old player -- oh, I'm sorry, I must have missed the bios section) should go get a life and get out more. Oh, and take it to Flame Wars.


I didn't know... I know AAFitz here, though, as does everyone else on this site... As he said, DO YOUR RESEARCH... Beyond that, your pseudo-intellectual behavior is annoying...

I'd tell you to go get drunk, But I don't know if you can yet... Either way, chill out.
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Postby AAFitz on Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:04 am

bcheng1988 wrote:Granted, you've played more games than I, and I appreciate your feedback, but I'd like to wait for another opinion on this. After all, one of them is your dad, so I'm not sure whether your opinion is entirely impartial.

I don't think my accusation was a stretch.

First, you're exaggerating things (which confirms my belief that you're not entirely impartial): I do not own most of the board, or even half of it, or even a third of it. I own the Plains and the River Camp. Aqua (at the time I submitted this) had all of the Great Hall, the Throne, and the entire Inner Wall. Green had both East + West Wars and all of the Outer Wall. Red and Blue also each had a continent bonus. So I don't see how I owned as much of the board as you want the readers here to believe. Maybe I need to relearn how to count? Please teach me.

Second, I DID wait, contrary to what you're trying to say here. I gave them TWO turns, and even ASKED them in the chat about it (they ignored it for a whole turn, which was why I reported them). The FACTS are: they had continent bonuses, they left their continent bonuses entirely undefended, and neither of them attack each other. And, on top of this, the power was quite balanced at that time -- there wasn't a single dominating player that they both had to fear (read my first point again).

Sorry, AAFitz, I appreciate your feedback, but I'm looking for some less potentially biased opinion here.


no problem bcheng....but you are the one who said he used the word we, so he must be guilty....little bit of a stretch there, and I never how many games you have played....youve finished 25 games....i typed all of that before I saw that....persue this as far as you want I dont care...but when I said wait to report it or mention it in a game, I meant to do it at the end of the game....not in the middle.....

If I knew you only played 25 games, i would have been a lot more helpful...I just saw your rank and assumed you actually played more....feel free to go nuts on this, or take my advice....and hold off on your judgement, and my dad doesnt care one bit....giving him something to argue about is like giving a kid candy...you enjoy yourself with it, but I did try to warn you...enjoy

and as far as being biased...if I thought he was cheating Id call him out on it, as he would call me out on it...some people just dont cheat...

this ones over because of how the game is going...teal broke his borders, and will probably eliminate him for his cards in a few rounds...red will soon be demolishing your ones that you left out there, and no doubt my dad will target you for being so forcefull in your baseless accusations...even though I actually asked him not to....so the game is ruined...and it was you who did it, not any cheaters....

and for the record, he never asked me to look at the game, i found it by accident, and though he thanked me, he did say to bud out....but if you look through my posts, you will see I do often post in situations like these, in an effort to salvage a game...It works with the reasonable people...it exasperates the situation with the unreasonable....do whatever you want, but youll end up on less ignore lists if you are reasonable
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Postby bcheng1988 on Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:47 pm

Look, you can twist and manipulate this however you want, I'm tired of arguing with you and I've already told you that while your opinion is appreciated, I'm looking for less potentially biased opinions.

Just the fact that you're still calling my accusation "baseless" shows how biased you are, despite your claim that you're trying to "salvage" the game here. I've already presented the FACTS: the two of them left undefended continent bonuses and neither of them took the bonuses from each other. This went on for two turns. I gave them a chance to respon in the chat, and they ignored me. These are the FACTS, and facts don't lie. Sorry mate.

And if you think I'm ruining the game here, think again. My accusation is clearly based on good evidence (again, FACTS!). And, like you said, your dad will "target" me for my accusations -- I'm not asking him or making him do it, he's choosing to if he does. So if he does that, then he has to take the responsibility for that choice. I'm not changing my strategies or style of play here, but if he's going to, then he has to take responsibility. And honestly, I'd think that a 60-year old would know better. That sounds like the way a 10-year old would play.

And are you seriously threatening me with putting me on an ignore list? Honestly, do you think I care about being on the ignore lists of cheaters and biased players?
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Postby Steel Panzer on Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:06 pm

let the mods sort this out :roll:


flame wars :arrow: that way if you want a debate
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Postby AAFitz on Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:03 pm

no im not threatening anything....obviously youre going on mine...i was merely explaining that others will possibly put you on theirs based on how you handle this...

the facts that you are presenting are that two players didnt attack borders for a round or two in the middle of a game while they are not the strongest players...thats why I call them baseless...also the fact that the other player has played 5 games, and is therefore likely to make any kind of move possible...and the fact that youve played 20 of them, and have no idea what you are talking about...but continue on....I really dont care...

youve shown your colors here, you went off on two players in a game, made silly accusations, made fun of one for his ranking, and arent listening to reason....enjoy the game...and Ill give you the mods decision so you dont have to wait

thomas J and dumbodo arent multies, feel free to leave the appropriate feedback as far as secret alliances are concerned...topic closed

they dont decide if there are secret alliances

good luck with it



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Postby AAFitz on Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:06 pm

Steel Panzer wrote:let the mods sort this out :roll:


flame wars :arrow: that way if you want a debate


thanks panzer, but this is actually the forum to discuss weather there is cheating in a game or not... :wink:
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Postby wacicha on Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:16 pm

the truth is very simple, when there are 3 players unspoken or not it is always you verses 2. And if you are the strongest of the 3 it is very important to knock you down. Not an alliance secret or other wise. it is the way of a 3 person board.

they are so intent on you and then you kinda question their reasoning and focus them more so on you.

I also have played a few games and have even been accused of a secret alliance in my negative feedback.

And I think you may have jumped the gun also. I am not 60 but dam close.
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Postby AAFitz on Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:40 pm

wacicha wrote:the truth is very simple, when there are 3 players unspoken or not it is always you verses 2. And if you are the strongest of the 3 it is very important to knock you down. Not an alliance secret or other wise. it is the way of a 3 person board.

they are so intent on you and then you kinda question their reasoning and focus them more so on you.

I also have played a few games and have even been accused of a secret alliance in my negative feedback.

And I think you may have jumped the gun also. I am not 60 but dam close.


yes, and it wasnt 3 players, it was four, and the other two owned the entire southern hemispere the last time I looked...but he'll figure it out in more games...possibly
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Postby DaveRH on Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:27 pm

*sarcasm* I've played Risk for years, I recently found conquer club, and it seems on this site, though secret alliances are not allowed, leaving 1 army on a continent borders with an opponent you're not aligned with is a viable and common strategy *sarcasm*
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Postby AAFitz on Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:58 pm

DaveRH wrote:*sarcasm* I've played Risk for years, I recently found conquer club, and it seems on this site, though secret alliances are not allowed, leaving 1 army on a continent borders with an opponent you're not aligned with is a viable and common strategy *sarcasm*


i have no less than ten games going right now with ones as borders and have had probably 500 or so over my games....but they are all with good players....and most have a few hundred behind the ones to back them up...this game is all about getting the other guys to kill each other... sometimes you dont hit someone for various reasons, usually fear of reprisal...sometimes because another player is getting stronger, and weakening another is just a bad idea...i could go on for a while with the scenarios...on this one I just posted, because it was my dad, and knew before I read it it wasnt cheating...he's a bit of a stickler on such things....

*sarcasm*you finished 4 games in here*sarcasm* :D
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Postby DaveRH on Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:05 pm

Risk has been around a long longer than this website. There's no way to rationalize leaving undefended borders / not capitalizing on undefended borders. Other than some sort of agreement / alliance.
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Postby AAFitz on Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:07 pm

DaveRH wrote:Risk has been around a long longer than this website. There's no way to rationalize leaving undefended borders / not capitalizing on undefended borders. Other than some sort of agreement / alliance.


sorry, youre inexperienced....read this back to yourself after 500 games in here....or get someone whos played 500 to agree with you...you think you know what youre talking about, but you dont...

but youre missing the point here...the accusation is that my dad whose 67 pmed what im going to guess is a 14 to 17 year old seeing as his name is dumbodo...on his 5th game and cheated to win an internet game...and then lied to his son about it...so he could win a few points....hes played 500 games and has a 17% win rate....he doesnt care about winning, hes just plays for fun....im not saying hes making the right moves, im saying he had no secret alliance...which he doesnt...

any more advice though, because seriously ive lost 1000 points recently...I was ranked 25 a few weeks ago...could you please give me more of your insight...it might just help...

I will go and accuse all the players in my colonels games of cheating because of their one borders now...thanks for the help... :D

*sarcasm*using sarcasm quotes is very cool *sarcasm*

again this is all pointless anyways....

mods will post not multis leave feedback as necessary....

the players who know what they are doing will look at the log as I did and know immediately if there was an alliance....but thanks for the input...check in with me on game 8 and let me know what else youve picked up in here

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=238696#gmtop
ive had one borders on europe for about 70 rounds on this one
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=310884#gmtop
for the first half of this game, i had one borders on my territory and it wasnt broken by either of the other 3 players...perhaps I had an alliance with all of them?
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=246701#gmtop
i dont think i ever had more than one army on nova scotia....another alliance

but this ones the best by far...one of the mods, and a multi hunter didnt attack my one borders and take my bonus......they must be cheaters too...lol...you may need to rethink your catch phrase there...clearly...there can be one borders without alliances...
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php#gmtop
point is, there is a way to capitalize on leaving unprotected borders and not attacking them...it happens all the time...these games are with some of the better players on the site....now either they are cheaters too, or they arent good enough to spot me cheating, or ...you dont know what youre talking about....guess which one it is...and for the record...im currently in second for points in that tourney...it was pure luck, but believe me...you cant break every bonus in every game of every player every round....unless you want to lose...every time
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