Warned betiko and fairman - Manipulating Monthly Scoreboard [ka]

[willedtowin1]

[BoganGod]

Betsy and Jokey you two medal whores should get a room. I like you both, and have played happily with you both in the non biblical knowing sort of way. This is just so silly and dumb.
Jokey, the stalking has to stop. Reporting someone for using a tactic you used yourself is just uber lame. Especially when there was a fair bit of controversy at the time about sitting within Kort, including sitting Moonchild..... You are so much smarter than you're acting right now. The more you bleat that what you did was different, the more you just look like a sore loser(which you aren't). If you didn't do the exact same thing, in everyone's eyes it was the identical twin of Betsy's action with maybe one more shirt button done up.
....................................................
Betsy, Darl please I'm begging you. Be the bigger man that you are capable of being. Please don't file a report on Jokey. Yes it could be funny, but have sympathy for those of us without a sense of humour. On the bright side, if you are convicted of the vile crimes you stand accused of, then mods will have to retroactively convict Jokey.


yours in bemused horror and shock, the gay mixed race jesus



A useful link to some clothing you could both wear that would be great for expressing your attitude to score boards.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=finocchino+t+shirt&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=638&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiKr9-JsNPQAhWHkJQKHXoBB-YQ7AkIKg&dpr=1

[josko.ri]

In addition to accusations, one more side fact.

when fairman knew that I am investigating him and betiko, he tried to "buy" me on their side by offering me a secret way about how to earn platinum bot medal easily in 1 day. Obviously Hussards like to find holes in the system and earn medals on easier way. Here is quote about what he was "offering" me, which can be found on my wall, page 7.

Come on you could easily have 3 more medals with the Bot Achivement.
Spend more time (approximatively 10 games) on this

Let's say that I know how to get the bot medal in a day (the platinium one).
Telling it to you as fair? cheat?

There is a faster way to get bot platinium medal. Check hussard's stats on this medal and you'll see that we almost all get it in 2 or 1 day.

[ancessus]

Well that's true, we have some tips to get medals!

By example i can tell you my secret for the platinum ratings:

- First you play a lot of game against different opponent
- When the game is over go back to the game
- You will find a link to rate your opponent, and here is our tips: rate every player even if you still don't know have a clue of how they play or how they communicate with other player

Easy with that tips, right? i used to rate only the winner or really bad player before knowing it. It was so slow!

[BoganGod]

In addition to accusations, one more side fact.

One day at band camp I put a flute in my

Come on you could easily have 3 more medals with the Bot Achivement.
Spend more time (approximatively 10 games) on this

Let's say that I know how to get the bot medal in a day (the platinium one).
Telling it to you as fair? cheat?

There is a faster way to get bot platinium medal. Check hussard's stats on this medal and you'll see that we almost all get it in 2 or 1 day.

This forum should be called the sharing group.

[josko.ri]

Also, Donelladan mentioned that I was doing the same with Moonchild. It is important to note, at that time, nobody lost anything because of my playing turns slower or faster nor did I get any side benefit because of that. In fact, I only lost Conqueror position shortly after that, you can see that in early February 2014 three new players earned Conqueror medal which I was holding until that time for 6 months in a row.

On the other side, betiko hugely benefited from having side agreement with fairman. He benefited with 135 points in November, and if he did not have these 135 points, he would be far behind 10th place on monthly scoreboard. So he benefited by manipulating the points because he earned the medal which was stolen from 11th placed nacho65 who honestly deserved it without manipulating with points. betiko may say that it is ONLY 10 games, but converted into points it is +135 points, which finally made huge difference by putting him into top 10 on the monthly scoreboard.

[betiko]

Well that's true, we have some tips to get medals!

By example i can tell you my secret for the platinum ratings:

- First you play a lot of game against different opponent
- When the game is over go back to the game
- You will find a link to rate your opponent, and here is our tips: rate every player even if you still don't know have a clue of how they play or how they communicate with other player

Easy with that tips, right? i used to rate only the winner or really bad player before knowing it. It was so slow!

josko is going to report you for randomly giving 5 stars to all your opponents and he is now going to start stalking your games and your ratings left, be careful!

regarding fairman... josko stop proving each time you type something in here that you are an idiot.
While discussing with you, fairman who notices you are a big medal slut, notices you still don't have your platinum bot. He is just giving you a hint to get it fast in 20 games... if you read between the lines he is suggesting that you go look for his bot games and how he got it fast. But since you're so thick, you think he's trying to buy you out of making this joke report we're now posting in. I guess he's pretty scared, he joined 10 invites and played his turns when he was up trying to beat his opponent. I'm sure he was afraid of your report, and that he decided to buy you out and did it through wall post, because that's how you bribe people, through wall posts lol

hey josko; start some 10 player bot games, those count at the same time for bronze, silver, gold and platinum medals as long as you have 1 level 4 bot opponent. See? I gladly share a tip with you to earn more medals: because I don't give a shit if you have more medals than me. My interest is to move up my medal count, and eventually have a little banter like "hey josko, you still have 3 medals to catch up on me (smiley face). You my friend, should go for a little introspection and realise that it's not very good for you, nor interesting, to stalk and harrass someone just because you want more pixelized medals than him.

[IcePack]

I don't care about monthly* scoreboard, so I'm* not going to comment* on the main argument or whether or not that was allowed or not. Truth told, I don't know.

My comment is directed towards Josko* comment about it being* against the rules to ask an opponent to play more slowly. Maybe he meant this in context of "if chasing monthly medal" only, but if making the argument its against site rules period, to ask opponents to slow turns I don't think this is correct.

I have both done and seen many ask opponents to speed or slow a turn due to upcoming vacations, or sick etc. "I'm on vacation nov 1-14, if you don't mind playing slower that would be appreciated" (or something along that lines) or "my vacation starts now 1, can we speed this up or play RT so it's done before then?"

I've seen them both, and in general I don't think either action is "against site rules", unless there's a specific caveat to only when in regards to these monthly medals.

-----

On the other side, the crown did something similar for conqueror and I believe they removed the medal from him for asking his clan mates to adjust their play. So maybe in context of medal hunting it comes into play, but for regular games does not? Idk

*Note: edited for auto corrections that were incorrect

[josko.ri]

On the other side, the crown did something similar for conqueror and I believe they removed the medal from him for asking his clan mates to adjust their play. So maybe in context of medal hunting it comes into play, but for regular games does not? Idk

I guess this is truth. We already have precedent case with TheCrown when this is ruled to be against rules, if the player in question benefits by his doing on the way that he earns a medal because of earning points in question.

[owenshooter]

um, why did you avoid my questions?

secondly,

So I have legal right to question his way of taking "extra" points for the medal

then you should hire an attorney, have him file a lawsuit in whichever court it is you believe that has jurisdiction over CC and have your say in a court of law. what LEGAL RIGHT do you have here on CC regarding points and how they are earned, etc? what laws of the land cover CC to the extent that you have a LEGAL RIGHT? that is absolutely ridiculous. you take this all way too seriously... ever hear of blitzaholic? i love the passion, but this is somewhat troubling behaviour...

eagerly waiting to hear where these legal rights are going to be showcased and in which court of law... this takes CC stalking to new levels... very sad...-Bj

[Donelladan]

On the other side, the crown did something similar for conqueror and I believe they removed the medal from him for asking his clan mates to adjust their play. So maybe in context of medal hunting it comes into play, but for regular games does not? Idk

I guess this is truth. We already have precedent case with TheCrown when this is ruled to be against rules, if the player in question benefits by his doing on the way that he earns a medal because of earning points in question.

Go read the crown case.
This has nothing to do with it.

In the crown case, some clanmates of the crown delayed finished game for many turns, and many days, with the sole purpose of reaching a very high score.
In this matter it is still a total joke that crown was found guilty, and josko wasn't btw.
But the difference was, that many clanmates of crown accepted to be held hostage by crown for many days.

So, did some people delay their already finished game for some days here ?

[riskllama]

NERD FIGHT!!!

[josko.ri]

But the difference was, that many clanmates of crown accepted to be held hostage by crown for many days.

betiko tried exactly the same. He openly asked two of his opponents in chat to be his hostages for one day, to delay their winning turns.

betiko and TheCrown BENEFITED by their manipulating the points because they have earned undeserved medal. betiko's case is even worse because consequently nacho65, who legally earned that medal, did not get his deserved medal because of betiko's manipulating the points.

When I tried to reach personal high score, I earned nothing. I did not have any side benefit of my doings. In fact, I only lost Conqueror position which I was holding until then so I only lost something but earned nothing.

[owenshooter]

*looking about nervously*

listen... i know you are hoping to bump my question so far down the thread, nobody ever sees it. however, i truly would like you to explain this comment:

So I have legal right to question his way of taking "extra" points for the medal

again, which court of law will your be presenting your legal case to? what type of lawyer did you retain? when should we expect the papers to be filed and betiko served with the lawsuit. this is all so fascinating... i believe llama said it best...

NERD FIGHT!!!

the black jesus declares this thread as frivolous and baseless... sighting old cases that are not relevant to the query at hand smacks of desperation. good luck with this...-Bj

[BGtheBrain]

FWIW: This is what should be looked at when figuring this stupid thing out.

show

Was it collusion?
Was the intent to manipulate the scoreboard?
Is this a "similar scheme"?

With Betiko's activity on this site, I would assume he was aware of prior cases and that he was aware it may not be within the rules.

But, I like Betiko, so I hope they just say cleared...

-the black BGesus has spoken

[josko.ri]

FWIW: This is what should be looked at when figuring this stupid thing out.

show

Was it collusion?
Was the intent to manipulate the scoreboard?
Is this a "similar scheme"?

With Betiko's activity on this site, I would assume he was aware of prior cases and that he was aware it may not be within the rules.

But, I like Betiko, so I hope they just say cleared...

-the black BGesus has spoken

Thanks BG for the reference. That is exactly what betiko did, colliding with fairman to artificially manipulate monthly leaderboard scores. He also tried to collide with other 2 players whom he openly asked in chat to delay their winning turns until December.

[Dukasaur]

FWIW: This is what should be looked at when figuring this stupid thing out.

show

Was it collusion?
Was the intent to manipulate the scoreboard?
Is this a "similar scheme"?

With Betiko's activity on this site, I would assume he was aware of prior cases and that he was aware it may not be within the rules.

But, I like Betiko, so I hope they just say cleared...

-the black BGesus has spoken

Well, this is the problem. Everybody thinks betiko's a nice guy and wants to see him exonerated. If it wasn't for that, it would be an open-and-shut case. The collusion is obvious, the motive is very obviously scoreboard manipulation, this is an exact parallel to the Crown case except that it's smaller in scale. But, Everybody Loves Betty, so we'll all do backflips and contortionist stunts to find some twisted rationalization that makes him innocent....

[betiko]

FWIW: This is what should be looked at when figuring this stupid thing out.

show

Was it collusion?
Was the intent to manipulate the scoreboard?
Is this a "similar scheme"?

With Betiko's activity on this site, I would assume he was aware of prior cases and that he was aware it may not be within the rules.

But, I like Betiko, so I hope they just say cleared...

-the black BGesus has spoken

the real question here; is where do you draw the line of gross abuse. Is it one game? clearly not. How can playing 1 game be gross abuse?
Now playing 100? obviously, that is a gross abuse. The crown had probably a hundred games started at once and over a large period of time.
What I did was starting 10 games against a friend. There is no clear limit set by mods here. While we would all agree that 1 game is not an abuse, and 100 games is an abuse: my own moral standard told me that 10 games is fine. Also take into consideration that I was lucky enough to win 7/10 against fairman. Had I won 3/10 i doubt there would be all this fuss: and we all know how 1v1 games (in this case the setting was all standard settings; random map).
This is a fucking gaming site people. You make friends and play with some people for years. Playing a challenge of 10 random maps against my friend fairman with some healthy rivalry was really fun. f*ck off to anyone who thinks he can dictate me who and when I'm allowed to play against friends on a site where I've paind a fucking membership to play as much games as I want.
As I said before, josko has really pissed us off with fairman with all his harrassment, and his personal rules.

I also would like to know how on earth jackass.ri thinks that nacho guy deserved this scoreboard more than me. By the way, I'm 8th and I'm pretty certain that josko hasn't checked other people's games in the top 10; just mine. YOU CAN'T BLAME ME FOR BEING TOO SEXY, GET OVER IT. WORK YOUR OWN SEXYNESS, DON'T TRY TO FIGHT MINE!!

[Donelladan]

But the difference was, that many clanmates of crown accepted to be held hostage by crown for many days.

betiko tried exactly the same. He openly asked two of his opponents in chat to be his hostages for one day, to delay their winning turns.

betiko and TheCrown BENEFITED by their manipulating the points because they have earned undeserved medal. betiko's case is even worse because consequently nacho65, who legally earned that medal, did not get his deserved medal because of betiko's manipulating the points.

When I tried to reach personal high score, I earned nothing. I did not have any side benefit of my doings. In fact, I only lost Conqueror position which I was holding until then so I only lost something but earned nothing.

So, it is only the result of the doing that matter, not whether something is wrong or not ?
It doesn't matter that you earn something or not, if it is against the rule, it is AGAINST the rule. Period.

But anyway, Crown case and betiko case are different.
You maybe did not read what I say, or you didn't get it, or you didn't care because you are blind.

Btw, I am still waiting for your apologies for your outright lie when you said that MoonChild didn't delayed the games against you ( I proved he did with obvious evidence).
So please, apologize for lying.

Now, going back to the Crown case.
In the crown case, they didn't simply wait 23h to play their turns ( which is allowed ), they kept playing a finished game for several turns, and several days.
They artificially prolonged a game.

Now playing your game after 23h59 min have passed is allowed, and betiko is allowed to do so.

You accused betiko and fairman to manipulate the scoreboard, but I have shown alredy that fairman did not delay his turns to help betiko.
But even if he did, he would be allowed to do so, because anyone can play their turns when they see fit, as long as it is within 24h.

Now had fairman and betiko keep playing for days a game in which fairman had only one region, and betiko had the whole map, and they kept playing those games for day waiting the last minute for betiko to win them, then it would be crown's case.

You got that it isn't now ?

And as IcePack nicely point out, everyone can ask anyone to play slowly, it is NOT against the rule.

You cannot made up rules.

As it has been rule in joko's case:

Manipulate is to handle, control or influence a situation. In this case it was score. The question is did he break the rules? I could not find where josko.ri broke any rules. Don't we alL manipulate our score by trying to win a game? This is a casual website where you can take up to 24 hours for your turn. josko.ri is CLEARED.

If someone need to know josko's case was about playing faster or slower the game.

[Donelladan]

FWIW: This is what should be looked at when figuring this stupid thing out.

show

Was it collusion?
Was the intent to manipulate the scoreboard?
Is this a "similar scheme"?

With Betiko's activity on this site, I would assume he was aware of prior cases and that he was aware it may not be within the rules.

But, I like Betiko, so I hope they just say cleared...

-the black BGesus has spoken

Thanks BG for the reference. That is exactly what betiko did, colliding with fairman to artificially manipulate monthly leaderboard scores. He also tried to collide with other 2 players whom he openly asked in chat to delay their winning turns until December.

Evidence that fairman colluded with betiko please ? Didn't see any.
That they start 10 games together isn't an evidence fairman did anything wrong.
That fairman played ALL his game very fast isn't an evidence.
The only evidence is that betiko slowed down his own turn in the game he was losing, which is allowed.

So unless you are telling us playing RT game isn't allowed anymore, or playing game with a friend isn't allowed anymore. There is definitely not evidence of what you are saying.

Plus, even if they did, they didn't cheat, as they are allowed to play their turn within 24h whenever they want. See my EvilSemp quote.

[betiko]

FWIW: This is what should be looked at when figuring this stupid thing out.

show

Was it collusion?
Was the intent to manipulate the scoreboard?
Is this a "similar scheme"?

With Betiko's activity on this site, I would assume he was aware of prior cases and that he was aware it may not be within the rules.

But, I like Betiko, so I hope they just say cleared...

-the black BGesus has spoken

Well, this is the problem. Everybody thinks betiko's a nice guy and wants to see him exonerated. If it wasn't for that, it would be an open-and-shut case. The collusion is obvious, the motive is very obviously scoreboard manipulation, this is an exact parallel to the Crown case except that it's smaller in scale. But, Everybody Loves Betty, so we'll all do backflips and contortionist stunts to find some twisted rationalization that makes him innocent....

duke: you fastposted me but answer this simple question.

1 game = gross abuse?
100 games = gross abuse?

there is a line somewhere right? My standard being 10 (again, winning 7/10 games against a worthy opponent is not the normal standard and i had an over the average luck in those games)

What isn't said enough here, is that have played a high number of speed games yesteday and that I won almost all of them; I also joined a large number of games against random opponents to catch up on other people. Jackass.ri just doesn't want me to win that medal so he has been stalking all my games, secretly hoping to see me lose more of them, and he is pretty pissed because I managed to land on my feet.
Last month (november) I had won a battle royale amongst other things; and at some point I had too much advance and I was too high in the silvers. As I already won a silver, and I was only aiming for bronze that I had never won; I started rushing some losses to be within the bronze range. I've been a bit too optimistic, and by purposley droping I ended up below the bronze. So I had an interesting finish, trying to climb up the scoreboard in the last 3 days while others started cashing their wins too. At the end of the day this is a race, and I won. The latest created games always have people online ready to play RT, so I joined all I could like that and managed to finish and win a lot of games. Jackass.ri is just pissed cause he saw me fall from first place, to silver, to bronze, to nothing.... and saw me comming back up. That's what makes him think it's undeserved!

[owenshooter]

What isn't said enough here, is that have played a high number of speed games yesteday and that I won almost all of them; I also joined a large number of games against random opponents to catch up on other people. Jackass.ri just doesn't want me to win that medal so he has been stalking all my games, secretly hoping to see me lose more of them, and he is pretty pissed because I managed to land on my feet.

Last month (november) I had won a battle royale amongst other things; and at some point I had too much advance and I was too high in the silvers. As I already won a silver, and I was only aiming for bronze that I had never won; I started rushing some losses to be within the bronze range. I've been a bit too optimistic, and by purposley droping I ended up below the bronze. So I had an interesting finish, trying to climb up the scoreboard in the last 3 days while others started cashing their wins too. At the end of the day this is a race, and I won. The latest created games always have people online ready to play RT, so I joined all I could like that and managed to finish and win a lot of games. Jackass.ri is just pissed cause he saw me fall from first place, to silver, to bronze, to nothing.... and saw me comming back up. That's what makes him think it's undeserved!

Wonderful defense... i hope it holds up in a court of law...

So I have legal right to question his way of taking "extra" points for the medal

Still waiting for this to be explained!!! that has to be the most ludicrous thing EVER posted in C&A, excluding that dude that threatened federal lawsuits against every member that dared to post in a C&A thread about him... wow... this is so beyond ridiclous... this is right up there with every thread about me in the past 2 weeks...-Bj

[Donelladan]

The collusion is obvious, the motive is very obviously scoreboard manipulation, this is an exact parallel to the Crown case except that it's smaller in scale.

Definitely not, go read the Crown case, I already replied on it ( I missed the Duk answer on my reply ), it has nothing to do with it.
And it has nothing to do with the scale. In Crown's case they ARTIFICIALLY prolonged games. They didn't simply wait 24h to play games, they kept playing already finished game. Not the case here. Not the same. Sorry, not at all. Read the case again.

Maybe you need a link ?

viewtopic.php?f=239&t=199293&p=4356519&hilit=Crown#p4356519


Or some quote from the case ?

Held over 300 games hostage so he could win all of them at one time and shoot his score up 3000 points, therefore winning the monthly leaderboard for november...

this truly means nothing and his score will drop back down very shortly... however he did manipulate the monthly leaderboard and should be disqualified from the prize... as well as a warning for holding games hostage... if neither of those things are done then THAT leaderboard will become as dumb as the total points leaderboard... because he only did this with 500 games or so... in a month using tiny maps you could do this with thousands of games and get your score up to 10k

Some of these were against normal players and he just waited 24 hours to take his turn... but others were against clanmates and they'd just stack and wait and stack and wait... these people should be warned as well...

[Donelladan]

Note : the josko case happened just after crown's case and both were compared. THe question about colluding was brought in the josko case.
Since I making the point that betiko's case is, if anything, similar to josko case, but definitely not to crown's case I'll bring some quote from josko's case, who was cleared based on the EvilSemp's quote I gave several time, which basically says, anyone can take as long as they want to play their turn as long as it is within the 24h allowed time.

First, proof that josko asked people to play faster when he was winning the game. ( josko showed proof that here betiko asked people, not fairman though but the other 3 games, to play slower when he was losing so there is an obvious similarity).

We have to decipher what this is. Is it scoreboard manipulation, or is it something more. Another thing to consider is it a road we want to keep open? My opinion is josko.ri has done nothing wrong here. He played all of his turns within the allotted time constraints. He did play all his winning games very fast, and all his losing games very slow. I played many of those games and at no point did he ask me to play slower. He did ask me if I wanted to plat RT in the games he was winning, which I see no problem in. I believe this report has no place here but maybe in the suggestion forums. My worries are simple, if I really wanted to I could manipulate the scoreboard, get my conqueror medal, and then go back down the board. I would simply do the exact same thing that josko.ri did. Is this an accepted process as far as rules, I think so. Is this an accepted practice as far as respect from other players, not at all. If I get there, I don't want to instantly have a report such as this. Josko.ri is best player on CC, so let him be.

Now, here is josko pointing out the difference between Crown and him. Josko was defending himself :

I played many of those games and at no point did he ask me to play slower.

And this was also practice with every other player including Moonchild. I let every player do their turns as slow/fast as they want. If Moonchild or anyone else chose to play his turns slower it is his free choice.
If I know that my friend is going for his high score, I would also slow down my turn. For example I did it in this game by playing 20 hours in last turn:

Game 13144144
2013-09-13 12:11:54 - universalchiro: wait as long as you can before taking turn. I'm enjoying 2nd place

So did in your opinion universalchiro also abused rules because he asked me to play my turn as longer as possible because he is enjoying his 2nd place?

Once again to repeat, I did not make agreement with any player that they slow their turns. If someone did, it is only their own choice of using their own time.

Also, core difference between what TheCrown did and what I did is strategy related. He sabotaged strategy and I did not. If your opponent has 1 region left and you either miss turn or deploy but purposedly do not kill him, then strategy is sabotaged because he purposedly did not end games which he could end. Different than him, I was always doing my the best strategic move which I could manage, both in winning and in losing games.

Open and shut case. betiko did not do anything like TheCrown.

Can we move forward now ?



EDIT :
let add some KA quote from josko case :

Was there any collusion between the players on how the game should end?
Has josko.ri intentionally missed any turns or held any games hostage or delayed any games that should have ended already?
If not, then I don't see how this is similar to the other past case.

Careful with the first line, you need to read it till the end.
Because in josko's case, there was minor colluding with other players to delay the game, as I already prove with MoonChild and Great-Ollie. But not to alter the end of the game.

The monthly scoreboard is intended to give recognition to those who have made achievements and have been active in the games on a monthly basis. Unfortunately, this may have also resulted in people trying to find ways on how quicken or delay ending games. If you have 24 hours to take your turn and you do make use of that 24 hour time frame, that will not be be cheating. There is no obligation for players to take their turns as fast as they can either. If it's a casual game, then you can take your turns when you are most comfortable. We do have the rules to guide us but there are grey areas that is stuck in neither being wrong or right.

[owenshooter]

Open and shut case. betiko did not do anything like TheCrown.

Can we move forward now ?

slow down there, big guy!! he still has the right to be heard in a court of law...

So I have legal right to question his way of taking "extra" points for the medal

as soon as judge judy drops the gavel, we can move forward...-Bj

tell 'em, Judy!!