CL8 Discussion Area

[loutil]

I feel it is important to remind many of you...We are playing a GAME. This is NOT real life. Competitive? Yes. Fun? Hopefully. Worthy of all the BS above this post? I do not think so. Life is way to short my friends. Pick battles that are worth winning and let the others go.

[PaulatPeace]

Without rehashing every little detail, we are not "denying the right for TOP to choose its own 1st and 2nd Contacts", as you've indicated.

This is simply not true! TOP decided they wanted me to be their 1st Contact for the CL 8. If I was not allowed to be 1st Contact, then they want me to be the 2nd Contact. TOP is indeed being denied the right to choose it's own 1st and 2nd Contacts. TOP's first choice for both Contact positions is being denied! Plain and simple fact!

Impartial statement:

Logically, "denying the right for TOP to choose its own 1st and 2nd Contacts" would mean that the CD's are telling TOP exactly who their contacts MUST be with no alternative option.

The act of the CD's limiting TOP's options (by not allowing P@P to be contact) is not "denying the right for TOP to choose its own 1st and 2nd Contacts".


IN fact, a clan's choice for 1st contact is actually already limited by the written rules on who can receive privileges because the player receiving privileges must be premium.
By TOP's "logic", the CD's are "denying the right for ALL CLANS to choose its own 1st and 2nd Contacts" because the player receiving privileges must be premium.

Your "Logic" is inherently flawed!

Paul

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Re: CL8 Discussion Area

Postby PaulatPeace on Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:25 pm

loutil wrote:I feel it is important to remind many of you...We are playing a GAME. This is NOT real life. Competitive? Yes. Fun? Hopefully. Worthy of all the BS above this post? I do not think so. Life is way to short my friends. Pick battles that are worth winning and let the others go.

I am sincerely sorry you feel this is "BS". In reality, everything that is done here is representative of who we are in Real Life.

Principles are being violated and injustice is rampant in many of the decisions made by those in power positions. If these things are not important to you...that is certainly your choice to make.

It has been asked "What makes The Omega Pantheon different?" Here is one reason....We take these things seriously!

Paul

[Keefie]

You are also being VERY frugal with the truth Paul.

You didn't receive a ban for that one PM. It was your behaviour over the course of the weekend when this all blew up, that was the problem. To say that Admin sat on their hands and just let the CD's deal with it is also not true. Admin were 100% in support of the actions of the CD's.

What has happened has happened. All this thread will do is deepen existing feelings and allow this issue to continue to fester, which benefits nobody. It's water under the bridge and should be treated as such.

[PaulatPeace]

You are also being VERY frugal with the truth Paul.

You didn't receive a ban for that one PM. It was your behaviour over the course of the weekend when this all blew up, that was the problem.
You may be somewhat misinformed Keith....but my PM to Lindax after he responded to my first PM in a rude and disrespectful manner was indeed the reason he removed me as 1st Contact. It was immediately after my PM to him that he handed down his "punishment". I'm not sure what you have been told, or if you have your facts confused, but this IS the reason and the only reason!


To say that Admin sat on their hands and just let the CD's deal with it is also not true. Admin were 100% in support of the actions of the CD's.
I can tell you this Keith...In speaking with King Achilles and bigWham both about this, it was made clear to me that the individuals making the decisions in the Clan Department were volunteers, their rulings needed to be "respected", and it would be inappropriate to override their decisions!
I have saved their communications with me and I am not exaggerating. It is clear that the Clan Dept., the Admins and the Owner all don't want to step on each others toes. You can call this "100% in support"....I call it something else.

What has happened has happened. All this thread will do is deepen existing feelings and allow this issue to continue to fester, which benefits nobody. It's water under the bridge and should be treated as such.
It would have been water under the bridge....I wanted it to be water under the bridge....but Lindax would not let it be!!! You know this is true!

Paul

[iAmCaffeine]

Why don't you post some proof then Paul?

[macken]

Clans or War Contacts who abandon or are removed from Clan Tournaments may lose clan gaming privileges....

Those paragraphs are under the topic of Clan Tournament Priviledges, so it's referencing whether you abandon an event or had the priv's removed. Which he did have those priv removed.

These phrase says the cause (abandon or be removed) and the punishment (lose clan gaming privileges). That not was the cause which we are talking.

I'm asking for the rule wich expresses the cause which Paul was sanctioned, if it exists.

I've highlighted the section you seem to be missing. Paul had his priviledges removed during CL7, the punishment for that is loss of priviledges for CL8. The paragraph I showed you & the post linked deals with that issue regarding loss of priv's.

I'm sorry you are having difficulties understanding it, as I said maybe Paul or TOP leadership can help explain it to you.

IcePack, I understand these phrase, and is fot this that I ask for it.

"Clans or War Contacts who abandon or are removed from Clan Tournaments may lose clan gaming privileges..."

Who are removed from Clan Tournaments

Not says who have removed his privileges,.... because can't be cause and punishment at same time.

And the punishment was in CL7 and remains still, are not a new punishment.

And repeat, Paul was not removed from Clan tournament, so these phrase not apply here.

[MagnusGreeol]

- Here is some truth for the chuck wagon gang,

- I know people who can't stand to listen to others complain about a problem or issue in their life that's going on, They make it like "Oh your such a complainer", But then when they have a problem or issue they want everyone to listen to them? With some people, what's good for the goose is not good for the gander, ok when they want to make a big deal about their issues, but not ok for others.

- Quote from Serbia, "Bollocks"

- As for the coffee kid, "You want the proof!!", " You can't handle the proof!!"

-\MGM/-♎

[willedtowin1]

This topic of Paul should be in a separate Post. How many times do we need to hear this?
"Seriously" This He said/ She said pissing match is a waste of our time.
OSA is readying for battle...............

[IcePack]

IcePack, I understand these phrase, and is fot this that I ask for it.

"Clans or War Contacts who abandon or are removed from Clan Tournaments may lose clan gaming privileges..."

Who are removed from Clan Tournaments

Not says who have removed his privileges,.... because can't be cause and punishment at same time.

And the punishment was in CL7 and remains still, are not a new punishment.

And repeat, Paul was not removed from Clan tournament, so these phrase not apply here.

Macken,
You might understand the phrase but you either don't understand or are not considering the context. That particular section is talking about whether a clan leader abandons tournament priv's or has those priv's removed (not an individual being removed from a tournament, but in reference to their privs).

I didn't write the paragraph, but it's been a long understood context for priv holders. If we need to clarify we can adjust the wording to help you understand it.
Thanks
IcePack

[rockfist]

In all of my competitive career, in both athletic and non-athletic competitions I've never, ever seen an official reverse a call because the side who felt aggrieved by the call argued about it being unjust (setting aside instant replay). In any close call its almost inevitable that one side feels aggrieved. If officials reversed calls the game/competition would become constant arguing and chaos - it would eventually cease to exist.

I learned early on that I could be upset about a call made and I could say that, respectfully without cursing, but to understand it would not be reversed and that for me to dwell on it would only result in punishment for me and or me not focusing enough on the game and playing below my potential.

TOP is wasting the Clan Directors and Clan volunteers time by continuing to argue this point endlessly, that is what is different between TOP and the rest of the clan world. Have some respect. Let it go.

* Disclaimer - this represents my personal opinion. I did not consult with anyone else in TOFU and am not speaking on behalf of TOFU.

[PaulatPeace]

In all of my competitive career, in both athletic and non-athletic competitions I've never, ever seen an official reverse a call because the side who felt aggrieved by the call argued about it being unjust (setting aside instant replay). In any close call its almost inevitable that one side feels aggrieved. If officials reversed calls the game/competition would become constant arguing and chaos - it would eventually cease to exist.

I learned early on that I could be upset about a call made and I could say that, respectfully without cursing, but to understand it would not be reversed and that for me to dwell on it would only result in punishment for me and or me not focusing enough on the game and playing below my potential.

TOP is wasting the Clan Directors and Clan volunteers time by continuing to argue this point endlessly, that is what is different between TOP and the rest of the clan world. Have some respect. Let it go.

* Disclaimer - this represents my personal opinion. I did not consult with anyone else in TOFU and am not speaking on behalf of TOFU.

We were ready to "let it go". I offered to "let it go" I reached out in respect and kindness to Lindax several times to effect this exact remedy!

The problem is not that TOP will not "let it go"...it is that Lindax chooses not to.

There was no "Close Call" in our CL 7 experience. It was sincerely and simply a matter of Lindax feeling he had been disrespected (while he himself was disrespecting us) and chose to exert his authority arbitrarily to satiate his own ego! Nothing more...nothing less! No rule had been broken...no infraction...no violation.....just mean spirited ego-maniacal abuse of power!

If TOP defending itself against this continued abuse is a waste of your time......then leave this thread....no one is twisting your arm to read it!

Paul

[macken]

IcePack, I understand these phrase, and is fot this that I ask for it.

"Clans or War Contacts who abandon or are removed from Clan Tournaments may lose clan gaming privileges..."

Who are removed from Clan Tournaments

Not says who have removed his privileges,.... because can't be cause and punishment at same time.

And the punishment was in CL7 and remains still, are not a new punishment.

And repeat, Paul was not removed from Clan tournament, so these phrase not apply here.

Macken,
You might understand the phrase but you either don't understand or are not considering the context. That particular section is talking about whether a clan leader abandons tournament priv's or has those priv's removed (not an individual being removed from a tournament, but in reference to their privs).

I didn't write the paragraph, but it's been a long understood context for priv holders. If we need to clarify we can adjust the wording to help you understand it.
Thanks
IcePack

This paragraph does not agree with what you're saying, or with the sanction to Paul. I put the whole section to help the explanation and understanding:


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [Official] Clan 'How To' Guides
Postby Keefie on 21 Aug 2016, 18:13

Clan Challenge Privileges

Penalties:

Abuse of privileges and/or Misuse: 6 Month to 12 Month clan gaming privileges ban for player, length of duration at the clan directors' discretion, plus those players who knowingly participate in a clan war that they know is not valid. Using another person's account to run a war will also result in a ban of clan privileges. If the problem is so pervasive, a full clan ban on gaming privileges could be put into place for the violating clan.

Abandoned Clan Wars: Clans that abandon a challenge will lose clan gaming privileges for 3 months at the clan directors' discretion.

Abandoning or Removal from Clan Tournaments: Clans or War Contacts who abandon or are removed from Clan Tournaments may lose clan gaming privileges for a predetermined length of time, length of duration at the clan tournament director's discretion, or for future tournaments.

Once the terms of the war are documented, and both contacts are noted in the thread, please post in here to obtain game creation privileges, with both names and the link to the war thread.

The CDs retain full and absolute discretion to deny privileges should they determine that any event/war would not be in the best interest of clans as a whole.

This policy and procedures manual will be updated accordingly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will schematize to make it look completely clear. Since it seems that everyone interprets it differently.

1.- FACTS: Abuse of privileges and/or Misuse ---> PENALTY: 6 Month to 12 Month clan gaming privileges ban for player, length of duration at the clan directors' discretion, plus those players who knowingly participate in a clan war that they know is not valid

2.- FACTS: Using another person's account to run a war ---> PENALTY: ban of clan privileges

3.- FACTS: If the problem is so pervasive (1 and 2) ---> PENALTY: a full clan ban on gaming privileges could be put into place for the violating clan

4.- FACTS: Clan Wars: Clans that abandon a challenge ---> PENALTY: will lose clan gaming privileges for 3 months at the clan directors' discretion

5.- FACTS: Clan Tournaments: Clans or War Contacts who abandon Clan Tournaments ---> PENALTY: may lose clan gaming privileges for a predetermined length of time, length of duration at the clan tournament director's discretion, or for future tournaments

6.- FACTS: Clan Tournaments: Clans or War Contacts who are removed from Clan Tournaments ---> PENALTY: may lose clan gaming privileges for a predetermined length of time, length of duration at the clan tournament director's discretion, or for future tournaments

All the penalties are: lose clan gaming privileges

The PENALTY apllyed to PAUL was lose clan gaming privileges
The FACTS whereby Paul was sanctioned are no in that list above....

What you say all the time would be a type of rule similar to this:

The War contacts that discuss a decision * may lose clan gaming privileges for a predetermined length of time, length of duration at the clan tournament director's discretion, or for future tournaments
* This or something similar. The real FACTS that origin all this, those who are

But this rule are not wrote or at least you not put here when I ask where are it.

The rules must be clear and concise, to be followed. An unwritten rule can not be followed, nor can it be sanctioned.
Sanctions should be based on compliance with the foregoing.

Here everyone is participating in tournaments and the rules and their application concerning them, and this is a common interest. Even if someone does not like all this issue, he is free to go elsewhere, not read this, or not paying attention, not problem. In the futur, if these people have a problem or question about all this,... someone will attend them.

I will not pursue the matter. This is my last post about it. I think I've been clear enough in my exposition. I have not other interest that clarify all this.

[Keefie]

Gentlemen,

Enough.

Anymore personal attacks on individuals will result in this thread being locked and any attempt to revive it in another will get the same treatment.

ALL decisions in this case were taken by the WHOLE CD Department and in some cases ADMIN. Singling out one person for attack is unacceptable. Any attempt to argue against this FACT will also get the thread locked.

K

[PaulatPeace]

Gentlemen,

Enough.

Anymore personal attacks on individuals will result in this thread being locked and any attempt to revive it in another will get the same treatment.

ALL decisions in this case were taken by the WHOLE CD Department and in some cases ADMIN. Singling out one person for attack is unacceptable. Any attempt to argue against this FACT will also get the thread locked.

K

I would be very pleased if the personal attacks against TOP & myself stopped!

I am however sorry that you feel the only way to deal with facts arguing a valid point is to lock down a thread! But that's ok...it won't be the first time!

Paul

[IcePack]

Locked, pending review by Admin.

[bigWham]

Locked, pending review by Admin.

To PaulAtPeace:

This needs to stop, now.

You have been penalized for prior infractions related to CL7. Admin, and I personally, are in full support of these actions, and I support our CD Team in their handling of it.

I appreciate you do not agree with the decisions made. That is your right, and it is also your right to protest in public and offically, both of which you have done.

At some point, however, we have to move on.

CC is a community driven website, and the Clan Team are people giving their own time to try and organize events for the Clan community as a whole. I assure you, though you may have personal dispute with them, they care deeply about CC and the Clan world particularly. They put in a LOT of work creating and managing events, as well as dealing with issues that arise. They may not get everything right, but they are doing their best overall, and without asking for much in return.

I simply can't ask them to keep having to deal with these same issues over and over again.

We have to move on.

CL8 will be a fresh start for all involved and should be treated as such. I can only suggest you put your energies into competing on the playing field and respect, if not agree, with the decisions made in the past. That will be your best path for having a positive impact for you, for your clan, and for CC, going forward.

If we cannot move on from these issues, or if new, similar issues, persist in coming up, then steps will have to taken at the Admin level for the benefit of the community as a whole. It is just too disruptive for everyone, and to the detriment of the community overall, for this issues to persist.

So, let's focus on the fun of competing, the challenge of the game, and try and keep a positive vibe going in the community.

bW

[PaulatPeace]

Unread postby bigWham on Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:38 pm


To PaulAtPeace:

This needs to stop, now.

You have been penalized for prior infractions related to CL7. Admin, and I personally, are in full support of these actions, and I support our CD Team in their handling of it.

I appreciate you do not agree with the decisions made. That is your right, and it is also your right to protest in public and offically, both of which you have done.

At some point, however, we have to move on.

CC is a community driven website, and the Clan Team are people giving their own time to try and organize events for the Clan community as a whole. I assure you, though you may have personal dispute with them, they care deeply about CC and the Clan world particularly. They put in a LOT of work creating and managing events, as well as dealing with issues that arise. They may not get everything right, but they are doing their best overall, and without asking for much in return.

I simply can't ask them to keep having to deal with these same issues over and over again.

We have to move on.

CL8 will be a fresh start for all involved and should be treated as such. I can only suggest you put your energies into competing on the playing field and respect, if not agree, with the decisions made in the past. That will be your best path for having a positive impact for you, for your clan, and for CC, going forward.

If we cannot move on from these issues, or if new, similar issues, persist in coming up, then steps will have to taken at the Admin level for the benefit of the community as a whole. It is just too disruptive for everyone, and to the detriment of the community overall, for this issues to persist.

So, let's focus on the fun of competing, the challenge of the game, and try and keep a positive vibe going in the community.

bW

To bigWham,

You are the owner of this site...so you obviously have the final say and I do respect that this is a fact!

I am sure you are aware that I did indeed "stop" my dispute regarding the CL 7 issue and did in fact make several efforts to reconcile with the Clan Department and Lindax in particular. I am sure you are also aware that the CL 7 issue was reopened by Lindax with his refusal to allow TOP to choose me as their 1st or 2nd Contact for the CL 8 Tournament. By doing so, he was the one refusing to "stop now and move on"! It was no me!

I personally am done with this issue, so you need not be concerned about further "disruptions". I have pointed out facts, which many have come to recognize as the truth. That is sufficient for me.

I do not agree with the decisions made in the past or currently...and I do not respect them! I do however accept that I cannot change them.

I am confident that the Clan Team put in a lot of work creating and managing events, as well as dealing with issues that arise. I also believe they care about CC in their own way and for whatever reasons they may have. What they have done however is to set themselves up as dictators to the rest of the clan world while also taking on the roles of judge, jury and executioner without any checks and balances provided to assure fairness and justice. They monitor themselves and set a system in place where they allow themselves great "discretion" in assessing violations and handing out punishments. If that wasn't enough, they then add that they can change and modify the rules as they see fit, whenever they choose. If you feel the use of the word "dictator" is inaccurate...simply review the comments at the beginning of the CL 8 Discussion thread prior to my post and you will clearly see many who voiced their opinions in the CD Forum felt they were completely ignored and their views belittled. This entire system of governing the Clan World has disenfranchised and disillusioned many members...some who have left the site and not returned.

This is of course something you choose to allow to continue, I presume because, as you said, they volunteer their time without asking for much in return. If the Clan Department cannot be run fairly based upon a democratic process that is transparent and not hidden behind closed doors....then it will eventually fail, and your site will not be as successful as it could be!

In closing, I will again assure you that I am done trying to make sense to those who choose not to listen to reason. I will not pursue this issue further. If you choose to "punish" me for speaking my mind in a sincere and respectful manner...so be it...but this is PaulatPeace speaking his mind for himself. Do not punish my clan or fellow clanmates for me speaking my mind!

Respecfully,

PaulatPeace

[IcePack]

This matter has been resolved via the Admin.

Please continue discussions related to CL8 matters only.

Thanks,
IcePack & The Clan Team

[rockfist]

Will there be a prediction contest related to CL8?

[IcePack]

Will there be a prediction contest related to CL8?

I'd like to run one, if you are interested in assisting with something like this let me know.
If not, the answer is "I hope so" and will do it if I'm able to muster the time.

IcePack

[IcePack]

Mod Delete - as I said, keep posts here related to CL8 only.
Thanks,
IcePack

[PaulatPeace]

It was...and you know it!


I will post it elsewhere since you seem to prefer that!


Paul