Fog of war and liars

[Donelladan]

continuation of the discussion started here : https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... ead#unread

Is it acceptable to lie in a fog game ?

That is hypocritical, Read what you have written! You talk about integrity of fog and yet then go on to say actions that are punishable in law are acceptable. Either you have an understanding of integrity or you do not.

Maybe you should think hard of what a game of Risk is suposed to be. A group of FRIENDS sitting around a table and having an honest and pleasurable game. The fact that on CC the game is in cyberspace does not allow for behaviour displayed by Lonous. Players on Conquerer Club deserve to be treated with respect. When a Player calls another player a lair and then goes on to convince other players to believe the other player to be a lair too, then that behaviour is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

If I started publishing that you are a peadophoile, a lair or even insulting your sexuality I would be at fault and you deserve every opertunity to prove the falsehood. FOG of war is NOT and excuse for insulting a members integrity or demeaning their charactor - If you believe that not to be the case, then obviously your understanding of FOG is completely different to most.

Lying is a personal choice - Accusing others is not. It is a liabious act and as such the LAW allows me to prove my inocence, I do not need nor desire your approval.

Maybe you should read the rules regarding behaviour - they are quite specific - and then re-post. Either ALL the rules should be enforced or none. Anything less is hypocracy!

I did not post a full map, I posted a clip "It showed just the troops in Question" after the turns had been taken, (Should OLD games of FOG be deleted off the system?) furthermore it was NOT used to show up a lair - but a player that chose to call ME a LIAR and also insult the fact I am on medication"

If you are of the opinion that I displayed a whole map OR even gave out tacticle information that would have a detrimental effect on the other player. Then I would I tend to agree that I exceeded fair play. But this is not what I did. I took care not to spoil the game but prove my inocence - Do I have to receive Negative feedback as a Lair, Untrustworthy and furthermore suffer defomation of charactor.

Let's be honest, If this game had been around a table. I would demand either an appology or would be giving the lying twat a smack in the mouth!

For some people integrity means all. Sorry but I fall in that class and I am proud of it!

I appologise for any gramatical or spelling mistakes but I am on 180mg of Morphine every day, The reason for which was fighting for my Country - Servicemen of any nation concider their integrity as everything they have! Lets be tottally honest here - It's the ONLY thing we can actually own. For your information Insults, Racisism, Sexism and threats and profanity and even being rude are against the rules. Once Lonous had broken the rules, he was in no position to complain.

I realise that he is a young member - but he had been given plenty of warnings. He is not complaining that I gave out tacticle information that ruined his game - he is complaining to cause trouble, as he is a PROVEN liar.. Further - he did not have to Name me in this Post - Most wouldn't have done so in the heading.

But By all means - Allow the LIAR to use this post to cause trouble. I notice that he fails to mention that throughout the game, he was telling everyone in chat my troop strengths - Oversight perhaps??? I'll let you decide...

You talk about integrity of fog and yet then go on to say actions that are punishable in law are acceptable. Either you have an understanding of integrity or you do not.

You have no understanding of what Conquer Club is. Lying is 100% ok here. It's part of the game. I can see you are deeply offended but Lonous calling you a liar, but you shouldn't, it was an acceptable use of the game chat to do so from his side. It may happen often again if you choose to play multiplayers foggy games

Let's be honest, If this game had been around a table. I would demand either an appology or would be giving the lying twat a smack in the mouth!

Fog of war doesn't exist around a table.....

For your information Insults, Racisism, Sexism and threats and profanity and even being rude are against the rules. Once Lonous had broken the rules, he was in no position to complain.

Racism and Sexims are against the rules. Threats, insults and being rude are not against the rule. Just for your information, because you will probably see that again.

FOG of war is NOT and excuse for insulting a members integrity or demeaning their charactor - If you believe that not to be the case, then obviously your understanding of FOG is completely different to most.

Here is your big mistake, my understanding of fog is actually the same than most.
There is 2 kind of people playing fog.
1) People that believe you should not reveal troops positions and count in the game chat ever.
2) People that believe you can reveal troops positions and counts in the game chat because no one know if you are lying or not, therefore also accepting people lying about troops position and count, and also accepting to be called liar or calling other people liar.

Be aware that the 1st often complain about the 2nd but the rules of conquer club give reason to the 2nd.

Further - he did not have to Name me in this Post - Most wouldn't have done so in the heading.

Not really relevant to the fog issue I want to discuss here, but yes he had to, in C&A forum you have to say who you are accusing.

[eddie2]

Just to add donelladen the only reason why the 2nd has been allowed is because some do lie. All cases have been closed with the response he could be lieing. Posting a screen shot takes it past all the cleared cases.and thos should be stopped before it sets a president that it can be allowed ruining the game for fog lovers.

[owenshooter]

Just to add donelladen the only reason why the 2nd has been allowed is because some do lie. All cases have been closed with the response he could be lieing. Posting a screen shot takes it past all the cleared cases.and thos should be stopped before it sets a president that it can be allowed ruining the game for fog lovers.

first of all, this is a D- post, errors have been marked in red. secondly, there is no rule against revealing troops in Fog of War games. Period. If you change that rule, you have to get rid of snaps and get rid of CHAT in the game... what you want is to play the game in a vacuum... since that is the case, you should start a FOW BUBBLE group and host private games... good luck with your finals, this mid-term was a mess...-Jésus noir

JOIN EDDIES GROUP!!!

[Donelladan]

secondly, there is no rule against revealing troops in Fog of War games. Period. If you change that rule, you have to get rid of snaps and get rid of CHAT in the game... what you want is to play the game in a vacuum... since that is the case, you should start a FOW BUBBLE group and host private games...

You already used this argument in the C&A topic, but it does not work.

There is no rule saying you can't hack the dice. But if someone was doing it, I guess it would be a problem ?

There is no rule about posting snapshot/screenshot in the chat in a fog of war game, but it's because it never happened before, or at least it was not reported.
Posting a snapshot and saying " he has so many troops on this region" are not the same. There is similarity, but it's not the same thing. Period. Whether it is allowed or forbidden still has to be determined.

[owenshooter]

There is no rule about posting snapshot/screenshot in the chat in a fog of war game, but it's because it never happened before, or at least it was not reported.
Posting a snapshot and saying " he has so many troops on this region" are not the same. There is similarity, but it's not the same thing. Period. Whether it is allowed or forbidden still has to be determined.

if you are allowed to reveal position without penalty, obviously you can post screen snaps or whatever as long as they are in chat for everyone... they would have to change the game engine for fog and only fog if they set the precedent that you may not reveal positions in fog...-Jésus noir

[Donelladan]

There is no rule about posting snapshot/screenshot in the chat in a fog of war game, but it's because it never happened before, or at least it was not reported.
Posting a snapshot and saying " he has so many troops on this region" are not the same. There is similarity, but it's not the same thing. Period. Whether it is allowed or forbidden still has to be determined.

if you are allowed to reveal position without penalty, obviously you can post screen snaps or whatever as long as they are in chat for everyone... they would have to change the game engine for fog and only fog if they set the precedent that you may not reveal positions in fog...-Jésus noir

It is not at all obvious to me that being allowed to reveal position in the chat should allow you to post snaps and screen, and this is not obvious to me precisely because of what I say in the first post here.
You can be lying, and you can call your opponent a liar. I've seen people doing it, and I've done it too. It works very well. No one knows who's telling the truth.

Allright, you can easily photoshop a screenshot ( personally I couldn't but I am ready to believe it's easy), but you can't easily modify a snap, therefore making it way more difficult to cast doubts on it if someone is using snapshot. For me this is reason enough to decide to draw a line.

[waauw]

Allright, you can easily photoshop a screenshot ( personally I couldn't but I am ready to believe it's easy), but you can't easily modify a snap, therefore making it way more difficult to cast doubts on it if someone is using snapshot. For me this is reason enough to decide to draw a line.

Honestly, I think 99% of CC-ers don't even know you can post a snap in public(not team) chat. I've played quite a number of games, yet your example of a game where you used it, is the only example I've ever seen. Therefor I think this is a non-issue. Even posting a screenshot in chat is quite rare, but as mentioned before this is falsifiable.

secondly, there is no rule against revealing troops in Fog of War games. Period. If you change that rule, you have to get rid of snaps and get rid of CHAT in the game... what you want is to play the game in a vacuum... since that is the case, you should start a FOW BUBBLE group and host private games...

You already used this argument in the C&A topic, but it does not work.

There is no rule saying you can't hack the dice. But if someone was doing it, I guess it would be a problem ?

There is no rule about posting snapshot/screenshot in the chat in a fog of war game, but it's because it never happened before, or at least it was not reported.
Posting a snapshot and saying " he has so many troops on this region" are not the same. There is similarity, but it's not the same thing. Period. Whether it is allowed or forbidden still has to be determined.

I undertand your point, but hacking dice is actually a bad example. Hacking the dice doesn't have to be mentioned in the rules because it is illegal.

[Donelladan]

Honestly, I think 99% of CC-ers don't even know you can post a snap in public(not team) chat. I've played quite a number of games, yet your example of a game where you used it, is the only example I've ever seen. Therefor I think this is a non-issue. Even posting a screenshot in chat is quite rare, but as mentioned before this is falsifiable.

Well I've seen it before by other people than me in a fog of war game, more than once.
But rare or not it isn't important. There is stuff that have been judged to be forbidden by C&A even if they only happened once.
And if the mods declare it's OK to post snap and screen in game chat, maybe we will see it happening more often now that it's officially allowed. ( which I hope won't happen).

[iAmCaffeine]

One time in a clan war I was checking through our games and, out of habit, took a snapshot of a game I wasn't even in. It was posted into the public chat for everyone to see. I forever condemn myself for letting both teams see such a collection of question marks, to aid their strategies.

Really though, I think this should be against the rules. Public snapshot in the chat is fact and undeniable. If the image was saved and edited then you could argue either way.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Don, dont use Delf as an example here, keep it hypothetical. Delf is entirely justified in responding to the bigotry, which trumps any of his wrongdoing. (Odd that nobody appears to have noticed this very important point in the C&A.

If I started publishing that you are a peadophoile, a lair or even insulting your sexuality I would be at fault and you deserve every opertunity to prove the falsehood. FOG of war is NOT and excuse for insulting a members integrity or demeaning their charactor - If you believe that not to be the case, then obviously your understanding of FOG is completely different to most.

I think a lot of fog player would rather there was no chat box, sorry but there is, do with it as you see fit. Dont want snapshots, then block url's from the chatbox, dont create a rule that no-one will read or pay attention to. Mechanical fixes are always the best fixes.

[owenshooter]

There is no rule about posting snapshot/screenshot in the chat in a fog of war game, but it's because it never happened before, or at least it was not reported.
Posting a snapshot and saying " he has so many troops on this region" are not the same. There is similarity, but it's not the same thing. Period. Whether it is allowed or forbidden still has to be determined.

you are arguing semantics... revealing the number of troops or position by posted words or in extension, by a snap or image, are the same thing. just because someone hasn't written, "you may post snaps. you may use words. you may post jpegs, etc," does not mean you can't reveal people in fog by that manner. guess what, there probably isn't a law that says you can't kill someone with a mouse pad, but if i killed someone, it would still be murder. the end result is the end result. revealing in fog either by words or pics is the same thing. killing someone either with a knive, guy or mouse pad is the same result. the means do not matter, just the end result. revealing through the use of words or pics are the same thing, and thus are both legal.

unless they massively rewrite the rules for fog and fog alone, unless they massively alter the gaming machine/mechanism for fog and fog only, there is no way that you can consider the revelation or revealing of others troops in either manner a violation of the rules.

the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

p.s.-your dice hack example was absurd, just absurd. that would be CHEATING. revealing positions in fog is not against any written rule.

where are they?!!

[Delf]

At Donelladan

I so sorry that you think lying being rude abusive to other people is acceptable. Also, I am sorry that others have to listen to your one sided bigoted and hypocritical circular arguments.

Lonous revealed troop counts throughout the game (I noticed you glossed over that aspect) and then called me a lair and furthermore convinced others that I was a lair. I used proof to prove who was the lair. Now the methodology here is your argument? A snap can be altered - who said it hadn't, (Well I for one knew it wasn't - but you cannot know that fact) So your argument is basically "It's okay to SAY in chat but not show in chat" As you like to show off your self-righteous opinions think hard.

Both the written text and the visual clips are a series of 1's and 0's - the only way we communicate on the web is digitally. So really your argument has no more foundation than a lighthouse in the Yorkshire dales - "spots of brilliance but bloody useless."

There was a survey done in the East Riding of Yorkshire, It's findings may be relevant. It discovered that most people that caused a commotion over trivial things had deep routed sexual problems. Is there a connection here?

Lying in chat to cause others to believe another member is a lair and deliberately causing harm to that member’s reputation is despicable behaviour. We are members of a club and as such should act responsibly towards others.

The fact that after the thread was closed you felt it necessary to continue it, speaks volumes about your personality.

Mate get a life. Enjoy the games and try very hard to get your head out of your own arsehole. You will find life so much more interesting.

A Message from Delf on “How to make friends and influence people!”

[TheForgivenOne]

secondly, there is no rule against revealing troops in Fog of War games. Period. If you change that rule, you have to get rid of snaps and get rid of CHAT in the game... what you want is to play the game in a vacuum... since that is the case, you should start a FOW BUBBLE group and host private games...

You already used this argument in the C&A topic, but it does not work.

There is no rule saying you can't hack the dice. But if someone was doing it, I guess it would be a problem ?

There is no rule about posting snapshot/screenshot in the chat in a fog of war game, but it's because it never happened before, or at least it was not reported.
Posting a snapshot and saying " he has so many troops on this region" are not the same. There is similarity, but it's not the same thing. Period. Whether it is allowed or forbidden still has to be determined.

I'm sorry, but trying to compare this, to hacking the dice, is completely flawed. You are breaking a game mechanic within the site if you're trying to hack the dice. It's the same thing as abusing loopholes or bugs.

If people are going to try and use Snapchat in a way that it wasn't meant to, well, perhaps we should remove Snapchat, and voila, people can't post images that can't be photoshop'd.

The only time a "Newish" rule that was brought in, in recent memory for me, was the New Recruit ban. The reason it was brought in? Because Farming NR's was pretty bad, and Admin's wanted a deterrent or a way to stop it. Also, by "newish" rule, I meant one that didn't fall into a category already listed.

Now let me ask you this, say the Hunters make a rule to stop this. What does it fall under? Minor or Major? I don't see it as minor as they fall under "annoying". Is this annoying? No. Is it a Major? Is it "intentionally hurtful to a user, group of users, or the community in general"? Nope. So what sort of punishment should this fall under? Make it's own list? Like SD?

I remember someone seeing post they should be banned from Fog games (Perhaps I'm thinking of something else). Is it really worth it? To make the Admin's go through the process of coding into the site that a user isn't allowed to play Fog games? Because one user has done it in the 10(!) years that this website has been up (At least reported)? In my opinion, that's a complete waste of their time.

[Delf]

Horror upon Horror - what was posted in chat "AFTER - the troops had been used)

2016-02-05 12:09:17 - Delf: https://gyazo.com/27790007574c6a4027d76bb45e809a7d

Have a good look at the totality of the clip -

1. it was old information the troops had moved
2. It was not a "Snap" but the smallest of clips to prove I was not a lair.

If I used it to help me in my game - I think that would have been wrong - But afterwards! Really - some people need to seriously get a life and know when they are havng their strings puled - Please take the time to click the link - which will show how I was so Baaaaddddd. - Sorry for the sheep inuendo.

DAMN DAMN, I've done it again. I've shown a clip of an active fog of war game - Regardless that the clip is several rounds old. Am I Bad?

[Donelladan]

Don, dont use Delf as an example here, keep it hypothetical. Delf is entirely justified in responding to the bigotry, which trumps any of his wrongdoing. (Odd that nobody appears to have noticed this very important point in the C&A.

If I started publishing that you are a peadophoile, a lair or even insulting your sexuality I would be at fault and you deserve every opertunity to prove the falsehood. FOG of war is NOT and excuse for insulting a members integrity or demeaning their charactor - If you believe that not to be the case, then obviously your understanding of FOG is completely different to most.

If posting screenshot was forbidden, bigotry would not allow Delf to post screenshot. It's not because someone wronged you that you are allowed to break the rule.
Also, go read the chat, no one even insulted Delf, only saying once that he was saying bullshit lie. But Delf called them "idiots". Also Delf is saying Lonous was the first to give troops position, but it isn't true, Delf did it, and he also said he had snap backing his declaration way before Lonous say anything.
So yes I can use Delf as an example.

Delf is claiming they insult his integrity because they said he was lying, that's it. No bigotry.

Dont want snapshots, then block url's from the chatbox, dont create a rule that no-one will read or pay attention to. Mechanical fixes are always the best fixes.

Might be a good idea,

you are arguing semantics... revealing the number of troops or position by posted words or in extension, by a snap or image, are the same thing. just because someone hasn't written, "you may post snaps. you may use words. you may post jpegs, etc," does not mean you can't reveal people in fog by that manner.

I've said it already in the other thread, gonna repeat myself.
When you "reveal" troops and position using word, no one know if you are telling the truth or not, and calling you a liar is sufficient to cast doubt on your affirmation. Go read the chat in the game from the CandA you'll have a perfect example from that with three different persons revealing troops number and position and being called liars. "Revealing" troops and position in the fog has been so far accepted because it's impossible to check the facts behind those affirmation, hence possibility to lie and adding an extra strategical tool to the game. Using snapshot is totally different because it's as close as possible as facts.
But, you're not a fog players, I know you do not like this setting, maybe cyou can't understand the extend of what we are speaking right now ?
Please go ahead and read the chat here Game 16135720.
I find it's a really good example why revealing troops position and count through the game chat is accepted, you'll maybe understand why Delf decided to post screenshot because using only word there is no way the information he was given would be taken for reality.

I'm sorry, but trying to compare this, to hacking the dice, is completely flawed. You are breaking a game mechanic within the site if you're trying to hack the dice. It's the same thing as abusing loopholes or bugs.

Well, ok maybe it wasn't the best example. My point was, it's not because smthg isn't forbidden at the moment that it means it should not be forbidden. I guess that you can all accept ?

[ConfederateSS]

-------1st) Snapshots and bluffing are not the same thing. Taking a snapshot is a cowardly act. The word liar is strong. When it is bluffing,and should be called what it is. Bluffing is what people are trying to do. They are far from each other. Example...someone is bluffing in poker. Taking a snapshot in a fog game. Is like reaching over grabbing the person's cards and throwing them face up on the table.
-------2nd) Like I said in C and A...The snapshot setting should be removed from settings. They should be forbidden in FOG...PERIOD....ONE MORE TIME...BLUFFING...AND TAKING A SNAPSHOT OF THE BATTLEFIELD ARE NOT THE SAME THING... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[Delf]

Quick Reply

2 points - Donelladan - Is correct in saying I called the other players idiots believing Lonous - For that, I have to admit I was wrong. But in my defence I was angry that others were believing the lies. The second point, is he is incorrect to say I gave out troop strenghts first. Thoughout the game Lonous was giving out troops strengths of mine (made up and inaccurate - insighting the others to attack) Now I realise one could argue that its a part of the game. Then prey tell, where does this rule appear. We are not here to play brag or Poker, We are here to play a strategy game. All I asked for throughout was honesty and fair play.

So what is the point of this thread? Is it to discuss wether giving "Accuarate information out is against the rules" but giving out inaccurate troop strenghts is permitted? Is it to discuss wether a "Clip" or the Written Text is the culprable offence? Or is it because one member would accept that his arguements were dissagreed with and wanted to continue his circular argument until we all bow down and admit he is right?

I ask as it is gatting a bit confusing.

Is is against the ruules - The answer is No. Sorry Donelladan - That's the rules.
Is there justification to defend one's integrity - Yes - That's actaully a point of Law


Now by all means please raise yet another thread once this one too is closed - maybe you will be able to convince people Black is White and Governments are honest, the world is flat. But PLEASE - What is the point of flogging a dead horse. A complaint was made - it was considered and ended. Please stop trying to "Quote" your way into sainthood. This thread is dead. It has been decided,

Please raise a new thread but do me the curtesy of leaving my IGM out of it - It is no longer about me - It appears to be about your reluctance to accept other members and CC's rules.

Sorry about typo's spelling and such but I am on a hell of a lot of pain medication and concentration is difficult when fighting pain



PS - Sorry for being insulting to you earlier - That was uncalled for and you deserve an appology for that, so I appologise. Believe me when I say the medication I am on does not lend itself to normal rational thought. - I should have insisted on Wacky Baccy - lol Saying that - It would do you well to remember that both sides of an agrument should be considered and not to take parts of a message as that leaves out context. "A problem with Quotes - they allow for the context to be ignored for the post'ers benefit - a message should be considered in it's entirety not as people would like to interpret it"

[Donelladan]

Well, there is 2 things in this topic, since you are asking.
1st there is the discussion wether or not it is allowed to post snapshot or screenshot in the game chat.
2nd I wanted to let you know that your last post was containing a lot of missunderstanding about CC. Nothing personal against you, be sure of that, but your defense ( the post I quoted in my first post here) was inadapted to what are the rules on CC. Apparently you didn't read, or didn't understand ( might be my fault english isn't my mothertongue and I know I am not always very clear), because it seems you are repeating the same mistake here.

You speak about my reluctance to accept CC rules, you are being mistaken. You said the thread is dead it has been decided, and you are mistaken, again. Maybe you did not read the mod's post in the previous thread, so I'll quote it for you, I know you like that

After going through similar reports I do not see a similar case to this one. We will discuss this as a group. Please be patient

The thread is not dead, they are discussing it. The mod closed the previous topic only in order to keep things quiet in the C and A forum because it is not the place for debate.
What they are discussing ( the mods but us as well here) is wether posting screenshot/snaphot in the foggy games are allowed. Not if giving accurate information is against the rule, everyone know it is not against the rule already. Everyone know written text giving information about troops strength and position in the game chat is allowed. The screenshot, clip as you call them, are the new thing here.

Again it is not a personal thing against you, you are not the first to make this mistake, I say "everyone know" 2 lines above, I meant most CC experiened CC users, many people are not up to date with what is allowed or not concerning game chat in the fog.
You said smthg, and you said it before, that you had to defend your integrity. You said it's a point of law. Two things about that because that is where I think you are repeating the same mistake. First the american law, if it is the one you are referring when you say " it's a point of law" is completely irrelevant here. And calling you a liar isn't attacking your integrity, it is merely a chat tactic, it is totally normal, and it will very probably happen again. You must not take it that seriously, because it will probably happen again.

The second point, is he is incorrect to say I gave out troop strenghts first. Thoughout the game Lonous was giving out troops strengths of mine (made up and inaccurate - insighting the others to attack) Now I realise one could argue that its a part of the game. Then prey tell, where does this rule appear. We are not here to play brag or Poker, We are here to play a strategy game. All I asked for throughout was honesty and fair play.

Go read the chat again, maybe you are mistaking Lonous ( purple) for SuPadre ( orange) because you did gave troops positions and strength before Lonous did.
Also, honesty is not a requirement here on CC.
I cannot tell you where the rule appear, but ask around you, and you'll see it is.

[Dukasaur]

Since this debate is continuing, I will post what I said in the C&A thread.
Subject: Delf violating fog of war [tg]

...

I think that posting a shot of what you yourself can see is no different than describing what you see in words. It makes absolutely no difference whether I say "I have 50 troops on New York" or show you a picture of my 50 troops on New York. Similarly, makes no difference at all whether I say "TeeGee has 73 troops on Lagos" or show you a picture of TeeGee's 73 troops on Lagos. The information conveyed is the same, and the possibility of it being falsified is the same.

Even Donelladan's point about site snaps being unfalsifiable is probably wrong. I'm sure they can be edited and faked. I would have no idea how, but I'm sure there's tons of techies on the site who could figure it out.

Communication is communication. If it's okay to testify about what I see, it's okay to bring forth supporting evidence to prove I saw it.

In addition to all of the above, I think we need to validate what Delf is saying. If someone is called a liar, he has a right to bring proof that he is not. Being called a liar is to many people the worst insult imaginable. Duels to the death have many times resulted from it.

Finally, let's keep in mind that this is still a fog game. Delf can still only tell people what he sees. (Including, obviously, bringing forth pictures of what he sees.) There is still uncertainty about the parts of the map he does not see. The doubts and uncertainties inherent in fog of war are not dispelled by someone offering up the limited amount of information at his disposal.

[ConfederateSS]

-------1st) Snapshots and bluffing are not the same thing. Taking a snapshot is a cowardly act. The word liar is strong. When it is bluffing,and should be called what it is. Bluffing is what people are trying to do. They are far from each other. Example...someone is bluffing in poker. Taking a snapshot in a fog game. Is like reaching over grabbing the person's cards and throwing them face up on the table.
-------2nd) Like I said in C and A...The snapshot setting should be removed from settings. They should be forbidden in FOG...PERIOD....ONE MORE TIME...BLUFFING...AND TAKING A SNAPSHOT OF THE BATTLEFIELD ARE NOT THE SAME THING... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

------I wish people would quit using the word LIAR...This is a war gaming venue. People bluff just like real people would in a real war.
------You would not go to a poker game. Someone bluffs and wins. You would not call that person a liar/cheater. When you realize you have been fooled out of the pot.
------BUT TAKING A SNAPSHOT GOES WAY BEYOND THE GAME OF FOG SETTING/THE ART OF BLUFFING...SNAPSHOTS SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM PERSONAL MENU SETTINGS AND NOT ALLOWED ON C.C...ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[nippersean]

Well I think it should be banned.

[Keefie]

Some folks on here need to get a life.

Delf posted an out of date snap to prove he wasn't lying. He was very careful to edit the snap to only show the stack of troops concerned. Troops that had moved elsewhere by the time he posted the 'snap', so the information was as useful as a chocolate fire guard.

Can someone please explain what the effing issue is here, because I can't see one.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Taking a snapshot in a fog game. Is like reaching over grabbing the person's cards and throwing them face up on the table.

Its not, its like telling everyone you have a pair of aces and the showing them your own cards.

[BrutalBob]

Just to add donelladen the only reason why the 2nd has been allowed is because some do lie. All cases have been closed with the response he could be lieing. Posting a screen shot takes it past all the cleared cases.and thos should be stopped before it sets a president that it can be allowed ruining the game for fog lovers.

first of all, this is a D- post, errors have been marked in red. secondly, there is no rule against revealing troops in Fog of War games. Period. If you change that rule, you have to get rid of snaps and get rid of CHAT in the game... what you want is to play the game in a vacuum... since that is the case, you should start a FOW BUBBLE group and host private games... good luck with your finals, this mid-term was a mess...-Jésus noir

JOIN EDDIES GROUP!!!

Mate, can you fix your capitalisation up please

[BrutalBob]

There is no rule about posting snapshot/screenshot in the chat in a fog of war game, but it's because it never happened before, or at least it was not reported.
Posting a snapshot and saying " he has so many troops on this region" are not the same. There is similarity, but it's not the same thing. Period. Whether it is allowed or forbidden still has to be determined.

...
you are arguing semantics... revealing the number of troops or position by posted words or in extension, by a snap or image, are the same thing.
...

No I dont think they are the same thing. Someone using words in chat to say x has so many troops here may or may not be telling the truth. Similarly a screenshot may have been manipulated. Posting a snap in chat will by and large be an accurate revelation of troop numbers because, as has been noted, most people could not decode, manipulate and re-encode the troop counts.

I think, given the likelihood that any reposted snap is accurate, and the ease with which it could be policed, it would be a good idea to make reposting a snap a breach of the rules.