Noted pete h & HVAC R [ka]

[t-o-m]

Accused:

HVAC R
pete h




The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy




Game number(s):
Game 15330350

Other games they've played together (click submit)
(I haven't looked for indications of other secret alliances, but this indication that they're friends who have played together. Also questionable is the fact that HVAC nearly always joins pete a few spots later)




Comments:

This isn't your usual 'secret diplomacy', I don't think. The two accused didn't enter the game with the goal of conspiring together, however this is what they have done (in secret) as the game has unfolded.

I'll summarise what happened:

• In the early-mid stages of the game, all players were scrambling for their bonuses – it was a normal game. Yellow made a comment that I ignored at the time, which was:

• As the players were slowly eliminated, it turned into a build game with pete h, HVAC R and I.
• Pete h had the lower hand, and I had a slightly higher deploy than HVAC R. HVAC R and pete h have an unannounaced peaceful border: they each are holding bonus regions with 1 troop defending them, while they're sharing a border. It is natural in this game to break the other player's region - maybe not every turn, but at least once in 20 rounds. At this late stage, it's understandable that they don't want to break each other as I have the slight upper hand (deploying +14 while HVAC R deploys +11, not exactly a sizeable upper hand). But this has been going on for 20 rounds (now in round 38), and all of this was unannounced.
• What comes next leaves a bigger question mark and hints at larger secret diplomacy. Over the last 5 turns or so, pete has been deploying and attacking my stack on HVAR's border (it isn't in the log as no region was taken, however I can play through the round snapshots to give an indication.) Looking at chat, you can see me ask:

• The next thing that happened is HVAC takes over pete's bonus in Noord-Nederland (red continent) - the continent that has had a peaceful border for 20 rounds. Pete does not retaliate and continues to hit my position. Instead, HVAC proposes:

*This is just now, in round 38. They have been cooperating for 20 rounds already.

• I'm glad he said this, as it gives evidence to what I'm saying.
  
• If the two were not working together, pete would have reacted when HVAC took his bonus and would have tried to maintain his position in the game, as he is an independent player, looking after his own interests. He has not done so, and instead if looking after HVAC's interests. I can now expect pete to suicide into me at a moment that will serve his partner best. *speculation

Here is how the game panned out:



(you can see stills in this album: http://imgur.com/a/CzZ0O)

And this is the current state of the game:





Bottom line: they have been working together, fine, but it was never declared. If HVAC R and pete h want to play on the same team, they should play doubles so they can both win, instead of working together in singles games - or at the very least they should declare their cooperation. I want to play a fair game.

[Donelladan]

I didn't read all your arguments, but you are currently winning. I am actually wondering why you didn't auto gray on Veluwe and Over Betuwe, do it next turn and game is yours except if you have terrible dice.

You have 210 and they have, together, 213, with the attacker dice advantage, plus you breaking gray's bonus, nothing to worry about.

[t-o-m]

I didn't read all your arguments, but you are currently winning. I am actually wondering why you didn't auto gray on Veluwe and Over Betuwe, do it next turn and game is yours except if you have terrible dice.

You have 210 and they have, together, 213, with the attacker dice advantage, plus you breaking gray's bonus, nothing to worry about.

I don't like injustice.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Secret Diplomacy is:

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must only be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand. No other methods of communication may be used to hold diplomatic discussions between opponents including, but not limited to, the forum, the wall, Live Chat, or the inbox

Have you got any evidence that they have actually spoken to each other? Alliances such as these naturally develop in the game from time to time, they are cruical to ensuring a players position in the endgame. Its the same as trading 1 army terts with a player to gain cards cheaply in escalating. Its not cheating, just good play.

[t-o-m]

I didn't read all your arguments, but you are currently winning. I am actually wondering why you didn't auto gray on Veluwe and Over Betuwe, do it next turn and game is yours except if you have terrible dice.

You have 210 and they have, together, 213, with the attacker dice advantage, plus you breaking gray's bonus, nothing to worry about.

It's trench warfare.

Have you got any evidence that they have actually spoken to each other? Alliances such as these naturally develop in the game from time to time, they are cruical to ensuring a players position in the endgame. Its the same as trading 1 army terts with a player to gain cards cheaply in escalating. Its not cheating, just good play.

You are asking for evidence of secret discussion... the answer is no, I have not hacked the servers and downloaded any private messages. The only evidence I have is included in the first post, which you have read. I understand that this dynamic often evolves, I've been playing here for nearly 7 years. But seeing as though they were also accused by another player in the game, at a different stage in the game, I think it's important to flag it at least, and let the moderators make the call. At least let it be looked into - you are asking for evidence of a secret, these things are done on inference.

[riskllama]

i have played many games with peteh and he NEVER says anything, EVER. i highly doubt he is conducting secret diplomacy.

[king achilles]

So this is assuming that pete h is handing the game to HVAC R because his attacks on you is giving an advantage to HVAC R rather than him defending his own against HVAC R.

It doesn't look like to be secret diplomacy if HVAC R is also taking over pete h instead of them going at you until they are the two left in the game.

[king achilles]

This report is noted.

[t-o-m]

This report is noted.

Thanks for looking into it - this seems like the best outcome.