CC lack of clan leaders or what?

[ViperOverLord]

First, let me say that I think, for the most part all clan directors do a very good job.

Lindax, I do believe that you treat people differently. Not sure if its favoritism or a general dislike for me personally. If its the latter I'm not sure what I did. I haven't been around in CD and friends long enough to know all that has transpired so Don't really have any examples. But again, not sure why you target me as I am not the one that brought it up. You mentioned that you have skyped with some members. I don't think that everyone has access to your skype, so that to me would show favoritism. I also believe that all information regarding a decision should be made public and discussed in this thread. There is no reason for you to be discussing this information secretly with other clan leaders.

You also didn't discuss ant reasoning for your decision not to bring it to 41 games. To me it was more like 'I am in charge and that's the way its going to be'. I guess you are in charge and you can do what you want, but some kind of explanation would be nice.

I do notice that IcePack agrees with you unconditionally. I guess its nice to have a leader that has your back on everything.

1. Lindax took a great many pot shots at me personally about the time I was pressing for a system of elected clan leaders so I can relate to your experience.
2. Lindax has ZERO appreciation for what transpired that new clan leaders like him were brought in; the secrecy, the lies, the insider politics, etc. I've witnessed him repeat the same exact mistakes. Perhaps, there's been less complaining b/c people became apathetic to all the nonsense.
3. Sentiment for a clan republic of sorts was very strong. Lindax came in and did his token input sessions and votes but ultimately reverted to 'I'll do what I want and that's the end of it' mentality. I know that's when I finally tapped out. Fool me once....
4. Like I said, I don't very much follow the politics these days; but it's very natural for leaders to take on a tribal mentality. I'm not surprised by your observation of IcePack supporting Lindax "unconditionally." This is why I wanted more democratic standards. We are at the mercy of their judgments whether they be fair or not or something in between. That's not how it should be, imo.
5. And maybe the clan leaders do do "a very good job...for the most part." But for me, it shouldn't come at the sacrifice of disenfranchisement. I'll take mediocre leaders who allow clans to own it at the end of the day over that. But most seem to be happy with things wrapped up in a pretty bow; and that's how it is. And despite my beef, I do give IcePack major props for his continued work on the rankings. And if I were to throw Lindax a bone, he tends to be very organized; and I'm guessing whoever is in whatever events he is running is very satisfied from that standpoint. But again, none of this is grounds for disenfranchisement.
6. Yea, a lot of back channels like before; meanwhile this forum is a ghost town. Not a damn thing's not changed.

[Keefie]

Enough of the personal attacks.

[ViperOverLord]

You can take the so-called personal attacks out of it. The fact remains that a few elites make the decisions in the shadows while this forum has become a ghost town.

[BGtheBrain]

You can take the so-called personal attacks out of it. The fact remains that a few elites make the decisions in the shadows while this forum is a ghost town.

Im sorry, what decisions are these shadow elites making?

[Keefie]

and who are the elites ?

The CD's come from HH, FISO, Fallen and TOFU. Lindax has no clan. So a pretty mixed bunch really.

We all agree on many things and sometimes disagree quite fiercely but in the main make decisions that benefit the clan world.

I'm sure that everyone who posts here could think of something that they would like to see done differently. But the only way to get anything changed is to put forward ideas/suggestions in a constructive way without resorting to character assasinations. Issues with individual members of the CD team should be raised privately with Icepack or bigWham if required.

[IcePack]

You can take the so-called personal attacks out of it. The fact remains that a few elites make the decisions in the shadows while this forum has become a ghost town.

This forum is what the clan leaders make of it. Its generally been quiet since its started, its not because the CD's are involved in some site wide conspiracy.
If we wanted to impliment our own ideas, features, and dont care then you wouldn't see a CD post in this thread ever.

[iAmCaffeine]

You can take the so-called personal attacks out of it. The fact remains that a few elites make the decisions in the shadows while this forum has become a ghost town.

This forum is what the clan leaders make of it. Its generally been quiet since its started, its not because the CD's are involved in some site wide conspiracy.
If we wanted to impliment our own ideas, features, and dont care then you wouldn't see a CD post in this thread ever.

VOL is pretty weird. I still believe that the voice of more established clans is given more weight to those of us who perhaps aren't, but as for secret committees plotting in the dark? Maybe not.

[Vid_FISO]

Going back to the initial question - surely the art of leadership requires any leader to nudge/ nurture group members to take on the various duties required of a leader thereby enabling them to be ready to lead themselves? Any leader that does it all without grooming potential co-leaders/ replacements is failing at leading.

I'd say that FISO have a good number of leaders within our ranks (along with several that have wandered away from CC over the past couple of years) that won't have to step up to the role, just continue what they're doing anyway.

[iAmCaffeine]

Going back to the initial question - surely the art of leadership requires any leader to nudge/ nurture group members to take on the various duties required of a leader thereby enabling them to be ready to lead themselves? Any leader that does it all without grooming potential co-leaders/ replacements is failing at leading.

This is a fine example of how to make gross generalisations. A clan leader in your position really has very little room to criticise how other leaders run things.

Assigning tasks and taking up duties all depends on real life commitments, and perhaps other CC dedications as well.

[ViperOverLord]

You can take the so-called personal attacks out of it. The fact remains that a few elites make the decisions in the shadows while this forum is a ghost town.

Im sorry, what decisions are these shadow elites making?

Insider trading, man. It's the reason most clans stopped participating in the last however long it's been now. They know that it's a puppet masters system. There's nothing to "make of it"; because it is what it is.

When the new CDs came in following the great discord that basically unseated two CD's, there was a strong mandate to create a more democratic process. This was of little to no consequence to a czar like Lindax. Sadly, the other CDs acquiesced to him instead of advocating for the aforementioned changes.

[iAmCaffeine]

You can take the so-called personal attacks out of it. The fact remains that a few elites make the decisions in the shadows while this forum is a ghost town.

Im sorry, what decisions are these shadow elites making?

Insider trading, man. It's the reason most clans stopped participating in the last however long it's been now. They know that it's a puppet masters system. There's nothing to "make of it"; because it is what it is.

When the new CDs came in following the great discord that basically unseated two CD's, there was a strong mandate to create a more democratic process. This was of little to no consequence to a czar like Lindax. Sadly, the other CDs acquiesced to him instead of advocating for the aforementioned changes.

Got anything to back these claims up? All seems like smoke on the water at the moment.

[fishydance]

f*ck off the preferential treatment to the bigger clans and/or friends of CDs.

As a clan leader for one of the "bigger clans", I don't feel we receive any preferential treatment. As others have said, give us some examples where you've seen that happening.

[Keefie]

f*ck off the preferential treatment to the bigger clans and/or friends of CDs.

As a clan leader for one of the "bigger clans", I don't feel we receive any preferential treatment.

Thanks Fishy, the envelope is in the usual place.

[iAmCaffeine]

f*ck off the preferential treatment to the bigger clans and/or friends of CDs.

As a clan leader for one of the "bigger clans", I don't feel we receive any preferential treatment.

Thanks Fishy, the envelope is in the usual place.

I'm pretty sure this has already been briefly addressed, but on some subjects it seems the opinion of established/veteran clans is given more weight. In some cases I'm sure it should be that way.

If I was still bothered about this I would've continued the discussion. I have more important things to do like continue to get screwed over by other CC departments, but that's irrelevant.

I don't believe any topic from this thread will head in a positive direction.

[Keefie]

f*ck off the preferential treatment to the bigger clans and/or friends of CDs.

As a clan leader for one of the "bigger clans", I don't feel we receive any preferential treatment.

Thanks Fishy, the envelope is in the usual place.

I'm pretty sure this has already been briefly addressed, but on some subjects it seems the opinion of established/veteran clans is given more weight. In some cases I'm sure it should be that way.

If I was still bothered about this I would've continued the discussion. I have more important things to do like continue to get screwed over by other CC departments, but that's irrelevant.

I don't believe any topic from this thread will head in a positive direction.

As long as you're being screwed all's right with the world

[iAmCaffeine]

Re-phrasing..

Keefie, can you f*ck off with the attempt at humour? Usually, yeah fine, but this thread has had enough drama, bollocks and venting not to warrant a CD to take the piss.

I wonder why myself and others don't want to waste our time with threads like this anymore.

[BGtheBrain]

****

[iAmCaffeine]

Bravo.

How to try and get something worthwhile from a rather heated thread, lesson #1 from a respected CD: take the piss out of someone who actively does things. f*ck off mate.

dude, you and keefie banter frequently.

If you cant take it, then f*ck off.

Dont take your anger out on him bc your mad at C&A and eddie

I'm mad for the reasons in the above post. Eddie is worthless and not related to this. Thanks for your valuable input.

Indeed we do, but perhaps right now isn't appropriate considering the importance of the discussion; which is, essentially, the future of clans on CC. Tribes are bullshit for a start. I'm not going to continue for aforementioned reasons.

I'm quite clearly not the only clan leader unhappy with how things are dealt with here. TNC are basically an exception to the rule because you guys just float along without really caring what happens, so feel free to continue posting here without anything of worth.

[BGtheBrain]

****

[iAmCaffeine]

lol thanks caff.

Not sure what that's in response to, but I'm obviously not being serious towards Keefie.

Am I annoyed at the situation and ignorance towards it? Yes.

Would I prefer that Keefie hadn't fuelled the fire, so to speak? Yes.

Does it really bother me? No.

So apologies for the outburst, but like I said earlier, this thread will not lead to anything positive.

[ViperOverLord]

I stepped away for a bit b/c let's face it, you don't fight City Hall. I'll say a couple things:

1. This current administration defied the mandate for democratic principles, and the drop-off in participation reflects that reality. I doubt they care about that though. So, whatever.
2. Within the autocratic framework that they've granted unto themselves, CDs are doing an okay job (possibly as good as anyone else willing to do the job would have).

People can try to talk their way out of point one; but it's a glaring reality to anyone. Of course the usual suspects of entitled deniers will come by; I don't care about them any more.

But, point two may be the more relevant point. If nothing is going to change, then perhaps we should at least just be happy about the thankless work that the CDs are doing.