The Decline of 8 Player Freestyle Speed Games

[KraphtOne]

...And the Double-turn was NOT farming

Farming is when i want shitty players to join my games so i can get easy points...

These guys WANTED you and your awesome score and your great strategy to join their games...

you know why? because it didn't matter, they were better and it was going to be a fair fight and the better player was going to win damn near everytime...

But people that didn't understand freestyle decided that it should be dismantled so that the game could produce a more random winner...

It would be like making the Hive map (for example) illegal to play on because there are 2 or 3 players that beat everybody they play on it...

[owenshooter]

but it has been my contention for a while now that because people have more options to create games with, it keeps them from joining other types of games... so game types become clickish, where only a few people end up playing each type... until those people run out of opponents, and then they don't want to play anymore because they can't find opponents that will play their game type... (and with speed we want someone to play our game and play it NOW)

not a secret, pretty much common knowledge around here for those of us that have been here for a bit... in my game settings, i can now play the same teams i have battled since i first joined and know it is going to end up on the drop and/or who gets a lucky turn, AND NOBODY ELSE!!! i think that number has dwindled down to less than 10 teams and only 3-4 of us make regular games... if we do get a game against someone, we are generally astonished to see new names on the other side of the board... sigh... i remember waking up and taking 10-20 turns with my coffee and getting yelled at by the girlfriend for being on the site... i never got the "benjis_widow" treatment, but i did spend more than enough time on the site a few times a day... if it weren't for andy, i don't think i would have ever taken a breakk *cough* *cough*... anyway, 8 player freestyle seems to have been at the forefront of what i'm now experiencing and have been experiencing... i just never realized it, because i never played the settings... seems like it should have been a much hotter/larger topic than i remember it ever being in the forums... sad... the black jesus has shed a solitary healing tear...-el Jesus negro

p.s.-this made my morning:

Lol.

[Mr Changsha]

Back in the day (heh heh) the suspicion was that the freestyle double turn allowed the most grevious kinds of farming (on speed dubs, 1 vs 1 etc) and was abolished for that reason.

Interestingly, back then a player like demonfork was able to post +6000 scores (as was herpes, rabbiton) from freestyle farming and the sequential community (led by players like blitzaholic..who was of course just as bent) were furious, as it meant that sequential players could never top the scoreboard.

As a consequence, we see now that the top of the scoreboard is exclusively dominated by sequential players.

On the other hand, the rule change did also happen to destroy the 8 man speed freestyle game, which was indeed a great shame as it was superb to watch, even for those of us who didn't play.

So in conclusion, isn't it all rather amusing that the OP who is complaining about this rule change destroying 8 man speed freestyle just happens to be one of the key players who farmed in such a way to cause the rule change in the first place!

Try again Gary. I got to number 1 playing 1v1 feudal war, 2.1, & mogul speeders that I started, that were open to anyone that wanted to play. These games had nothing to do with "double turns".

Think that it was farming all you want if you want to remain completely clueless. Getting to #1 was one was one of the hardest endeavors that I ever undertook. I spent hours practicing and honing my skill. You have no clue what it takes to be good at speed freestyle, the ability is beyond you, so you sir can f*ck off.

I'm glad that your so amused by your own bullshit.

No need to be so sensitive.

I wrote that the 'suspicion' of the double turn caused massive farming, not that I KNOW it did. I think we all know that those huge 90%+ win rates (and 6000+ scores) did put pressure on the scoreboard and integrity of the site. CC screwed freestyle, but I think this was done to enable players who weren't FARMING IN A RIDICULOUS MANNER to compete for the top spot.

Further, I don't for one second believe that the ruination of freestyle greatly damaged the site. THAT was done by expanding the settings and maps and kraphtone expressed it well. My thread 'Why CC is REALLY declining' considers this issue in great detail.

So +6000 scores and 90%+ win rates were farming and what you or herpes did at the time was seen that way. Did I care? No, in fact I often defended the farmers. But I don't really think it can be doubted Demonfork, that your own exploitation of your settings was a big factor in the destruction of your own game.

This is a lesson for us all.

But don't be so sensitive!

[Mr Changsha]

I have had this game Game 14682915 waiting for about 5 days now. Its a good map (actually I think an excellent one) the settings are fair and the team's rank really quite high. You would think there would be someone out there willing to play.

Often I am the guy joining casual games, it is interesting to put one up for a change.

The site has declined and it is terribly sad. Generally, team players are so immersed in their clan wars (of course settings and maps were expanded to help the clan game) that the casual part of the site (and the reason we all played originally) has just died.

Yet someone pointed out that only around 900 players play in a clan, and in my experience a great minority of those will be barely active anyway so lets say there are 600 active clan players. The fundamental decisions on this site were taken to improve the game for 600 of the hardcore customers and yet the powers that be wonder the site declines year on year when the vast majority of the members have had the gaming experience worsened by the expansion of settings.

It is not like I haven't been saying this for a while and I am glad to see that this analysis is becoming increasingly accepted by others. Is it too late to reverse the trend? To instead focus on the casual game that most players actually want to play?

You know I write this as a fan of the clan scene. I help to lead a clan, I'm excited as hell about the possibility of MM getting into the premier league this year. But I know I am a hardcore CC obsessive and I know my wants and needs in no way reflect the general community.

So yes, the clan game is a brilliant one. I hugely enjoy being a part of it. But doesn't one do so in the knowledge that we have maybe 3, 4 or 5 years tops before the rest of the casual players have all buggered off and then where do we play?

[BigBallinStalin]

Back in the day (heh heh) the suspicion was that the freestyle double turn allowed the most grevious kinds of farming (on speed dubs, 1 vs 1 etc) and was abolished for that reason.

Interestingly, back then a player like demonfork was able to post +6000 scores (as was herpes, rabbiton) from freestyle farming and the sequential community (led by players like blitzaholic..who was of course just as bent) were furious, as it meant that sequential players could never top the scoreboard.

As a consequence, we see now that the top of the scoreboard is exclusively dominated by sequential players.

On the other hand, the rule change did also happen to destroy the 8 man speed freestyle game, which was indeed a great shame as it was superb to watch, even for those of us who didn't play.

So in conclusion, isn't it all rather amusing that the OP who is complaining about this rule change destroying 8 man speed freestyle just happens to be one of the key players who farmed in such a way to cause the rule change in the first place!

Apparently, freestylers aren't as good as sequentialists.

[iAmCaffeine]

Personally, I don't like joining against teams were high ranks hide behind low ones.

[nietzsche]

....and greatly increases the impact of your connection speed & ping

yes, but they were fun nonetheless.

I played a few, and though i was not as fast, i would try to win by making unpredictable moves or being 3 steps ahead.

but if there was a public for those games, why ruin it? if people didn't like them just don't play them.

During those days the movement in speed games made it possible for other speed games to be played, just like, some people go to a crowded place because they think it must be good, or, once you increase the visits to your business, people buy shit other than regular stuff, just because they're there.

An explanation is necessary, did they downgrade in hosting service or was it a change in code that brought about the latency issues. Because, it's a strategy that failed. Why not try to go back to the things were when things worked? Has any other solution worked? I mean, do we still have mods that say, with dubious stats, that the decline has halted and we're now growing?


If there were still these types of games being played, I would've joined a few lately. Last night I wanted to play a speed game, checking over and over, not a game showed up, then i started mine, 1vs1 speed, no one joined for like 15 minutes, i dropped, and just as i was about to go a game that i wanted to join was there, joined, and when the game was ending, the dude aks me wtf happened to speed games, that he's a returning user and now nobody plays them. I bet he will quit again.

[demonfork]

You hit the nail on the head...

....and greatly increases the impact of your connection speed & ping

yes, but they were fun nonetheless.

I played a few, and though i was not as fast, i would try to win by making unpredictable moves or being 3 steps ahead.

but if there was a public for those games, why ruin it? if people didn't like them just don't play them.

During those days the movement in speed games make it possible for other speed games to be played, just like, some people go to a crowded place because they think it must be good, or, once you increase the visits to your business, people buy shit other than regular stuff, just because they're there.

An explanation is necessary, did they downgrade in hosting service or was it a change in code that brought about the latency issues. Because, it's a strategy that failed. Why not try to go back to the things were when things worked? Has any other solution worked? I mean, do we still have mods that say, with dubious stats, that the decline has halted and we're not growing?


If there were still these types of games being played, I would've joined a few lately. Last night I wanted to play a speed game, checking over and over, not a game showed up, then i started mine, 1vs1 speed, no one joined for like 15 minutes, i dropped, and just as i was about to go a game that i wanted to join was there, joined, and when the game was ending, the dude aks me wtf happened to speed games, that he's a returning user and now nobody plays them. I bet he will quit again.

I didn't always have the best connection speed and I didn't always win but I had a lot of fun every single time that I played a game.

[Donelladan]

demonfork.
I didn't play speed game at the time double turn existed, and I have no idea what this double turn is.

Two questions, first, it is just a confirmation, is it because this "double turn" has been removed that speed freestyle died ?

Second, I am assuming before, in a freestyle game, you did not have to wait 12hours in sequential, or half time in speed before you could play your next turn, is it what was called double turns ?

[demonfork]

demonfork.
I didn't play speed game at the time double turn existed, and I have no idea what this double turn is.

Two questions, first, it is just a confirmation, is it because this "double turn" has been removed that speed freestyle died ?

Second, I am assuming before, in a freestyle game, you did not have to wait 12hours in sequential, or half time in speed before you could play your next turn, is it what was called double turns ?

JTFC!!

I feel like broken fucking record!

There is an entire fucking thread dedicated to the changes that the schmendricks that run this site, made to freestyle. If you are really interested in these changes I would suggest that you read that thread rather than have me retype all if the shit that is already documented.

Is it really that fucking hard to do an easy search and find this information for yourself or are you just too fucking pathetic and lazy that you would rather have me do it for you?

[loutil]

demonfork.
I didn't play speed game at the time double turn existed, and I have no idea what this double turn is.

Two questions, first, it is just a confirmation, is it because this "double turn" has been removed that speed freestyle died ?

Second, I am assuming before, in a freestyle game, you did not have to wait 12hours in sequential, or half time in speed before you could play your next turn, is it what was called double turns ?

JTFC!!

I feel like broken fucking record!

There is an entire fucking thread dedicated to the changes that the schmendricks that run this site, made to freestyle. If you are really interested in these changes I would suggest that you read that thread rather than have me retype all if the shit that is already documented.

Is it really that fucking hard to do an easy search and find this information for yourself or are you just too fucking pathetic and lazy that you would rather have me do it for you?

I am guessing that you have never read the book: how to win friends and influence people.

[Coler]

It's not even just Freestyle.

Back in the day...there was plenty of action in seq exc on classic as well.

And the freestyle guys, they played 000's of other games with all the settings. Driving them away/failing to retain them (its the same thing) was awful.

[Donelladan]

Well, I was assuming you could reply me with 3 or 2 letters word. No or yes. Would have take you less time to write down fucking 4 times as you did actually.

But sure, tell me I am pathetic and lazy. Actually yes I have no interest in looking in many threads readings tons of post about people arguing about smthg.

[DAT_WAT_SHE_SAID]

8 player freestyle games were a lot of fun. I used to play hundreds. I came back to the site recently and was hoping to play some again, but things have changed unfortunately