F400 Clan Ranking - Needs Repair

by **betiko** on Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:37 am

Yeah when i joined they even were 24th.. Of course it takes much more effort to climb rather that to maintain; nevertheless the ranking only takes the last 2 years. If you talk about the ranking from a year ago, past bad results from lhdd have been erased while past good results from tsm have been erased. So climbing goes much faster than you are commenting.
Bottom line; i am comparing what is comparable. The latest f41 and the latest f400. On the one not taking leagues into acount we are ahead, on the one taking leagues into acount we are very far behind them. So maybe it s all because of the cl5 (didn t really follow what lhdd did for that conpetition)...

Also.. This whole discussion started regarding tsm being number 1 of the last 12 month. That is absolutely impossible given their results. And it doesn t make any sense concerning the previous f400 rankings. You most certainly did a mistake somewhere.

fallen was 11th with 1154 points last year while lhdd was 22 with 1041 points. in your last update you guys have 1242 and we have 1252... yet you ranked yourselves 5th in the last 12 month and us 6th. this just proves that the 1 year ranking is completely messed up. if you take the last update everything makes sense, you somehow must ve made some mistakes on the april update.

by **IcePack** on Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:52 am

I'm happy to look at it again. But I'm very confident no mistakes have been made.

But I'm pretty sure it's more an issue of you not understanding how it's working than a mistake / problem.

by **betiko** on Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:56 am

IcePack wrote:I'm happy to look at it again. But I'm very confident no mistakes have been made.

But I'm pretty sure it's more an issue of you not understanding how it's working than a mistake / problem.

just explain me how fallen can be ahead of lhdd in the 1 year ranking and behind in the 2 year ranking when a year ago you guys were much better ranked than us. simple: you made a mistake somewhere and it happens. Pretty sure you made a mistake with tsm #1 too.

by **IcePack** on Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:53 pm

betiko wrote:
IcePack wrote:I'm happy to look at it again. But I'm very confident no mistakes have been made.

But I'm pretty sure it's more an issue of you not understanding how it's working than a mistake / problem.

just explain me how fallen can be ahead of lhdd in the 1 year ranking and behind in the 2 year ranking when a year ago you guys were much better ranked than us. simple: you made a mistake somewhere and it happens. Pretty sure you made a mistake with tsm #1 too.

It's pretty difficult to make a mistake the way this works unless there's an incorrect war result entered. I check and recheck each entry 2-3 times in the process I've established to reduce errors except in typo while creating the image themselves.

Just because you don't understand something does not mean there is a mistake.

As I said already, I'll check my end. But knowing my process etc I am reasonably confident in saying there is not an error. It's possible - but not likely.

by **betiko** on Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:59 pm

Well you ve already did small mistakes in the rankings once or twice.. Like entering twice some results. If there is no mistake then please explain how it s possible to be behind you guys in the 1 year ranking and ahead in the 2 year ranking. You certainly had a better 2013 year than us and we certainly had a better 2014.

by **IcePack** on Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:04 pm

betiko wrote:Well you ve already did small mistakes in the rankings once or twice.. Like entering twice some results. If there is no mistake then please explain how it s possible to be behind you guys in the 1 year ranking and ahead in the 2 year ranking. You certainly had a better 2013 year than us and we certainly had a better 2014.

You said last month was fine, and this month was not. So the mistake must be in the results of March-April.

Point out the mistake, I'll be happy to fix it:
ATL SOH 9 7 03/01/15
RET OSA 6 6 03/02/15
GON RGX 8 8 03/05/15
FOED HH 10 2 03/05/15
RA TNC 9 7 03/06/15
PHNX MD 8 4 03/06/15
FAD KNT 11 5 03/06/15
LEG MM 11 5 03/07/15
RET MD 7 5 03/09/15
FAD VVV 8 4 03/09/15
MD FAD 7 5 03/09/15
KORT TNC 36 25 03/09/15
LEG OSA 32 29 03/10/15
G1 LOW 9 7 03/10/15
FALL ACE 6 6 03/12/15
RGX AFOS 8 8 03/12/15
FALL IA 11 5 03/14/15
KORT IA 10 6 03/15/15
LHDD VVV 11 5 03/16/15
FALL RA 11 5 03/16/15
ATL FISO 9 7 03/17/15
RET VVV 9 3 03/18/15
UM8 FAD 24 17 03/18/15
RA ATL 37 24 03/19/15
LOW MYTH 12 4 03/19/15
FALL RET 34 27 03/20/15
OSA PHNX 7 5 03/20/15
GON G1 9 7 03/20/15
ACE MM 11 5 03/21/15
LHDD PHNX 8 8 03/24/15
FALL MD 10 2 03/24/15
PHNX OSA 10 6 03/24/15
ID MYTH 10 6 03/24/15
ATL HH 8 8 03/24/15
FOED MM 11 5 03/25/15
RA KORT 9 7 03/26/15
LOW GON 11 5 03/27/15
G1 VVV 14 2 03/28/15
ACE HH 7 5 03/29/15
ACE TNC 12 4 03/29/15
LEG IA 11 5 03/29/15
SOH HH 12 4 03/29/15
RGX VVV 10 6 03/30/15

by **betiko** on Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:39 pm

I have no idea of your entire process or if you might have accidentally changed a formula in a cell or 2 of your spreadsheets mate...

But I still can't explain this:

Fallen april 2014: 1154pts
Fallen april 2015: 1242pts

LHDD april 2014: 1041pts
LHDD april 2015: 1252pts

If you have an explanation on why fallen is better ranked on the 1 year ranking then I'd be really curious to hear it. We've progressed by 211pts and you guys progressed by 88 pts, that's quite a huge difference.

by **IcePack** on Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:03 pm

I have no idea of your entire process or if you might have accidentally changed a formula in a cell or 2 of your spreadsheets mate...

That's my point I don't touch anything except to add new data from month to month in a protected field that can't alter formulas. That's how I'm able to say confidently if data isn't wrong there is not likely an error.

by **JPlo64** on Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:32 pm

After looking at this again with a clear(and sober) mind I see how I was comparing the numbers between F41, FICE and F400 may not actually work...

betiko wrote:I have no idea of your entire process or if you might have accidentally changed a formula in a cell or 2 of your spreadsheets mate...

But I still can't explain this:

Fallen april 2014: 1154pts
Fallen april 2015: 1242pts

LHDD april 2014: 1041pts
LHDD april 2015: 1252pts

If you have an explanation on why fallen is better ranked on the 1 year ranking then I'd be really curious to hear it. We've progressed by 211pts and you guys progressed by 88 pts, that's quite a huge difference.

I think it's weird yet possible... When you take away that past year of stats, it completely changes the values of what has been done this year, for better or worse.
For example,
Lets say with 2 year rankings, LHDD has earned an avg of 1300 in past year and FALL has 1200. But when you take away that previous year's results, FALL's avg points earned could jump to 1300 and LHDD's could fall to 1200 all b/c the value of the their opponents changed, for better or worse, when you take away those previous year numbers.
Also LHDD's improvement could be aided b/c of poor performances that were dropped within the past year.
(of course I am drinking again and could be completely wrong)

That being said, I still agree with Betiko that upon observation, is appears that League results are less extreme, thus often hurt the high level clans. I think this is b/c they're a completely different animal than regular wars. Thus (imo) the optimal ranking system would adjust how they're scored in some way.

by **betiko** on Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:12 am

JPlo64 wrote:After looking at this again with a clear(and sober) mind I see how I was comparing the numbers between F41, FICE and F400 may not actually work...

betiko wrote:I have no idea of your entire process or if you might have accidentally changed a formula in a cell or 2 of your spreadsheets mate...

But I still can't explain this:

Fallen april 2014: 1154pts
Fallen april 2015: 1242pts

LHDD april 2014: 1041pts
LHDD april 2015: 1252pts

If you have an explanation on why fallen is better ranked on the 1 year ranking then I'd be really curious to hear it. We've progressed by 211pts and you guys progressed by 88 pts, that's quite a huge difference.

I think it's weird yet possible... When you take away that past year of stats, it completely changes the values of what has been done this year, for better or worse.
For example,
Lets say with 2 year rankings, LHDD has earned an avg of 1300 in past year and FALL has 1200. But when you take away that previous year's results, FALL's avg points earned could jump to 1300 and LHDD's could fall to 1200 all b/c the value of the their opponents changed, for better or worse, when you take away those previous year numbers.
Also LHDD's improvement could be aided b/c of poor performances that were dropped within the past year.
(of course I am drinking again and could be completely wrong)

That being said, I still agree with Betiko that upon observation, is appears that League results are less extreme, thus often hurt the high level clans. I think this is b/c they're a completely different animal than regular wars. Thus (imo) the optimal ranking system would adjust how they're scored in some way.

yes there are way too many factors to take into consideration as you're saying... what kind of results have been dropped, what kind of results the opponents have dropped and all the relative rankings that are affected when calculating each war result. Too many factors to have a clear thing in mind.... nevertheless we still made more than twice the points than fallen did in the past 12 month... maybe a clan like pack has a shit rank in the 1 year ranking, and since it's our biggest push up (they were 3rd in the 2 year ranking and we were 10th or so when we beat them by +17) it doesn't result in a big win anymore...
I am still really surprised by the 1 year rankings.

I don't know, maybe we should have yet an extra column with the 1 year ranking of the f400's points for each clan to make it more understandable?

by **IcePack** on Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:46 am

I can just get rid of the 1 year. I did it bcuz TNC wanted to know that stat and I didn't want to commit to doing a full new ranking each month. But this was an easy way to provide basic info to those interested without a lot of extra work.

If it's causing to much problems / confusion I would rather go back to the standard F400 2 year only.