Cleared Ishihara / Ratings Abuse In Guide Games [ka]

[owenshooter]

Accused: Ishihara

The accused are suspected of: Ratings abuse in GUIDE GAMES

Comments: Search Ratings Left and you can see the ? players from GUIDE GAMES given poor ratings. On the first 2 pages of RATINGS LEFT, he has 36 single star ratings for new players. This is ridiculous.

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this was brought to my attention in a thread by a new player in the Forums: Subject: Ishihara

it is kind of ridiculous for an experienced CC player that is the co-leader of a clan to leave a poor rating and deadbeat tag for a new recruit he lost against in a GUIDE GAME. Guide Games are meant to bring people into the community, not turn them off of the community. Just earlier today a user was posting about the possibility of new users being turned off by immature actions in Guide Games... i scoffed at the notion... guess what, he was 100% correct and i stand corrected.

Of course this is not going to merit a major infraction, but he should be reprimanded and perhaps not allowed to participate in the Guide Game program. i for one love playing in guide games and offering help/info to new players when they ask for it... i am truly ashamed and appalled at this users behaviour. if a member of my clan conducted themselves in this manner, as a co-leader, i'd request a formal apology for this sort of foul behaviour. it is just poor form and i am still kind of shocked that it even occurred...

team CC should step in and possibly make an example of this user. i am always VERY VOCAL when i think team CC screws up, but i am also vocal when they do something right. Guide Games are a great idea as is Global Chat, and i hate to see people like this ruin something that is finally helping the site grow again... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus Noir

[riskllama]

+ 1.
pretty lame, itchyhore...

[t4mcr53s2]

i'd just agree that i wouldn't say something to the newb if i had nothing nice to say ; and a flame rating is saying something ... iam not criticizing ish as a person.

was i was newer, i stayed annoyed a long time after someone gave be zeros for not taking turns in a speed came i started (because comcast lost connection)

fyi i've also had newbies seem to resent suggestions to improve performance, such as don't hit neutrals early if its not giving you a bonus.. so i also offer to give pointers , not actually give them uninvited

[owenshooter]

apparently, i struck a nerve with a post in another thread about this issue:
Subject: Imperial Dragoons (ID) - [Selectively Recruiting]

Ishihara has more class than most players around here. He's already stated that he made a mistake and has offered to change the rating he gave in error.

If anyone from the Dragoons would like me to delete the above two posts, just say the word.

a mistake? ok... oh, wait... there is a post on my wall...

Or you could have just asked about it. Honest mistake on my part, no doubt meant for one of the many, many complete deadbeats that come through the guide program. I will promptly correct my mistake and apologize to the new player.

soooo, he admits to giving these sorts of ratings to players in guide games, but i am somehow wrong about all this, because he is classy?!! ok... i'm sorry, but again, if you play in Guide Games, you have to expect this sort of thing to happen. it happens in the majority of the guide games i play in. guess what? i don't give them dead beat tags and one stars!! i'm sorry, class or no class, this is poor form and he should be reprimanded and have to assure Big Wham/Team CC that he will no longer rate new recruits in guide games. it is obvious he does not understand what the games are for. hell, is it possible to make him sit out of them for a month, before he is allowed to "greet" new CC members?! can you imagine getting that greeting on CC? just what BW was hoping for... i'm sure of it... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

p.s.-i can't wait for the apology on this one...

[judge_reinhold]

If CC doesn't want you to rate new recruits in guide games, then they shouldn't let you.

Fix the UI if it's broken. It's not anyone's fault for using it.

[owenshooter]

If CC doesn't want you to rate new recruits in guide games, then they shouldn't let you.

Fix the UI if it's broken. It's not anyone's fault for using it.

good idea... i count 65 single star ratings by him for new recruits, thus far... that is just ridiculous. these games are meant to turn people onto CC, not be run off by stuff like this...-Jésus noir

p.s.-SIXTY FIVE!!! i haven't left 65 one star ratings in all my total games... wow... that is 65 new players that he could have potentially run off...

[hwhrhett]

If CC doesn't want you to rate new recruits in guide games, then they shouldn't let you.

Fix the UI if it's broken. It's not anyone's fault for using it.

good idea... i count 65 single star ratings by him for new recruits, thus far... that is just ridiculous. these games are meant to turn people onto CC, not be run off by stuff like this...-Jésus noir

p.s.-SIXTY FIVE!!! i haven't left 65 one star ratings in all my total games... wow... that is 65 new players that he could have potentially run off...

how many of those were deadbeats?

[Lord Arioch]

Dont really see the problem? If we werent supposed to rate noobs in accordance whith our concscience and within the rules of the site why is the rate then allowed for noobs?

I have also rated new recruits, in guide games, with 1s and deadbeat tag when they have deadbeated... i would do that with others as well if i feel it justifiable! BUT i will also change my rating of people when/if i play them again and if i feel ther behaviour and play as improved/or gotten worse:)

[osok68]

this is not a good thing in teaching-land.if you give bad ratings,then explain it on wall or pm,maybe you tickle e response and gain a new player on this site.To time-consuming?well,maybe bigwham should give a bonus every year to the player who brings in the most paying players so your effort is worthy...or dont give ratings at all,that will save more time...red cat has spoken

[Lord Arioch]

Well ive left the program... but i think if they dont want us to rate remove the function. I stand by the ratings ive left, and as i said i will also change em if asked and if opps play improve:) And yes i could have walled, pmed but i thought it uneccesary since the recruit deadbeated ... meaning he/she wouldnt read wall/pm?

Thoose players that played there entire game got a different rating than thoose deadbeating isnt that the whole point of the rate system? Why should we rate recruits differently than generals? Yes i get it we want more players/customers ... but i wouldnt leave due to a bad rating, god knows we all have em:), i would aske the player rating me why he rated me badly if he/she then explains the rating in a satisfactory sense i would accept it and hope that he/she will change it later on when we play again...

Cant have a separate system for recruits and a different one for general? or can we

[Dukasaur]

Well ive left the program... but i think if they dont want us to rate remove the function. I stand by the ratings ive left, and as i said i will also change em if asked and if opps play improve:) And yes i could have walled, pmed but i thought it uneccesary since the recruit deadbeated ... meaning he/she wouldnt read wall/pm?

Thoose players that played there entire game got a different rating than thoose deadbeating isnt that the whole point of the rate system? Why should we rate recruits differently than generals? Yes i get it we want more players/customers ... but i wouldnt leave due to a bad rating, god knows we all have em:), i would aske the player rating me why he rated me badly if he/she then explains the rating in a satisfactory sense i would accept it and hope that he/she will change it later on when we play again...

Cant have a separate system for recruits and a different one for general? or can we

If you were teaching your kid kickboxing would you pull your punches, or would you hit him full force and smash his bones?

Don't be an idiot. Of course you judge a new recruit by a different standard than a general with 9200 completed games.

[MagnusGreeol]

- I'm in Owens corner, Everything Owen said I fully agree with. The guidelines I use in all my Superguide wars is (1)- All get a warm welcome and I offer assistance (2)- I try and pump them up with encouragement when they are taking their turns telling them they already did better than me my first 3-5 games here in CC (3)- If they take their turns they get 5 stars across, if they deadbeat I don't rate at all. The end. Great job Owen!

[Lord Arioch]

Well i did all that also, then i rate them in accordance with the rules!
And no i wouldnt smash bones but i would most certainly be giving constructive critizism... and thats what the rate system is all about? If u want better ratings be better ...

If u didnt want us to rate the new recruits in accordance with the rules then u should have removed that option! Or said so...

Ive gotten PMs from folks asking why ive rated em, ive explained and in some cases removed the rating. And in some cases changed the rating after more games and so on...No such from any deadbeated recruit. If i got it i would rewiev and change if i deemed it appropriated.

I bear the responsibility for my ratings, not anyone else! if my ratings are wrong fine i will remove them, but then i expect someone to say so, and if we open that box in the rating system well then we can remove it all along!
Bad play is bad play doesnt matter to me if it a general or a recruit, nothing in the rate rules says i should take the amount of games in consideration when i rate...

[owenshooter]

If you were teaching your kid kickboxing would you pull your punches, or would you hit him full force and smash his bones? Don't be an idiot. Of course you judge a new recruit by a different standard than a general with 9200 completed games.

i would assume this would be common sense. why in the world would you give someone in a guide game (a teaching game), a poor rating? throw in the fact that points are not exchanged, and what would make you do this at all?! apparently, common sense is not reigning supreme in guide games... i can not imagine that BW or any of the admins envisioned the ratings in guide games going this way... wowzers... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

[clangfield]

- I'm in Owens corner, Everything Owen said I fully agree with. The guidelines I use in all my Superguide wars is (1)- All get a warm welcome and I offer assistance (2)- I try and pump them up with encouragement when they are taking their turns telling them they already did better than me my first 3-5 games here in CC (3)- If they take their turns they get 5 stars across, if they deadbeat I don't rate at all. The end. Great job Owen!

I think that's spot on. If they are borderline about returning, I would feel that positive encouragement is more likely to succeed than an 'honest' negative rating. If they deadbeat they won't care if they're rated or not, so one only needs to be concerned about those who are contemplating returning.
The trickier ones are perhaps those who show a less-than-desirable attitude in the game chat (eg profane complaints about the dice or your moves); I would still incline towards putting them straight rather than rating them badly because of it.

[owenshooter]

If they are borderline about returning, I would feel that positive encouragement is more likely to succeed than an 'honest' negative rating.

exact-a-mundo... i dont understand the confusion on this... this appears to be the crux of the matter... it is this simple, yet people can not grasp it... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

[Endgame422]

I gotta agree that bad ratings are not helping people feel welcome howver,
I dont think this needs to be a punishment for ishi or anyone who (largely wastes) their time on the frustrating guide program. I only played a couple guide games but i know its annoying when 2/3 deadbeat, and i applaud anyone whos just trying to help.
Why not just eliminate ratings on guide games?
They dont really make sense there as they are essentially freebie games anyhow and i know that certain games already have ratings disabled(BRs), so the coding part is already in place.

[Ishihara]

Interesting stuff. I have no problems that Abatrot called me out on this, as was his right. I don't even mind Owen doing what he does - I gave a new player a rating he obviously didn't deserve. In addition to responding in Abatrot's initial thread, I sent him a private message restating what's in the public thread. An offer to replay/re-rate him once he had an open game slot. After he didn't respond, I simply withdrew my rating as my only option short of playing another game with him.

I stand by my rating of a new player if he deadbeats with what I feel is an appropriate rating. I don't see the logic of giving a deadbeating newbie 5 stars and a kiss on the cheek if he never returns to the website to actually see his rating. I also stand by how I handle my guide games. I give a pretty welcoming initial chat message (far more than most of my fellow guides), and on the rare occasion that I get a newbie to talk, I feel like I am welcoming and helpful (Game 15207570 (please note: I lost this game and rated him highly - there goes your vindictive a-hole argument).

In short, if you don't like how I handle my ratings, feel free to start a discussion in the guides forum. We can address the ability to even rate new players if you feel that is best for attracting new players to the website. If the powers that run the guide program feel my calling a spade a spade isn't what they want in a guide, well, then they can drop me and I won't lose any sleep over it.

In the case of Abatrot, I made a mistake, admitted it, and made an offer to correct my mistake. Can't do much more than that.

[hwhrhett]

it was a mistake. unless theres a history of him mis-rating people then this is dumb.....

[king achilles]

Owen, I can see your point but it is still within the guidelines to rate deadbeating players poorly. Although it may or may not discourage players to come back, as far as the ratings goes, the poor ratings for deadbeating players are within reason. He did or is attempting to correct a rating that he admits to have given wrongly. I don't wholeheartedly agree to rating new players as a regular thing to do but this is cleared. Just remember that it is not necessary to rate people always so it's not a must thing to do.

[betiko]

What s up with all this deadbeating with those new recruits anyways? When I joined the site I was all excited about the game and was always checking for turns.. Mostly with only 4 slots available.
If I was in the guide game program and had players deadbeating all their turns I would give what they deserve: full 1s and suck it up cupcake.
They make a bad first impression, well others should know. Obviously missing a turn or two isn t important, but if they miss 3 turns on their first game well there goes the hammer! Probably people who will never show up again anyways, and if they don't it's pretty unlikely that the reason is "oh, i missed my turns and I received bad ratings on the site, I shall never come back cause I felt unwelcomed".
I don t know if ishihara rated poorly only deadbeats/trash talkers, but if he did, I fully support his actions.

[iAmCaffeine]

I think lots of new players expect a quick game there and then. Guide games are like that, but none of the casual games are. From my experience, most other risk sites are played quickly.

[BoganGod]

- I'm in Owens corner, Everything Owen said I fully agree with. The guidelines I use in all my Superguide wars is (1)- All get a warm welcome and I offer assistance (2)- I try and pump them up with encouragement when they are taking their turns telling them they already did better than me my first 3-5 games here in CC (3)- If they take their turns they get 5 stars across, if they deadbeat I don't rate at all. The end. Great job Owen!

Could your nose be any browner?
Owen has once again lost the plot. The dude apologised in the thread in general. No way Owen would let that go, as part of his God psychos he needs to be needlessly vindictive whilst still promising forgiveness. Lame

Owen rated me poorly in a recent game, as he can't stand having a more powerful god on site.

[abatrot]

so the newb speaks. i didn't know this was a guide game and i didn't know that it wasn't for points. all i know is that i took every turn and eventually won the game. now i don't expect parades or any fanfare but to discover that a much more experienced player - with the rank of "coronel" loses the game and then gives me the lowest rating available at every aspect of play and labels me "deadbeat".

looking at the ratings that Ishihara dishes out makes me think that he's a punk. nothing more than that. and his excuse that he did so accidentally is a punk excuse, too.

i enjoy this game alot. and the whole deadbeat dilemma is a genuine pain in the ass. but what ishihara did was nothing less than a bully abusing his position. as an experienced player who lost you'd think he'd either stfu or acknowledge defeat. he really hasn't done either. his excuses are lame and his apology forced.

and i have my first enemy. lol.

[Ishihara]

i enjoy this game alot. and the whole deadbeat dilemma is a genuine pain in the ass. but what ishihara did was nothing less than a bully abusing his position. as an experienced player who lost you'd think he'd either stfu or acknowledge defeat. he really hasn't done either. his excuses are lame and his apology forced.

and i have my first enemy. lol.

I have fully explained and accepted responsibility for my mistake. If a public apology and offer to make right what I did wrong (not to mention the private message I sent you (would you like me to forward that to the C&A folks to prove I wasn't an a-hole?) isn't enough for you, well, then I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. I stand by my record of honorable play and welcoming attitude in all of my guide games. I made a mistake - I owned up to it - I'm moving on.