Balance Not Included Mafia 3/12 End Game: Balance. Town Wins

[Metsfanmax]

Furthermore, flavor is going to pretty much be just that flavor.

This is not very helpful. Does that mean there is no information at all in the flavor text? For example, is it not safe to assume that Jones Jim was actually attempting to recruit the person who killed him?

[Streaker]

I didn't even think yet about double voters, or even a hidden vote. I came across a decent few of those on other CC games while reading them. This makes the case on Jonty that much more credible.

Also, I retargeted the action of Storr onto myself during night. I am not sure what happened, since mod gave me no notification whatsoever (of succes, of roleblock or anything).

[Streaker]

Vote Count

Storr (3)-DJfireside, PancakeMix, Jonty
Jonty (2)-Streaker, Storr

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is on Sunday around 11:30 EST.

Did I vote for Jonty on D2? If so, can't find it.

Though i'll save you the trouble:

Vote Jonty

[strike wolf]

EDIT: I thought I had before I posted this last night.

Vote Count

Storr (3)-DJfireside, PancakeMix, Jonty
Jonty (3)-Storr, Iron Butterfly, Streaker

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is on Sunday around 11:30 EST.

[Metsfanmax]

Also, I retargeted the action of Storr onto myself during night. I am not sure what happened, since mod gave me no notification whatsoever (of succes, of roleblock or anything).

If Storr is telling the truth about his role, then that action would have done nothing, since you didn't die.

[jonty125]

You targetted yourself N1, does that mean if you die on any night information on the killer will show up in the day post? Or is it one night only you have to target the soon to be deceased on the same night as there death?
Also, do you have any idea what information you would receive?

This is clearly, if ever, fishing. If I was mafia, I would want to know exactly this. Storr also already noticed this on his next post. ''Can we kill you this night, Storr, without giving information to town?'' ''Or do we go for someone else''?

... Now jonty, I would very much like to hear a reason for your fishing that much detail about Storr's power.

I wouldn't quite call it fishing, but I am information on the role because I was at the time unsure of what it did because I've never seen Crier before. Also, I wanted all the facts before I decided if Storr's role, was worth keeping alive. Now I have more information, I don't think it is.

We have played many games with mafia double voters

I can't think of "many" off the top of my head or even any but this is a balance not included, maybe I shouldn't of put him at L-1.


L-2, I'll claim. I'm Edgar Gries-Town Fumigator. It's kinda of like a super jailkeeper. In that every night I target someone and they get a bulletproof vest, and they are roleblocked until the vest is removed by a kill attempt. N1 I targetted DJFireside, because he was quiet.

[StorrZerg]

Streaker, can you be more specific?

You took my action and placed it on yourself?

Dj can you confirm being role blocked?

[StorrZerg]

@jonty why would you target dj and not myself. Dj was getting pressure at the end of day 1.

Or why wouldn't you taget james. James had been quiet, and did not vote for virus. Seems a little strange you decide to block/protect someone that was pushing virus at the end of the day.

[StorrZerg]

Also, I retargeted the action of Storr onto myself during night. I am not sure what happened, since mod gave me no notification whatsoever (of succes, of roleblock or anything).

If Storr is telling the truth about his role, then that action would have done nothing, since you didn't die.

Correct. It also means he is hard claiming that i didn't have a killing action last night. Or a role blocking action.

mets did you get your answer regarding flavor? (i didn't see a further explanation).

[StorrZerg]

pending confirmation from DJ.
Also pending confirmation from anyone else that was role blocked.

Personally i find it unlikely town would have 2 role blocks.
We should really be looking at james today. He is literally not doing anything productive for the game. This is habit form him, and will continue to the end of the game.
I find it unlikely that town would have 2 role blocks.

[Metsfanmax]

Sounds like streaker is claiming busdriver.

[StorrZerg]

Sounds like streaker is claiming busdriver.

waiting for him to confirm. But he didn't say switched actions on storr to him.

He stated re-targeted MY action.

[Iron Butterfly]

pending confirmation from DJ.
Also pending confirmation from anyone else that was role blocked.

Personally i find it unlikely town would have 2 role blocks.
We should really be looking at james today. He is literally not doing anything productive for the game. This is habit form him, and will continue to the end of the game.
I find it unlikely that town would have 2 role blocks.

Normally I would agree about blocker but this is the way roles are determined, which isn't condusive to a balanced game

So yeah. Again concept is. i have a list of roles and set ups. The set ups depend on how many sign up but the roles are completely independent and will be randomly selected regardless of it's affect on balance. This game will be non-vanilla and I aim to not screw any one over by including super restrictive roles that make you wish you were a VT. Looking for at least 12 players. No more than 18.
[/color]

Any role from his list can be ingame regardless of how it effects the game, which also means there may or may not be a doc or cop. It also means that having a Town Crier does not mean there are two factions.

[StorrZerg]

pending confirmation from DJ.
Also pending confirmation from anyone else that was role blocked.

Personally i find it unlikely town would have 2 role blocks.
We should really be looking at james today. He is literally not doing anything productive for the game. This is habit form him, and will continue to the end of the game.
I find it unlikely that town would have 2 role blocks.

Normally I would agree about blocker but this is the way roles are determined, which isn't condusive to a balanced game

So yeah. Again concept is. i have a list of roles and set ups. The set ups depend on how many sign up but the roles are completely independent and will be randomly selected regardless of it's affect on balance. This game will be non-vanilla and I aim to not screw any one over by including super restrictive roles that make you wish you were a VT. Looking for at least 12 players. No more than 18.
[/color]

Any role from his list can be ingame regardless of how it effects the game, which also means there may or may not be a doc or cop. It also means that having a Town Crier does not mean there are two factions.

Sure, but he also said

This game will be non-vanilla and I aim to not screw any one over by including super restrictive roles that make you wish you were a VT.

If there is only 1 faction in this game that i can catch (i don't count cult, since they don't kill to my knowledge) With only 1 kp per night (save for virus second shot) Then i'm basically worthless.

Even if that doesn't matter IB. Streaker said he put my action on himself. Meaning i did not have kp other wise he would have died. Meaning logically, and statistically there is a lesser chance of me being mafia.

IB, can you confirm you didn't get role blocked?

[StorrZerg]

Btw if anyone claims the ability to shoot someone today, we can prove 2 people with 1 night. Dj could be shot (he "has a vest" so will live) I can watch him, we will get 2 confirmed people out of it. Day post will announce who shot him (the role) So that can confirm that person.

Since the claims are coming out, we could very well just set up the night actions and catch scum...


Would really be nice to have Streaker and DJ come back in to confirm their role / being blocked.


Also AGAIN PSA JAMES IS NOT PLAYING THE GAME.

[pancakemix]

Btw if anyone claims the ability to shoot someone today, we can prove 2 people with 1 night. Dj could be shot (he "has a vest" so will live) I can watch him, we will get 2 confirmed people out of it. Day post will announce who shot him (the role) So that can confirm that person.

Since the claims are coming out, we could very well just set up the night actions and catch scum...


Would really be nice to have Streaker and DJ come back in to confirm their role / being blocked.


Also AGAIN PSA JAMES IS NOT PLAYING THE GAME.

None of what you just suggested makes any sense, because:

1. You said anyone who came forward as a killer at this stage was probably scum
2. Why would your role trigger if the person wasn't killed (assuming jonty is telling the truth for the sake of argument)? Isn't that the point of your role? It sounds to me like you want to waste a night (and a day, since the two most likely lynches have to be let go in that scenario).

Yeah, I'm done with you. Trying to dictate player actions is a cardinal sin in my book, and you want more people to out themselves on top of it. Couple that with everything that's transpired today and you look even worse than you did at the start.

And while I agree with you on James (believe me, I know he's been reading) I still think he should be replaced. He only seems to appear when you suggest as much, so hopefully this will conjure him (or a suitable substitute).

[StorrZerg]

Btw if anyone claims the ability to shoot someone today, we can prove 2 people with 1 night. Dj could be shot (he "has a vest" so will live) I can watch him, we will get 2 confirmed people out of it. Day post will announce who shot him (the role) So that can confirm that person.

Since the claims are coming out, we could very well just set up the night actions and catch scum...


Would really be nice to have Streaker and DJ come back in to confirm their role / being blocked.


Also AGAIN PSA JAMES IS NOT PLAYING THE GAME.

None of what you just suggested makes any sense, because:

1. You said anyone who came forward as a killer at this stage was probably scum
yes, likely. How ever they could be proved correct in this situation
2. Why would your role trigger if the person wasn't killed (assuming jonty is telling the truth for the sake of argument)? Isn't that the point of your role? It sounds to me like you want to waste a night (and a day, since the two most likely lynches have to be let go in that scenario).
My role triggers on a kill or kill attempt. hence the reasoning if someone claimed with a bullet, they could be proved town by my role.
Yeah, I'm done with you. Trying to dictate player actions is a cardinal sin in my book, and you want more people to out themselves on top of it. Couple that with everything that's transpired today and you look even worse than you did at the start.
You don't have to like my idea thats fine. I'm trying to be reasonable right now. How can you fault me for trying everything i can to prove my alignment? Also, if what streaker said is correct, I did not kill anyone in the night. Doesn't that buy me some credibility since i'm being confirmed that i didn't kill anyone.


And while I agree with you on James (believe me, I know he's been reading) I still think he should be replaced. He only seems to appear when you suggest as much, so hopefully this will conjure him (or a suitable substitute).

James has been online several times since his last post. And didn't post. You suggesting to let someone play this way, when they most likely won't be mod replaced because he has contributed the minimum required. (ok don't quote me on this, but i think he has, specially since he most certainly will come in and vote me)

Secondly, what do you think about "2 role block abilities" BOTH being town sided? Does that seem a bit much for town? Do you really believe jonty's reason to block dj fire side? Why wouldn't he use it on james who didn't vote virus and defended him? Why wouldnt' he use it on myself? Isn't his role, and the action he took seem off?

[StorrZerg]

This shouldn't be a surprise to my claim since i did state a failed kill would trigger all ready.
viewtopic.php?f=213&t=207134&sk=a&start=300#p4556021

[Metsfanmax]

Secondly, what do you think about "2 role block abilities" BOTH being town sided? Does that seem a bit much for town?

Re-read the name of the game, please.

[spiesr]

Also, I retargeted the action of Storr onto myself during night. I am not sure what happened, since mod gave me no notification whatsoever (of succes, of roleblock or anything).

Okay. so you changed Storr's target, rather than have saw he him lying. There was probably no need to mention this in the first place.

L-2, I'll claim. I'm Edgar Gries-Town Fumigator. It's kinda of like a super jailkeeper. In that every night I target someone and they get a bulletproof vest, and they are roleblocked until the vest is removed by a kill attempt. N1 I targetted DJFireside, because he was quiet.

Interesting. Can the target voluntarily remove the protection/block, and can you have it on multiple players at once?

[StorrZerg]

Secondly, what do you think about "2 role block abilities" BOTH being town sided? Does that seem a bit much for town?

Re-read the name of the game, please.

fair point.

What do you think of the ability though as town sided or mafia sided.

Second. Same as i asked before, what do you think of jonty's choice as to who he blocked. Do you agree that its odd he blocked "quiet dj who votes virus? Over blocking "Storr who defends virus" Or James "who defends virus and doesn't vote virus?"

[Metsfanmax]

Secondly, what do you think about "2 role block abilities" BOTH being town sided? Does that seem a bit much for town?

Re-read the name of the game, please.

fair point.

What do you think of the ability though as town sided or mafia sided.

Jailkeeper is almost always a town-sided role in my experience. The idea is that it's a good power role for town but the roleblocking aspect forces players to make a tradeoff. Jailkeepers are more useful as doctors than as roleblockers though. So it's a safe claim for jonty to make, assuming that the roles respected alignment when distributed.

Second. Same as i asked before, what do you think of jonty's choice as to who he blocked. Do you agree that its odd he blocked "quiet dj who votes virus? Over blocking "Storr who defends virus" Or James "who defends virus and doesn't vote virus?"

It's certainly odd that you're calling someone out for blocking the person you rallied against as scum at the end of D1. Presumably you should be happy that he followed your lead. I obviously don't know his thought process, but it's plausible that he believed that you simply made an unintentional error in switching away from virus at the end, but that your instincts about dj were also correct. I couldn't entirely blame someone for thinking at the end of D1 that you're town for your original case on virus even if you still made that strange switch.

As for James, it's just really hard to know in this case. It's possible that he just forgot to send in his role on N1, etc., so a roleblock on him would be possibly wasted. Also note that the claim jonty gave is for a difficult role. If you target scum, then it's a mixed result because you'll roleblock them but also you're protecting them from any town kills. So you don't do it willy-nilly.

[JamesKer1]

I was not roleblocked night one, I even asked because I received no PM. The target I use my action on died during the night, though I was not the one to kill him. Strike, if this is not the case, feel free to correct me.

Detailed post to come in a little bit, putting some finishing touches on it and have to step away.

[JamesKer1]

I was not roleblocked night one, I even asked because I received no PM. The target I use my action on died during the night, though I was not the one to kill him. Strike, if this is not the case, feel free to correct me.

Detailed post to come in a little bit, putting some finishing touches on it and have to step away.

Apologies. Misinterpreted and thought that this information was requested for.

[StorrZerg]

Who did you visit james? tambo or hotshot