The Decline of 8 Player Freestyle Speed Games

[iAmCaffeine]

Get rid of the delay for a start. It completely ruins casual freestyle, never mind speed. The most common casual freestyle players are freemiums looking to play 1v1, except when their game is joined they have to wait another hour.

Before all the "they should buy premium arguments come in", they would have been more likely to buy premium if the setting hadn't been cocked up, not once their style of play has been ruined.

I don't know what else has changed for speed freestyle apart from the delays, which aren't the end of the world. It's just dead. Most of the speed freestylers I knew have left the site, or at least the setting. The majority have a certain brash attitude, myself included, and were often in the forums, but since they've gone to crap as well the players aren't around any more.

The typical sequential players that think it's all about internet connection and don't have a clue yet continue to diss freestyle don't help either.

Yes internet connection and speed matter in those setting DUH. But I think the sites lag is a bigger issue. I have trouble playing a 1v1 could only imagine playing 7 players. Or even a 1v1 freestyle.

It matters to a degree, but not as much as non-freestyle players claim. They just can't accept it's a different kind of strategy which they don't understand. Look at the Conquerors and see how many of them could play freestyle. Nearly all top freestyle players are quality in sequential as well.

[jammyjames]

freestyle has little to do with internet connection speed and ping.

My proof is the fact my internet connection would be regularly below or around 1.0mbps/0.6mbps with at minimum a 48ms latency.

It's all in the setup of the computer to reduce lag / lack of speed. Trust me.

I used to hit 2 attacks in a second with a connection at this speed.

[IcePack]

48ms is pretty good, most I talk to it's 100-200 min. Mine typically is 150ms +/- but goes up to 1000ms occasionally.

[jammyjames]

Even with a latency like that, the speed of down/upload will effect more considering it was less than a MB on frequent occassions.

[jammyjames]

[jammyjames]

Note the "slower than 87%" of my entire country.... Yes that's right. I'm below the poverty line in regards to internet connection.

[rhp 1]

Christ.... This so convoluted it hardly makes sense to comment... There are so many reasons speed fs is dead, DF is shining a light on one of them. I'm not sure if his point is the most valid, but its valid nonetheless. And I liked Tenes post which summed up the issues now if not actually offering any resolution or explaining causes (which is fine BTW). I'm not sure... No... I'm dubious admins could have saved FS, but at best, nothing they did helped the issue, and at worst hastened FS's demise. Ive stopped playing pretty much due to this fact, and what worse, I'm not alone... We've lost a lot of GREAT players who have left, at least in part, because of this issue. And as far as sequential players commenting here? Feel free, but hell, anyone who actually plays/played FS with any skill whatsoever is laughing at your incoherent babbling.

[Shannon Apple]

Rhp, if you read my post correctly, you would realise that I said that speed in general is almost dead. There's nothing wrong with lowly seq players mentioning all speed games. Sure, it's been killed by lag but also by a few diehards who are left wandering the halls. The issues regarding speed are not limited to freestyle. if people want new people to try speed, they have to be less douchbaggy about it. If they're laughing, so be it. They just proved the point. It would be nice to see both types of speeders picking up again, but I dunno, it might be too late.

[Agent 86]

Note the "slower than 87%" of my entire country.... Yes that's right. I'm below the poverty line in regards to internet connection.

Try slower than 100% of every country..Freestyle is not an option for Chinese players even with a VPN

[BigBallinStalin]

Note the "slower than 87%" of my entire country.... Yes that's right. I'm below the poverty line in regards to internet connection.

Try slower than 100% of every country..Freestyle is not an option for Chinese players even with a VPN

[iAmCaffeine]

Rhp, if you read my post correctly, you would realise that I said that speed in general is almost dead. There's nothing wrong with lowly seq players mentioning all speed games. Sure, it's been killed by lag but also by a few diehards who are left wandering the halls. The issues regarding speed are not limited to freestyle. if people want new people to try speed, they have to be less douchbaggy about it. If they're laughing, so be it. They just proved the point. It would be nice to see both types of speeders picking up again, but I dunno, it might be too late.

That's wonderful, but we're talking about the decline of speed freestyle, not just speed.

[rhp 1]

Rhp, if you read my post correctly, you would realise that I said that speed in general is almost dead. There's nothing wrong with lowly seq players mentioning all speed games. Sure, it's been killed by lag but also by a few diehards who are left wandering the halls. The issues regarding speed are not limited to freestyle. if people want new people to try speed, they have to be less douchbaggy about it. If they're laughing, so be it. They just proved the point. It would be nice to see both types of speeders picking up again, but I dunno, it might be too late.

My bad yo. I just read the title of the thread and limited my comments to that. If there's a thread about the decline of all speeders, I'll comment on that too. Link it up. But this thread was kinda in my wheelhouse so I commented.. Which was my point about seq players commenting. They can if they choose... Its just that their comments hold no weight and really can't add anything of importance or relevance

[DoomYoshi]

I don't play those settings at all (they sound horrible). But what is it that changed that keeps those players away?
Those declines started well before the current admin.
Lag complAints are more recent then the declines.

Shed some light or link to those old posts that detail some of the negative changes?

Didn't you read the announcement? They took out double turns.

[Mr Changsha]

Back in the day (heh heh) the suspicion was that the freestyle double turn allowed the most grevious kinds of farming (on speed dubs, 1 vs 1 etc) and was abolished for that reason.

Interestingly, back then a player like demonfork was able to post +6000 scores (as was herpes, rabbiton) from freestyle farming and the sequential community (led by players like blitzaholic..who was of course just as bent) were furious, as it meant that sequential players could never top the scoreboard.

As a consequence, we see now that the top of the scoreboard is exclusively dominated by sequential players.

On the other hand, the rule change did also happen to destroy the 8 man speed freestyle game, which was indeed a great shame as it was superb to watch, even for those of us who didn't play.

So in conclusion, isn't it all rather amusing that the OP who is complaining about this rule change destroying 8 man speed freestyle just happens to be one of the key players who farmed in such a way to cause the rule change in the first place!

[Mr Changsha]

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=95425&p=2182445#p2182445

Here was a thread from the time discussing the issue...interesting to see people's views on this at the time.

[Tenebrus]

As a regular fs speed player who wishes with all of his shriveled, blackened heart that 8p fs speed games would come back, I still like the rule change. It should have very little effect on speed fs games - and particularly those with a decent chunk of competent players (as they always did). That rule was a farmer's dream come true, and I'm glad it's gone.

[iAmCaffeine]

Agreed on that rule, that's not really why freestyle has died. I think it's more to do with people not wanting to learn because they get outplayed by good freestylers too easily and nobody teaches them. There used to be a usergroup for speed freestylers, but I think it died.

[rhp 1]

Back in the day (heh heh) the suspicion was that the freestyle double turn allowed the most grevious kinds of farming (on speed dubs, 1 vs 1 etc) and was abolished for that reason.

Interestingly, back then a player like demonfork was able to post +6000 scores (as was herpes, rabbiton) from freestyle farming and the sequential community (led by players like blitzaholic..who was of course just as bent) were furious, as it meant that sequential players could never top the scoreboard.

As a consequence, we see now that the top of the scoreboard is exclusively dominated by sequential players.

On the other hand, the rule change did also happen to destroy the 8 man speed freestyle game, which was indeed a great shame as it was superb to watch, even for those of us who didn't play.

So in conclusion, isn't it all rather amusing that the OP who is complaining about this rule change destroying 8 man speed freestyle just happens to be one of the key players who farmed in such a way to cause the rule change in the first place!

I like ur comments here and agree to some extent with much of it. But again, this thread was about speed fs in general and 8 man fs speeders specifically. And in reference to your farming comments I have a few retorts. 1. Casual fs is for all intents and purposes is farming. 2. Farming is either explicit or implied... Farming that is breaking the rules, is explicit, and thoroughly spelled out in then myriad of rules trying to stop it (insert chuckle here). Then there is implicit but "acceptable" farming, which is starting public games where the odds of someone winning against.you is close to zero. This strat is legal, but frowned upon by some. As far as 8 man fs speeders which is the subject matter here, farming on that setting is really not possible.

[rhp 1]

And fs is dead, period. I knew and played with/against all but the earliest top fs players. There are no good fs players left who play anything other than the occasional 2 or 3 person games. I can only think of 2 or 3 good fs players who even play at all anymore. Yeah... 2 or 3.

[jammyjames]

I was good... once upon a time haha.

[demonfork]

Back in the day (heh heh) the suspicion was that the freestyle double turn allowed the most grevious kinds of farming (on speed dubs, 1 vs 1 etc) and was abolished for that reason.

Interestingly, back then a player like demonfork was able to post +6000 scores (as was herpes, rabbiton) from freestyle farming and the sequential community (led by players like blitzaholic..who was of course just as bent) were furious, as it meant that sequential players could never top the scoreboard.

As a consequence, we see now that the top of the scoreboard is exclusively dominated by sequential players.

On the other hand, the rule change did also happen to destroy the 8 man speed freestyle game, which was indeed a great shame as it was superb to watch, even for those of us who didn't play.

So in conclusion, isn't it all rather amusing that the OP who is complaining about this rule change destroying 8 man speed freestyle just happens to be one of the key players who farmed in such a way to cause the rule change in the first place!

Try again Gary. I got to number 1 playing 1v1 feudal war, 2.1, & mogul speeders that I started, that were open to anyone that wanted to play. These games had nothing to do with "double turns".

Think that it was farming all you want if you want to remain completely clueless. Getting to #1 was one was one of the hardest endeavors that I ever undertook. I spent hours practicing and honing my skill. You have no clue what it takes to be good at speed freestyle, the ability is beyond you, so you sir can f*ck off.

I'm glad that your so amused by your own bullshit.

[rhp 1]

Back in the day (heh heh) the suspicion was that the freestyle double turn allowed the most grevious kinds of farming (on speed dubs, 1 vs 1 etc) and was abolished for that reason.

Interestingly, back then a player like demonfork was able to post +6000 scores (as was herpes, rabbiton) from freestyle farming and the sequential community (led by players like blitzaholic..who was of course just as bent) were furious, as it meant that sequential players could never top the scoreboard.

As a consequence, we see now that the top of the scoreboard is exclusively dominated by sequential players.

On the other hand, the rule change did also happen to destroy the 8 man speed freestyle game, which was indeed a great shame as it was superb to watch, even for those of us who didn't play.

So in conclusion, isn't it all rather amusing that the OP who is complaining about this rule change destroying 8 man speed freestyle just happens to be one of the key players who farmed in such a way to cause the rule change in the first place!

Try again Gary. I got to number 1 playing 1v1 feudal war, 2.1, & mogul speeders that I started, that were open to anyone that wanted to play. These games had nothing to do with "double turns".

Think that it was farming all you want if you want to remain completely clueless. Getting to #1 was one was one of the hardest endeavors that I ever undertook. I spent hours practicing and honing my skill. You have no clue what it takes to be good at speed freestyle, the ability is beyond you, so you sir can f*ck off.

I'm glad that your so amused by your own bullshit.

DF brings up what talked about earlier.. The implicit vs. Explicit farming thing. What Demon did to get to the top IMO is not farming. Any top fs player will startcpublic games on his settings knowing whomever joins has little shot of winning. I don't think its farming, and not because I do it, I think its starting a game and playing the person who happens to join. If they're clueless? Oh well.. But as Demon points out, if you think there is no skill making conq playing 1v 1 fs games to get there, you're lost.

[owenshooter]

But as Demon points out, if you think there is no skill making conq playing 1v 1 fs games to get there, you're lost.

i agree 100%... 1v1 fs is an entirely different type of game/beast... fs in general is... in the early days of being on here, i was quick to just separate the site into 2 halves. games i can play AND FREESTYLE... i agree with my benefactor and rhp, and not just because one paid for my latest premium and the other scares the hell out of me ...-el Jesus negro

[rhp 1]

Lol.

[KraphtOne]

I remember the ruling to which DF is referring...

it ruined 1vs1 casual freestyle... absolutely ruined it...

and back then we could only play 5 min. speed freestyle games... so it ruined 1vs1 speed freestylers too... absolutely ruined them...

Now you can play 1 min. speed games so it no longer has any true effect on that, but it still ruins the skill (along with waiting to start the game, what the hell is that?) of a casual freestyle game...

BEFORE i could set up a 1vs1 casual freestyle game, and although i had no clue when the game would start, and couldn't stop anyone from going first... i could make 100% sure that I know when round 2 starts... because it starts when i end my turn (and i don't have to wait on the other player to take a turn)... This meant that someone who joins my game will have to wait (along with myself) 24 hours to take their turn right at the end of the 24 hour time limit... this way we BOTH know when the second round starts (and really when any round starts) and it was the fairest type of gameplay that this site has, and the better players won 90% of the time... and scores got wildly high...

If you join a 1vs1 casual freestyle game NOW, you will be taking the first turn for the rest of the game if you so chose... and that's an insane advantage which keeps intelligent people from creating 1vs1 freestyle games...

So 1vs1 casual freestyle died and will never return again... because it puts the creator of the game at a disadvantage... and even if you do end up being there when the attack phase begins and can go first, it puts you at no strategic advantage... its basically a crap shoot, and hence NOBODY is putting up sick win % at it anymore...

This, however... This has NOTHING to do with why nobody plays speed games... because lets face it, it isn't just speed freestyle its speed everything that has gradually died... And not just speed has died... Everything has died...

i submit this for you to think about...

How many game types were there in 2009?

How many new game settings were added the next year? Or the next?

Not add-ons or updates that have to do with speed or new rules and what not... I'm talking about trench, poly, different fortifications etc....

i will elaborate later (as i do not have time right now)... but it has been my contention for a while now that because people have more options to create games with, it keeps them from joining other types of games... so game types become clickish, where only a few people end up playing each type... until those people run out of opponents, and then they don't want to play anymore because they can't find opponents that will play their game type... (and with speed we want someone to play our game and play it NOW)