Wishy-Washy Mafia (7/13) Endgame: Forgiveness (Town Win)

[Melkor52]

Once again I risk getting the FOS pointed at me for asking a noob question, but, might it not be easier to find the power role players than the mafia scum? Then at least we would have a smaller suspect base for lynch votes. Or is this a stupid idea and just as difficult as finding scum?

That feels like a bad idea to me.
What if there is no doc?
What if a mafia claims to be a town power role?

That's why I asked. So far I see no way to identify anyone. Since anyone can say anything they like how can anyone tell a mafia scum from a town by anything other than a "gut feeling"?

[virus90]

well 2 docs is not very probable so you could know it that way. same for cops etc, so fake claiming is dangerous for mafia

[safariguy5]

Once again I risk getting the FOS pointed at me for asking a noob question, but, might it not be easier to find the power role players than the mafia scum? Then at least we would have a smaller suspect base for lynch votes. Or is this a stupid idea and just as difficult as finding scum?

That feels like a bad idea to me.
What if there is no doc?
What if a mafia claims to be a town power role?

That's why I asked. So far I see no way to identify anyone. Since anyone can say anything they like how can anyone tell a mafia scum from a town by anything other than a "gut feeling"?

You can look at patterns of voting and posting. If two people seem to be agreeing with each other a lot, it could show some sort of connection between them. Looking at what order a person votes on the bandwagon can show you whether they are bandwagonning. Timing is very important. It's easier for mafia players to just add votes to a case than go and start a case by themselves because it draws more attention to themselves if they start accusing people. When you pressure someone to claim, if they claim some sort of role with a night action, the mafia players will have to make up night actions. This can lead to them getting caught by someone who has information about what really happened.

Of course, these are pretty well known scum tells, so a good mafia player will try to disguise themselves by not doing some of them or doing the opposite. But it's a good starting point.

[benga]

Once again I risk getting the FOS pointed at me for asking a noob question, but, might it not be easier to find the power role players than the mafia scum? Then at least we would have a smaller suspect base for lynch votes. Or is this a stupid idea and just as difficult as finding scum?

That feels like a bad idea to me.
What if there is no doc?
What if a mafia claims to be a town power role?

That's why I asked. So far I see no way to identify anyone. Since anyone can say anything they like how can anyone tell a mafia scum from a town by anything other than a "gut feeling"?

You can look at patterns of voting and posting. If two people seem to be agreeing with each other a lot, it could show some sort of connection between them. Looking at what order a person votes on the bandwagon can show you whether they are bandwagonning. Timing is very important. It's easier for mafia players to just add votes to a case than go and start a case by themselves because it draws more attention to themselves if they start accusing people. When you pressure someone to claim, if they claim some sort of role with a night action, the mafia players will have to make up night actions. This can lead to them getting caught by someone who has information about what really happened.

Of course, these are pretty well known scum tells, so a good mafia player will try to disguise themselves by not doing some of them or doing the opposite. But it's a good starting point.

and what if mafia is smart

e.g. kratos pushing one way and virus pushing other way

also TFO is awfully quiet??

[gregwolf121]

yes i will agree that my posting in this game has been sub-par real life got to me.

but anyways since i am at L-2 i will claim in essence i am the town cop, each night i can investigate someone and receive either their role or alignment.
N1 i investigated Jonty's role and was told that he was a VT.

[virus90]

unvote
i dont have anything to prove it or counter it, but i believe he is telling the truth.

now hope we have a doc that can save you tonight.
And maybe you can reread and see if you stumble across some scumtells we havent seen yet. Hope to hear more from you

(gregwolf: this kind of gives me a flashback to another game, my first ever)

[virus90]

add on:
a confirmation of jonty is kind of welcome ofcourse. but i expect no different message from him.
it is said before but keep in mind that what we now know can change next round (read: jonty can be recruited)
thinking about that; so can gregwolf. is there a role in mafia games that protects against recruiting?
well that all is for a different moment...

[kratos644]

add on:
a confirmation of jonty is kind of welcome ofcourse. but i expect no different message from him.
it is said before but keep in mind that what we now know can change next round (read: jonty can be recruited)
thinking about that; so can gregwolf. is there a role in mafia games that protects against recruiting?
well that all is for a different moment...

There is no role to protect against recruiting but there are roles like watcher or tracker that can be helpful. For seeing who actually visited a person or where a person when. Both recruiter and mafia have to watch for that person though

[safariguy5]

add on:
a confirmation of jonty is kind of welcome ofcourse. but i expect no different message from him.
it is said before but keep in mind that what we now know can change next round (read: jonty can be recruited)
thinking about that; so can gregwolf. is there a role in mafia games that protects against recruiting?
well that all is for a different moment...

Quick clarification here for greg, did you say that the investigation turned up innocent on jonty or that it said he was a VT? Because an investigation that turns up the actual role would be extremely powerful.

[TheForgivenOne]

add on:
a confirmation of jonty is kind of welcome ofcourse. but i expect no different message from him.
it is said before but keep in mind that what we now know can change next round (read: jonty can be recruited)
thinking about that; so can gregwolf. is there a role in mafia games that protects against recruiting?
well that all is for a different moment...

I've only ever seen one on other sites, never on this one though. So I highly doubt we would see on in this game.

As for me bringing up no cases, I actually brought one up against Melkor on D1, but it gained no traction probably because he's new to the game (I voted him because he basically threw on a jokevote when jv's were clearly done).

I hate to say it, but i'm sick again (I'm hoping it's just a cold, and not H1N1).

@Greg: You say that you receive either Alignment OR role. Did the mod explain to you which situation will give you the role, and which one would give the alignment, or is it random?

[kratos644]

add on:
a confirmation of jonty is kind of welcome ofcourse. but i expect no different message from him.
it is said before but keep in mind that what we now know can change next round (read: jonty can be recruited)
thinking about that; so can gregwolf. is there a role in mafia games that protects against recruiting?
well that all is for a different moment...

Quick clarification here for greg, did you say that the investigation turned up innocent on jonty or that it said he was a VT? Because an investigation that turns up the actual role would be extremely powerful.

Also to keep in mind though, role cops usually turn up a VT result for mafia goons as well because they give no alignment, in most cases.

[Nebuchadnezer]

add on:
a confirmation of jonty is kind of welcome ofcourse. but i expect no different message from him.
it is said before but keep in mind that what we now know can change next round (read: jonty can be recruited)
thinking about that; so can gregwolf. is there a role in mafia games that protects against recruiting?
well that all is for a different moment...

Quick clarification here for greg, did you say that the investigation turned up innocent on jonty or that it said he was a VT? Because an investigation that turns up the actual role would be extremely powerful.

Also to keep in mind though, role cops usually turn up a VT result for mafia goons as well because they give no alignment, in most cases.

Isn't VT significantly different than Mafia Goon?

[HotShot53]

add on:
a confirmation of jonty is kind of welcome ofcourse. but i expect no different message from him.
it is said before but keep in mind that what we now know can change next round (read: jonty can be recruited)
thinking about that; so can gregwolf. is there a role in mafia games that protects against recruiting?
well that all is for a different moment...

Quick clarification here for greg, did you say that the investigation turned up innocent on jonty or that it said he was a VT? Because an investigation that turns up the actual role would be extremely powerful.

Also to keep in mind though, role cops usually turn up a VT result for mafia goons as well because they give no alignment, in most cases.

Isn't VT significantly different than Mafia Goon?

I guess when you look at it, an ordinary mafia member doesn't really have a special "power", they are just part of a group with a power. so their "role" is nothing special, i.e. vanilla.

[benga]

vote TFO

too quiet and hiding behind other people activity

[gregwolf121]

@TFO i decided which i receive, i can ask for either, i figured that the role would be more useful to know than plain alignment, as you can deduce most alignments from the role.
@safari it came back as VT

[TheForgivenOne]

vote TFO

too quiet and hiding behind other people activity

Really? So I post and I'm too quiet?

Within 24 hours you post that i've been quiet, that i'm awfully quiet, (I post), then you vote me for being quiet. Have you ever heard of people having lives? I know it's hard to believe and everything..

I admit i've been busy and sick, plus i'm dealing with a big case in C&A, plus running the BR's...

Your posts haven't had much filler in them, a WHOLE bunch of one or two liners.

And since the jokevote stage ended, you have voted on ONE whole case, in which your reasoning was "I agree with so-and-so". since then, you've only really posted a ton of one liners. That's it. Your posts don't have and substance, adding in a bunch of WIFOM.

I've tried two cases actually, one on Melkor (For his jokevote), and one on virus d1 for getting scared of the vet bring up cases. You've brought up one case on someone who was inactive..

[jonty125]

I can confirm I am a VT. unvote gregwolf

[benga]

vote TFO

too quiet and hiding behind other people activity

Really? So I post and I'm too quiet?

Within 24 hours you post that i've been quiet, that i'm awfully quiet, (I post), then you vote me for being quiet. Have you ever heard of people having lives? I know it's hard to believe and everything..

I admit i've been busy and sick, plus i'm dealing with a big case in C&A, plus running the BR's...

Your posts haven't had much filler in them, a WHOLE bunch of one or two liners.

And since the jokevote stage ended, you have voted on ONE whole case, in which your reasoning was "I agree with so-and-so". since then, you've only really posted a ton of one liners. That's it. Your posts don't have and substance, adding in a bunch of WIFOM.

I've tried two cases actually, one on Melkor (For his jokevote), and one on virus d1 for getting scared of the vet bring up cases. You've brought up one case on someone who was inactive..

so you have been busy all the time and the minute I vote you you come rushin in?

yes, i a bunch of 1liners, no need for me to endlessly repeat things that have been said over and over again

[virus90]

I can confirm I am a VT. unvote gregwolf

didn't think you would do anything else;)
of course with the role cop ability being used we have to keep in mind that you could have been a mafia goon so turn up VT. but you were not on my powerrole or mafia list, so that makes you unknown / possibly VT list. which adds up so for now i believe that gregwolf's claim and yours are both true.

[Nebuchadnezer]

I can confirm I am a VT. unvote gregwolf

didn't think you would do anything else;)
of course with the role cop ability being used we have to keep in mind that you could have been a mafia goon so turn up VT. but you were not on my powerrole or mafia list, so that makes you unknown / possibly VT list. which adds up so for now i believe that gregwolf's claim and yours are both true.

Virus, you need to stop casting suspicion on the gregwolf's result. VT does not equal goon. By saying that they are equal, you look scummy...like you're trying to say that Jonty could still be mafia. It's what scum do...always try to cast doubt on other players even thought they may be cleared. So knock it off, or I vote you for based on bad play.

vote TFO

too quiet and hiding behind other people activity

Really? So I post and I'm too quiet?

Within 24 hours you post that i've been quiet, that i'm awfully quiet, (I post), then you vote me for being quiet. Have you ever heard of people having lives? I know it's hard to believe and everything..

I admit i've been busy and sick, plus i'm dealing with a big case in C&A, plus running the BR's...

Your posts haven't had much filler in them, a WHOLE bunch of one or two liners.

And since the jokevote stage ended, you have voted on ONE whole case, in which your reasoning was "I agree with so-and-so". since then, you've only really posted a ton of one liners. That's it. Your posts don't have and substance, adding in a bunch of WIFOM.

I've tried two cases actually, one on Melkor (For his jokevote), and one on virus d1 for getting scared of the vet bring up cases. You've brought up one case on someone who was inactive..

Vote Theforgivenone

A bit of an overreaction here isn't it, TFO? It always bothers the heck out of me when people start throwing in "real life gets in the way" excuses. Either you're posting and participating or you're not. Don't play the RL card when some attention gets thrown your way. While I think virus has not played very well, I do have to say that I think he is town. So, let's see what you're getting so jumpy on one vote, shall we?

[safariguy5]

I can confirm I am a VT. unvote gregwolf

didn't think you would do anything else;)
of course with the role cop ability being used we have to keep in mind that you could have been a mafia goon so turn up VT. but you were not on my powerrole or mafia list, so that makes you unknown / possibly VT list. which adds up so for now i believe that gregwolf's claim and yours are both true.

Like I said before, if we have a cult recruiter, it makes more sense to have just a SKer as opposed to a true mafia group. Given what we know from Night 1, it's highly unlikely to me that we would have mafia goons as I do not believe we have a mafia "group".

[Melkor52]

I can confirm I am a VT. unvote gregwolf

didn't think you would do anything else;)
of course with the role cop ability being used we have to keep in mind that you could have been a mafia goon so turn up VT. but you were not on my powerrole or mafia list, so that makes you unknown / possibly VT list. which adds up so for now i believe that gregwolf's claim and yours are both true.

Like I said before, if we have a cult recruiter, it makes more sense to have just a SKer as opposed to a true mafia group. Given what we know from Night 1, it's highly unlikely to me that we would have mafia goons as I do not believe we have a mafia "group".

*********************** Warning Possible Noobie Foolishness Below **********************

Just some thoughts I'm trying to sort out. A lot of this stuff is not in the mafia forum handbook.

1) If there is no mafia, then the game is town vs cult, right? If so then the cult must have a way to kill towns folk. If not then the first town player who doesn't accept the recruiter's offer exposes him as a cult member and the cult looses it's recruiter. (Or does the town player even have a choice when recruited)?

2) Can the mafia have a recruiter? That would be better than killing a town player. Killing a player just reduces the town's population, but recruitment lowers the town population and raises the mafia's numbers.

3) What exactly is a SK, and who's side would he be on?

4) Does this town have a vigilante? Is that the same as a SK?

Thanks Safariguy for the clues to look for. I'll have to go back and reread the posts before the next vote deadline. But it seems to me that a smart mafia group would try to point the FOS at more than one town player to avoid detection. (Where's the Sherlock Homes player when you need him)?

[gregwolf121]

in answer to your questions melkor
1 no cult doesn't have a way to kill town, at least not usually, what cult usually have is the ability to recruit players, and no the players generally don't have a choice. sometimes the mod will add roles that can't be recruited, but in general cult recruits and the players can't say no

2 yes mafia can have a recruiter, but if they do they act more like a cult than mafia, in that they just can recruit and can't kill, of course that would also depend on how the mod set things up.

3 SK=serial killer, they are third party and just kill whoever they want, they win when everyone else is dead. so the SK doesn't have a side

4 vig is similar to SK the difference being that vig's work with the town. as to if we have one, no clue

[jonty125]

VT does not equal goon.

When I mod with role cop, I give Vanilla for goon.

[Melkor52]

in answer to your questions melkor
1 no cult doesn't have a way to kill town, at least not usually, what cult usually have is the ability to recruit players, and no the players generally don't have a choice. sometimes the mod will add roles that can't be recruited, but in general cult recruits and the players can't say no

2 yes mafia can have a recruiter, but if they do they act more like a cult than mafia, in that they just can recruit and can't kill, of course that would also depend on how the mod set things up.

3 SK=serial killer, they are third party and just kill whoever they want, they win when everyone else is dead. so the SK doesn't have a side

4 vig is similar to SK the difference being that vig's work with the town. as to if we have one, no clue

Thanks for clearing that up. But it seems everything is stacked against the town players. Mafia all know who each other are, I assume a cult would know who they all are. We can't help but be recruited at will, and even if we have a vig we can't know because if one was known as a vig he would be killed by the mafia or recruited. We can't even trust someone claiming to be a cop because he could just as easily be scum or cult lying to clear a mafia brother or cult follower. Makes a guy want to sit in the closet at night with a loaded gun. Quick, someone light the bat signal. :^)