Adjustments to league format for CL6?

[Qwert]

But if you have 3 tier relegation-promotion,, then some clan will not get any chance to play against stronger clans, and will play in third league for long time.
Any how its only mine oppinion, and clans will decide , what they think its good and what are bad.

I don't understand the pb with that. If you have in 3rd league then you are not that good. What would be the interest of people in 3rd league to play against top 5 clans? They won't have a chance, lost almost all their match, and that's it.
I am for, if a relegation-promotion system. 2 tier or 3 tier doesnt really matter for me. But if we have 3 league, then people from 3rd league wouldn't have a chance to go 1st league anyway even in a 2 tier system. So no big deal.
Plus if we have 3 league with 16 clans, then I think It will finish faster than 2 league with 24 clans, so as soon as we have winner for each league we start the new one. If we can do it faster than once a year, no problem of clan being stuck for too long in 3rd league if they deserve to go 1st league.

And for clan quitting in middle of a league, they start next season at the lowest league, I agree on Viper with that, no prob.

Cl5 league will be finish in less then 8 month , third league will be finished in one month earlier. So this give 3 month for preparation for new League.

nothing against that , but first need to do several steps
1- are clans want this system of competition? (stronger clans could have objection on this, just look TOFU example, they withdraw on middle of CL5, so this clan will be automatic relegated into 3rd League)
2- who will be in Premier, who will be in Second-who will be in third?
3-new set of rules
4-organisation need to be same or higher then in CL5 , its will need people who will invest 100% time on this.

[Kaiser_Tottenham]

it's embarrassment to suggest a format where we can see top ranked clans playing in 2nd division or something like that, IMO division should be sorted by clan ranking, no way new clans or 1 or 2 average clan should fight in premier league just because they did well in 1 or 2 qualifying rounds.

I'm in 100% behind ViperOverLord over his plans.. also there is no need for playing each team twice, since we already do some home/away maps in each clan war, 1 game isn't bad, 2 is good, but you'll have less clans, you need more divisions, which could put a huge work-load on tournament organizers ( more tables - more threads etc.. ) .. and if one or two clans decided to withdraw from the league or the clan to be closed, you'll see the league become with less teams, specially if you have more than 2 tiers and that team quit from top tier, you may wish to punish them to the last tier but this might make more teams benefit from this situation, which kill the tournament spirit..

if you could make two tiers, this would be good:
1- Premier league 18-20 clans
2- Second league ( 2 groups - 16-20 in each - top 2 to be promoted )

or 24-24 may be good, but we need to study and make sure that.. the tournament won't take more than 12 months..

next year, we should have cup structure too, may be it's worth to take premier league clans plus half clans in each group in 2nd league, this idea to make some clans trying their best in last fixture games to reach clan cup... I would say this cup to be created to motive some clans to do best until the end.

why two groups in second league? there are many reasons:
1-if we added 3rd tier, this may kill some players passion in 3rd tier, as they couldn't think of 2 years stay commitment to CC, it might be too long for some people, so if they think they can fight in top flight division within 1 year, they would do a lot better.
2- as i said, better flexibility if a clan Extinct or withdraw from the league.. as i said above..

cheers..

[Qwert]

>>>if you could make two tiers, this would be good:
1- Premier league 18-20 clans
2- Second league ( 2 groups - 16-20 in each - top 2 to be promoted ) <<<<

i still think that this its to big number,, i even think that we dont have this number of clans here.
Maybe 18 clans could be maximum for Premier League,, and two Second league with 15 clans each.This can give you 48 clans total.
Also i think its possible to play separate home and away, if you start immediately league , because you could play 2 round every second week, and this will give you 34 week competition for Premier League,, and 28 week competition for Second League.

[jetsetwilly]

First before deciding on change we should take feedback on whether cl5's structure has been popular.

Surely if the majority of clans are happy with the format then it doesn't need a major overhaul. (I have no idea if they are !)

Personally I think it was a lot stronger than the previous formats and would happily go again with the same.

[Vid_FISO]

My thoughts from the bottom end of the clan ranks.

I've found CL5 to be a chore and as such became disinterested long ago in it. Initially the idea of covering a lot of different maps didn't seem too bad an idea as it would get more map views into clan members, but at the end of the day far too many maps means that beyond the one game at the time nothing really is likely to be picked up for future use. A very significant number of "home" maps that were nothing of the sort giving an instant advantage to opponents that are generally stronger with wider map knowledge, where's the competition or fun in that? Keeping maps back for specific individuals to lead that then were unavailable due to holidays/ internet problems/ life issues would also make some home maps into away maps too.

Splitting the clan ranks into roughly thirds, one third will never be relegated, one third will be forever trying to avoid relegation/ gain promotion and the one third will never be promoted in a two tier system, at least not without significant change in membership for any given clan.

Facing 2 different clans in the one game week, an okay idea but to me not really a good one, surely far easier for all to manage if one clan faces a different clan both home and away?

Micro-management of each match, surely unnecessary? With over 600 wars completed all clans have shown themselves capable of creating games and reporting results, okay, I'll grant you that some are more on the ball than others for both creation and reporting, but at least if it were 2 clans facing each other in one game week it would be more likely for one to chase the other to create games and at least one of the two (likely to be the winning clan) reporting results promptly.

Rather than having set game weeks I'd advocate "start by" dates, allowing clans to negotiate bringing the matches to an earlier date that might suit them better which would also make room for matches that might be better for both if delayed, say around Xmas or during the summer holiday period. And yes, that potentially allows a clan or two to get the bulk of their games played very quickly, is there any real harm in that?

Back to the "home" maps. Does it really hurt that much if any/ all clans just went with their "best" 8 for every home selection? In the qualifying groups I went with small maps and nukes against the top clans and kept our "best" maps back for opponents we'd have a better chance against, nobody got anything at all out of those games, nobody! Surely much better for everybody if nobody is handicapped against virtually each and every opponent. In a properly competitive league you want the best vs the best to know who is the best, name me one competition in any sport anywhere that is so restrictive as CL5 has been, or some clans insist upon generally for that matter.

CC has a lot of maps and a lot of settings these days, if any given clan favours a map with parachutes, trench, whatever to be their home choices then it should be their right to play it regardless. I'm not saying that we'd beat any of the top clans with our home selection but at least all of our players would be in a position to give it a better shot than with unfamiliar/ disliked maps/ settings.

[khazalid]

excellent points

[Lindax]

excellent points

Which ones?

Lx

[Kaiser_Tottenham]

so where we can go from this?

RGX very interested to join this clan league, and on behalf of this clan, I make my point of view very clear, we aren't afraid to fight the best clans at all, but it would be foolish decision to try to make a structure which give us a chance to fight in the top tier, and make qualifying rounds where top clans could lose 1 or 2 game and force them to play in 2nd tie.. that's called a cup, not a league.

for those clans who fought over the years, and in top positions in ranking, they must take their places in top tier. The others need to prove their worth and fight for promotion..

as for the structure, i think we've to avoid making more than 3 tiers, 2 is good, and 3 at most. Rather than 12 teams in each division and 22 rounds (each clan play others twice) .. I still think one of these could be good:

option 1: ( from current structure )
first division: from current 11 ( taking 6 from 2nd division - one clan to relegate ) = 16 clans
second division: from current 12 ( 6 lost due to promotion to 1st division + taking 8 from 3rd division + taking the 1 or 2 relegated teams from 1st division = 15-16 clans (not sure about the withdrawal of that clan if still keen to play or not)
third division: current 12 ( 8 which promoted to 2nd league and only 2 taken from 2nd division = 6 clans left in this tier, we can add the rest interested clans in this division )

option 2 :
First division : taking 1 clan from current league to relegate, taking the promoted clans from 2nd division, and make this league up to 20-24 clans ( each clan play others for just once ) .. (taking the best ranks outside current division, and surely there is debate whatever if bottom of current league can still make it by current ranks or force the relegation - I think force the relegation is better way to push them doing well in remaining games in current games )
it would be simple, 4 up and 4 down
2nd division, depends on if we make it 20 clans or 24 clans in top tier (4 up and 4 down )
if it's 20 clans, then 2nd division must be splitting it into 2 groups there. ( but it would be slightly difficult to take 4 down from 20 in top league, and also harsh to make 2nd tier with just 3 places while there ie groups and this could be harsh for 2nd teams who fought for title and see them not getting up )
in my opinion this is more flexible structure as it won't be effect by increase in clans in long term, we can make more groups.
but if it's 24 clans in top tier, we can make the 2nd division without groups, but we need to make playoff for promotion in 2nd league, 3 up automatically and 4 fighting in playoff to get the last place.

that's all i can say about this.. but i prefer option 2.

[Qwert]

well i have League structure who could work for CL6,,ofcourse all results achived in Cl5 will decide who go where in new competition scheme.

[Keefie]

If it's decided to have promotion / relegation in future competitions then it will be CL6 that determines the placings, not CL5.

[Qwert]

If it's decided to have promotion / relegation in future competitions then it will be CL6 that determines the placings, not CL5.

why not? Do you forget that CL5 qualifications groups are decided by CL4 final standing.

[Keefie]

If it's decided to have promotion / relegation in future competitions then it will be CL6 that determines the placings, not CL5.

why not? Do you forget that CL5 qualifications groups are decided by CL4 final standing.

and CL6 qualification groups may be decided by CL5 final standing.

[Qwert]

If it's decided to have promotion / relegation in future competitions then it will be CL6 that determines the placings, not CL5.

why not? Do you forget that CL5 qualifications groups are decided by CL4 final standing.

and CL6 qualification groups may be decided by CL5 final standing.

ofcourse ,if format stay same,,

[BoganGod]

Can see you folks have put a lot of thought into discussing these hypotheticals. Well done, and thank you. Would like to point out / draw attention to a possible flaw in logic or procedural fairness. The idea of having different tiers is good and has been done in RL often, can work well.

A premier league of 18clans with 2 15clan divisions below that would likely work well for organising cup ties and other procedural concerns.

Am wondering about the fairness aspect. Gives a lot of advantage to long established clans. Who often are scared to face lower ranked clans in non officially sanctioned events. You won't catch most top 3 clans having the balls to face a new clan like Atlantis for example.

With the clan scene not staying static from year to year, clans come and go. Personal change dramatically look at legion. Clans get re-birthed as different often amalgamated entities. Examples of recent time - Atlantis, ACE, FaD, and the list could go on.

Would it be possible to use the strength of a clan's playing roster as a factor in ranking and seeding. Say clan X has only been around for 3months, has completed and won 1 war, and is in two more wars. Has not faced a top clan(cause they are chicken of the playing roster), would it be possible to look at the average score, average number of games played, team medals, tournament wins etc. Maybe even look at how many clan wars members have won in previous clans? You could then use those figures to compare clan X with Clan Y. Clan Y has completed 3clan wars in three months and lost all 3, is currently in 2more clan wars likely to be losses.

Am I asking to much? Answers in english please, or with a translation from qwertish please

[benga]

I am getting tired of changing the format every year.

It's time to vote for perma next 5 years format:
a) give chance to all
b) promotion/relegation style

Don't think CL ever had b option, so don't see why this needs to be changed.

So if we go with a, there shouldn't be more then 2 stages, we had that this year so move on.

Basically we just need to change some aesthetics:
-adding new settings?
-possibillities to use maps as we wish?
-etc.

lets keep it simple...

[jetsetwilly]

I am getting tired of changing the format every year.

It's time to vote for perma next 5 years format:
a) give chance to all
b) promotion/relegation style

Don't think CL ever had b option, so don't see why this needs to be changed.

So if we go with a, there shouldn't be more then 2 stages, we had that this year so move on.

Basically we just need to change some aesthetics:
-adding new settings?
-possibillities to use maps as we wish?
-etc.

lets keep it simple...

I tend to agree.

[BoganGod]

so willy and benga, that would be a no or yes? Is it possible to look at the strength of the component parts of a clan rather than the clan's history in seeding this thing?


Or blah blah I hates change. Can not bring myself to look at something new. Can not do it.

[benga]

so willy and benga, that would be a no or yes? Is it possible to look at the strength of the component parts of a clan rather than the clan's history in seeding this thing?


Or blah blah I hates change. Can not bring myself to look at something new. Can not do it.

In every group you will have 1 clan from top 5-6 and top 2 advances to prem league.

If you can't be second, you don't deserve to be in prem league.

[Qwert]

I am getting tired of changing the format every year.

It's time to vote for perma next 5 years format:
a) give chance to all
b) promotion/relegation style

Don't think CL ever had b option, so don't see why this needs to be changed.

So if we go with a, there shouldn't be more then 2 stages, we had that this year so move on.

Basically we just need to change some aesthetics:
-adding new settings?
-possibillities to use maps as we wish?
-etc.

lets keep it simple...

well bouth side have positive and negative parts.

For relegation and promotion leagues, big positive its that you can cut duration of league.
Give a chance to all format> they also have some bad part,its how to build QUalification, if you have 40 or more clans to join, and this increase duration of competition. But generaly your right>> give people to vote and will see if they want changes.

bogangod
Am I asking to much? Answers in english please, or with a translation from qwertish please

good,i was think that need to answer, but consider that i dont talk in clean english, then i dont need to answer.

[Donelladan]

I am getting tired of changing the format every year.

It's time to vote for perma next 5 years format:
a) give chance to all
b) promotion/relegation style

Don't think CL ever had b option, so don't see why this needs to be changed.

So if we go with a, there shouldn't be more then 2 stages, we had that this year so move on.

Basically we just need to change some aesthetics:
-adding new settings?
-possibillities to use maps as we wish?
-etc.

lets keep it simple...

Changing from current system to promotion/relegation style allow us to get rid of the 1st stage.
So it goes faster.
I don't see why current system has any advantage compared to promotion relegation system.

[BoganGod]

I am getting tired of changing the format every year.

It's time to vote for perma next 5 years format:
a) give chance to all
b) promotion/relegation style

Don't think CL ever had b option, so don't see why this needs to be changed.

So if we go with a, there shouldn't be more then 2 stages, we had that this year so move on.

Basically we just need to change some aesthetics:
-adding new settings?
-possibillities to use maps as we wish?
-etc.

lets keep it simple...

Changing from current system to promotion/relegation style allow us to get rid of the 1st stage.
So it goes faster.
I don't see why current system has any advantage compared to promotion relegation system.

Current system = benga knows.

New system = new to benga

New to benga = benga sad/scared

[benga]

I am getting tired of changing the format every year.

It's time to vote for perma next 5 years format:
a) give chance to all
b) promotion/relegation style

Don't think CL ever had b option, so don't see why this needs to be changed.

So if we go with a, there shouldn't be more then 2 stages, we had that this year so move on.

Basically we just need to change some aesthetics:
-adding new settings?
-possibillities to use maps as we wish?
-etc.

lets keep it simple...

Changing from current system to promotion/relegation style allow us to get rid of the 1st stage.
So it goes faster.
I don't see why current system has any advantage compared to promotion relegation system.

Current system = benga knows.

New system = new to benga

New to benga = benga sad/scared

I said it's simple, lets vote
and then stick to it for next 5 years

any why would I be scared OSA would be on prem and atl in 2nd league

[Genoke]

any why would I be scared OSA would be on prem and atl in 2nd league

if a league would only have 8 clans....positions would be different!

[BoganGod]

So benga, I can understand and see that your scared. I don't know why. Since you deny that your afraid of change. What exactly would we be voting on?

Care to comment on my suggestions and whether they are a practical option and worth implementing. Would really like some thoughful comments and measured opinion. Know your capable of that. Rather than just bleating voooottte voooooooooooooootttttttttttteeeeeee sameee 4444444444444 555555555555555555555yeaahrrrrrsss

On a lighter note, want to tell everyone how many steps behind Atlantis your clan is?

[benga]

On a lighter note, want to tell everyone how many steps behind Atlantis your clan is?

There is simple solution to that, you wanna a war?

For the rest, I have said what I wanted, beating the dead horse ain't my thing.