Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.01.14] V45 Fixes

[Jippd]

Sorry I'm still confused on some things but thank you for taking the time to help me understand.

I'm confused about the conditional border. Perhaps asking more direct questions will help me understand.

Do I need to hold S&B of the same banner to hit the M?
Can any S or B hit any M?
Do S&B only hit the same banner M?

If I kill all of a players start regions besides there M before they go will they be dead?

I don't think bombarding and assaulting are the same thing. If I'm bombarding that means I don't advance a troop if I win the assault. If I'm assaulting then I need to advance at least 1 troop onto that region. I'm fine with you only changing it if a lot of others object I'm just voicing my thoughts.

Supply ship is a ship region I suppose. Thank you. Again my confusion here is that the regions on your map are ships. For me, I don't think it is clear that your map is of a bunch of ships but I have inferred that every spot is a ship from reading posts in this thread. I also didn't realize what you meant by army but I now see the few spots in the bottom right corner of the map that are the army spots.



The wording for Treasury Movement:
Here is what I understand the two points as saying.
POINT 1:
-There is a region called monarchs commander and it is represented with an M
-This M region is a starting position
-This M region is part of Treasury
-This M region can assault its own Treasury regions by following the 1 way arrow.
-The 4 treasury regions are +1,+3,+4,+5
POINT 2:
-Monarchs Commander (M) can assault from any treasury region to the same ship (B & S), SS, or LB of the same banner.
Am I misunderstanding any of the facts in the two points?
Point 1 says Monarch's Commander (M) can one way assault the T spaces of the same banner.
Point 2 says Monarch's commander can assault from any treasury region to the same ship.

Consider using this verbage on the classic map.

Monarch's Commander is Astana, T1 is Moscow, T2 is Stockholm.

Pretend there is the same sort of one way attack path for these three regions. T1 and T2 can one way attack the australia regions(used to represent the SS/LB/B&S of each banner)

Would you say:
Point 1: Astana can one way attack Moscow then Stockholm for an autodeploy of +1,+2
Point 2: Astana can assault from Moscow or Stockholm any region of Australia?

In my mind you wouldn't It isn't Astana that is doing the attacking it is T1 or T2(Moscow/Stockholm) that are doing the attacking not Astana.

The problem for me here is you are using Monarch's commander both as a territory name in this game (M) and as a "role". For you the Monarch Commander is in charge of M and all of the T's (as I understand it). I think using the same word to describe two different things on a map can be confusing.



What is the difference between the command ship and commanders ship?
Can you please provide me with an example of each?
Here is how I understood it.
1. From the picture in the legend of an S&B in a hexagon (yellow and red backgrounds) in the "Command Ships:" section of the legend I assumed those are command ships.
2. Under the second bullet in "Treasury Movement:" section it states "to any commander's ship(B&S)". This parenthesis implied to me that B&S comprise a commander's ship. Bob confirms this attack path is correct too but I have not tried it in game.

The earn makes sense to me now. I was viewing it as a column header.


I don't have the time to check many forums nowadays besides the clan forum as I'm not as active as I used to be. That is why I have not been to this thread before. A friend sent me an invite to this game and I'm just trying to figure out how the map works. I figured asking for clarification would hopefully allow me to figure out what goes on in the map.

For you the map has been in development for years but as it is Beta most people won't see it. Think about video games in the real world. Developers develop for a long time and nobody besides those on the team know about it. Then it goes to beta and a bigger number of people know about it. Then it goes live and even more people know about it. I would love to devote time to helping develop maps in the pre beta stage but I don't have enough time to give. If I can catch a map in beta and put my .02 in I will.

That does not mean I expect you to make changes just because I have an issue. As I said I'm fine with you not changing anything. I also agree with your point that it should only be addressed if others have issues. I'm merely voicing my thoughts.

Mainly I'm looking for clarification on attack routes and rules so I know how to win the game I am in now on it.

Thank you for your time.

[puppydog85]

Just my 2 cents, but I think London LB should have an open top beacon. At the very least to let the game flow a little better, at best to help noobs not advance huge stacks to it.

[iancanton]

The monarch commander is a treasury region right? So If I am playing a quads game and eliminate a colors two regions besides their monarch commander and their bow/stern then they would die? IE if they have Don Diego Madrano and I kill their Diana and SS before they go then they would die because they would meet the losing condition?

no, treasury can still be alive and if you don't hold either bow or stern of a command ship and any other non-treasury region, you should(?) be kicked out.

if that player has not yet played, then why is he still alive, having lost his two other ships? to avoid elimination, someone must hold any non-treasury region and either a bow or stern. is the M+1 square therefore a non-treasury region?

ian.

[cairnswk]

The monarch commander is a treasury region right? So If I am playing a quads game and eliminate a colors two regions besides their monarch commander and their bow/stern then they would die? IE if they have Don Diego Madrano and I kill their Diana and SS before they go then they would die because they would meet the losing condition?

no, treasury can still be alive and if you don't hold either bow or stern of a command ship and any other non-treasury region, you should(?) be kicked out.

if that player has not yet played, then why is he still alive, having lost his two other ships? to avoid elimination, someone must hold any non-treasury region and either a bow or stern. is the M+1 square therefore a non-treasury region?

ian.

at this point, the player is probably still alive because the xml is not working properly.
we are awaiting rds's uploading of corrected xml.
M+1 is not a non-treasury region, since the map clearly states that "Monarch's Commander "M" is a starting region and part of Treasury"

[Jippd]

I'm not familiar with the normal time or what it takes to change XML but how long does that normally take? Once it is uploaded if a player only holds an M region will they be eliminated in ongoing games or will it only affect newly created games?

I also see from my game that I am in that any S or B can attack any M even if you don't hold both. Hoping you can shed some light from my previous post about what the XML will be when uploaded correctly and what the attack paths are supposed to be.

Just trying to figure out the map Thanks for the help.

[Gilligan]

Cairns,

It appears as though there's some sort of XML cacheing error (Similar to the one we had with Labyrinth) so we may have to wait until all games are complete before we can correctly update this XML. I just tested a game with rds and I was able to attack territories that were not listed as borders in the current XML (ergo, the cacheing error if I understand correctly).

[cairnswk]

Cairns,

It appears as though there's some sort of XML cacheing error (Similar to the one we had with Labyrinth) so we may have to wait until all games are complete before we can correctly update this XML. I just tested a game with rds and I was able to attack territories that were not listed as borders in the current XML (ergo, the cacheing error if I understand correctly).

I am not aware of the errors with Labyrinth Gilligan.

I cleared my cache and it appears as though the commander to monarch section was working correctly from game i have just had my turn in, but on closer inspection it is not.
the condition for holding both bow and stern to enable assault on the monarch is not stipulated....i will correct that now.

Can you advise of your border issues, please.

[Jippd]

I am in a game where a player only holds an M region and they are still alive. This is not supposed to be happening right? Any info regarding my last post with some clarification questions?

[isaiah40]

I am in a game where a player only holds an M region and they are still alive. This is not supposed to be happening right? Any info regarding my last post with some clarification questions?

No this isn't supposed to happen. The map has been closed until all active games are finished. Right now there are 56 active games, so it may be awhile before this gets reopened. All games waiting players will be deleted.

[Jippd]

And any S or B can currently attack any M even if you don't hold both S & B right?

[cairnswk]

In Game 13124214 the losing condition is now working.
My opponent still had monarch and treasury in play, but i wiped him from the lasts Command ship he held plus other non-treasury positions, and he was eliminated.

Jippd, i will get to your questions shortly, now that i know this part at least is working.

[cairnswk]

And any S or B can currently attack any M right?

Yes, but it isn't supposed to work like that...another xml error which i have just corrected in new xml.
The attack on your M position should only happen from your command ship if you hold both bow both and stern, otherwise it should not happen....
but at present that appears not to be the case.

[cairnswk]

...

Okay so is each space on this map a ship then? IE El Sanson is ship? I think that is what confused me I didn't know the spaces are all ships.
The thing about command ships makes sense now. Thanks.

Well only it is only a ship if it is not land-based.

[cairnswk]

...
Do I need to hold S&B of the same banner to hit the M?

Under correct xml conditions (which i hope will be shortly) yes, both bow and stern of the same command ship.
If you have only monarch positions, plus bow and stern of one commend ship left, and your opponent comes and wipes your only bow and stern off, providing you have no other non-treasury position, you should be eliminated.

Can any S or B hit any M?

With the updated xml as of today, no. it can only hit its own M postion

Do S&B only hit the same banner M?

That should be the case

If I kill all of a players start regions besides there M before they go will they be dead?

theoretically you shouldn't be able to do this in one go even in 1V1

I don't think bombarding and assaulting are the same thing. If I'm bombarding that means I don't advance a troop if I win the assault.

correct, if you win the bombardment you don't advance the troops, you merely wipe that players troops from the board.
Bombardment only occurs two spaces distance.
Theoretically, you can bombard the player bordering your position, but not wipe him out.

If I'm assaulting then I need to advance at least 1 troop onto that region. I'm fine with you only changing it if a lot of others object I'm just voicing my thoughts.

OK, the range of 2 is kind of standard language for the bombardment...learned from a number of maps including Waterloo that have that facility.
If you assault a bordering region and wipe their troops, then the game engine will automatically advance 1 troop forward and give you the option of fortification.

Supply ship is a ship region I suppose. Thank you. Again my confusion here is that the regions on your map are ships. For me, I don't think it is clear that your map is of a bunch of ships but I have inferred that every spot is a ship from reading posts in this thread. I also didn't realize what you meant by army but I now see the few spots in the bottom right corner of the map that are the army spots.

Supply "ship" to me indicates it is a ship at least, and since this is the Spanish Armada, perhaps a little research on your part might not go astray about what this battle is about...wiki is very easy.

The wording for Treasury Movement:
Here is what I understand the two points as saying.
POINT 1:
-There is a region called monarchs commander and it is represented with an M
-This M region is a starting position
-This M region is part of Treasury
-This M region can assault its own Treasury regions by following the 1 way arrow.
-The 4 treasury regions are +1,+3,+4,+5

Correct.

POINT 2:
-Monarchs Commander (M) can assault from any treasury region to the same ship (B & S), SS, or LB of the same banner.
Am I misunderstanding any of the facts in the two points?
Point 1 says Monarch's Commander (M) can one way assault the T spaces of the same banner.
Point 2 says Monarch's commander can assault from any treasury region to the same ship.

Each SS (supply ship for Spanish), LB (Land base for English) or B&S of commander ship can be assaulted from any T position but not from M position.

...The problem for me here is you are using Monarch's commander both as a territory name in this game (M) and as a "role". For you the Monarch Commander is in charge of M and all of the T's (as I understand it). I think using the same word to describe two different things on a map can be confusing.

Mmmm. food for thought!

What is the difference between the command ship and commanders ship?
Can you please provide me with an example of each?
Here is how I understood it.
1. From the picture in the legend of an S&B in a hexagon (yellow and red backgrounds) in the "Command Ships:" section of the legend I assumed those are command ships.
2. Under the second bullet in "Treasury Movement:" section it states "to any commander's ship(B&S)". This parenthesis implied to me that B&S comprise a commander's ship. Bob confirms this attack path is correct too but I have not tried it in game.

command ship and commander's ship are one in the same.
i.e. B&S of Triumph (which are two separate regions) comprise the command ship.
The parenthesis is correct.

I don't have the time to check many forums nowadays besides the clan forum as I'm not as active as I used to be. That is why I have not been to this thread before. A friend sent me an invite to this game and I'm just trying to figure out how the map works. I figured asking for clarification would hopefully allow me to figure out what goes on in the map.

For you the map has been in development for years but as it is Beta most people won't see it. Think about video games in the real world. Developers develop for a long time and nobody besides those on the team know about it. Then it goes to beta and a bigger number of people know about it. Then it goes live and even more people know about it. I would love to devote time to helping develop maps in the pre beta stage but I don't have enough time to give. If I can catch a map in beta and put my .02 in I will.

That does not mean I expect you to make changes just because I have an issue. As I said I'm fine with you not changing anything. I also agree with your point that it should only be addressed if others have issues. I'm merely voicing my thoughts.

Mainly I'm looking for clarification on attack routes and rules so I know how to win the game I am in now on it.

Jippd, I have to say your activities are your own issue.
The foundry is established in mind that players are able to actively input during development (as opposed to video game development).
I would consider it the responsibility of players to at least attend new maps while this stage occurs, since the development is for their own benefit.
Thanks for your questions
I am sorry for the delay in answering but wanted to see at least what the nmew xml was doing.

[cairnswk]

I'm not familiar with the normal time or what it takes to change XML but how long does that normally take? Once it is uploaded if a player only holds an M region will they be eliminated in ongoing games or will it only affect newly created games?

I also see from my game that I am in that any S or B can attack any M even if you don't hold both. Hoping you can shed some light from my previous post about what the XML will be when uploaded correctly and what the attack paths are supposed to be.

Just trying to figure out the map Thanks for the help.

Normally it is done quite quickly.
If a player only holds an M region, they will be eliminated in any games going forward, or they should be.
I believe the B&S condition to M has been answered.

[cairnswk]

Attached is version 7 of the corrected xml.
I am awaiting a repsonse from Gilligan as to his issues for borders, after which i will make corrections and post the new xml.

[Jippd]

In Game 13124214 the losing condition is now working.
My opponent still had monarch and treasury in play, but i wiped him from the lasts Command ship he held plus other non-treasury positions, and he was eliminated.

Jippd, i will get to your questions shortly, now that i know this part at least is working.

For me the losing condition does not work. In my quads game Game 13108968 pink holds only an M region and he is still in the game.

[cairnswk]

In Game 13124214 the losing condition is now working.
My opponent still had monarch and treasury in play, but i wiped him from the lasts Command ship he held plus other non-treasury positions, and he was eliminated.

Jippd, i will get to your questions shortly, now that i know this part at least is working.

For me the losing condition does not work. In my quads game Game 13108968 pink holds only an M region and he is still in the game.

the eliminbation will possibly be activated on someone's next turn or pinks next turn....keep watch.

[Gilligan]

It seems to be working now. You can no longer take any monarch from a bow/stern, and the conditional border IS working. Perhaps it just takes some time for the XML to be properly matched to the map within the game engine.

Also, I just eliminated Isaiah (accidentally ) in Game 13101598

[isaiah40]

It seems to be working now. You can no longer take any monarch from a bow/stern, and the conditional border IS working. Perhaps it just takes some time for the XML to be properly matched to the map within the game engine.

Also, I just eliminated Isaiah (accidentally ) in Game 13101598

Well that was a fine way gilly!! LOL! At least we know that part is working now.

[cairnswk]

post deleted

[cairnswk]

Version 40 for upload with V7 XML as attached
There are adjustments to names surrounding the previously known as San Martin > now São Martinho (Portuguese), Zabra Julia > now Zabra Júlia
and these

There is a typo.
It's not "Neustra Señora del Barrio", but "Nuestra Señora del Barrio".
Also, "Senora" should be "Señora", with "ñ", not "n".

Also, "Sãn Mateo". It should be either "San Mateo" (Spanish) or "São Mateo" (Portuguese, if I'm not mistaken).

Click image to enlarge.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... g~original

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... g~original

[cairnswk]

Just my 2 cents, but I think London LB should have an open top beacon. At the very least to let the game flow a little better, at best to help noobs not advance huge stacks to it.

puppydog85, how do you mean "at best to help noobs not advance huge stacks to it"
the london beacon is the end of the line of 3 for that section bonus from Hastings.
are you saying the london beacon should be open top so that you don't get stuck with more than 1 troops on it and have opportunity to fort off it, as long as it is a one-way to London LB.
if that is the case, then it makes sense.

[Jippd]

Game 13108968

pink still only holds an M and no other regions. They started their turn and they are still alive.

Looks like this elimination condition is not fixed in XML yet even though it happened in the other game with isaiah dying.

If you know how or when this will be fixed please update me here.

[cairnswk]

Game 13108968

pink still only holds an M and no other regions. They started their turn and they are still alive.

Looks like this elimination condition is not fixed in XML yet even though it happened in the other game with isaiah dying.

If you know how or when this will be fixed please update me here.

Mmmm, mystery!
the log says he received 3 troops for 1 region and deployed them on ?

That is why until maps are proven totally OK with xml coding, i don't think fog games should be allowed.
I can't see a darned thing on your game except for that log.

Previously we have had a cache issue with some maps and the cache in your browser has to be cleared to get it to work properly.
but for whatever reason, this appears to be a new thing and i don't know what the fix is...need rds and others to tell that.