CCup 4 format discussion (ver 5, p. 28)

[benga]

I do not think anyone should be given two rounds of byes. Especially 8 clans. That's a lot of clans that automatically make it to the top 16, IMO.

according to F400 you would be no.8

That in itself should tell you we aren't speaking out in our interests, but for a better clan area and event as a whole.

The most clans here, at least so far, have been crying to change, so they don't get either severely butchered or playing boring games.

[hyposquasher]

For what it's worth, I think the tried and true CC format has treated us well.

[Qwert]

I don't think any of those proposals could be done on a challonge bracket site, without Dako doing his own.

Also, I just prefer simple. What's wrong w what has been done in the past? CL has changed every year. CC has been running smoothly and change very little. (because it works).

well sometime you need to change system so that every clan have benefit. In previous cups, clans from 17 to 32 position have little chance , and all above have at least big chance for one medal award. Maybe you dont care for all these clans, because in old system you will have easy job for medal against 25 ranked team, but then what motive will have these clans to play in CC?
Give equal chance to all, then you will get bigger and stronger competition, these its what we all want to happen,right? Think about that.

[IcePack]

I don't think any of those proposals could be done on a challonge bracket site, without Dako doing his own.

Also, I just prefer simple. What's wrong w what has been done in the past? CL has changed every year. CC has been running smoothly and change very little. (because it works).

well sometime you need to change system so that every clan have benefit. In previous cups, clans from 17 to 32 position have little chance , and all above have at least big chance for one medal award. Maybe you dont care for all these clans, because in old system you will have easy job for medal against 25 ranked team, but then what motive will have these clans to play in CC?
Give equal chance to all, then you will get bigger and stronger competition, these its what we all want to happen,right? Think about that.

Not at all. I used to be in KOA, ranked 20th back then. When I first got into clans CC2 was in sign ups and I desperately wanted to be apart of it. Yes it was difficult but I thought the competition was fair, exciting, and fun. We couldn't join that year and finally signed up for CC3 1 year later. We were around 18th? And got knocked out first round. Guess what? It was still fun to be apart of the event.

There's nothing wrong w braket tournaments, many sports use them. And 1st plays last, 2nd plays second last, etc. it encourages you to work hard and move up the ladder fr next year of you don't want to be 32nd and playing #1 - do something about it during the off season!

All these random draws and make it fair and easy for clans to get thru to the next round do nothing to encourage competition, it encourages mediocrity and complacency because why work harder to go higher for next year, if you can just hope to get lucky on some stupid random draw and go further in the competition than you really should have.

Sorry I don't buy it. Lifes not fair, if you want something work for it. Earn it. The old system worked fine and was simple, everyone could participate or choose not to - or run another event if they don't like how the cup was run. That's why there are other events and leagues w random draws etc. this was always designed and suppose to be a simple braket tournament.

IcePack

[benga]

I don't think any of those proposals could be done on a challonge bracket site, without Dako doing his own.

Also, I just prefer simple. What's wrong w what has been done in the past? CL has changed every year. CC has been running smoothly and change very little. (because it works).

well sometime you need to change system so that every clan have benefit. In previous cups, clans from 17 to 32 position have little chance , and all above have at least big chance for one medal award. Maybe you dont care for all these clans, because in old system you will have easy job for medal against 25 ranked team, but then what motive will have these clans to play in CC?
Give equal chance to all, then you will get bigger and stronger competition, these its what we all want to happen,right? Think about that.

Not at all. I used to be in KOA, ranked 20th back then. When I first got into clans CC2 was in sign ups and I desperately wanted to be apart of it. Yes it was difficult but I thought the competition was fair, exciting, and fun. We couldn't join that year and finally signed up for CC3 1 year later. We were around 18th? And got knocked out first round. Guess what? It was still fun to be apart of the event.

There's nothing wrong w braket tournaments, many sports use them. And 1st plays last, 2nd plays second last, etc. it encourages you to work hard and move up the ladder fr next year of you don't want to be 32nd and playing #1 - do something about it during the off season!

All these random draws and make it fair and easy for clans to get thru to the next round do nothing to encourage competition, it encourages mediocrity and complacency because why work harder to go higher for next year, if you can just hope to get lucky on some stupid random draw and go further in the competition than you really should have.

Sorry I don't buy it. Lifes not fair, if you want something work for it. Earn it. The old stem worked fine and was simple, everyone could participate or choose not to - or run another event if they don't like how the cup was run. That's why there are other events and leagues w random draws etc. this was always designed and suppose to be a simple braket tournament.

IcePack

wow, well put

[josko.ri]

There's nothing wrong w braket tournaments, many sports use them. And 1st plays last, 2nd plays second last, etc. it encourages you to work hard and move up the ladder fr next year of you don't want to be 32nd and playing #1 - do something about it during the off season!

My primary suggestion was format, semi-random draws was just secondary suggestion/option.
Reading your arguments, I found only this argument to be against proposed format (other arguments are more against random draw).

So to counter this argument... The proposed format still values all what you have earned during off season. it is still 17v32 in R1, and 1v[16v(17v32)] in R3. So the difference between "let it like it was" and "consider the proposal" is not about that ranking will not be used at all, all wil be randomized, past achievements wil not be valued. It is about giving much more equal playing field (and therefore much more interesting matches) for lower ranked clans. Higher ranked clans already have equal playing field, for them it happens in later rounds when they meet each other. But do the lowest ranked clans have equal playing field? With this format I think no. They are regularly losing sometimes with 30+vs10-. Those wars are not interesting to anyone, nor to winners nor to losers. Your KOA example was some equal playing field, if you were 18th, you faced 14th and it was for sure interesting match. If you consider number of clans that signed up for CL3/CL4/CL5 and compare it with number of clans signed to CC2/CC3 you will see that evrey time League had much more competitors. Go into analysis deeper and you will see which clans signed for CL but did not sign for CC. Those are clans from bottom of ranking. All top ranking clans participated in CC2/CC3. And if you try to find a reason for that, maybe it was wish to not be hard kicked in round 1 in non-enjoyable match for anyone. The main advantage of the proposed format is giving more equal playing field to wider range of clans, therefore making it more interesting for lower clans to sign in and have some equal field fight instead of being hard kicked in Round 1.

[Qwert]

I don't think any of those proposals could be done on a challonge bracket site, without Dako doing his own.

Also, I just prefer simple. What's wrong w what has been done in the past? CL has changed every year. CC has been running smoothly and change very little. (because it works).

well sometime you need to change system so that every clan have benefit. In previous cups, clans from 17 to 32 position have little chance , and all above have at least big chance for one medal award. Maybe you dont care for all these clans, because in old system you will have easy job for medal against 25 ranked team, but then what motive will have these clans to play in CC?
Give equal chance to all, then you will get bigger and stronger competition, these its what we all want to happen,right? Think about that.

Not at all. I used to be in KOA, ranked 20th back then. When I first got into clans CC2 was in sign ups and I desperately wanted to be apart of it. Yes it was difficult but I thought the competition was fair, exciting, and fun. We couldn't join that year and finally signed up for CC3 1 year later. We were around 18th? And got knocked out first round. Guess what? It was still fun to be apart of the event.

There's nothing wrong w braket tournaments, many sports use them. And 1st plays last, 2nd plays second last, etc. it encourages you to work hard and move up the ladder fr next year of you don't want to be 32nd and playing #1 - do something about it during the off season!

All these random draws and make it fair and easy for clans to get thru to the next round do nothing to encourage competition, it encourages mediocrity and complacency because why work harder to go higher for next year, if you can just hope to get lucky on some stupid random draw and go further in the competition than you really should have.

Sorry I don't buy it. Lifes not fair, if you want something work for it. Earn it. The old system worked fine and was simple, everyone could participate or choose not to - or run another event if they don't like how the cup was run. That's why there are other events and leagues w random draws etc. this was always designed and suppose to be a simple braket tournament.

IcePack

well you wrong, simple to say, we are not change to be easy for clans ,but to give low ranked clans, in start opponent with equal strength. The thing what will be change its that High ranked clans will get 1 medal less then in previous cups, ofcourse if you realy thing that for your clan are very importan that in round 1 get easy medal defeating some clan with 35-6, ok you will vote against changes, but maybe you will change your mind and say " well ok, lets give first round to low ranked clans so that they play 21-20 one excitement match, and let best get medal instead me" .
Ofcourse if you belive that clans from top 8 or 16 need to take all medals from round 1 to Finale, then you will be against,,but for me ,i think that for top 8 clans take medal in QuarterFinal or Semifinal have much higer value,then medal earned in First round against top bottom clans, but maybe im wrong?

[IcePack]

There's nothing wrong w braket tournaments, many sports use them. And 1st plays last, 2nd plays second last, etc. it encourages you to work hard and move up the ladder fr next year of you don't want to be 32nd and playing #1 - do something about it during the off season!

My primary suggestion was format, semi-random draws was just secondary suggestion/option.
Reading your arguments, I found only this argument to be against proposed format (other arguments are more against random draw).

So to counter this argument... The proposed format still values all what you have earned during off season. it is still 17v32 in R1, and 1v[16v(17v32)] in R3. So the difference between "let it like it was" and "consider the proposal" is not about that ranking will not be used at all, all wil be randomized, past achievements wil not be valued. It is about giving much more equal playing field (and therefore much more interesting matches) for lower ranked clans. Higher ranked clans already have equal playing field, for them it happens in later rounds when they meet each other. But do the lowest ranked clans have equal playing field? With this format I think no. They are regularly losing sometimes with 30+vs10-. Those wars are not interesting to anyone, nor to winners nor to losers. Your KOA example was some equal playing field, if you were 18th, you faced 14th and it was for sure interesting match. If you consider number of clans that signed up for CL3/CL4/CL5 and compare it with number of clans signed to CC2/CC3 you will see that evrey time League had much more competitors. Go into analysis deeper and you will see which clans signed for CL but did not sign for CC. Those are clans from bottom of ranking. All top ranking clans participated in CC2/CC3. And if you try to find a reason for that, maybe it was wish to not be hard kicked in round 1 in non-enjoyable match for anyone. The main advantage of the proposed format is giving more equal playing field to wider range of clans, therefore making it more interesting for lower clans to sign in and have some equal field fight instead of being hard kicked in Round 1.

What's wrong with having less clans compete in a bracket tournament? Isn't that why CL exists to give more opportunity in a different way to all clans? Why does each format have to be as inclusive as possible? Lower clans can skip CC if they worry about being hard kicked in round 1 and practise in newcomer cup or CL. That's why those formats exist!

A bracket tournament is there to determine a winner. Again I emphasize if you want better chances or seeding, improve in offseason. Yes your format proposal is better than random draw but if 32 beats 17 by luck and gets into the area where it faces top clans now (1-16), they'll get hard kicked at that point. I'd much rather see it the way now, nobody wants to see 32 vs 1 in round 3 or 4 (wherever they'd meet in yours).

What's wrong w what's in place now? We still see interesting matches, some clans take a run at others. We still have upsets and look at OSA. CC3 they were seeded 24th! They improved and advanced - deservingly so! They beat the odds. They even made a run at KORT.

I just don't understand why try to reinvent the wheel. There are other formats to fit in other preferences, while this again - was made as a simple bracket tournament for any clan to participate in. Maybe - if there is enough demand - someone can go make the Fairness Cup where all clans are welcome to a bracket tournament where all seeds are random, or top clans get a bye and the lower half duke it out.

But this isn't the fairness cup. This is Conquer Cup. Let's keep it that way.

IcePack

[IcePack]

I don't think any of those proposals could be done on a challonge bracket site, without Dako doing his own.

Also, I just prefer simple. What's wrong w what has been done in the past? CL has changed every year. CC has been running smoothly and change very little. (because it works).

well sometime you need to change system so that every clan have benefit. In previous cups, clans from 17 to 32 position have little chance , and all above have at least big chance for one medal award. Maybe you dont care for all these clans, because in old system you will have easy job for medal against 25 ranked team, but then what motive will have these clans to play in CC?
Give equal chance to all, then you will get bigger and stronger competition, these its what we all want to happen,right? Think about that.

Not at all. I used to be in KOA, ranked 20th back then. When I first got into clans CC2 was in sign ups and I desperately wanted to be apart of it. Yes it was difficult but I thought the competition was fair, exciting, and fun. We couldn't join that year and finally signed up for CC3 1 year later. We were around 18th? And got knocked out first round. Guess what? It was still fun to be apart of the event.

There's nothing wrong w braket tournaments, many sports use them. And 1st plays last, 2nd plays second last, etc. it encourages you to work hard and move up the ladder fr next year of you don't want to be 32nd and playing #1 - do something about it during the off season!

All these random draws and make it fair and easy for clans to get thru to the next round do nothing to encourage competition, it encourages mediocrity and complacency because why work harder to go higher for next year, if you can just hope to get lucky on some stupid random draw and go further in the competition than you really should have.

Sorry I don't buy it. Lifes not fair, if you want something work for it. Earn it. The old system worked fine and was simple, everyone could participate or choose not to - or run another event if they don't like how the cup was run. That's why there are other events and leagues w random draws etc. this was always designed and suppose to be a simple braket tournament.

IcePack

well you wrong, simple to say, we are not change to be easy for clans ,but to give low ranked clans, in start opponent with equal strength. The thing what will be change its that High ranked clans will get 1 medal less then in previous cups, ofcourse if you realy thing that for your clan are very importan that in round 1 get easy medal defeating some clan with 35-6, ok you will vote against changes, but maybe you will change your mind and say " well ok, lets give first round to low ranked clans so that they play 21-20 one excitement match, and let best get medal instead me" .
Ofcourse if you belive that clans from top 8 or 16 need to take all medals from round 1 to Finale, then you will be against,,but for me ,i think that for top 8 clans take medal in QuarterFinal or Semifinal have much higer value,then medal earned in First round against top bottom clans, but maybe im wrong?

Has nothing to do with getting an easy medal. If they feel they are SO out matched and have NO shot at a win, they don't need to participate.

If you want everyone to be happy and hold hands and sing kum by ya together around a camp fire in a circle drinking soy lattes and tea with some marshmellows, go start a Fairness Cup competition.

[josko.ri]

There's nothing wrong w braket tournaments, many sports use them. And 1st plays last, 2nd plays second last, etc. it encourages you to work hard and move up the ladder fr next year of you don't want to be 32nd and playing #1 - do something about it during the off season!

My primary suggestion was format, semi-random draws was just secondary suggestion/option.
Reading your arguments, I found only this argument to be against proposed format (other arguments are more against random draw).

So to counter this argument... The proposed format still values all what you have earned during off season. it is still 17v32 in R1, and 1v[16v(17v32)] in R3. So the difference between "let it like it was" and "consider the proposal" is not about that ranking will not be used at all, all wil be randomized, past achievements wil not be valued. It is about giving much more equal playing field (and therefore much more interesting matches) for lower ranked clans. Higher ranked clans already have equal playing field, for them it happens in later rounds when they meet each other. But do the lowest ranked clans have equal playing field? With this format I think no. They are regularly losing sometimes with 30+vs10-. Those wars are not interesting to anyone, nor to winners nor to losers. Your KOA example was some equal playing field, if you were 18th, you faced 14th and it was for sure interesting match. If you consider number of clans that signed up for CL3/CL4/CL5 and compare it with number of clans signed to CC2/CC3 you will see that evrey time League had much more competitors. Go into analysis deeper and you will see which clans signed for CL but did not sign for CC. Those are clans from bottom of ranking. All top ranking clans participated in CC2/CC3. And if you try to find a reason for that, maybe it was wish to not be hard kicked in round 1 in non-enjoyable match for anyone. The main advantage of the proposed format is giving more equal playing field to wider range of clans, therefore making it more interesting for lower clans to sign in and have some equal field fight instead of being hard kicked in Round 1.

What's wrong with having less clans compete in a bracket tournament? Isn't that why CL exists to give more opportunity in a different way to all clans? Why does each format have to be as inclusive as possible? Lower clans can skip CC if they worry about being hard kicked in round 1 and practise in newcomer cup or CL. That's why those formats exist!

A bracket tournament is there to determine a winner. Again I emphasize if you want better chances or seeding, improve in offseason. Yes your format proposal is better than random draw but if 32 beats 17 by luck and gets into the area where it faces top clans now (1-16), they'll get hard kicked at that point. I'd much rather see it the way now, nobody wants to see 32 vs 1 in round 3 or 4 (wherever they'd meet in yours).

What's wrong w what's in place now? We still see interesting matches, some clans take a run at others. We still have upsets and look at OSA. CC3 they were seeded 24th! They improved and advanced - deservingly so! They beat the odds. They even made a run at KORT.

I just don't understand why try to reinvent the wheel. There are other formats to fit in other preferences, while this again - was made as a simple bracket tournament for any clan to participate in. Maybe - if there is enough demand - someone can go make the Fairness Cup where all clans are welcome to a bracket tournament where all seeds are random, or top clans get a bye and the lower half duke it out.

But this isn't the fairness cup. This is Conquer Cup. Let's keep it that way.

IcePack

I already explained why and what is wrong (answers to your questions), see points 1-6 in my proposal post, so I do not plan to repeat it. We may disagree (you think it is good #1 spanks #32 hard in R1, I think it is not good) and that is something many will agree or disagree. Voting is the best way to see what majority clans wish, you are obviously against, I see some said idea is interesting, so why not vote to see what majority thinks?

[IcePack]

Coming soon:

The CC Fairness Cup 1 [FC1]

Sign up today

[josko.ri]

Coming soon:

The CC Fairness Cup 1 [FC1]

Sign up today

Ok, it is good to have your own opinion about others' ideas.
Coming soon:
"What works Cannot be improved Cup 1" [WCC1] by Ice Pack

Do we wish to have what majority of clans wish, or what loud individuals wish?
If we want to see what majority thinks, let them vote if they wish FC1 of WCC1.

[Dako]

I am composing a book of next CCup rules. Will finish in 30 mins or so I think (I hope). Stay tuned, I have poured myself a second glass of shiraz already 8).

[Qwert]

Coming soon:

The CC Fairness Cup 1 [FC1]

Sign up today

hmm,we give some suggestions in normal conversation,and you mocking with us. these its not nice .

[IcePack]

Coming soon:

The CC Fairness Cup 1 [FC1]

Sign up today

Ok, it is good to have your own opinion about others' ideas.
Coming soon:
"What works Cannot be improved Cup 1" [WCC1] by Ice Pack

Do we wish to have what majority of clans wish, or what loud individuals wish?
If we want to see what majority thinks, let them vote if they wish FC1 of WCC1.

Sounds good where do I sign up? And yes, if it comes to a vote I'm happy to participate. But this isn't about being the loudest. It's something simple, it works, and people obviously enjoy it or we wouldn't be here talking about the 4th installment

[Foxglove]

Coming soon:

The CC Fairness Cup 1 [FC1]

Sign up today

Ok, it is good to have your own opinion about others' ideas.
Coming soon:
"What works Cannot be improved Cup 1" [WCC1] by Ice Pack

Do we wish to have what majority of clans wish, or what loud individuals wish?
If we want to see what majority thinks, let them vote if they wish FC1 of WCC1.

Sounds good where do I sign up? And yes, if it comes to a vote I'm happy to participate. But this isn't about being the loudest. It's something simple, it works, and people obviously enjoy it or we wouldn't be here talking about the 4th installment

Just because an event is popular and people already like it a lot doesn't mean that it can't be improved or changed.

[IcePack]

Coming soon:

The CC Fairness Cup 1 [FC1]

Sign up today

Ok, it is good to have your own opinion about others' ideas.
Coming soon:
"What works Cannot be improved Cup 1" [WCC1] by Ice Pack

Do we wish to have what majority of clans wish, or what loud individuals wish?
If we want to see what majority thinks, let them vote if they wish FC1 of WCC1.

Sounds good where do I sign up? And yes, if it comes to a vote I'm happy to participate. But this isn't about being the loudest. It's something simple, it works, and people obviously enjoy it or we wouldn't be here talking about the 4th installment

Just because an event is popular and people already like it a lot doesn't mean that it can't be improved or changed.

I never said it couldn't be. In fact I did say there have been minor changes along the way.
However, I don't see what's being suggested as an improvement, and therefore speaking out against it. It's natural to be protective of something you like and enjoy. As is.

IcePack

[josko.ri]

Coming soon:

The CC Fairness Cup 1 [FC1]

Sign up today

Ok, it is good to have your own opinion about others' ideas.
Coming soon:
"What works Cannot be improved Cup 1" [WCC1] by Ice Pack

Do we wish to have what majority of clans wish, or what loud individuals wish?
If we want to see what majority thinks, let them vote if they wish FC1 of WCC1.

Sounds good where do I sign up? And yes, if it comes to a vote I'm happy to participate. But this isn't about being the loudest. It's something simple, it works, and people obviously enjoy it or we wouldn't be here talking about the 4th installment

Popularity of the competition is going down. I am judging by number of pots/views both in CC threads and in final matches. Compare number of replies/views at CC1/CC2/CC3 final matches (use quarterfinals as merit, and the main competition topic) and you will see it is going down every year. Having 4th time the same will decrease it more. Clan world is growing up (by number of clans/players) and threads of clan wars and Cups in general are going down. Obviously something is not logical?
If you will give counter argument that number of clans participating are increasing, I will not buy that argument. Every year there are more clans around, so it is logical that number of participants are increasing just because of that, and not because of increased popularity.

[Dako]

Draft of CCup4 rules, ver. 2



Seeding and brackets

Clan ranks will be taken from F400 as usual. But the format of the bracket is still undecided. We have two brackets styles that I like

1. Current brackets
2. New system with random draws for lower ranked clans

Whatever brackets we chose they will be predefined for the entire challenge and no reseeding will be applied for each round. We will start from play-ins, then round of 32 and onwards to the finals. Winner advances, losers are out.
Top clans will start in round of 16, I just haven't decided how many of them.


Clan Eligibility

Clan should have at least 15 members to sign of for the CCup. That clan should also they meet one of the following criteria:

• Either be a member of CD&F group
• Or get my personal approval

Player Eligibility

There will be no cup-tied rule in this edition of the cup. Any player can play for any clan. However if I will see any shenanigans I will penalize offending clan and force them to exclude new members from playing CCup games.
Note: all requests in CCup3 concerning cup-tied players were met with classy sportsmanship and those players were allowed to play. That means there is no need to be a rule about that and I doubt anyone will abuse their clan's name by bringing 5 new top-notch players into the next round because they fear their opposition. Where will you find so many great players willing to switch a clan?


Allowed Settings

• Initial Troops - only Automatic
• Play Order - only Sequential
• Spoils - any
• Reinforcements - any
• Special Gameplay - any but Trench Warfare games cannot take more than 20% of home games of each clan
• Round Limit - only 30 Rounds
• Round Length - only 24 Hours

Fog of rule courtesy rule will be applied by default to all games.

Note: I have allowed trench because it is perfectly balanced game setting and involves even more strategy than normal games. 20% of home games means each side can send 6 games max per challenge of trench games for the later rounds. It is a normal amount of games I think. Nukes are fine as they are and there is no problem in people playing nuke games in challenges, look at Random League for example. As for the Round limit, I have browsed more than 500 games of CCup3 and found only 1 game that has lasted more than 30 rounds (Game 11039109). Round limit is there to prevent such games from stalling the competition. If you cannot win a game but Round 30 or get a definitive advantage you may as well flip a coin. I also think it will force people to play more bravely and take their chances when they see them.


Allowed maps

Any, excluding Beta maps



Clan wars

For all rounds:
- Each clan will pick the map and settings for exactly half of the games
- Each map can only be used twice per clan per clan war but can only be used once per game type (i.e. once for triples and once for quads)

Play-in round
- 31 total games:
- 10 doubles, 10 triples, 10 quads with 31st game being Quads on World 2.1, sunny, chained, no spoils
- Each clan member can only participate in 10 games per clan war


Round of 32
- 41 total games
- 12 doubles, 14 triples, 14 quads with 31st game being Quads on World 2.1, sunny, chained, no spoils
- Each clan member can only participate in 15 games per clan war


Round of 16, Round of 8, semi-finals, finals
- 61 total games
- 20 doubles, 20 triples, 20 quads with 61st game being Quads on World 2.1, sunny, chained, no spoils
- Each clan member can only participate in 20 games per clan war


Sending games

We will stay on schedule this time and I will make sure the games are sent on time.
Penalty for being late sending or joining games will be one home game forfeiture per day unless opposing clan will agree to play the game out. Detailed schedule will be posted before each round in advance.


Change of rules by mutual agreement

Rules cannot be changed by participants at all. I reserve to myself the right to change the rules if I see that the current set of rules slows or interferes with the whole CCup.
Note: nobody really used that and I would like CCup to follow the same set of the rules each round.




============


This is only a draft. Please discuss it. I will post more on seeding system once I emulate it in my head completely and weigh all the cons and pros. I am sure there will be more changes to the rules based on your feedback. I like changes, I like to improve things and I am open to suggestions.

Dako.

[IcePack]

Coming soon:

The CC Fairness Cup 1 [FC1]

Sign up today

Ok, it is good to have your own opinion about others' ideas.
Coming soon:
"What works Cannot be improved Cup 1" [WCC1] by Ice Pack

Do we wish to have what majority of clans wish, or what loud individuals wish?
If we want to see what majority thinks, let them vote if they wish FC1 of WCC1.

Sounds good where do I sign up? And yes, if it comes to a vote I'm happy to participate. But this isn't about being the loudest. It's something simple, it works, and people obviously enjoy it or we wouldn't be here talking about the 4th installment

Popularity of the competition is going down. I am judging by number of pots/views both in CC threads and in final matches. Compare number of replies/views at CC1/CC2/CC3 final matches (use quarterfinals as merit, and the main competition topic) and you will see it is going down every year. Having 4th time the same will decrease it more. Clan world is growing up (by number of clans/players) and threads of clan wars and Cups in general are going down. Obviously something is not logical?
If you will give counter argument that number of clans participating are increasing, I will not buy that argument. Every year there are more clans around, so it is logical that number of participants are increasing just because of that, and not because of increased popularity.

There are 1000's less people on the site now than when CC1, CC2, and CC3 where taking place. Less people interested overall in how their friends are doing, older "vet" players checking in on old buds or clans, etc. Many of those players who left were active forum users, clan participants, and personalities. Something like 20k+ people used to be here, and overtime went to 18k, and now less than 15k.

I would expect number of views to go down, even of number of clans are going up. Less active players onsite overall means less forum users, less lurkers, less friends watching. A lot of newer clans that participate don't have the activity levels (in forum or otherwise) compared to the ones they are "replacing".

That doesn't mean the event popularity is down, nor bad enough to change the event.

IcePack

[Qwert]

Seeding and brackets

Undecided. We have two brackets styles that I like

1 Current brackets with seeding system done via F400
2 New seeding system with random draws for lower ranked clans

dako, maybe you dont follow mine sugestion (jacko translate these), seeding will be used from f400,,only draws will be random each round

so in Round 1-clan ranked by F400 from place 17 to 24, will be random draw with clans from 25 to 32 place.
Round 2 -clan ranked by f400 from place 9 to 16, will be random draw with winners from Round 1
Round 3-clans ranked by f400 from place 1 to 8, will be random draw with winners from round 2
QuarterFinal- 8 winners from Round 3 will be random draw
Semifinal-4 winner from Quarterfinal will be random draw
Final-2 winner from Semifinal
--------------------------------------
To clarify, its f400 will be used for starting positions.

[Foxglove]

Nicely done, Dako. I like most of the changes.

My issues are with these:

Sending games

We will stay on schedule this time and I will make sure the games are sent on time.
Penalty for being late sending or joining games will be one home game forfeiture per day unless opposing clan will agree to play the game out. Detailed schedule will be posted before each round in advance.


Change of rules by mutual agreement

Rules cannot be changed by participants at all. I reserve to myself the right to change the rules if I see that the current set of rules slows or interferes with the whole CCup.
Note: nobody really used that and I would like CCup to follow the same set of the rules each round.

I'm not a huge fan of this combination of rules. For example - what if in Round 1 or Round 2 a clan requests that a player be able to join games a few days past the deadline, as that player is returning from vacation. Your rules would prohibit any such arrangement. Shouldn't we allow for some amount of flexibility?

This is only a draft. Please discuss it. I will post more on seeding system once I emulate it in my head completely and weight all the cons and pros.

I thought the first time was a typo, but since this is the second occurrence: you weigh pros and cons. To weigh is to evaluate; weight can be thought of as the value of your assessment for each option.

[Dako]

Foxy (I can call you Foxy outside of KORT-TOFU conflict, right?),

Thank you for the weigh/weigth explanation. It was indeed a typo (two times in a row, ugh), but I have fixed it now.

As far as the rules changes - I am flexible with exclusions once in a while. I am against rules overhaul like changing limit per player or tie-breaker format. Small issues like allowing one player to be late for games will not be a problem, I will add it in the next version.

Dako.

[angola]

Good work, Dako. And let me be another to throw in support for a bracket style rather than random draw. Random draw in the first round is fine, but after that the best clans should be rewarded with high seeds and lesser competition. That's the benefit for working hard to earn your position in the rankings.

[IcePack]

I have no major objections to Dako proposals, obviously I prefer #1 for seeding.

My question goes to how you'll place those not registering on F400 yet if they apply. They could potentially qualify to get in as members of CDF.

The old event had a completed war restriction which yours doesn't seem to have, presumably leaving the door open to some clan like - Atlantis - to join in at the bottom w no wars completed to participate being seeded near the bottom...under the "getting my personal approval" rule, which is more subjective. (who would get your approval, who won't?)

IcePack