The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Old Version)

[kennys777]

I wasn't about to sift through this entire thread to see if what I am about to say has been said...

can someone write up a script that gives a warning about time running out for their teammates in games???

That would be useful since these rules are being implemented.

My clans concern for turns about to be missed usually fall around the 6 hour rule...As some of us are worldwide, and it is utterly impossible for someone to wait til the 1 hour mark for "emergency purposes.

Anyway, I sometimes miss the fact that my clanmates are about to miss a turn because the game is mixed up in all my games on my active tab. If there was a blinking red clock on the active tab showing the clock was running out in a game for a player, that would be helpful. Heck, I don't even know if it has to be an add-on.

[chapcrap]

can someone write up a script that gives a warning about time running out for their teammates in games???

Like that hasn't already been done.

Everyone understands this is only in clan war games, right? It's not every game you play in.

Which could be seen to make the discrepancy worse; two sets of rules to check to identify whether it's okay to take a turn or whether taking the turn may result in questioning what was otherwise a legitimate replacement.

And all these questions and concerns because a small percentage of people abused the already-existing account sitting guidelines.

A different set of rules for different games is easy to go buy. For instance, when you sit for someone, you aren't allowed to accept invites to normal games, but you can accept invites for tournament games for a month. That's been going on for a while and we don't have a problem with it in tournament land.

[denominator]

I wasn't about to sift through this entire thread to see if what I am about to say has been said...

can someone write up a script that gives a warning about time running out for their teammates in games???

That would be useful since these rules are being implemented.

My clans concern for turns about to be missed usually fall around the 6 hour rule...As some of us are worldwide, and it is utterly impossible for someone to wait til the 1 hour mark for "emergency purposes.

Anyway, I sometimes miss the fact that my clanmates are about to miss a turn because the game is mixed up in all my games on my active tab. If there was a blinking red clock on the active tab showing the clock was running out in a game for a player, that would be helpful. Heck, I don't even know if it has to be an add-on.

There is an entire forum titled Tools and Enhancements. Maybe check there before asking for someone else to do all the work for you?

It should be easier to follow this rule if your clan is more spread out. If all of you are in one timezone, then you are all more likely to be missing turns around the same point with nobody to cover. If you are in multiple timezones, the likelihood of a clanmate being online during missed turn periods is higher.

[kennys777]

I wasn't about to sift through this entire thread to see if what I am about to say has been said...

can someone write up a script that gives a warning about time running out for their teammates in games???

That would be useful since these rules are being implemented.

My clans concern for turns about to be missed usually fall around the 6 hour rule...As some of us are worldwide, and it is utterly impossible for someone to wait til the 1 hour mark for "emergency purposes.

Anyway, I sometimes miss the fact that my clanmates are about to miss a turn because the game is mixed up in all my games on my active tab. If there was a blinking red clock on the active tab showing the clock was running out in a game for a player, that would be helpful. Heck, I don't even know if it has to be an add-on.

There is an entire forum titled Tools and Enhancements. Maybe check there before asking for someone else to do all the work for you?

It should be easier to follow this rule if your clan is more spread out. If all of you are in one timezone, then you are all more likely to be missing turns around the same point with nobody to cover. If you are in multiple timezones, the likelihood of a clanmate being online during missed turn periods is higher.

Don't be a douchebag!!!

I was merely asking because it pertains to this specific subject, and since these rules have already been implemented, and I am just finding out about it, doesn't mean you have to be rude...Thanks for being a troll, as the comment right above yours was at least courtesy with minor sarcasm, I got that point, you on the hand, just mind your business!


AND to your 2nd point, you are assuming an entire clan has access to all passwords of all clanmates???

Not the case, I don't want 20+ players having my password...What sense of security is there for that???

[kennys777]

can someone write up a script that gives a warning about time running out for their teammates in games???

Like that hasn't already been done.

Are you referring to the Watch Games add-on?

I already have that installed, and I use it regularly, guess I will just have to put my clan games into that tab. Thanks for the re-direction.

[denominator]

I wasn't about to sift through this entire thread to see if what I am about to say has been said...

can someone write up a script that gives a warning about time running out for their teammates in games???

That would be useful since these rules are being implemented.

My clans concern for turns about to be missed usually fall around the 6 hour rule...As some of us are worldwide, and it is utterly impossible for someone to wait til the 1 hour mark for "emergency purposes.

Anyway, I sometimes miss the fact that my clanmates are about to miss a turn because the game is mixed up in all my games on my active tab. If there was a blinking red clock on the active tab showing the clock was running out in a game for a player, that would be helpful. Heck, I don't even know if it has to be an add-on.

There is an entire forum titled Tools and Enhancements. Maybe check there before asking for someone else to do all the work for you?

It should be easier to follow this rule if your clan is more spread out. If all of you are in one timezone, then you are all more likely to be missing turns around the same point with nobody to cover. If you are in multiple timezones, the likelihood of a clanmate being online during missed turn periods is higher.

Don't be a douchebag!!!

I was merely asking because it pertains to this specific subject, and since these rules have already been implemented, and I am just finding out about it, doesn't mean you have to be rude...Thanks for being a troll, as the comment right above yours was at least courtesy with minor sarcasm, I got that point, you on the hand, just mind your business!


AND to your 2nd point, you are assuming an entire clan has access to all passwords of all clanmates???

Not the case, I don't want 20+ players having my password...What sense of security is there for that???

Then stop being lazy. You admitted that you didn't want to spend the time to actually find the information, you just wanted someone to provide it for you, which I did anyways. A quick search of the forums would have cost you less than a minute.

I, for one, trust the clan I'm in with my password. If they weren't people I could trust not to abuse it, I wouldn't be a part of the clan. But if you really are worried about security, you can still pick sitters that cover multiple timezones to better conform to the 1-hour rule.

[kennys777]

I wasn't about to sift through this entire thread to see if what I am about to say has been said...

can someone write up a script that gives a warning about time running out for their teammates in games???

That would be useful since these rules are being implemented.

My clans concern for turns about to be missed usually fall around the 6 hour rule...As some of us are worldwide, and it is utterly impossible for someone to wait til the 1 hour mark for "emergency purposes.

Anyway, I sometimes miss the fact that my clanmates are about to miss a turn because the game is mixed up in all my games on my active tab. If there was a blinking red clock on the active tab showing the clock was running out in a game for a player, that would be helpful. Heck, I don't even know if it has to be an add-on.

There is an entire forum titled Tools and Enhancements. Maybe check there before asking for someone else to do all the work for you?

It should be easier to follow this rule if your clan is more spread out. If all of you are in one timezone, then you are all more likely to be missing turns around the same point with nobody to cover. If you are in multiple timezones, the likelihood of a clanmate being online during missed turn periods is higher.

Don't be a douchebag!!!

I was merely asking because it pertains to this specific subject, and since these rules have already been implemented, and I am just finding out about it, doesn't mean you have to be rude...Thanks for being a troll, as the comment right above yours was at least courtesy with minor sarcasm, I got that point, you on the hand, just mind your business!


AND to your 2nd point, you are assuming an entire clan has access to all passwords of all clanmates???

Not the case, I don't want 20+ players having my password...What sense of security is there for that???

Then stop being lazy. You admitted that you didn't want to spend the time to actually find the information, you just wanted someone to provide it for you, which I did anyways. A quick search of the forums would have cost you less than a minute.

I, for one, trust the clan I'm in with my password. If they weren't people I could trust not to abuse it, I wouldn't be a part of the clan. But if you really are worried about security, you can still pick sitters that cover multiple timezones to better conform to the 1-hour rule.

1st: I didn't say I didn't want to sift through the tools and enhancements? I said I didn't want to sift through this thread to see if someone had SUGGESTED what I suggested.

2nd: I currently have "Watch Games", and it still doesn't have the specs of what I suggested. So, if that is what you keep avoiding to say, because you are obviously baiting me into an argument here, then you have succeeded in your plan. There are no other add-ons that I can find using the search engine and words like, "Clock" or "timer" that go beyond "Watch Games".

3rd: It doesn't matter who you trust in a clan, as I am a semi-new member of FOED, so how do I know who to trust??? Do I openly give my password in our forum, even though there are a few members that I have never even spoke too, played with, etc. because of extended hiatus from the site? So, yes giving my password out to my sitters are with people I have been playing with outside of my clan for years. Yet, as I understand the rules, only clan members can take turns in clan games. I do have trustworthy people I can rely on, however the rule doesn't seem to allow error. My understanding of the rule, which you seem to overlook, is the 1 hour rule is for emergencies when no one has stated they are on vacation. My point was merely that sometimes I don't log in but every 24 hours because I work two jobs. So, I may miss someone's clock running down in my "Watch Games" tab. Hence the suggestion that PM, or auto generated email stating "Team 2" has 59 min. left before missed turn. I mean, I can get an auto generated email stating you responded to this thread, so why couldn't I get an auto-generated email in clan games when time is running out for me or my clanmates???

And, chap had already stated the same thing you stated in the post right before yours, so why would you have to re-state what has already been stated. As I said before, at least he was helpful about it, and not rude. Him and I have discussed the matter further, and the conversation was helpful to try and find a solution to these new rules. How come you just want to attack people in this forum that are trying to help the community? In my eyes, that only hinders the entire system and reason for a forum. Obviously you are the grand poobah and just have to put your 2 cents into a conversation that doesn't need money to function!

[Evil Semp]

The only great restriction that we previously did not have is the one hour rule for emergencies. That is completely manageable. These rules will do more to protect the integrity of our wars than any damage they will inflict. I promise you that.

This is a huge restriction, it's NOT 'completely manageable' and it's ridiculous for a casual gaming site to have rules about presence that are far more restrictive than most companies that pay people to be there when they say they will.

How is this ridiculous? Are you sure you aren't misinterpreting the rule? If you KNOW someone is out, you can take their turn at anytime. The rule you are freaking out about is when you DO NOT KNOW someone is out. In that case, you need to wait until the final hour.

I fail to see how that is a problem at all. That's nicer than the rule I would have suggested.

Many's the time I log in to find a pm, "Take my turns for me tonight, please."

It means I did NOT know in advance the person would be out to make the arrangements these rules require, and if the person is in a game that's just starting, according to these rules we'd be in potential violation and whatever hoops we'd have to jump through to "prove" legitimate sitting because I'm not going to wait until zero-hour to take a turn. Rarely, but occasionally I've had to make a similar request.

You may have read the rules but you don't seem to understand them.

If you receive a PM you can take their turns right then. You don't have to wait for the final hour. The final hour only comes in if HAVE NOT BEEN IN CONTACT with the person who's turn you are going to sit.

And the reason we would potentially be questioned under these new rules is because according to these rules, you have to have pre-permission to take a turn other than zero-hour at the start of a game.

If you received a PM you have pre-premission to take the turns.

[scottp]

When I get home from work I will respond to many people here. Please be patient.

Does anyone see the irony in this comment in this particular discussion?!

The fact of the matter is CC is a game and (most) of us have real lives. I have sat for clan mates with various situations and needs since I first joined The Legion. I don't feel I have ever done anything abusive or outside the spirit of fair competition, and this one hour thing is bogus. If I'm going to do a favor for a clan mate, I might wait until his/her first game gets down to 30 minutes or so... but then I'm going to take turns to give them 3 or 4 hours to return from real life to CC. I'm not going to sit by my computer to wait for each turn, in succession, to get down to 00:59:59 on the clock.

Some of you may devote more of your life to CC than the average player, even the average clan player. That you are in a position to write the rules implies a high likelihood that you do! Please realize that YOUR CC experience is not necessarily representative of the norm.

You may have read the rules but you don't seem to understand them.

If you receive a PM you can take their turns right then. You don't have to wait for the final hour. The final hour only comes in if HAVE NOT BEEN IN CONTACT with the person who's turn you are going to sit.

This makes perfect sense to you, but to me it just means anyone who wants to take 4 hours worth of turns just needs to claim that they received a text message from player X. Hard to prove, easy to fake after the fact. So, it's an unenforceable rule that relies on players' honesty to be effective. If someone was abusing the system to require these rules, what's to make one think they'll play fair now?

[Funkyterrance]

Instead of considering making a small sacrifice like always taking our own turns (most of us do this 99% of the time already right?), everyone looks to be more considering how bothersome that will be. Is it something to do with points? Clan standing? I'm asking honestly here.

I can only answer this from my personal point of view, but I feel very strongly, personally. Please do not consider what clan I am in, or any politics involved, and so on. From my heart: I care deeply about my teammates, I care deeply about game strategy, and my joy on CC comes from planning out a turn carefully, and taking into consideration all that I know to make the best turn possible. I have absolutely no desire to cheat on CC, and I even go out of my way to exhibit good sportsmanship by, for instance, observing the 12 hour fog rule, even when it's a casual game where there is no fog rule in place. Some would call me stupid for giving up a tactical advantage by not taking my turn immediately if I go first in a fog game, but, that's the way I like to play. One of the things that destroys my joy of playing is missed turns by my teammates. Suppose I have passed a stack to my teammate who goes next, and that turn is missed? The stack is useless, the game is probably lost, and all my care and attention is wasted. The flip side is, suppose I am the teammate who misses a turn, and I had been forted the stack to use for a critical move? That is a terrible thing to do to my dear teammates! I play each game for the game itself; if that game is part of a clan war, then I hope I have helped in that effort, but my enjoyment comes from the actual playing of each game. Points are irrelevant, although I do enjoy having more, rather than fewer. The only way I could continue to play on CC if sitting were outlawed would be to take a careless, casual approach to a game, maybe spend some time on strategy, maybe not, maybe take my turns, maybe not, and have the same lack of expectations for my teammates. Once I actually invest myself in a game, and put my time and energy into it, I want that game played properly, with no missed turns. Since real life does happen, people do lose internet, people do go away for a romantic weekend where they are seriously NOT going to be logging in to CC, I could simply not play the way I enjoy playing on CC if sitting was not allowed. It's not about minor inconveniences like posting in open chat when you sit for someone, it's about changing the entire CC experience. It is utterly unreasonable to expect my teammates to take 100% of their own turns all the time, and since missed turns are horrible (to me), sitting must be allowed for me to continue to enjoy CC. That is why I am passionate about this issue - not because I want to cheat, not because I am too lazy to type out "catnip in" in open chat, but because this goes to the core of my CC experience. I don't want to stray off topic here, but this continued questioning of allowing any sitting at all bothers me horribly. Have I helped you to understand my point of view? Although I speak only for myself, i do think that others feel similarly. Let's please find a way to allow legitimate sitting that is both simple and easy for sitters, yet has whatever checks and balances that are needed for fair play.

My apologies for not responding to this post earlier, I seem to have missed it in the shuffle.
I appreciate the fact that you made the effort to explain your position in depth as it certainly gives me a different angle to digest and I think your reasons for wanting sitting are quite noble. I am also glad to hear that at least one person isn't wanting things to stay the same for more or less superficial reasons.
My angle from my personal clan experience is that when someone misses, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I'm just as meticulous about turns as the next guy and yes I get pretty bummed when we miss on a tournament game. However, I put an even playing field above every other aspect of this game. For you, missing turns and letting down your teammates is the worst thing that can happen, for me, it's someone on the other side bending a rule to gain an unfair advantage over my team. I think that if you consider it, both of these scenarios are equally horrible in nature.

[stahrgazer]

The only great restriction that we previously did not have is the one hour rule for emergencies. That is completely manageable. These rules will do more to protect the integrity of our wars than any damage they will inflict. I promise you that.

This is a huge restriction, it's NOT 'completely manageable' and it's ridiculous for a casual gaming site to have rules about presence that are far more restrictive than most companies that pay people to be there when they say they will.

How is this ridiculous? Are you sure you aren't misinterpreting the rule? If you KNOW someone is out, you can take their turn at anytime. The rule you are freaking out about is when you DO NOT KNOW someone is out. In that case, you need to wait until the final hour.

I fail to see how that is a problem at all. That's nicer than the rule I would have suggested.

Many's the time I log in to find a pm, "Take my turns for me tonight, please."

It means I did NOT know in advance the person would be out to make the arrangements these rules require, and if the person is in a game that's just starting, according to these rules we'd be in potential violation and whatever hoops we'd have to jump through to "prove" legitimate sitting because I'm not going to wait until zero-hour to take a turn. Rarely, but occasionally I've had to make a similar request.

You may have read the rules but you don't seem to understand them.

If you receive a PM you can take their turns right then. You don't have to wait for the final hour. The final hour only comes in if HAVE NOT BEEN IN CONTACT with the person who's turn you are going to sit.

And the reason we would potentially be questioned under these new rules is because according to these rules, you have to have pre-permission to take a turn other than zero-hour at the start of a game.

If you received a PM you have pre-premission to take the turns.

So how about, don't take turns without pre-permission and forget the hours thing. Oh, wait, that's sort of implied in the site rules already, isn't it?

This makes perfect sense to you, but to me it just means anyone who wants to take 4 hours worth of turns just needs to claim that they received a text message from player X. Hard to prove, easy to fake after the fact. So, it's an unenforceable rule that relies on players' honesty to be effective. If someone was abusing the system to require these rules, what's to make one think they'll play fair now?

Exactly! It just adds a potential hassle to those of us who're playing fair and honestly regardless which hour the clock states.

[Evil Semp]

So how about, don't take turns without pre-permission and forget the hours thing. Oh, wait, that's sort of implied in the site rules already, isn't it?

I like that. The way I read what you said is if you don't have permission you can't take the turn at all. That would make it easier. It also eliminates you having to stay up until 3 in the morning to take someones turn.

[TheMissionary]

However, there are those situations where they are just not able to contact you. What do I do then, pass their password along to a player in each time zone? That seems more unethical than taking the turns myself.

[chemefreak]

I just love the clan world. 2 years as a CD and I am still surprised at how certain players can argue even the most simple and obvious point!

[stahrgazer]

So how about, don't take turns without pre-permission and forget the hours thing. Oh, wait, that's sort of implied in the site rules already, isn't it?

I like that. The way I read what you said is if you don't have permission you can't take the turn at all. That would make it easier. It also eliminates you having to stay up until 3 in the morning to take someones turn.

Yes. I believe that the current site rules imply that you don't take turns without permission, because if you're taking turns without permission, you're not sitting, you're account sharing, and if you have a main account and one you share, you're sort of a multi which is against the rules.

The only problem with it is, occasionally you'll get someone who says, "I'm not sure if I'll be able to be on tonight/this weekend," so gives you permission to take the turns just in case. This is where, if it happens too often, it falls into the realm of abuse.

[greenoaks]

The only problem with it is, occasionally you'll get someone who says, "I'm not sure if I'll be able to be on tonight/this weekend," so gives you permission to take the turns just in case. This is where, if it happens too often, it falls into the realm of abuse.

i think this is what they are trying to warn us against doing by saying if it happens once no big deal but if they see a pattern ..........

[stahrgazer]

The only problem with it is, occasionally you'll get someone who says, "I'm not sure if I'll be able to be on tonight/this weekend," so gives you permission to take the turns just in case. This is where, if it happens too often, it falls into the realm of abuse.

i think this is what they are trying to warn us against doing by saying if it happens once no big deal but if they see a pattern ..........

Well, the existing site rules already implied that, so what's all this bogus nonsense here?

[chemefreak]

Well, the existing site rules already implied that, so what's all this bogus nonsense here?

We will see how bogus they feel when they are enforced! The rules are set. They were thoughtfully crafted by the CDs and clan leaders. Now lets just focus on having fun!

[eddie2]

stahr this is where i got lost in it. the rules are literally site rules nickys own words from a post on page 23.

All rules have been made in the framework of existing site rules.

Players are allowed to account-sit for others as long as they are not opponents within the game. It is common courtesy to announce in game chat that another player will take your turn(s) during your absence. Babysitters should only do what is necessary to take the turn(s) and should not interact with the community, start or join new games (except for ongoing tournaments). Furthermore, you should only take another player's turn if they are in danger of missing a turn, not for the purpose of gaining a tactical advantage.

the only thing i was puzzled with was this from the nickys op.

Punishments

Anyone caught breaking these rules will be subject to penalties as determined at the sole discretion of the CD Team. Penalties may include loss of privileges, loss of medals, forfeiture of games, and any other punishment the CD Team deems appropriate.The CD team will take a common sense approach when ruling on each individual case.

then evil semp making this comment.
eddie

I think I can speak for C&A. If a site rule is broken and it is brought to our attention it will NOT BE IGNORED. These new clan rules only pertain to account sitting.

these comments above contradicted each other since the new clan rules will mean you have breached a site rule,(by this i mean new clan rules are a more defined version of site rules, So if you breach a clan sitting rule you have breached a stricter version of a site rule)but the post from the clan team says only clan mods will be issuing punishments.But evil has said this is not the case.

[eddie2]

now i have just read this post...

Well, the existing site rules already implied that, so what's all this bogus nonsense here?

We will see how bogus they feel when they are enforced! The rules are set. They were thoughtfully crafted by the CDs and clan leaders. Now lets just focus on having fun!

but from the op???

We have been discussing how best to draft these rules over the last three months. We have used a consultation group to gain different perspectives. And have been in consultation with admin. It was very difficult to get a list of rules that covered every possibility whilst remaining simple and easy to follow.

this does not mention clan leaders how were these leaders defined as to which ones would and which ones would not take part in discussions, since i have seen posts from nearly all clans can we not ask why them leaders have not told there clans they were involved in the drafting of this...

if admin was involved can we not also ask why then would they allow a final draft saying clan mods have full control of punishments for players breaching sitting rules(which would also breach some site rules.) but did not tell c and a mods this was happening or visa versa tell clan mods they could not happen....

to me this all looks like something my 10 year old daughter could of put together i 5 mins(this is not meant in any offense to any member) and has not been talked about properly ironing out any wrinkles.

fair enough i am first to admit rules are needed but they need to be done properly and talked about then defined in the rules.... i got a post to say you could post in clan war threads instead of individual games from a clan mod but this has not been added to that part of the rules. meaning i have breached the rules as they stand just now.

[chemefreak]

The rules will be in conjunction with site rules. We even have an account sitting hunter now ES's post is not out of line with anything we have talked about. How it will all work together will be seen in time.

[Evil Semp]

Punishments

Anyone caught breaking these rules will be subject to penalties as determined at the sole discretion of the CD Team. Penalties may include loss of privileges, loss of medals, forfeiture of games, and any other punishment the CD Team deems appropriate.The CD team will take a common sense approach when ruling on each individual case.

then evil semp making this comment.
eddie

I think I can speak for C&A. If a site rule is broken and it is brought to our attention it will NOT BE IGNORED. These new clan rules only pertain to account sitting.

these comments above contradicted each other since the new clan rules will mean you have breached a site rule,(by this i mean new clan rules are a more defined version of site rules, So if you breach a clan sitting rule you have breached a stricter version of a site rule)but the post from the clan team says only clan mods will be issuing punishments.But evil has said this is not the case.

No contradiction eddie. If you break the one hour rule that will not be punished by C&A but will be handled by the CD's.

[HardAttack]

What about we PM to clan directors, they sit for all in danger missing turns ?

[HardAttack]

This 1st turn permission thing, the most hilarious, weird, inferior, smelly, rotten idea i have ever heard...
My appologizes, i dont think i will need it but, you clan directors, every single day, you are making clan world one step ahead unberable...You well may pretty expect soon, there will be clan directors and CLA 4-5 folks in it mostly CDs but nothing more left...Hey you, enjoy huh ?

This is not any improvement, this is dungeon life, middle even dark age mentalism, funny and sad.

One smart fella comes around, if turn is 1st turn do this , then do that then jump 2 steps ahead, 15 push ups then take the turn.
If it is turn 2, go down to the town, buy me 2 cupcakes then come back to take ur turn.
What are we doin in turn 3-4-5 and so ?
Is there a turn limit ?

[HardAttack]

Clan directors,

you are given rights but not weed to come with some wise calls, but not mock/bull around/go insane ...