freakns: Account Sharing[warned]es

[IcePack]

Accused:

freakns

The accused are suspected of: Other: <Account Sharing>

In the thread: viewtopic.php?f=438&t=182267&start=0 and as quoted by BGtheBrain:

Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.

Freakns multiple times says he was account sharing with his clan mates, and asked several times to be reported. I'm here to grant his wish. I assume he will get a warning, or whatever the next step on the scale is for his infraction. He asked for and admitted on these posts:

viewtopic.php?f=438&t=182267&start=90#p3981268

One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?

Nobody should be doing this. You should only go on another's account to cover a turn they might miss. It is NOT OK for a clan leader to be checking out games this way whether or not they offer advice. That is nothing to do with the new clan rules, that is the site rule.

why so? i have been doing this since i have joined site. i like to know what is going on, and i leave without making any move or comment.

And here: viewtopic.php?f=438&t=182267&start=90#p3981289

but we all do this! all top clans are doing this! and its not going to stop. and what is the worse thing, me logging into someones acc and looking at map, or someone taking snap posting at internal forum and asking for advice?!

i am on this site because of clans and clan wars. i dont care about points, tournaments, titles, medals, etc, etc... i like to play a game or two for fun, but the only games that really interest me are clan games. and i want to be able to see what is going on in clan games im not in, and you are telling me its abuse of rules? just to look at the game?! thats beyond stupid.

And here: viewtopic.php?f=438&t=182267&start=120#p3981476

i admit i have break the rules of this site by having permanent password of some members and by giving mine permanent password to some members. this is against the rules just as much as it against the rules to look at fog situation. so dont preach me how im breaking site rules when you clearly doing the same. dont be a hypocrite. and its not just me and you, its majority of clan community. if everything is played strictly by the rules of site then there would be no need for emergency rule because noone could take your turn.

im asking what is wrong with looking into fog games of your clan without making comments? its same shit as having someones permanent password.

And here: viewtopic.php?f=438&t=182267&start=120#p3981720

good, if its account sharing, than ban me. make a thread on cheating and abuse report, pass me a link, and i will confirm that i have been logging into clan mates accounts to see how the game is going on. you are saying it is against site rules, then take action into your hands, and ask for my banishment from the site. im sure many from here will back you up on this, because as far as i can see, this is HUGE problem. so, do something about it, make the thread, make the clan world better place.
i posted what i have done just to make sure you and everyone else understand i havent effected game in any way. i do believe many people do the same thing, but not all, cause if all of the people have done that, we wouldnt have this discussion right now.

And here: viewtopic.php?f=438&t=182267&start=135#p3981802

Finsfleet and freakns......

Now you aren't following the number one rule of rules club, take a deep breath I really don't want to have lock this thread

Now while you think you may have valid points basically most you are saying was already against site rules. Now this a clean slate, we are moving forward. We must all adhere to site rules. They are there to prevent abuse. Now why you may state you will break them, i urge to take a step back and consider what you are saying.

If you have a planned vacation, why is it such an a big deal to mention it to your clan.....Is that not a bit disrespectful. Your clan organisers spend a great deal of their spare time organising clan wars etc. If you say you will break the rules, how is that fair on them. Because ultimately it wont just be you that will cause infractions, these infractions will affect your sitters and ultimately your whole clan. If your clan keeps fielding players who cant take their turns , and if you log onto someones account for the reasons stated the clan will suffer. Why would anyone want that.

i dont want clean slate. i will stay behind my actions. if looking at clan game is banable offense, then ban me, simple as that. dont go by higher ground here. you said your only goal is to make clan world better place. as far as i can see, i am the cancer to that place, so remove it. or shell we be honest and say truthfully what is all this about?! name the persons who are responsible for "making new rules", cmon, be honest and say whats this all about.
someone here said "take a screenshot and post it on forum", because thats legal. are you kidding me?! thats far worse and have much more consequences then me liking to know what is going on.
also, if someone goes into vacation he will say that to his sitter, not sure why is it important to be posted in clan war thread?!
and it was mentioned more then once, by hunters, having someones permanent password is illegal. now i here its not illegal. so hunters have been lying all this time?

Comments:
I believe he pretty much summed it up himself. I dont care either way, but if he wants to be a prick about it then I'll be happy to oblige his request.



IcePack

[Funkyterrance]

I suppose this all depends on how prevalent this actually is in clans. From what I know my clan does not do this but I have no idea about others. If the majority of clans do indeed practice this sort of thing I suppose a widespread investigation should take place, not just an investigation of one player AKA Freakns.
I also suppose it matters whether the specifics of said games are discussed anywhere. No mention in chat but is there discussion via pm's? Emails? IM? It would be nice if we were able to trust everyone as I do believe that Freakns does not discuss the games but I can't say that for all clans/players since I do not have the pleasure to know them all.

[IcePack]

I suppose this all depends on how prevalent this actually is in clans. From what I know my clan does not do this but I have no idea about others. If the majority of clans do indeed practice this sort of thing I suppose a widespread investigation should take place, not just an investigation of one player AKA Freakns.
I also suppose it matters whether the specifics of said games are discussed anywhere. No mention in chat but is there discussion via pm's? Emails? IM? It would be nice if we were able to trust everyone as I do believe that Freakns does not discuss the games but I can't say that for all clans/players since I do not have the pleasure to know them all.

Understood. But this is about freakns, and I know our clan (and many others) don't practise this. And just like multi's or anything else, regardless of how prevalent it is, this is a specific instance and admission of the activity against site rules.

Similar when someone posts a C&A on themselves for being a multi. They get what they ask for.

IcePack

[Funkyterrance]

Understood. But this is about freakns, and I know our clan (and many others) don't practise this. And just like multi's or anything else, regardless of how prevalent it is, this is a specific instance and admission of the activity against site rules.

Similar when someone posts a C&A on themselves for being a multi. They get what they ask for.

IcePack

I can't counter your point as you're ultimately right.
I just would hope that if this is the case that Freakns is not the only one who is reprimanded. If he's going to be a sacrificial lamb he should at least become a martyr as well.

[betiko]

I'm here to step up in freak's defense. there has been some blury rules till now, and now that an square account sitting rule has just been set up I think everyone should start with a clean sheet for stuff that have been blury till now. Real account sharing is several persons playing turns on the same account. This is not the case. And yes, from what I know most top clans do this, have a peak at current war games to see how they''re going.

[Funkyterrance]

I'm here to step up in freak's defense. there has been some blury rules till now, and now that an square account sitting rule has just been set up I think everyone should start with a clean sheet for stuff that have been blury till now. Real account sharing is several persons playing turns on the same account. This is not the case. And yes, from what I know most top clans do this, have a peak at current war games to see how they''re going.

This is all fine and good and I agree that Freak is no more guilty than the others whom we all know partake in this sort of thing but if its going to be a clean slate then Freak can't say he is going to continue regardless.
Any future infractions should result in repercussions, no exceptions. It's the only fair way to do it.

[betiko]

I'm here to step up in freak's defense. there has been some blury rules till now, and now that an square account sitting rule has just been set up I think everyone should start with a clean sheet for stuff that have been blury till now. Real account sharing is several persons playing turns on the same account. This is not the case. And yes, from what I know most top clans do this, have a peak at current war games to see how they''re going.

This is all fine and good and I agree that Freak is no more guilty than the others whom we all know partake in this sort of thing but if its going to be a clean slate then Freak can't say he is going to continue regardless.
Any future infractions should result in repercussions, no exceptions. It's the only fair way to do it.

to tell the truth i haven't read the whole thing, i dropped the conversation when icepack and freak started epenising. I guess this whole thing is getting out of proportions, but anyways, if there is now a square rule about it then fine. but I guess the whole point is not to mix ip adresses on accounts more than really have a peak at games.

[freakns]

i want to acknowledge i have done this. im not ashamed of it, nor do i consider it cheating. if this however is cheating and banable offense, then im guilty and i will gladly pay the price for it.

[Funkyterrance]

i want to acknowledge i have done this. im not ashamed of it, nor do i consider it cheating. if this however is cheating and banable offense, then im guilty and i will gladly pay the price for it.

The big question is Freak: Are you going to continue to do it?
I don't think most will hold it against you if you have done it in the past since as you pointed out, many others seem to have done it as well. However, now that it has been firmly established that it's not going to be permitted in the future, we all hope that you are on board.

[codeblue1018]

ffs, is this what we are going to be dealing with now? Instead of the abundance of multis on this site, it will now turn to clan violations on an already busy forum? Like Betiko said; new rules = clean slate for previous violators. Violations prior to the implementation of the new rules should be left alone.

[Funkyterrance]

ffs, is this what we are going to be dealing with now? Instead of the abundance of multis on this site, it will now turn to clan violations on an already busy forum? Like Betiko said; new rules = clean slate for previous violators. Violations prior to the implementation of the new rules should be left alone.

You didn't read the whole thread either...

[greenoaks]

ffs, is this what we are going to be dealing with now? Instead of the abundance of multis on this site, it will now turn to clan violations on an already busy forum? Like Betiko said; new rules = clean slate for previous violators. Violations prior to the implementation of the new rules should be left alone.

it is not a new rule. account sharing has been forbidden for a long time now.

everytime he logs onto another's account he is sharing it with that player as he is not there to cover an about to be missed turn.

[codeblue1018]

ffs, is this what we are going to be dealing with now? Instead of the abundance of multis on this site, it will now turn to clan violations on an already busy forum? Like Betiko said; new rules = clean slate for previous violators. Violations prior to the implementation of the new rules should be left alone.

You didn't read the whole thread either...

No I didn't; glanced through. My apologies.

[freakns]

i want to acknowledge i have done this. im not ashamed of it, nor do i consider it cheating. if this however is cheating and banable offense, then im guilty and i will gladly pay the price for it.

The big question is Freak: Are you going to continue to do it?
I don't think most will hold it against you if you have done it in the past since as you pointed out, many others seem to have done it as well. However, now that it has been firmly established that it's not going to be permitted in the future, we all hope that you are on board.

no, that is not the big question. i can say i will, i can say i will not, it doesnt matter. truth is, i can do all this without being notice(just as much as i could chose to be silent about it). we in Otpisani share same flag, i can change IP whenever i want to, so if its so important to me to break the rules, i can lie here and continue to break them. simple as that. as i said already, i have no problem of not looking into the fog games, but then lets all do not only that but define every single thing to the letter. they say 1hr rule is going to take place now. good. then if someone takes the move 1hr and 1 minute before deadline should be banned. and thats just one example. that is the big question. and then lets see how far shell we go in securing noone is breaking rules.
and you know what is the answer? they will not do that, they will not ban someone for taking turn 1 hr and 1 minute before deadline. they will say its just one minute.
then youll have a player who is absent for 3 straight weeks. it will go down like this:
saturday 1: josko here playing for moonchild. emergency absence in place. he was fucking the sheep and got his dick stuck, surgery was required. im glad to say both him and sheep are OK, but he will need weekend for recovery.
saturday 2: josko here playing for moonchild. terrible tragedy has strike us. moonchild broke his nail while trying to type, he is in mourn and can not play any moves until they properly bury the nail.
saturday 3: josko here playing for moonchild. you remember that sheep from couple of saturdays ago? well, she is giving birth and moonchild and brucewar are in hospital checking their DNA to be sure whos lamb it is, otherwise they will refuse to pay child support. filthy whore! i will play instead of brucewar too, obviously...
etc, etc... and it will be given to clan directors to decide when he crossed the line.(which is foul by itself because its not strictly defined but rather subjective ) and meanwhile, you will have Q&A forum filled with stupid accusations.

ffs, is this what we are going to be dealing with now? Instead of the abundance of multis on this site, it will now turn to clan violations on an already busy forum? Like Betiko said; new rules = clean slate for previous violators. Violations prior to the implementation of the new rules should be left alone.

it is not a new rule. account sharing has been forbidden for a long time now.

everytime he logs onto another's account he is sharing it with that player as he is not there to cover an about to be missed turn.

you see, this guy gets it. follow the low to the letter. no grey area here.

[betiko]

for the saturday 3 it's easy to find out, if one of them has Welsh origins he is the one who should pay the pension.

[IcePack]

ffs, is this what we are going to be dealing with now? Instead of the abundance of multis on this site, it will now turn to clan violations on an already busy forum? Like Betiko said; new rules = clean slate for previous violators. Violations prior to the implementation of the new rules should be left alone.

This isn't a new rule. It's been around a long time now. This really doesn't have anything to do with new clan rules. Even if it was offered he posted very clear he didn't want a clean slate.

If this isn't considered account sharing. I would very much like to know that. I can save myself a LOT of time, trouble, PM's and heart ache trying to figure out how are games are going and instead of PM'ing and looking at logs, etc I can just save time and go right to the source.

IcePack

[clangfield]

Perhaps we should just ban clans altogether.
If people are going to behave like idiots then they should be treated accordingly.
Using another's account to see what's going on in a fog game should be instant removal from the site. Why bother playing fog if you can't cope with not seeing the opponents' positions?
It's akin to playing golf by picking up the ball, dropping it in the hole, and claiming to have gone round in 18. This is a game - play it properly or not at all.
How about we have no rules and everyone's dice is always a six?

[Arama86n]

Perhaps we should just ban clans altogether.
If people are going to behave like idiots then they should be treated accordingly.
Using another's account to see what's going on in a fog game should be instant removal from the site. Why bother playing fog if you can't cope with not seeing the opponents' positions?
It's akin to playing golf by picking up the ball, dropping it in the hole, and claiming to have gone round in 18. This is a game - play it properly or not at all.
How about we have no rules and everyone's dice is always a six?

You have totally misunderstood what this is about.
The issue is not about gaining an advantage in-game in any way, what he is doing is logging into accounts of his own clan-mates so he knows how said clan-war games are going without having to ask the people involved and to save time.
For the record I'm not endorsing his actions (or commenting the matter at all), just explaining to you what this is about as you seem to want to share your subjective opinion regarding a matter of which you have no understanding.

[clangfield]

You're right. I have no understanding of why anyone would be so obsessed as to need to look into other people's games.
My opinion is subjective, but then, aren't all opinions subjective?
For what it's worth... I have no problem with people sitting on behalf of someone if they are due to be absent. It's the potential to do it whenever and wherever one feels like it that I'm not comfortable with. It's effectively making the clan a multi.
I suppose as long as this is restricted to clan v clan games, and everyone knows it's allowed, then it shouldn't impact on "ordinary" games for ordinary players, but it shouldn't be allowed outside of the clan-destine world.

[freakns]

1) You're right. I have no understanding of why anyone would be so obsessed as to need to look into other people's games.
My opinion is subjective, but then, aren't all opinions subjective?
For what it's worth... I have no problem with people sitting on behalf of someone if they are due to be absent. It's the potential to do it whenever and wherever one feels like it that I'm not comfortable with. It's effectively making the clan a multi.
2) I suppose as long as this is restricted to clan v clan games, and everyone knows it's allowed, then it shouldn't impact on "ordinary" games for ordinary players, but it shouldn't be allowed outside of the clan-destine world.

1) thats because you are not in the clan. yes, i know its just a game. but so is basketball
2) why would i want to look into "ordinary" game? i have no interest in those games weather my clan mate is winning or loosing, makes no difference.

ill try to repeat again, so everyone understand. i havent effect any game nor clan security with my actions. if its forbidden and consider being account sharing, then yes, i should be banned. but rule is still stupid.

[macbone]

Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common. If this is against the rules, let's codify it, but there's no reason to single out one player for something that many do on Conquer Club.

In my understanding of "account sharing," two or more players regularly play on the account. No, I don't agree that clan leaders should regularly log in to their clanmates accounts to check on a game, and our clan doesn't do that (as far as I'm aware), but there's no easy way to give advice in foggy games short of taking a snapshot, uploading it, and posting it somewhere (which is why we don't teach foggy games in SoC terminator/standard school).

I sincerely hope this clan rules issue is not going to turn into a witch hunt to see how many players can be banned for questionable practices. I'm not in favor of banning anyone other than the grossest offenders of site rules. Banning a significant portion of players for potentially gray areas of misconduct doesn't make good economic sense; providing clear, simple-to-follow rules that enable us all to play fair, enjoyable games does.

[Funkyterrance]

i want to acknowledge i have done this. im not ashamed of it, nor do i consider it cheating. if this however is cheating and banable offense, then im guilty and i will gladly pay the price for it.

The big question is Freak: Are you going to continue to do it?
I don't think most will hold it against you if you have done it in the past since as you pointed out, many others seem to have done it as well. However, now that it has been firmly established that it's not going to be permitted in the future, we all hope that you are on board.

no, that is not the big question. i can say i will, i can say i will not, it doesnt matter. truth is, i can do all this without being notice(just as much as i could chose to be silent about it). we in Otpisani share same flag, i can change IP whenever i want to, so if its so important to me to break the rules, i can lie here and continue to break them. simple as that. as i said already, i have no problem of not looking into the fog games, but then lets all do not only that but define every single thing to the letter. they say 1hr rule is going to take place now. good. then if someone takes the move 1hr and 1 minute before deadline should be banned. and thats just one example. that is the big question. and then lets see how far shell we go in securing noone is breaking rules.
and you know what is the answer? they will not do that, they will not ban someone for taking turn 1 hr and 1 minute before deadline. they will say its just one minute.
then youll have a player who is absent for 3 straight weeks. it will go down like this:
saturday 1: josko here playing for moonchild. emergency absence in place. he was fucking the sheep and got his dick stuck, surgery was required. im glad to say both him and sheep are OK, but he will need weekend for recovery.
saturday 2: josko here playing for moonchild. terrible tragedy has strike us. moonchild broke his nail while trying to type, he is in mourn and can not play any moves until they properly bury the nail.
saturday 3: josko here playing for moonchild. you remember that sheep from couple of saturdays ago? well, she is giving birth and moonchild and brucewar are in hospital checking their DNA to be sure whos lamb it is, otherwise they will refuse to pay child support. filthy whore! i will play instead of brucewar too, obviously...
etc, etc... and it will be given to clan directors to decide when he crossed the line.(which is foul by itself because its not strictly defined but rather subjective ) and meanwhile, you will have Q&A forum filled with stupid accusations.

ffs, is this what we are going to be dealing with now? Instead of the abundance of multis on this site, it will now turn to clan violations on an already busy forum? Like Betiko said; new rules = clean slate for previous violators. Violations prior to the implementation of the new rules should be left alone.

it is not a new rule. account sharing has been forbidden for a long time now.

everytime he logs onto another's account he is sharing it with that player as he is not there to cover an about to be missed turn.

you see, this guy gets it. follow the low to the letter. no grey area here.

Freakns, I realize the point you are trying to make but I think you may underestimate how serious the mods can be about this sort of thing. If you continue to "peek" at other players games you are account sharing. In a perfect world everyone would believe you when you say you don't offer advice but the fact is that people are distrustful of people they don't know in rl. I get the impression that you don't believe that you will get banned for any of this because you consider it trivial but I can assure you that not everyone does. Does admin? Who knows? They won't say even if they do think it's silly because they have a role that requires them to take seriously what the players take seriously.
Ultimately it does come down to you respecting the rules of the site and respecting your peers. If you aren't gaining any advantage by peeking into game by giving advice then why is it such a big deal for you to stop in the interest of your fellow players? I don't think you want to get banned but counting on the fact that you think the matter is trivial is not helping your case.

[Funkyterrance]

Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common.

Dude, in a clanwar environment this is completely shady.

[Vid_FISO]

Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common.

Dude, in a clanwar environment this is completely shady.

Not good in any environment, are the majority of players cheats? The majority of clans? The excuse being that "everybody else is doing it"? The more this continues the more distasteful it is.

[IcePack]

Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common. If this is against the rules, let's codify it, but there's no reason to single out one player for something that many do on Conquer Club.

In my understanding of "account sharing," two or more players regularly play on the account. No, I don't agree that clan leaders should regularly log in to their clanmates accounts to check on a game, and our clan doesn't do that (as far as I'm aware), but there's no easy way to give advice in foggy games short of taking a snapshot, uploading it, and posting it somewhere (which is why we don't teach foggy games in SoC terminator/standard school).

I sincerely hope this clan rules issue is not going to turn into a witch hunt to see how many players can be banned for questionable practices. I'm not in favor of banning anyone other than the grossest offenders of site rules. Banning a significant portion of players for potentially gray areas of misconduct doesn't make good economic sense; providing clear, simple-to-follow rules that enable us all to play fair, enjoyable games does.

This is completely against the rules. He wasn't giving advice, he was just looking at others games. If you are logging into other accounts and giving advice in chat, thats also against the rules. This has been pretty clear from the start. I dont think its "grey" at all, our clan has always understood this as a improper practice and seems like lots of others have as well. If your clan (or OTP) has been doing this, its against site rules. He's continued to say post a C&A and if its wrong then he'll accept punishment, etc. so here we are. It isn't a witch hunt.

You shouldn't be logging into someone elses account, other than to take a turn as a sitter. Pretty clear! Not to give advice, not to look at games, not to joke around or save time by looking behind the fog.

If this practice is allowed, than this C&A case will clear it up and I can save myself a LOT of time and heartache while trying to figure out where we are in wars. And if we can get advice, then i'm sure we in the Fallen will start improving right away. We will have an answer shortly.

IcePack