Afroaction - Ratings Abuse[warned] BG

[hmsps]

After looking through his ratings, as far in as page 70, i can only conclude that Afroaction is an extremely poor sport who uses the rating system as a weapon in a vindictive and spitefully retaliation towards players (especially lower ranked) who beat him. This is another example of gross abuse, with the accused player excessively rating opponents poorly with little to no justification other then the fact that he can.

Afro you're welcome to contest this and i would be interested for you to explain why you left 3x1 star ratings and tags such as clueless, and cheap tactics for the players in games :
Game 8560203
Game 8879702
Game 8906782
Game 8940842
Game 8940835
Game 8961226

The examples provided are only a fraction of existing similar ratings.

I was unaware that cheap tactics existed in sequential 1vs1's and that winning a 1vs1 makes a player clueless .

Just out of interest in a rating you left http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=11230945, where was he rude and a complainer? Also from someone who knows all about the ratings system, 45 left in 1700 games.

[afroaction]

Like I said before in the forum, I have 6889 results on 138 pages of ratings, I can not explain all the reasons for all of them, pick out as many as you feel were not justified, i will explain why i gave out those ratings. Until then, I feel the matter is closed.

Why is it that you can leave a response for ratings received and not for ratings left?

If we had that option, that would shut up a lot the cry babies out there?

Grant it you guys are sure fishing for shit? You posted all the one stars i left, but didn't post any of the 5 stars i left to make a caparison of what is my scale of how I rate someone.

If you're worried about the one stars left when I only played one game against them, I also consider the player's entire history.

For example : If the player has a 94% or less turns taken.

I hate deadbeats, and consider that being a cheap tactic.

If you're a high rank, and only play high ranks because you're too chicken to lose points, well that's cheap.

If you're a high rank and farming, that's another cheap tactic.

If a player is rude, or complains, or posted crap in the forums....

If you're a low rank and join my games, just to gain points....

If I've asked you not to join any more of games that i created because I working on my medals, and continue to join them over, and over and over..... well that's UN-cooperative, rude and cheap.

Well guess what people! You will get a low rating! It's not an abuse of the system, the system is a personal opinion of the player.It is what is.

[trinicardinal]

Like I said before in the forum, I have 6889 results on 138 pages of ratings, I can not explain all the reasons for all of them, pick out as many as you feel were not justified, i will explain why i gave out those ratings. Until then, I feel the matter is closed.

Why is it that you can leave a response for ratings received and not for ratings left?

If we had that option, that would shut up a lot the cry babies out there?

Grant it you guys are sure fishing for shit? You posted all the one stars i left, but didn't post any of the 5 stars i left to make a caparison of what is my scale of how I rate someone.

If you're worried about the one stars left when I only played one game against them, I also consider the player's entire history.

For example : If the player has a 94% or less turns taken.


I hate deadbeats, and consider that being a cheap tactic.


If a player is rude, or complains, or posted crap in the forums....

Well guess what people! You will get a low rating!

Based on that explanation afroaction it would appear that either

a) you do not understand the way the rating system is supposed to work

the instructions state

Whenever leaving ratings, use caution and good judgement. You are responsible for the ratings that you leave and they become a permanent part of the other member's record, so be sure to leave only fair and factual ratings that relate to the member's behaviour in the game.

Note it says in the game not on the site. If this is the case then you should start rating based on the game only.

b) you are intentionally using the rating system to give bad ratings to those who have annoyed you anywhere on the site. If this is the case then you are abusing the rating system

I certainly hope that it is a) and not b) which is something that i can understand. Can you please clarify?

[hmsps]

Just to refresh everyone's memory as to what the community guidelines say about ratings abuse, please read it carefully before commenting:

If you are found guilty of Ratings Abuse---that is, rating your opponents unjustifiably, haphazardly, and systematically in a destructive or inappropriate manner (such as repeatedly giving out inaccurate ratings without evidence to justify your ratings)

Now to break it down to the key part:

unjustifiably, haphazardly, and systematically &

repeatedly giving out inaccurate ratings without evidence to justify your ratings

All ratings are justifiable in the persons mind who is giving the rating, so that is a matter of opinion, the ratings made by Afroaction are not haphazard as judging by the stars he rates people, he gives thought to their gameplay or he would just do what HA did and rate the odd person who he considers is crap and systematically, how is a few ratings out of 6000+ systematic.

And the final part which is a catch all, it is not repeatedly. Please stop making up the rules, just give an honest ruling using the guidelines in place.

This is a case of foe and move on. Afroaction was hurt because he got beat and the OP was hurt because of the rating. If the system allowed, we could all change the ratings back to fluffy 5 stars and everyone would be happy.

[BGtheBrain]

afroaction has been warned for Ratings Abuse

Ratings
Crispybits - Unjustified Rating - 1-1-1
Wi1bert - Unjustified Rating - 1-1-1
Larteaga - Unjustified Rating - 1-1-1
Kjg21 - Unjustified Rating - Backstabber
IanG7 - Unjustified Rating - Backstabber
Fidias - Unjustified Rating - 1-1-1

I examined each of these ratings and did not find them justifiable. Some seemed to be related to AA's frustration with losing. And some (Backstabber) just make no sense at all.

Just because a player leaves hundreds of 5 star ratings, doesnt justify leaving bad ratings that show little or no logic justification.

To appeal this decision, click HERE

[hmsps]

Like I said before in the forum, I have 6889 results on 138 pages of ratings, I can not explain all the reasons for all of them, pick out as many as you feel were not justified, i will explain why i gave out those ratings. Until then, I feel the matter is closed.

Why is it that you can leave a response for ratings received and not for ratings left?

If we had that option, that would shut up a lot the cry babies out there?

Grant it you guys are sure fishing for shit? You posted all the one stars i left, but didn't post any of the 5 stars i left to make a caparison of what is my scale of how I rate someone.

If you're worried about the one stars left when I only played one game against them, I also consider the player's entire history.

For example : If the player has a 94% or less turns taken.


I hate deadbeats, and consider that being a cheap tactic.


If a player is rude, or complains, or posted crap in the forums....

Well guess what people! You will get a low rating!

Based on that explanation afroaction it would appear that either

a) you do not understand the way the rating system is supposed to work

the instructions state

Whenever leaving ratings, use caution and good judgement. You are responsible for the ratings that you leave and they become a permanent part of the other member's record, so be sure to leave only fair and factual ratings that relate to the member's behaviour in the game.

Note it says in the game not on the site. If this is the case then you should start rating based on the game only.

b) you are intentionally using the rating system to give bad ratings to those who have annoyed you anywhere on the site. If this is the case then you are abusing the rating system

I certainly hope that it is a) and not b) which is something that i can understand. Can you please clarify?

Maybe it should be more clear, however the key point use caution and good judgement, so what you are saying is that we all should use the same judgement?

[afroaction]

What ever, Bg, give me all the warnings you want, I feel that if the person deserves a 1 star, regardless of if I lost the game or not, I will continue do so. It may look like that, but there's no way to leave any response for why that person received the rating from me on the page.

I look at the player entire history, and make my judgement for there.

My scale is simple: 5 stars equals 100% play

3 stars = average

1 star = Very poor

There's a wide variety of personal criteria that i judge someone, that there are no tags for, again the rating system is flawed, nor am I abusing the system.

[Larry46]

How would you rate yourself?

[trinicardinal]

I look at the player entire history, and make my judgement for there.

Like I said before if you are using the entire history and not that particular game then you are not following the intent of the ratings system and can be considered to be abusing the system.

Like I said before in the forum, I have 6889 results on 138 pages of ratings, I can not explain all the reasons for all of them, pick out as many as you feel were not justified, i will explain why i gave out those ratings. Until then, I feel the matter is closed.

Why is it that you can leave a response for ratings received and not for ratings left?

If we had that option, that would shut up a lot the cry babies out there?

Grant it you guys are sure fishing for shit? You posted all the one stars i left, but didn't post any of the 5 stars i left to make a caparison of what is my scale of how I rate someone.

If you're worried about the one stars left when I only played one game against them, I also consider the player's entire history.

For example : If the player has a 94% or less turns taken.


I hate deadbeats, and consider that being a cheap tactic.


If a player is rude, or complains, or posted crap in the forums....

Well guess what people! You will get a low rating!

Based on that explanation afroaction it would appear that either

a) you do not understand the way the rating system is supposed to work

the instructions state

Whenever leaving ratings, use caution and good judgement. You are responsible for the ratings that you leave and they become a permanent part of the other member's record, so be sure to leave only fair and factual ratings that relate to the member's behaviour in the game.

Note it says in the game not on the site. If this is the case then you should start rating based on the game only.

b) you are intentionally using the rating system to give bad ratings to those who have annoyed you anywhere on the site. If this is the case then you are abusing the rating system

I certainly hope that it is a) and not b) which is something that i can understand. Can you please clarify?

Maybe it should be more clear, however the key point use caution and good judgement, so what you are saying is that we all should use the same judgement?

Maybe it could be clearer although it hard to see what is clearer than "in the game". and I doubt very much that everyone is expected to have exactly the same judgement but these things are always subject to what you would expect from a reasonable person.

[DiM]

i was right.

after they cleared HA they'll pretty much have to clear almost anybody when it comes to ratings abuse.


maybe they should just create a "free pass"/"get out of jail" system.

you are a valuable member of the community that dedicated a lot of time and contributed to this site (like HA) then you get a "free pass"/"get out of jail" card. it would explain why HA got cleared and why afroaction will be punished.

but once again shady rules make room for shady decisions.

[crispybits]

I hate deadbeats, and consider that being a cheap tactic.

Game 11320973

You hate them so bad - really cheap yeah?

Afroaction was hurt because he got beat and the OP was hurt because of the rating. If the system allowed, we could all change the ratings back to fluffy 5 stars and everyone would be happy.

Difference being myself and Wi1bert won fair and square, within the rules and even with me adhering as soon as possible and for the rest of the game to his "take all your turns at once" request. He handed us ratings and tags that we did not deserve out of petty-minded spite and vindictiveness. One was a logical result of good play, the other an illogical result of someone who hates being beaten.

I even asked politely on his wall for an explanation a week after the games when the rating went public (because I am fairly new here still and I wanted to know if I'd legitimately committed some sort of act of rudeness without knowing) and had it deleted with no response, so it's not that he got angry and gave the ratings in the heat of the moment and then was willing to be reasonable once he'd calmed down. He's just giving them out because he's a... actually I don't want a forum ban so I'll keep my opinion on what he is to myself .

Anyways, FAMO as people say and I hope I never have the misfortune to encounter him again.

[afroaction]

As for crispybits and his partner, well i might of been a little harsh because i was extremely pissed for losing, you did not win fair and square, you guys won by pure luck, look at the dam dice stats alone in the 3 tourny games and don't tell me any different but then told me to go f*ck myself after i asked him to take his 3 turns at once, not take 2 then wait 18 hours to take the other one. That just put fuel on the fire there. Btw, he was a cook in the first game i played with him, only about 10 games under his belt, so i gave him 3 stars, and thought it was fair. After his shenanigans , deleeting what he posted On wall and his then cries foul to the mods?

BTW why do you care so much about the ratings I leave for other people? None of them voice any concern if they had a problem with it, then we can deal with it one on one?

It's like trying to judge Art, to some it's a master piece, to others they cannot see the value of it and think it's worthless.

[afroaction]

As for this game in particular :



afroaction wrote:I hate deadbeats, and consider that being a cheap tactic.



Game 11320973, the game was clearly lost, it was a speed game, there was no point in me dragging it out, it happens and not against any rules.

If larteaga had a problem with, It's up to him to ask me to remove his rating, NOT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE.

[*Pixar*]

afroaction has been warned for Ratings Abuse

Ratings
Crispybits - Unjustified Rating - 1-1-1
Wi1bert - Unjustified Rating - 1-1-1
Larteaga - Unjustified Rating - 1-1-1
Kjg21 - Unjustified Rating - Backstabber
IanG7 - Unjustified Rating - Backstabber
Fidias - Unjustified Rating - 1-1-1

I examined each of these ratings and did not find them justifiable. Some seemed to be related to AA's frustration with losing. And some (Backstabber) just make no sense at all.

Just because a player leaves hundreds of 5 star ratings, doesnt justify leaving bad ratings that show little or no logic justification.

To appeal this decision, click HERE

teaches you to foe me for no reason and rate me bad!

[crispybits]

Can you explain how anything is not "fair and square" about rolling dice? The only way that wouldn't be fair is if we rigged those dice somehow. Getting good dice against you isn't unfair it's just unlucky, but to humour you I pulled up the stats from our most recent 25 battles:

Crispybits
Assault +8% (3.71)
Defend -5% (3.37)
Overall +2% (3.54)

Afroaction
Assault -1% (3.48)
Defend +10% (3.76)
Overall +8% (3.70)

Seems you have more luck than me there no?

Again with the lies - I never said anything remotely close to "go f*** yourself" - I said I was waiting for my partner to answer a question and I would move as soon as I could. Simply and civilly. And then I synchronised my turns at the very next available opportunity as shown for anyone to check in the game logs. Please stop lying (I know that may be difficult for you judging by the constant stream of them in this thread). That includes about deleting wall posts - I have never deleted a wall post on anyone's wall but my own and I'm happy for any server logs to be published because I know that they will show that you're fabricating things (and not for the first time)

I don't care about the ratings you give to others really, I just needed extra evidence that you're a poor sport and a vindictive and spiteful human being because I read a few other ratings abuse reports before I posted and I could see that the mods here appreciate it when it's not just based on one game but a clear pattern is displayed of dishonest and abusive ratings. I know that rating will sit on my wall forever now, or maybe if you get permabanned it will get deleted. I'd watch out to make sure you give reasonable and honest ratings from now on because I might just check up on you again in 2-3 months time and file a repeat offender report, and again 2-3 months after that until they kick you off the site and all your ratings are deleted... (luckily I'll have that triple 1* to remind me and give me a handy link straight to your profile whenever I feel like doing that)

As for the deadbeat thing - so now it's OK to deadbeat, but only when it's you doing so? Anyone else who deadbeats must be using cheap tactics? Like maybe it's OK to win, but only if you're the one winning - anyone else wins and it's the dice, or cheap tactics, or some other excuse for your inability to beat them?

[wi1bert]

Maybe that's enough, can we lock the thread please?

[afroaction]

If you going to post dice stats, post the correct ones, but I'll teach you a little something about the about the Jamaica Map from someone who has played it 834 times, compare to yourself who's only played it 5 times, you simply do not have the experience to say that luck was not a factor in the 2 wins you had.

Here's my stats for Jamaica: +1474 496 from 832(60%)wins/lost 405 unique defeats Kill ratio Serial Killer (61%)477 relative rank Equalitarian (0.904)

Here's your stats:+36 3 from 5(60%)wins/lost 4 unique defeats Kill ratio Serial Killer (60%)3 relative rank

11340323 Let's analyze this shall we?

2012-07-06 17:47:45 - crispybits got bonus of 2 troops added to Holland - Blauvelt
2012-07-06 17:47:45 - crispybits got bonus of 2 troops added to Spain - Columbus
2012-07-06 17:47:45 - crispybits received 3 troops for 2 regions
2012-07-06 17:47:52 - crispybits deployed 1 troops on Holland - Blauvelt
2012-07-06 17:47:58 - crispybits deployed 2 troops on Spain - Columbus
2012-07-06 17:48:36 - crispybits assaulted Black River from Holland - Blauvelt and conquered it from neutral player with that move you a +5 man bonus + a card
2012-07-06 17:48:53 - crispybits ended the turn and got spoils
2012-07-06 19:16:41 - karel got bonus of 2 troops added to Calico Jack
2012-07-06 19:16:41 - karel got bonus of 2 troops added to Spain - Rivero
2012-07-06 19:16:41 - karel received 3 troops for 2 regions
2012-07-06 19:16:45 - karel deployed 3 troops on Calico Jack
2012-07-06 19:17:03 - karel ended the turnno card no bonus
2012-07-07 08:13:34 - wi1bert got bonus of 2 troops added to Spain - Esquivel
2012-07-07 08:13:34 - wi1bert got bonus of 2 troops added to Portugal - Mota
2012-07-07 08:13:34 - wi1bert received 3 troops for 2 regions
2012-07-07 08:13:41 - wi1bert deployed 1 troops on Spain - Esquivel
2012-07-07 08:13:43 - wi1bert deployed 1 troops on Portugal - Mota
2012-07-07 08:13:46 - wi1bert deployed 1 troops on Spain - Esquivel
2012-07-07 08:13:52 - wi1bert assaulted Seville Le Nueva from Spain - Esquivel and conquered it from neutral player
2012-07-07 08:14:01 - wi1bert assaulted Alligator Pond from Portugal - Mota and conquered it from neutral player
2012-07-07 08:14:14 - wi1bert ended the turn and got spoilsnot only did he get a card, but both his ports with a +7 man bonus
2012-07-07 09:13:29 - afroaction got bonus of 2 troops added to France - Hamlin
2012-07-07 09:13:29 - afroaction got bonus of 2 troops added to England - Morgan
2012-07-07 09:13:29 - afroaction received 3 troops for 2 regions
2012-07-07 09:13:34 - afroaction deployed 3 troops on England - Morgan
2012-07-07 09:13:53 - afroaction ended the turngreat I have a spoil and a +5 man bonus

Team Afro/Karel 8 man bonus Team Crispy/ wbert

Already You had huge advantage over us

2012-07-07 09:13:53 - Incrementing game to round 2

This where the game was lost

2012-07-07 22:09:43 - crispybits got bonus of 2 troops added to Holland - Blauvelt
2012-07-07 22:09:43 - crispybits got bonus of 2 troops added to Spain - Columbus
2012-07-07 22:09:43 - crispybits received 1 troops for holding 1 Gold Cob (Coin)
2012-07-07 22:09:43 - crispybits received 1 troops for holding Blauvelt and Black River (Home Port)
2012-07-07 22:09:43 - crispybits received 3 troops for 3 regions
2012-07-07 22:09:55 - crispybits deployed 5 troops on Seville Le Nueva
2012-07-07 22:10:17 - crispybits reinforced Holland - Blauvelt with 2 troops from Black River
2012-07-07 22:10:20 - crispybits reinforced Black River with 4 troops from Holland - Blauvelt
2012-07-07 22:10:29 - crispybits ended the turn
2012-07-07 22:46:55 - karel got bonus of 2 troops added to Calico Jack
2012-07-07 22:46:55 - karel got bonus of 2 troops added to Spain - Rivero
2012-07-07 22:46:55 - karel received 3 troops for 2 regions
2012-07-07 22:47:13 - karel deployed 3 troops on Calico Jack
2012-07-07 22:47:23 - karel assaulted Negril from Calico Jack and conquered it from neutral player
2012-07-07 22:47:37 - karel ended the turn and got spoils
2012-07-08 03:58:39 - wi1bert got bonus of 2 troops added to Spain - Esquivel
2012-07-08 03:58:39 - wi1bert got bonus of 2 troops added to Portugal - Mota
2012-07-08 03:58:39 - wi1bert received 2 troops for holding 2 Gold Cob (Coin)
2012-07-08 03:58:39 - wi1bert received 1 troops for holding Esquivel and Seville Le Nueva (Home Port)
2012-07-08 03:58:39 - wi1bert received 1 troops for holding Mota and Alligator Pond (Home Port)
2012-07-08 03:58:39 - wi1bert received 3 troops for 4 regions
2012-07-08 03:58:43 - wi1bert deployed 7 troops on Seville Le Nueva
2012-07-08 03:58:48 - wi1bert assaulted Pedro from Seville Le Nueva and conquered it from neutral player
2012-07-08 03:58:55 - wi1bert assaulted Linstead from Pedro and conquered it from neutral player
2012-07-08 03:59:02 - wi1bert assaulted St Mary from Linstead and conquered it from neutral player
2012-07-08 03:59:29 - wi1bert assaulted Port Maria from St Mary and conquered it from neutral player
2012-07-08 03:59:34 - wi1bert assaulted Spain - Rivero from Port Maria and conquered it from karel
2012-07-08 04:00:50 - wi1bert reinforced Alligator Pond with 2 troops from Portugal - Mota
2012-07-08 04:01:03 - wi1bert reinforced St Mary with 2 troops from Port Maria
2012-07-08 04:01:13 - wi1bert reinforced Seville Le Nueva with 2 troops from Port Maria
2012-07-08 04:01:17 - wi1bert reinforced Seville Le Nueva with 2 troops from Spain - Esquivel
2012-07-08 04:01:43 - wi1bert reinforced Seville Le Nueva with 2 troops from Port Maria
2012-07-08 04:01:57 - wi1bert reinforced St Mary with 2 troops from Port Maria
2012-07-08 04:02:07 - wi1bert ended the turn and got spoils

Everyone knows or should know once you lose a boat, it's nearly impossible to recover, espcially in the second round

When wibert took out Karel he had to kill 11 neutrals + 2 of Karel's men on Spain-Esquivel? What skill is needed to do that other then to hit auto all the way and get lucky Dice? Come be real here?

Wanna read the game chat?

2012-07-07 09:14:27 - afroaction [team]: crappy dice in 3 of the games this sucks
2012-07-07 22:48:02 - karel [team]: got one of them,hope next turn i can try get other port
2012-07-08 20:32:58 - afroaction [team]: we lost a port we're screwed already?

[afroaction]

now on because I might just check up on you again in 2-3 months time and file a repeat offender report, and again 2-3 months after that until they kick you off the site and all your ratings are deleted... (luckily I'll have that triple 1* to remind me and give me a handy link straight to your profile whenever I feel like doing that)

Bring it On! I will have the satisfaction of Knowing that your perfect Rating will be forever be tarnished by me, and you exposed yourself as a cry-baby.

[GeneralRisk]

Good job mods. Hopefully afroman learned a lesson, but I am almost certain, he never will.

[Dibbun]

Good job mods. Hopefully afroman learned a lesson, but I am almost certain, he never will.

[afroaction]

Good job mods. Hopefully afroman learned a lesson, but I am almost certain, he never will.

I really don't give a shit what you think GR. let's count how many low rating you left: 0 because you're a kiss ass a give out fluffy 5 stars like it's candy.

But yet your ratting is 4.6? hmmmmm maybe because you're so full of Bs and everyone knows it.

[GeneralRisk]

Good job mods. Hopefully afroman learned a lesson, but I am almost certain, he never will.

I really don't give a shit what you think GR. let's count how many low rating you left: 0 because you're a kiss ass a give out fluffy 5 stars like it's candy.

But yet your ratting is 4.6? hmmmmm maybe because you're so full of Bs and everyone knows it.

I was talking at the mods and as far as my 4.6 rating...I am a prick to most idiots and 4.6 isnt really all that bad considering I foe about 5 a day due to morons joining my dubs speed games and the occasional rating abuser, players, like yourself, of whom, rate me unjustly.

[afroaction]

I'd watch out to make sure you give reasonable and honest ratings from now on because I might just check up on you again in 2-3 months time and file a repeat offender report,

That's what I've been doing for the last 3 years, giving reasonable and honest ratings. Then again that's my personal opinion, judgement of the player, and there's nothing that will change that.

Not my Fault the rating system doesn't allow you post my reasoning for rating I've given, wish it did.

You had the opportunity to rate me as you felt fit, did i complain? no because you gave an honest opinion, and accepted as what is.

If I had 100 pages full of 1 stars, then you would of had a case against me of abuse, but i don't, you got upset because i broke your perfect record, and your ego was hurt, cried to mods without even giving me a chance to explain myself, went fishing real deep to find evidence, and fell short. Good try Kid! Maybe next time your personal vendeda against me will work next time, well I highly doubt that.


Btw stop calling me a liar, because you can erase your personal postings you made on anyone's wall, I never clean my wall, yet I can't find the 3 you did? You Know the important one when you told me to "go f*ck myself"

[GeneralRisk]

I'd watch out to make sure you give reasonable and honest ratings from now on because I might just check up on you again in 2-3 months time and file a repeat offender report,

That's what I've been doing for the last 3 years, giving reasonable and honest ratings. Then again that's my personal opinion, judgement of the player, and there's nothing that will change that.

Not my Fault the rating system doesn't allow you post my reasoning for rating I've given, wish it did.

You had the opportunity to rate me as you felt fit, did i complain? no because you gave an honest opinion, and accepted as what is.

If I had 100 pages full of 1 stars, then you would of had a case against me of abuse, but i don't, you got upset because i broke your perfect record, and your ego was hurt, cried to mods without even giving me a chance to explain myself, went fishing real deep to find evidence, and fell short. Good try Kid! Maybe next time your personal vendeda against me will work next time, well I highly doubt that.


Btw stop calling me a liar, because you can erase your personal postings you made on anyone's wall, I never clean my wall, yet I can't find the 3 you did? You Know the important one when you told me to "go f*ck myself"

Afroman, u not fooling anyone with your bs. Best to let it go and talk to your mom and dad and ask for guidance, to help u, on your long journey, down the road to truthfulness.

[afroaction]

again GR, do you have anything better to post other then trying to start a flaming war? Didn't think so? I guess you deserve 5 stars,and stroke your ego, and show everyone what an upstanding, extremely skilled person you are!

That will day!