CC Clan League 5 - Question going here

[Qwert]

Can I just make a few observations, based on my experience of the current CL4.

1. Glad to hear it is purely a league (no play-offs). It's crazy to have had the best performance in the Round 1 division or Round 2 division and then get knocked out in a play off.

2. Please consider giving a break from the admin for clans. CL4, although it is only 6 home games per week, has been a big headache.
CL4 = Get home games ready by Sunday. Then by Thursday get the teams sorted for the away games. Then 3 days later have another 6 home games ready...and so it goes. There is no rest for the poor guy doing the admin.
New system = 9 home games every 2 weeks. In between the clan will receive 9 away games to fill. Much easier to administrate and a much better break in between games

3. Don't even have draws/ties. Why have an even number of games when it's unnecessary? And it is very unfair to award 3pts for a win and 1pt for a tie if you do. The only reason FIFA adopted the 3pt/1pt system was to encourage attacking play - in football. Such an incentive cannot exist in a game of Risk. If you award 3pts/1pt then you have a crazy scenario where a clan loses 0-12 and wins 7-5 (7-17 win/loss) who would be ahead in the table of a clan who drew 6-6 & 6-6 (12-12 win/loss). This is simply wrong. Either adopt a 2pt/1pt win/draw system or, better still, do not have the chance of a draw/tie. I think if every 2 weeks a clan prepares 9 home games (3 x doubs, 3 x trips, 3 x quads) then we cannot have any ties. And in the weekends in between their home games they receive 9 away games from another clan. This would be great. TSM can meet IA once in, say, spring and again in winter - 9 games each time.

Thanks for considering this

lets try to answer
1.Yes, same thought, best Clan in entire League deserve to be winner withouth any playoffs, this are solved

2.I must say that im little confused with this,im not understand CL4 mention. Here you have 6 home games, when will this be send i still not build proposition for this ,look on first post scedule weeks,and you can insert dates of play or vacation. You have 14 teams- 26 play week and 10 week of vacation, who give you total 36 week of League duration, what week will be play and what week will be vacation,still not decide.

3.Draw/ties are importan thing in any League. 1 point for away teams are very valuable, so this will not be removed. For awarding points, well i dont have nothing against that win be awarded with 2 points instead 3, this is up to community to decide.
Again , home set its 6 games not 9 games.

[benga]

This is suggestion for CL5, where are you all getting that this is another league?
He said it couple of time he is here to hear from the whole clan world.

It would be somehow good not to take so much ranking in considertation,
but rather previous CL achievements.

[Chariot of Fire]

Can I just make a few observations, based on my experience of the current CL4.

1. Glad to hear it is purely a league (no play-offs). It's crazy to have had the best performance in the Round 1 division or Round 2 division and then get knocked out in a play off.

2. Please consider giving a break from the admin for clans. CL4, although it is only 6 home games per week, has been a big headache.
CL4 = Get home games ready by Sunday. Then by Thursday get the teams sorted for the away games. Then 3 days later have another 6 home games ready...and so it goes. There is no rest for the poor guy doing the admin.
New system = 9 home games every 2 weeks. In between the clan will receive 9 away games to fill. Much easier to administrate and a much better break in between games

3. Don't even have draws/ties. Why have an even number of games when it's unnecessary? And it is very unfair to award 3pts for a win and 1pt for a tie if you do. The only reason FIFA adopted the 3pt/1pt system was to encourage attacking play - in football. Such an incentive cannot exist in a game of Risk. If you award 3pts/1pt then you have a crazy scenario where a clan loses 0-12 and wins 7-5 (7-17 win/loss) who would be ahead in the table of a clan who drew 6-6 & 6-6 (12-12 win/loss). This is simply wrong. Either adopt a 2pt/1pt win/draw system or, better still, do not have the chance of a draw/tie. I think if every 2 weeks a clan prepares 9 home games (3 x doubs, 3 x trips, 3 x quads) then we cannot have any ties. And in the weekends in between their home games they receive 9 away games from another clan. This would be great. TSM can meet IA once in, say, spring and again in winter - 9 games each time.

Thanks for considering this

lets try to answer
1.Yes, same thought, best Clan in entire League deserve to be winner withouth any playoffs, this are solved

2.I must say that im little confused with this,im not understand CL4 mention. Here you have 6 home games, when will this be send i still not build proposition for this ,look on first post scedule weeks,and you can insert dates of play or vacation. You have 14 teams- 26 play week and 10 week of vacation, who give you total 36 week of League duration, what week will be play and what week will be vacation,still not decide.

3.Draw/ties are importan thing in any League. 1 point for away teams are very valuable, so this will not be removed. For awarding points, well i dont have nothing against that win be awarded with 2 points instead 3, this is up to community to decide.
Again , home set its 6 games not 9 games.

Thanks qwert.

My point about the home games every week is that it becomes so troublesome with the admin. It would be nice to know that there is a break from creating home games every other week throughout the year. These weeks in between would then be just for filling away games. So simple, and just like a proper league operates (home game one week, away game next week).

Re 6 or 9 games....from my experience 6 games is too small a sample size. I have heard lots of complaints that 6 games is not enough (yet it takes just as long to do the admin as 9 games, or 15 games, etc). If you adopt 9 games then you do not have any draws - surely a good thing - and you also reduce the amount of luck with drops & starts.

[Qwert]

Why not just suggest that the CLA Clan League moves towards this fixed division format in future seasons?

The main objection people raised against fixed divisions was that it creates issues if a high-ranked clan does not participate then wants to join in a later season - they would then have to play through the leagues or a clan in a higher division gets unfairly relegated.

This issue could be overcome if there is enough advance warning of clans not participating having to start in the bottom division, and enough clans competing. This could be achieved by making CL 5 a step towards fixed divisions, and CL 6 totally fixed divisions (i.e. no Phase 1 and promiotion /relegation system instead). Creating another rival league would not work as it would reduce the number of clans in both leagues and leave this problem.

Why not join up with the CLA CL organising team for CL 5 and beyond qwert?

If high ranked clan dont want to play , then we can not build some privilege rules, so that they can play in Premier league when they want. Its very good explane in first Page.
This second i dont understand quite with CL5 be fixed division, and CL6 totaly fixed division? no phase 1 and promotion / relegation system ?

Well from 24 may im again member of CLA, and i must say that im suprissed how this place are quite post dead.
Topic CL5 Discussion its open 4th january,and have only 69 post(every second day one post). and last whas on 13 may. Are people lost interest in CLA? I could join, but dont know where to speak?

by benga » Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:05 pm

This is suggestion for CL5, where are you all getting that this is another league?
He said it couple of time he is here to hear from the whole clan world.

It would be somehow good not to take so much ranking in considertation,
but rather previous CL achievements.

Well new thing for consideration and discussion- ranking or previous CL achivement (this second only can apply if this become succesor of CL).

Thanks qwert.

My point about the home games every week is that it becomes so troublesome with the admin. It would be nice to know that there is a break from creating home games every other week throughout the year. These weeks in between would then be just for filling away games. So simple, and just like a proper league operates (home game one week, away game next week).

Re 6 or 9 games....from my experience 6 games is too small a sample size. I have heard lots of complaints that 6 games is not enough (yet it takes just as long to do the admin as 9 games, or 15 games, etc). If you adopt 9 games then you do not have any draws - surely a good thing - and you also reduce the amount of luck with drops & starts.

Well , every second week to be playabile, then this League will last to long(26+26= 52 weeks) Creating 6 home games for one week,i think its not some troubles for admins, and still you have every 3 or 4 week one week vacation.
Like i say previously, give me your scedule look with dates , so we can discuse much better.

like i say one set need to be even-draw are importan result in league, i will not change this. MAybe 6 home games sound to little,but when you put total number -its give you 78 home and 78 away games=156 games. In all present competition ,you have 6 games home, so i dont see here problem to be same number of games. Ofcourse if community think that 6 are to small number,i could increase to 8 home games, and this give you 104 home and 104 away games=208 games. But its will stay even games not odd games.

[Chariot of Fire]

You misunderstand. Every week will be playable, just it will alternate between home games and away games as much as possible.

So if there are 14 clans in one league:
13 weeks = 13 x 8 home games
13 weeks = 13 x 8 away games
Total = 26 weeks (excluding any breaks)

[Teflon Kris]

If high ranked clan dont want to play , then we can not build some privilege rules, so that they can play in Premier league when they want.

If high-rank clans dont want to play then we end up with big style dummy-spitting* any dragging-on mega-arguments* a either way: either the high ranked clan spit dummies as they have to start in a low division, or, some other clan gets relegated instead and they spit their dummies. Added to this the clan world gets divided and joins either side in a big war-of-words about the whole issue.

Therefore - give more than 1 season's notice this will be happening and there's no reason for anyone to spit dummies - clans know that not participating affects them in future seasons.

In a real-world league teams cant drop-out and re-join in the top division. Imagine Juventus or Arsenal or Barcelona cant be bothered next season - they would then have to start probably about 8 divisions lower in their domestic league pyramid.

We currently have all-but-one of the high-ranked clans in the clan league - giving 1 season's notice about this system would mean that THOTA probably join CL 5 (to avoid starting in a lower league if they wish to join in a future season). Allowing clans to "play in Premier league when they want" means other clans might take a 'sabbatical'* and the whole potential status of the clan league is lost - make it hardcore* so everyone joins and the clan league has a big status.

Bigger divisions and no Phase 1 is more akin to RJ's original suggestion - the current system is the one voted-in by the CLA and is a slight adaptation of the josko/masli system that they didnt have time to implement. Neither RJ or myself designed the bais of the format.

This second i dont understand quite with CL5 be fixed division, and CL6 totaly fixed division? no phase 1 and promotion / relegation system ?

That was bad english by me - by fixed divisions I mean doing away with Phase 1 and having most teams stay in the same division and some are promoted or relegated (maybe even some play-offs) - so, fixed is the wrong word by me,there would be a promotion and relegation system instead.

I would suggest CL5 maybe has an interim system where clans are placed in divisions according to CL4 position and we have somekind of play-off situation which also incorporates new clans / clans that didnt compete in CL4 (e.g. THOTA have a play-off with some lower-placed clan in the top division to see if they join Premier Div or Div1)? Then the following season (CL 6), any new clans / clans that didnt compete in CL5 start in the bottom division?

This way we at least have some consistency between seasons - every year the CL changes and some people moan and some clans take ages to understand the format and rules. An interim season cuts down on all the bother this creates and maintains some sort of consistency. If things change every season then CL 5 might follow qwert's idea but CL 6 could then revert to something closer to the current system and this can go on constantly with changes annoying and confusing people every season.

We have chance to avoid that, and, more importantly, as we now have 39 clans and all-but-one of the top clans, we have chance to create a long-term high-status competition that all established clans want to, and do compete in (and dare not take a break), and recognise the importance of. Lets not waste the chance. The Clan League can gain huge status with everyone in it - nobody can again say "its not important because TheHolidaymenOfTheAdjournment weren't in it" or "its not a proper league". In fact, it will be said that "you aren't a proper clan if you're not in the league".

Well from 24 may im again member of CLA, and i must say that im suprissed how this place are quite post dead.
Topic CL5 Discussion its open 4th january,and have only 69 post(every second day one post). and last whas on 13 may. Are people lost interest in CLA? I could join, but dont know where to speak?

Well, I was thinking of waiting untilPhase 2 is complete before getting really involved there myself. The plan was to firstly look at the overall format for CL5, then look at details and rules.




* Terminological Eplanations:

• Dummy-spitting = childish reactions such as abusing someone that the person does not agree with, threatening to withdraw from a competition, foe-ing people or any other total over-reaction.
  
  
• Mega-argument = Minor dispute / discussion that ends-up taking-up several pages of a thread (often with reference to philosophical principles etc). Sometimes spills-over into other threads.
  
  
• Sabbatical = A one-year break from activity.
  
  
• Hardcore = Strict
  
  
• Interim = A half-way stage or step in-between two things.

[Qwert]

You misunderstand. Every week will be playable, just it will alternate between home games and away games as much as possible.

So if there are 14 clans in one league:
13 weeks = 13 x 8 home games
13 weeks = 13 x 8 away games
Total = 26 weeks (excluding any breaks)

Hmm, i dont see what its problem here? Everything its same like in real leagues.
If you for example play first Round against Empire, on your Home games, then in round 14 you will play away against Empire.
Its this what you reffere?

Its look that we speak same, we have 26 weeks, but we will have add free weeks for holidays, or some celebrations-like NEw years,or others.

Dj teflon i need to figure first your post,then i will repply. You dont answer on last sentence.

Well from 24 may im again member of CLA, and i must say that im suprissed how this place are quite post dead.
Topic CL5 Discussion its open 4th january,and have only 69 post(every second day one post). and last whas on 13 may. Are people lost interest in CLA? I could join, but dont know where to speak?

[Qwert]

If high ranked clan dont want to play , then we can not build some privilege rules, so that they can play in Premier league when they want.

If high-rank clans dont want to play then we end up with big style dummy-spitting* any dragging-on mega-arguments* a either way: either the high ranked clan spit dummies as they have to start in a low division, or, some other clan gets relegated instead and they spit their dummies. Added to this the clan world gets divided and joins either side in a big war-of-words about the whole issue.

Therefore - give more than 1 season's notice this will be happening and there's no reason for anyone to spit dummies - clans know that not participating affects them in future seasons.

In a real-world league teams cant drop-out and re-join in the top division. Imagine Juventus or Arsenal or Barcelona cant be bothered next season - they would then have to start probably about 8 divisions lower in their domestic league pyramid.

We currently have all-but-one of the high-ranked clans in the clan league - giving 1 season's notice about this system would mean that THOTA probably join CL 5 (to avoid starting in a lower league if they wish to join in a future season). Allowing clans to "play in Premier league when they want" means other clans might take a 'sabbatical'* and the whole potential status of the clan league is lost - make it hardcore* so everyone joins and the clan league has a big status.

Bigger divisions and no Phase 1 is more akin to RJ's original suggestion - the current system is the one voted-in by the CLA and is a slight adaptation of the josko/masli system that they didnt have time to implement. Neither RJ or myself designed the bais of the format.

This second i dont understand quite with CL5 be fixed division, and CL6 totaly fixed division? no phase 1 and promotion / relegation system ?

That was bad english by me - by fixed divisions I mean doing away with Phase 1 and having most teams stay in the same division and some are promoted or relegated (maybe even some play-offs) - so, fixed is the wrong word by me,there would be a promotion and relegation system instead.

I would suggest CL5 maybe has an interim system where clans are placed in divisions according to CL4 position and we have somekind of play-off situation which also incorporates new clans / clans that didnt compete in CL4 (e.g. THOTA have a play-off with some lower-placed clan in the top division to see if they join Premier Div or Div1)? Then the following season (CL 6), any new clans / clans that didnt compete in CL5 start in the bottom division?

This way we at least have some consistency between seasons - every year the CL changes and some people moan and some clans take ages to understand the format and rules. An interim season cuts down on all the bother this creates and maintains some sort of consistency. If things change every season then CL 5 might follow qwert's idea but CL 6 could then revert to something closer to the current system and this can go on constantly with changes annoying and confusing people every season.

We have chance to avoid that, and, more importantly, as we now have 39 clans and all-but-one of the top clans, we have chance to create a long-term high-status competition that all established clans want to, and do compete in (and dare not take a break), and recognise the importance of. Lets not waste the chance. The Clan League can gain huge status with everyone in it - nobody can again say "its not important because TheHolidaymenOfTheAdjournment weren't in it" or "its not a proper league". In fact, it will be said that "you aren't a proper clan if you're not in the league".

Well from 24 may im again member of CLA, and i must say that im suprissed how this place are quite post dead.
Topic CL5 Discussion its open 4th january,and have only 69 post(every second day one post). and last whas on 13 may. Are people lost interest in CLA? I could join, but dont know where to speak?

Well, I was thinking of waiting untilPhase 2 is complete before getting really involved there myself. The plan was to firstly look at the overall format for CL5, then look at details and rules.




* Terminological Eplanations:

• Dummy-spitting = childish reactions such as abusing someone that the person does not agree with, threatening to withdraw from a competition, foe-ing people or any other total over-reaction.
  
  
• Mega-argument = Minor dispute / discussion that ends-up taking-up several pages of a thread (often with reference to philosophical principles etc). Sometimes spills-over into other threads.
  
  
• Sabbatical = A one-year break from activity.
  
  
• Hardcore = Strict
  
  
• Interim = A half-way stage or step in-between two things.

i think that i recognise two issue here
First-Clan who before start of league,refuse Invitation to play in League
Second-Clan who want to leave League after start
--------------------------------------------------------------
Rule will be build with help of community ,i myself have some in mind, still not on paper.
Concern abouth sabbatical clans, well you need to create and build strict and fair rules, because i realy dont see how can some clan ,one year play in league,and next year to ask to be on sabbatical status, this thing not exist nowhere.
Every clan will get special invitation to play in League (premier or First-or qualification) according to rating,or according to CL results( this second depend on status of this LEague). If any clan first year dont want to play in League,and all other want to play, then even with ,how you say "1 season's notice", you will have problem to explane to other clan who play all season,and manage to stay in Premier LEague, that he need to be relegated,only because High ranked clan ,wake up from sabbatical,and now want to play in Premier League.
When you have rules same for everybody,then nobody can complain that some have privileges,and some dont have privileges.

Its this answer you want from your post?

[Qwert]

well im apply COF sugestions(for now), and increase number of home games to 8.
Also this increase number of maps to be use to 104.

[uckuki]

suggestions regarding limits on settings:

maybe we can have no limit on number of games regarding unlimited and nuclear spoils?
not many clans will use them, and for all practical purposes other clans should show some
versatility in playing settings other than what they usually play. after a while we'll probably
forget we ever had limitations and realize these are regular settings like any other. every
bogeyman is scary until you poke him with a stick and realize it's just a soap bubble.

the issue with the trench is length of games. I don't see the problem in the number of games
as much as in map size. the only limit should be size of the map. e.g. trench can only be used
on maps with X number of terrs, X being somewhere between 35-40 terrs, maybe few more or less.
that limit should leave open a decent number of small and medium sized maps to chose from and
help avoid a problem of getting stuck for a long time playing large maps.

[WPBRJ]

Ok maybe I can break this down so you can understand

Well WPBRJ, i dont say your name not once, and you still try to make confusion.

What are you talking about? I asked legitimate questions there was no confusion

Im more for real leagues, and im whas against what you call Leagues(small groups of teams).

ok I understand this but what makes you think your format is more real than mine? Yes you grew up on soccer so yes in soccer there are no play offs and that is what YOU believe is right. This is not the case here in America we believe there should be a play off. I will ask the question again why do you think your system is more REAL than mine?

In our System ofcourse its better mixed ,because your So call "League" are not league, because have so little teams in Group.

ok again your stating a opinion not a fact I have to ask same question. Why do you think your system as you call it is better?

League is a term commonly used to describe a group of sports teams or individual athletes that compete against each other in a specific sport. At its simplest, it may be a local group of amateur athletes who form teams among themselves and compete on weekends; at its most complex, it can be an international professional league making large amounts of money and involving dozens of teams and thousands of players.

Saying this I will say it again why do you keep saying your system is a REAL or better league or is more real or better than the American system?




All CL from begining are not League Competition format,and you know that.

I have no clue what you are talking about here

Ofcourse that in this system are better to be mixed,because with so little teams in group, there its no chance to advance nowhere. And every years its created more complicated and long competition. Its hard to explane to you,because you whas very hostile in CLA,when we try to talk with you.

again your saying your system is better but that is nothing more than your opinion and that’s all it is. You say with so little teams there’s no room for advancement well I guess you really did not read what I proposed it’s almost identical. your divisions you have 3, I had 4 maybe 5, mine was 2 move up and 2 move down yours is 3 move up and 3 move down. Not much difference in my eyes. I even said we could go up from 8 team divisions to 10 maybe depending on how man signed up.

As for what happened in the CLA forum why don’t you tell the truth you posted a bunch of nothing and wanted someone else to do the work for you. You put zero thought into your suggestions and expected us to just use them and what ever happened there really has nothing to do with what is going on here and now. I asked and posted well thought out questions for you to answer and you are not answering those questions.

I hope that you not come here to be hostile again,and to start some fight here,because i try to be frendly and to comunicate normal with other people.

I was not hostile in any way shap or form you’re the only one bringing up old stuf not me I asked legit questions.

Im in mythology clan, and if we start play in this LEague,we will still play in Division 2,not Premier Division, so i dont know what you mean with this .

I mean you stated in the CLA and I am quoting you so you cant say you dint say it

Wbprj, i dont understand how you dont see point of equal league. I know that mine clan, with yours setting will move in division D(last Division) and we will have very low ranked clans to play(example Welsh Dragons ,Order 66,LOTZ,) now its these excitement for our clan to play , where is here chalenge? Look Champion league in Footbal, what will hepend if they create groups,where all stronger are in one group,and all weaker in second group, these will be bad competition.Every clan here want to have some great chalenges against best clans, but your format eliminate that. These is only frendly sugestion, and i hope that you will apply something of these sugestions. We all here have interest to create some great tournament.

Ok these were your words and these words are against everything that you have done in this thread with this format!!!!!! But at the time you said this it was my format and the only format (which is almost identical to this one) at the time that was on the table.

I dont hate anything what you sugested in your concept, and people in CLA know who whas hostile, and this is not me.

never said you were hostile and yes I did have to stat the truth at time and yes the truth does hurt at times. But that really has nothing to do with what is going on here and today I live in the present I don’t live in the past move on come up with some new material.

And i dont have any involvment in cancel of ICL, so again i dont know what you connect this two . You have Organisers of ICL, and you can ask hem if you interesting .

I never said you had involve ment with the ICL I said when Icepack started to get involved with this topic and a week later he canceled the ICL then this topic took off and there was double the action going on.

If people see this like some better version of CL, then i dont have nothing against that this become new official CL.

this is fine I have nothing against a democratic solution but as soon as you say it will not have playoff not matter what this is no longer a democratic solution!!

I dont know what can heppend in 3-6 month, but i hope that togedher with community build universal rules , who will be accepted for everybody,
I think you’re delusional if you think for 1 minute that you will get everyone together and unified to agree on one format with a set of rules. Let me give you some advice it will never happen you will always have the bad eggs in the group and we all know who they are. You will always have to make decisions before during and after that there will always be scrutinized by people that did not like your decision whether you did it with best interests of league. This is not a perfect world and that would be the only way you ever get everyone on the same page in a perfect world.

and then everybody can be in position to run this event.

I’ll ask again are you planning on running this or are you just throwing ideas out for someone else to pick up and run with. If this is for someone else to run I think you’re wasting everyone’s time!

[lynch5762]

I guess this will sound silly... but why not just have the members of CLA vote on the certain areas were people can't seem to agree? It could be subject to change (or a new vote) before every season but I really think that there needs to be just one official league period.

[Qwert]

WPBRJ, i realy dont know what you want,

never said you were hostile and yes I did have to stat the truth at time and yes the truth does hurt at times. But that really has nothing to do with what is going on here and today I live in the present I don’t live in the past move on come up with some new material.

You live in present, but you start to go on past?
I dont like playoffs, because this is unfair for teams who play best, and who can lost only 1 game and instead to be winner, they become loser. This is international forum and im from Europe, and for me its best LEAGUE withouth playoffs,where winner are team with most points earned, so i dont want to investigate how American League work. Simple rules,simple competition,simple way to be winner, this is what its need. I hope that i answer to your question.
And second-i dont know what can heppend for 3 or 6 month, if i be alive ,then i will run this event , with some help from people who will want to help me.
=========================

uckuki on Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:21 pm

suggestions regarding limits on settings:

maybe we can have no limit on number of games regarding unlimited and nuclear spoils?
not many clans will use them, and for all practical purposes other clans should show some
versatility in playing settings other than what they usually play. after a while we'll probably
forget we ever had limitations and realize these are regular settings like any other. every
bogeyman is scary until you poke him with a stick and realize it's just a soap bubble.

the issue with the trench is length of games. I don't see the problem in the number of games
as much as in map size. the only limit should be size of the map. e.g. trench can only be used
on maps with X number of terrs, X being somewhere between 35-40 terrs, maybe few more or less.
that limit should leave open a decent number of small and medium sized maps to chose from and
help avoid a problem of getting stuck for a long time playing large maps.

ok, you propose no limitation on unlimited forts and nuclear(free choice of home team), and round limitation on trench option for maps who have above 35-40 territories?
Well i dont have nothing against this, anyone have some oppinion?

[uckuki]

ok, you propose no limitation on unlimited forts and nuclear(free choice of home team), and round limitation on trench option for maps who have above 35-40 territories?
Well i dont have nothing against this, anyone have some oppinion?

yes, no limits on unlimited and nuclear. I don't think it will be a problem at all.

for trench I propose 20 round limit. in that case maybe all maps can be allowed since delay
won't be an issue? large maps can be played to round limit and strategy adjusted
accordingly.

[Crazyirishman]

ok, you propose no limitation on unlimited forts and nuclear(free choice of home team), and round limitation on trench option for maps who have above 35-40 territories?
Well i dont have nothing against this, anyone have some oppinion?

yes, no limits on unlimited and nuclear. I don't think it will be a problem at all.

for trench I propose 20 round limit. in that case maybe all maps can be allowed since delay
won't be an issue? large maps can be played to round limit and strategy adjusted
accordingly.

this is along the lines of what I was was hoping for with trench, round limits will cap everything and the "it'll drag on forever" argument doesn't matter any more. I personally feel that all settings should be fair game except for freestyle.

[Chariot of Fire]

If a different map is to be used for each game (I believe this is the proposal, which is a good one) then it would also follow that we try and encompass all the different settings too, e.g. 50% fog 50% sunny; 25% each of Nuke, NS, FR & Esc; etc. (and maybe 25% ceiling on Trench games, i.e. 2 out of 8 home games may be Trench).

Half the fun of the next league would be each clan sitting down and working through all the available maps and allocating settings to them and pre-planning their season's campaign.

[deantursx]

I completely agree that trench and unlimited should be worked in, but I think people are forgetting the problem with nukes in that it often causes the optimal strategy to be to skip a turn. This causes all sorts of problems...

[Chariot of Fire]

Not if you simply allow turn skipping or timing out (because neither of these things can be proven to be done with intent so it's impossible to enforce). If a player wishes to skip a turn or timeout in a nuke game then it should be his or her prerogative - treated just like a turn in no spoils - and the penalty to that player is of course an inability to fort and a missed card opportunity, so it's really not a great advantage to play it this way.

[angola]

Not if you simply allow turn skipping or timing out (because neither of these things can be proven to be done with intent so it's impossible to enforce). If a player wishes to skip a turn or timeout in a nuke game then it should be his or her prerogative - treated just like a turn in no spoils - and the penalty to that player is of course an inability to fort and a missed card opportunity, so it's really not a great advantage to play it this way.

In Nukes timing out is absolutely a great advantage to play that way. That is a basic strategy.

In escalating it is pretty dumb, but can be advantageous at certain times. I think timing out should come with rules against, like the CL4 has.

[Chariot of Fire]

Not if you simply allow turn skipping or timing out (because neither of these things can be proven to be done with intent so it's impossible to enforce). If a player wishes to skip a turn or timeout in a nuke game then it should be his or her prerogative - treated just like a turn in no spoils - and the penalty to that player is of course an inability to fort and a missed card opportunity, so it's really not a great advantage to play it this way.

In Nukes timing out is absolutely a great advantage to play that way. That is a basic strategy.

In escalating it is pretty dumb, but can be advantageous at certain times. I think timing out should come with rules against, like the CL4 has.

So you are prepared to penalise someone for losing his internet connection? And if so, just what manner of penalty would be written in the rules?

As I say.....too hard to prove and too difficult to come up with any fair punitive measure.

And in angola's own words re timing out in nukes: "That is a basic strategy"

We are playing a strategy game after all.

[angola]

Not if you simply allow turn skipping or timing out (because neither of these things can be proven to be done with intent so it's impossible to enforce). If a player wishes to skip a turn or timeout in a nuke game then it should be his or her prerogative - treated just like a turn in no spoils - and the penalty to that player is of course an inability to fort and a missed card opportunity, so it's really not a great advantage to play it this way.

In Nukes timing out is absolutely a great advantage to play that way. That is a basic strategy.

In escalating it is pretty dumb, but can be advantageous at certain times. I think timing out should come with rules against, like the CL4 has.

So you are prepared to penalise someone for losing his internet connection? And if so, just what manner of penalty would be written in the rules?

As I say.....too hard to prove and too difficult to come up with any fair punitive measure.

And in angola's own words re timing out in nukes: "That is a basic strategy"

We are playing a strategy game after all.

I have timed out in the past, and it made me uncomfortable. Yet I did it.

I own up to that.

That doesn't make it right going forward.

I hope this league goes in front of the CLA, so I can vote that the rules for timing out from CLA4 goes into effect for this league as well.

[Qwert]

i read what you write above,and for now i will put that Unlimited Forts,nuclear cards and Trench be withouth any limitation, this is for now.
Personaly oppinion its that any clan can decide what settings and maps are best for hes home maps, and if someone want to play all 104 home games on trench, then i dont have nothing against this. Only possible problem its on big maps ,with no spoil settings, and this game could be potential long games.
For this could help Game finder statistic, and could give answer how long last trench games withouth round limitation in doubles,triple and quads.
=========================
Well i work a little on League scedule,its proposed,so everything can change.
Consider that we play round robin system,this mean that one clan will one week create hes home games,and next week will only join away games,so this mean that every two week one clan will create home games.

possible scedule

Week 1-[21 september]
Week 2-[29 september]
Week 3-[vacation]
Week 4-[12 october]
Week 5-[21 october]
Week 6-[30 october]
Week 7-[vacation]
Week 15 november]
Week 9-[23 november]
Week 10-[1 december]
Week 11-[vacation]
Week 12-[14 december]
Week 13-[21 december]
Week 14-[vacation]
Week 15-[vacation]
Week 16-[10 january]
Week 17-[20 january]
Week 18-[27 january]
Week 19-[vacation]
Week 20-[10 february]
Week 21-[17 february]
Week 22-[24 february]
Week 23-[vacation]
Week 24-[16 march]
Week 25-[23 march]
Week 26-[30 march]
Week 27-[vacation]
Week 28-[14 april]
Week 29-[21 april]
Week 30-[28 april]
Week 31-[vacation]
Week 32-[11 may]
Week 33-[19 may]
Week 34-[vacation]
Week 35-[1 june]
Week 36-[15 june]

[Chariot of Fire]

and if someone want to play all 104 home games on trench, then i dont have nothing against this.

I would, and I expect all my fellow clan members would too, which may prompt us to withdraw.

You can't have a clan choosing 100% trench, that's just crackers.

'Trench League', by qwert.

Suddenly I am no longer enthused by qwert's ideas & ability.

[Qwert]

and if someone want to play all 104 home games on trench, then i dont have nothing against this.

I would, and I expect all my fellow clan members would too, which may prompt us to withdraw.

You can't have a clan choosing 100% trench, that's just crackers.

'Trench League', by qwert.

Suddenly I am no longer enthused by qwert's ideas & ability.

. I dont have any strict oppinion abouth Trench, so i waith more sugestions abouth this. Some people say no limitation, some says only round limitation, and you say

by Chariot of Fire » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:58 am

If a different map is to be used for each game (I believe this is the proposal, which is a good one) then it would also follow that we try and encompass all the different settings too, e.g. 50% fog 50% sunny; 25% each of Nuke, NS, FR & Esc; etc. (and maybe 25% ceiling on Trench games, i.e. 2 out of 8 home games may be Trench).

Half the fun of the next league would be each clan sitting down and working through all the available maps and allocating settings to them and pre-planning their season's campaign.

Now what its wrong with this? We need to agree what settings are free of any limitation, and not to put all settings on some kind of limitation.
If you read mine post abouth this i give mine proposition:

Settings

No Freestyle
No Speed
No Manual
Nuclear is allowed with a limit of 10 games total for home games
trench Warfare is allowed with a limit of 10 games total for home games
Unlimited is allowed with a limit of 10 games total for home games

All game need to be --automatic--sequenched-round lenght 24 hours
Escalating-no limit for use
No Spoils-no limit for use
Flat RAte-no limit for use
Chained-no limit for use
adjacent-no limit for use
Fog of war-no limit for use

[Qwert]

Brake rules:

1.Use same map more then once
2.In one round play more then 3 game
3.Use nuclear settings more then its limited
4.Use trench settings more then its limited
5.Use Unlimited fort more then its limited


Ok,if i miss something then you add more, also give your oppinion what will be penalty.