freakns-offansive avatar [closed]

[Nola_Lifer]

How is this offensive? Seems like a power trip. What is offensive is what the Nazi's did, not their symbol. If you turn it around, it is a good luck symbol.

[Chariot of Fire]

Aaagghh my eyes, my eyes.

D-Day map, top left corner.

(oh, and apparently this isn't offensive: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=151259)

[Leehar]

I think this is the one thing that lack has stepped out and said he didn't want nazi symbols of any kind on the site, which is why it's been disallowed.

I remember a discussion about it going on in the foundry as well about it should be ok if it's not being glorified etc etc, but Lack was pretty clear I think that he would prefer it to not be on the site in any context, and I think this is one of those things where you just need to respect his wishes.

However, if you can hunt him down and delve into a discussion with him on why his stance is wrong then feel free to do so, but I think the mods are just following the ruling from upon high here...

PS: This is just my vague recollections from a foundry topic in ages past, so I apologise if my sources were wrong and this isn't the case, so please don't hold me as an expert on this

[Lindax]

This is clearly a waste of time and space, if the swastika is banned, what's next? the confederate flag? History is written by the winners. the jolly roger couldn't be far behind, it wasn't exactly a symbol of the establishment. if the German symbol is banned, i'd also push for the rising sun (Japanese symbol) to be banned as well. the Japanese were brutal as well, and killed many innocent's in Asia.
Forrest Gump: Now when I was a baby, Mama named me after the great Civil War hero General Nathan Bedford Forrest. She said we was related to him in some way. What he did was he started up this club called the Ku Klux Klan. from the script of Forrest Gump, the Political correct police could go after that one too.
The Brethren, aren't allowed to show nipples on mermaids,? I didn't know there were mermaids without nipples.

The swastika is not even a German symbol:

Earliest archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates back to the Indus Valley Civilization of Ancient India as well as Classical Antiquity. Swastikas have also been used in other various ancient civilizations around the world. It remains widely used in Indian religions, specifically in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, primarily as a tantric symbol to evoke 'shakti' or the sacred symbol of auspiciousness. The swastika is also a Chinese character used in East Asia representing eternity and Buddhism.

There is even a town in Canada with the name Swastika.

Lx

[General Brock II]

This is clearly a waste of time and space, if the swastika is banned, what's next? the confederate flag? History is written by the winners. the jolly roger couldn't be far behind, it wasn't exactly a symbol of the establishment. if the German symbol is banned, i'd also push for the rising sun (Japanese symbol) to be banned as well. the Japanese were brutal as well, and killed many innocent's in Asia.
Forrest Gump: Now when I was a baby, Mama named me after the great Civil War hero General Nathan Bedford Forrest. She said we was related to him in some way. What he did was he started up this club called the Ku Klux Klan. from the script of Forrest Gump, the Political correct police could go after that one too.
The Brethren, aren't allowed to show nipples on mermaids,? I didn't know there were mermaids without nipples.

The swastika is not even a German symbol:

Earliest archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates back to the Indus Valley Civilization of Ancient India as well as Classical Antiquity. Swastikas have also been used in other various ancient civilizations around the world. It remains widely used in Indian religions, specifically in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, primarily as a tantric symbol to evoke 'shakti' or the sacred symbol of auspiciousness. The swastika is also a Chinese character used in East Asia representing eternity and Buddhism.

There is even a town in Canada with the name Swastika.

Lx

Indeed, the Swastika is Sanskrit and related to the Hindu religion. It was a very common device, used by the Finnish, Native Americans, Anglo-Saxons, Irish, Swedish and Latvians. Even pre-WWII pilots wore it for good luck.

Now, of course, freakns is using it as the Nazi symbol, which isn't debatable, but he is using it for a purpose that is suitable to all kinds - the degradation and defeat of the evil that it represents.

[sniffie]

nice discussion here, should we ban all the swastika's from this site, cause. If I have it in my avatar people might say I agree with the Nazi's (which of course is rarely true) If I play a map with a swastika on it, nobody even notices. That's the one and only ugly truth.
People tend to forget that a swastika is a Hindu symbol representing peace, all the four corners stand for something like earth, heaven, sorry but I can't recall the other 2.

Remove it, and Freakns feels offended, remove it not and other people feel offended, I don't think there is truly right and wrong here, maybe only the lesser of 2 evils.

sniffie

[freakns]

remove it not and other people feel offended

id like for those other ppl to show up, give me reasonable explanation why is burning down of nazi symbol offensive, and i will remove my avatar, regardless of what mods decide. i really have no intention of creating controversy here, but this avatar is nothing but anti-nazi, which is something every human should support imo. however, so far instead of explanation i got short history lesson about war in Europe, i got somehow accused of being pro-nazi(im giving this one pass. due to my bad english he might have got wrong impression, cause noone sane would say such a thing without actual proof) and lastly ive been implied im goona do what ive been told to do, or he will force me to do it. neither of those 3 things i do not like.

[Sniper08]

avatars are so small that they can be misinterupted by people. like before this topic i never took notice of freakens avatar even though i seen him post in the forums. its kinda hard to see the swastika burning, i didnt even know it was burning until freak said it was. i think BG got locked into a decision and wont back down even though its against common sense.

the nazis stole many symbols,they also used the eagle symbol that the romans had used in their legions so should all eagle symbols be banned aswell along with the Clan Legions Sigs? Come on people this is common sense stuff.

its anti nazi so why be forced to take it down, only pro nazi symbols should be taken down.

[burninchaoz]

avatars are so small that they can be misinterupted by people. like before this topic i never took notice of freakens avatar even though i seen him post in the forums. its kinda hard to see the swastika burning, i didnt even know it was burning until freak said it was. i think BG got locked into a decision and wont back down even though its against common sense.

the nazis stole many symbols,they also used the eagle symbol that the romans had used in their legions so should all eagle symbols be banned aswell along with the Clan Legions Sigs? Come on people this is common sense stuff.

its anti nazi so why be forced to take it down, only pro nazi symbols should be taken down.

Not even pro Nazi sylbols should be taken down, it takes a lot of nerve, to suggest in a war game, you can't represent great warriors, and like them or not the Nazi's were great warriors, ask any of the many Allied soldiers in the graves through out Europe and Arlington National Cementary.

[redhawk92]

avatars are so small that they can be misinterupted by people. like before this topic i never took notice of freakens avatar even though i seen him post in the forums. its kinda hard to see the swastika burning, i didnt even know it was burning until freak said it was. i think BG got locked into a decision and wont back down even though its against common sense.

the nazis stole many symbols,they also used the eagle symbol that the romans had used in their legions so should all eagle symbols be banned aswell along with the Clan Legions Sigs? Come on people this is common sense stuff.

its anti nazi so why be forced to take it down, only pro nazi symbols should be taken down.

Not even pro Nazi sylbols should be taken down, it takes a lot of nerve, to suggest in a war game, you can't represent great warriors, and like them or not the Nazi's were great warriors, ask any of the many Allied soldiers in the graves through out Europe and Arlington National Cementary.

+1

[redhawk92]

This is clearly a waste of time and space, if the swastika is banned, what's next? the confederate flag? History is written by the winners. the jolly roger couldn't be far behind, it wasn't exactly a symbol of the establishment. if the German symbol is banned, i'd also push for the rising sun (Japanese symbol) to be banned as well. the Japanese were brutal as well, and killed many innocent's in Asia.
Forrest Gump: Now when I was a baby, Mama named me after the great Civil War hero General Nathan Bedford Forrest. She said we was related to him in some way. What he did was he started up this club called the Ku Klux Klan. from the script of Forrest Gump, the Political correct police could go after that one too.
The Brethren, aren't allowed to show nipples on mermaids,? I didn't know there were mermaids without nipples.

+1

[Chariot of Fire]

avatars are so small that they can be misinterupted by people. like before this topic i never took notice of freakens avatar even though i seen him post in the forums. its kinda hard to see the swastika burning, i didnt even know it was burning until freak said it was. i think BG got locked into a decision and wont back down even though its against common sense.

the nazis stole many symbols,they also used the eagle symbol that the romans had used in their legions so should all eagle symbols be banned aswell along with the Clan Legions Sigs? Come on people this is common sense stuff.

its anti nazi so why be forced to take it down, only pro nazi symbols should be taken down.

Not even pro Nazi sylbols should be taken down, it takes a lot of nerve, to suggest in a war game, you can't represent great warriors, and like them or not the Nazi's were great warriors, ask any of the many Allied soldiers in the graves through out Europe and Arlington National Cementary.

Let's not confuse the Wehrmacht with the Nazi party. Worlds apart

[rhp 1]

ridiculous to consider forcing him to take it down, even if it was pro-nazi let alone the fact that it's anti-nazi... the hardest thing to do when you hold freedom in highest regard, is defend the rights and views of a person who's views make you sick to your stomach...

that said.. this is a privately owned website, and if they deem that it could be offensive to some, they obviously have the right to force you to take it down... that decision would be sad and short-sighted, but obviously well within their rights and power to do...

[Vid_FISO]

As a moderator of another website maybe my viewpoint has value here, maybe not, but I'll say may piece anyway.

There is an inherent danger when making a judgement call based on a feeling that some people MAY be offended by something, especially when your own knowledge/ experience of the issue is minimal (no disrespect to the moderator involved but both your age and location lead me to believe that you probably have neither). Consider action when people (plural) are clearly offended - and their arguments need to be coherent to act and not based on your own thoughts on the matter in hand.

No idea how you work things here, but given the number of registered members (although the number of active members visiting the forums is probably a fraction of that number) your moderator team is too small with too big of a N American bias to understand and deal objectively and effectively with a global membership.

One of the most difficult tasks for a moderator is to be objective in all things, if you can't be then discuss it with your fellow moderators and/ or pass it on to one of them to deal with if you know that your own viewpoint is steering your actions. If your team does not possess the knowledge and experience to deal with some matters then I'm sure that there are plenty of long standing members that do possess the necessary insight to recruit from.

[eddie2]

well i will jump in and back up some moderators they do contact members from the uk when certain phrases are used. but the symbol was site banned and leehar was correct earlier, the maps that contain this are probarly a oversite if this symbol is allowed to stay then players in the uk should be allowed to freely use the word fa**ot. if 2 coloured people use the word ni**r 2 each other then that should be allowed as it is used between that race freely between themselves in there own community, along with many other phrases. Just a thought but players have been banned images have been removed before that contain the image.. also what freakens is doing just now is disrespect of a order from a site manager he should of removed the image before this thread was started as of this min it is still availible to view on his profile, he was told to remove it so should of then started this convo.

[rhp 1]

As a moderator of another website maybe my viewpoint has value here, maybe not, but I'll say may piece anyway.

There is an inherent danger when making a judgement call based on a feeling that some people MAY be offended by something, especially when your own knowledge/ experience of the issue is minimal (no disrespect to the moderator involved but both your age and location lead me to believe that you probably have neither). Consider action when people (plural) are clearly offended - and their arguments need to be coherent to act and not based on your own thoughts on the matter in hand.

No idea how you work things here, but given the number of registered members (although the number of active members visiting the forums is probably a fraction of that number) your moderator team is too small with too big of a N American bias to understand and deal objectively and effectively with a global membership.

One of the most difficult tasks for a moderator is to be objective in all things, if you can't be then discuss it with your fellow moderators and/ or pass it on to one of them to deal with if you know that your own viewpoint is steering your actions. If your team does not possess the knowledge and experience to deal with some matters then I'm sure that there are plenty of long standing members that do possess the necessary insight to recruit from.

fair dialogue here... but misses the point a bit I think... it's not up to them to be "fair" to everyone about everything... the mods and administrators make their decisions (we hope) in the best interests of the ENTIRE site and ALL of it's players.. not in the interests of any one player or faction....

[VampireM]

not sure if this has been said but what is Conquer club look like they are representing if they allow maps to have the swastika, but forcing players to take down avatars of with the meaning of Nazi rebelling?

i honestly believe that the mod that told freakns to take down the avatar just wasnt aware of what it meant.. though i am surprised its taking so long to get a ruling..

Edit: i see this was posted on a holiday, Easter weekend, so im going to assume thats why this may take longer then normal

[Jippd]

Freak - The image does not have to glorify nazism to be offensive. The image of the swastika itself can and does offend some people.

Considering Conquer Club does not allow the image in maps, even in a historical context, why would you think you are an exception to the rule?

I'm atheist so using your line of reasoning can I request anyone with an image of a cross or any religious item has to take it down because it 'offends' me?

I think it's ridiculous that this guy should have to take this image off clearly he explained what it is and it is not glorifying nazi's.

I do not approve what the nazi's did but I do believe strongly in freedom of speech.

[rhp 1]

Freak - The image does not have to glorify nazism to be offensive. The image of the swastika itself can and does offend some people.

Considering Conquer Club does not allow the image in maps, even in a historical context, why would you think you are an exception to the rule?

I'm atheist so using your line of reasoning can I request anyone with an image of a cross or any religious item has to take it down because it 'offends' me?

I think it's ridiculous that this guy should have to take this image off clearly he explained what it is and it is not glorifying nazi's.

I do not approve what the nazi's did but I do believe strongly in freedom of speech.

+1

[Vid_FISO]

fair dialogue here... but misses the point a bit I think... it's not up to them to be "fair" to everyone about everything... the mods and administrators make their decisions (we hope) in the best interests of the ENTIRE site and ALL of it's players.. not in the interests of any one player or faction....

Not going to argue the point but I never use the word "fair" because, as you say, you cannot be "fair" to everyone about everything.

I aim for objectivity in my dealings, i.e. attempting not to be swayed by my own opinions and certainly not take on the idea of what others might be offended by.

But as it's been stated that the site owner(?) has made a particular stance then unfortunately for the OP this is a non-discussion.

No idea if it is or isn't but such a ruling should be in the site T&Cs then all any moderator has to do is pm someone in breach of them with the link and request them to adhere to it and if they have an issue with it to contact the site admin(s) and attempt to change that ruling. Something that in my experience very rarely happens.

[rhp 1]

nice discussion here, should we ban all the swastika's from this site, cause. If I have it in my avatar people might say I agree with the Nazi's (which of course is rarely true) If I play a map with a swastika on it, nobody even notices. That's the one and only ugly truth.
People tend to forget that a swastika is a Hindu symbol representing peace, all the four corners stand for something like earth, heaven, sorry but I can't recall the other 2.

Remove it, and Freakns feels offended, remove it not and other people feel offended, I don't think there is truly right and wrong here, maybe only the lesser of 2 evils.

sniffie

It would be nice if people wouldn't get offended so easily...

[General Brock II]

Indeed, in order for this ideal to be acted upon, bring forth some people who do actually find offense, rather than those who have presumably taken offense. Lets have some witnesses, as in any proper court. We have heard from some individuals with Jewish background, and they find freakn's avatar to represent the ideals felt by all underground militant groups in Europe during WWII. They aren't offended.

[White Buffalo]

[jghost7]

[White Buffalo]