HP: fight for freedom. Game over. Wizards won.

[SPARTACUS1974]

Let's be honest, SPART's claim has holes and doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if it did make sense and he was telling the truth, his power is basically to randomly watch people every other night. He doesn't even get to choose who. That is about half a notch above a VT. And, by the time he turns, we'll have to lynch him anyway. Why wait until then when it can be done now? It's hard enough to find scum, I don't see why we would let one get away.

Chapcrap seems to have the right idea about this one.
Sparatcus, your claim simply doesn't make any sense. Also, if what you are saying is true don't you need to die before you lose by becoming scum? (Which makes even less sense.) Vote Spartacus 2
Also, can we get a prod on some people like Mc05025?

I agree here.

Basically Sparticus, so if you say that you'll turn into a death eater but retain town WC, what's the point of turning into Death Eater? I find it difficult to believe that you'll turn into a Death Eater, find out exactly who's mafia, then turn them all over to town and win. That makes it too easy for town. All we have to do is protect you every single night, wait for you to turn and then let you betray all the scum for us. This game was supposed to be HARD for town to win, you make it sound like it's going to be really easy for us to do so.

saf please take your time and read what i have said , if i turn into a deatheater i dont keep my wc nor do i get a deatheater wc i lose how is this so hard to understand

[safariguy5]

Let's be honest, SPART's claim has holes and doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if it did make sense and he was telling the truth, his power is basically to randomly watch people every other night. He doesn't even get to choose who. That is about half a notch above a VT. And, by the time he turns, we'll have to lynch him anyway. Why wait until then when it can be done now? It's hard enough to find scum, I don't see why we would let one get away.

Chapcrap seems to have the right idea about this one.
Sparatcus, your claim simply doesn't make any sense. Also, if what you are saying is true don't you need to die before you lose by becoming scum? (Which makes even less sense.) Vote Spartacus 2
Also, can we get a prod on some people like Mc05025?

I agree here.

Basically Sparticus, so if you say that you'll turn into a death eater but retain town WC, what's the point of turning into Death Eater? I find it difficult to believe that you'll turn into a Death Eater, find out exactly who's mafia, then turn them all over to town and win. That makes it too easy for town. All we have to do is protect you every single night, wait for you to turn and then let you betray all the scum for us. This game was supposed to be HARD for town to win, you make it sound like it's going to be really easy for us to do so.

saf please take your time and read what i have said , if i turn into a deatheater i dont keep my wc nor do i get a deatheater wc i lose how is this so hard to understand

So why say you "turn into a death eater"? Why not say you die? By saying you're turning into a death eater, you basically say "I'm part of the mafia now". Now if you had said you automatically die, I might believe that. But you've been saying since throughout the day that you turn into a death eater. Which means you're going to be mafia.

[thehippo8]

Thanks for the prod. IMHO there is no consensus on Spart - which is interesting because it seems we've gone down this track with Leehar and havn't really given Spart a decent go. I agree Neb is acting angsty on it but I'm not convinced he is doing anything other than trying to keep the conversation going. Let it go Neb, there's ony so much lemon you can suck! And no, for the love of all things magical we surely ain't going back to Saf are we? So what's next?

Well turning back the clock to page 44, the last time we heard from pancake and Dj was pancake saying to give Spart a go and Dj inexplicably clamming everywhere for attacking pancake. Then ... nothing.

Back on page 42, pancake was concerned about Leehar's apathy but considered Snape an important enough character to be cautious.

On page 41 Dj sees it differently and either doesn't know the HP story too well or is simply seeking more info. On page 40 Dj agrees witht he case on Leehar and struggles with letting Saf out of his grasp.

Back on page 39 pancake likes the Holy Bandwagon (ex Neb) on Leehar but nothing of substance stated. Back to page 37 where pancake responds to a prod by Dazza, for panacke's lack of communication since the start of day 2, with a Chill Amigos comment and that he's still getting into the game. But most interestingly, on page 36 it was Dj with the first to post to deter thoughts away from pancake.

Now call me old fashioned but there seems to be a distinct connection between pancake and Dj that runs on a meta-level and seemingly outside the scope of normal conversation. Add to that their relative quiteness (inatention?) then it all adds up to the makings of some questions.

On the silent stakes, you need to go back to page 35 to hear from MC. But to be fair, that may not in itself be sufficient to call it submarining because I fear we havn't really gone far past what he was saying back then!! Be nice to hear from you though!

FASTPOSTED by Spart and Saf

[everywhere116]

I had not considered these possibilities, hippo. I also had not noticed that DJ completely contradicted himself by agreeing with the case on Leehar and then in his very next vote disparaging me and voting for me for following through with Sparty.

Think we can get a majority vote on him in three days?

[Djfireside]

I had not considered these possibilities, hippo. I also had not noticed that DJ completely contradicted himself by agreeing with the case on Leehar and then in his very next vote disparaging me and voting for me for following through with Sparty.

Think we can get a majority vote on him in three days?

Actually my vote is wrong on there

Vote Count:


Nebuchadnezer(2): Dazza, Sparta#2

(l-3)Sparta#2(6): Safari, Thehippo8, Alt, Stike wolf, Chapcrap, everywhere

Everywhere(1): Djfireside

with 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

and I never changed it, freezie you got that part wrong unless there is something that switches votes. I still hold true that I think leaving spart is good since he stated there was no data given from the day before It would be prevalant that he would get data tonight. Should that not occur then I would have more of a point against him.

Yes he will turn eventually but as I first stated I want whatever information he can give and keep them as a backpocket get them outta the way later lynch. If they dont give any data tommorrow which would seem to negate their role, and I mean actually to the point information not just eh this happened, then I would have no problem dropping them tommorrow but I want to give the role a chance to work.

I stuck on you because straight out of the gate you were pushing all over the place to fast lynch someone, it wasnt just spart#2 but you were pushing earlier as well. Im going on a feeling on it and just based on your action I felt you may have been something to review.

But I didnt flip votes so that needs to be reviewed.

[SPARTACUS1974]

Let's be honest, SPART's claim has holes and doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if it did make sense and he was telling the truth, his power is basically to randomly watch people every other night. He doesn't even get to choose who. That is about half a notch above a VT. And, by the time he turns, we'll have to lynch him anyway. Why wait until then when it can be done now? It's hard enough to find scum, I don't see why we would let one get away.

Chapcrap seems to have the right idea about this one.
Sparatcus, your claim simply doesn't make any sense. Also, if what you are saying is true don't you need to die before you lose by becoming scum? (Which makes even less sense.) Vote Spartacus 2
Also, can we get a prod on some people like Mc05025?

I agree here.

Basically Sparticus, so if you say that you'll turn into a death eater but retain town WC, what's the point of turning into Death Eater? I find it difficult to believe that you'll turn into a Death Eater, find out exactly who's mafia, then turn them all over to town and win. That makes it too easy for town. All we have to do is protect you every single night, wait for you to turn and then let you betray all the scum for us. This game was supposed to be HARD for town to win, you make it sound like it's going to be really easy for us to do so.

saf please take your time and read what i have said , if i turn into a deatheater i dont keep my wc nor do i get a deatheater wc i lose how is this so hard to understand

So why say you "turn into a death eater"? Why not say you die? By saying you're turning into a death eater, you basically say "I'm part of the mafia now". Now if you had said you automatically die, I might believe that. But you've been saying since throughout the day that you turn into a death eater. Which means you're going to be mafia.

i dont write the roles

[pancakemix]

I've been keeping quiet up to this point, mainly because anything I would have said would have been redundant, as well as repetitive.

Now I'm going to say I've had enough of this ridiculousness. It has been a stretch of the imagination thus far to give any credibility to Spart's claim. Switching sides following random actions doesn't make any sense at all. Now he's just straight up changing his story. You know, the one he's been going with for however many pages? I've had enough. Vote Sparta.

[thehippo8]

I've been keeping quiet up to this point, mainly because anything I would have said would have been redundant, as well as repetitive.

Now I'm going to say I've had enough of this ridiculousness. It has been a stretch of the imagination thus far to give any credibility to Spart's claim. Switching sides following random actions doesn't make any sense at all. Now he's just straight up changing his story. You know, the one he's been going with for however many pages? I've had enough. Vote Sparta.

Seriously? Didn't you read my post? Maybe you are just not into this game or maybe everyone has been talking too much but either way you have been so stand offish I feel almost lonely! But seriously, you didn't even comment on what I said. It only adds to the summiness IMHO. So ... and I beleive you've brought this on yourself ... unvote: vote pancakemix

[safariguy5]

Ok Sparticus, so you're saying that when Snape turns into a Death Eater, you "lose".

What does that mean? Does it mean you die and you lose even if town wins?

Does it mean you win if town wins?

Or is there some other specific event that has to happen in order for you to win?

[mc05025]

Thanks for the prod. IMHO there is no consensus on Spart - which is interesting because it seems we've gone down this track with Leehar and havn't really given Spart a decent go. I agree Neb is acting angsty on it but I'm not convinced he is doing anything other than trying to keep the conversation going. Let it go Neb, there's ony so much lemon you can suck! And no, for the love of all things magical we surely ain't going back to Saf are we? So what's next?

Well turning back the clock to page 44, the last time we heard from pancake and Dj was pancake saying to give Spart a go and Dj inexplicably clamming everywhere for attacking pancake. Then ... nothing.

Back on page 42, pancake was concerned about Leehar's apathy but considered Snape an important enough character to be cautious.

On page 41 Dj sees it differently and either doesn't know the HP story too well or is simply seeking more info. On page 40 Dj agrees witht he case on Leehar and struggles with letting Saf out of his grasp.

Back on page 39 pancake likes the Holy Bandwagon (ex Neb) on Leehar but nothing of substance stated. Back to page 37 where pancake responds to a prod by Dazza, for panacke's lack of communication since the start of day 2, with a Chill Amigos comment and that he's still getting into the game. But most interestingly, on page 36 it was Dj with the first to post to deter thoughts away from pancake.


Now call me old fashioned but there seems to be a distinct connection between pancake and Dj that runs on a meta-level and seemingly outside the scope of normal conversation. Add to that their relative quiteness (inatention?) then it all adds up to the makings of some questions.

On the silent stakes, you need to go back to page 35 to hear from MC. But to be fair, that may not in itself be sufficient to call it submarining because I fear we havn't really gone far past what he was saying back then!! Be nice to hear from you though!

FASTPOSTED by Spart and Saf

You are right I am a bit inactive due to not enough time and because this seems to be too complicated. Anyway I pretty much agree with you although I do suspect you a lot

vote pancakemix

[dazza2008]

Ok Sparticus, so you're saying that when Snape turns into a Death Eater, you "lose".

What does that mean? Does it mean you die and you lose even if town wins?

Does it mean you win if town wins?

Or is there some other specific event that has to happen in order for you to win?

Yeah I want to know this too. I am really confused by what he has said. I want to believe Spart but it is hard to.

I really don't understand. Do you die or become scum?

Fastposted by a quote without commenting

[chapcrap]

thehippo8, have you taken Neb's spot as spart's defender? That's nice of you.

Thanks for the prod. IMHO there is no consensus on Spart - which is interesting because it seems we've gone down this track with Leehar and havn't really given Spart a decent go. I agree Neb is acting angsty on it but I'm not convinced he is doing anything other than trying to keep the conversation going. Let it go Neb, there's ony so much lemon you can suck!

[spiesr]

Thanks for the prod. IMHO there is no consensus on Spart - which is interesting because it seems we've gone down this track with Leehar and havn't really given Spart a decent go.

Well, since Leehar had already halfway claimed when Sparatcus2 came in as the replacement it wouldn't really make sense for us to have backed off and let him have a fresh start. Basically the only thing that we can judge Spartacus himself on his how he elaborates on the claim that Leehar started, and so far that performance hasn't been very impressive. Sure it kind of sucks for Sparatcus to be in that situation when it is Leehar's actions that put him there, but really what could you be expecting when replacing into that situation?

[thehippo8]

Thanks for the prod. IMHO there is no consensus on Spart - which is interesting because it seems we've gone down this track with Leehar and havn't really given Spart a decent go.

Well, since Leehar had already halfway claimed when Sparatcus2 came in as the replacement it wouldn't really make sense for us to have backed off and let him have a fresh start. Basically the only thing that we can judge Spartacus himself on his how he elaborates on the claim that Leehar started, and so far that performance hasn't been very impressive. Sure it kind of sucks for Sparatcus to be in that situation when it is Leehar's actions that put him there, but really what could you be expecting when replacing into that situation?

I don't question your integrity. My concern is that town could hurt itself by not giving the information gathering an exercise one chance (at least). But we live in a consensus world and I can't take that issue any further. Any thoughts on the case against pancake?

[chapcrap]

Any thoughts on the case against pancake?

Yes, I think it's not much of a case and it only serves to distract from spart's case and lead the town towards a no lynch, which makes you scummier in my eyes.

[thehippo8]

Any thoughts on the case against pancake?

Yes, I think it's not much of a case and it only serves to distract from spart's case and lead the town towards a no lynch, which makes you scummier in my eyes.

Lol .. aha. Well, I'm thinking much the same about you for banging on about the Spart case! Never mind, let's see what the others think.

[safariguy5]

Any thoughts on the case against pancake?

Yes, I think it's not much of a case and it only serves to distract from spart's case and lead the town towards a no lynch, which makes you scummier in my eyes.

Lol .. aha. Well, I'm thinking much the same about you for banging on about the Spart case! Never mind, let's see what the others think.

Difference being that Sparticus is already under some vote pressure and we're close to deadline. Starting up a new wagon so close to deadline smacks of scum trying to split the voting power to force a no lynch.

[thehippo8]

Any thoughts on the case against pancake?

Yes, I think it's not much of a case and it only serves to distract from spart's case and lead the town towards a no lynch, which makes you scummier in my eyes.

Lol .. aha. Well, I'm thinking much the same about you for banging on about the Spart case! Never mind, let's see what the others think.

Difference being that Sparticus is already under some vote pressure and we're close to deadline. Starting up a new wagon so close to deadline smacks of scum trying to split the voting power to force a no lynch.

Vote pressure is something used for an unknown, when you want information, or a known, when you want to actually lynch someone. A bandwagon is in the former camp and but I see the case on pancake as being more sturdy than just a stab in the dark. Either we get on with it and lynch Spart or we don't. I see town jumping on and off that bandwagon because there is plenty of information but no consensus to lynch. If that were to change then fantastic, otherwise we don't have a consensus and have to look elsewhere. It's not a question of splitting the vote but rather to sharpen everyone's mind. I'm saying, if you don't commit to the Spart lynch then here's something else to ponder. Two of you have said "nah - forget it hippo" and I respect that. But there's more than two people here!! On the other hand MC has said, consistently, that the Spart lynch is bad for twon too early and I agree. MC can see the case on pancake adn pancake hasn't responded. So, man up, take out your wand and take a stab in a direction you are going to commit to. Otherwise you are right, saf, we'll just end up cruising to a deadline with some information and no lynch. But if we havn't got a good reason to remove a townie then what's the point in rushing it? SOunds like you are just keen on a lynch and be damned with the consequences!!

[pancakemix]

I've been keeping quiet up to this point, mainly because anything I would have said would have been redundant, as well as repetitive.

Now I'm going to say I've had enough of this ridiculousness. It has been a stretch of the imagination thus far to give any credibility to Spart's claim. Switching sides following random actions doesn't make any sense at all. Now he's just straight up changing his story. You know, the one he's been going with for however many pages? I've had enough. Vote Sparta.

Seriously? Didn't you read my post? Maybe you are just not into this game or maybe everyone has been talking too much but either way you have been so stand offish I feel almost lonely! But seriously, you didn't even comment on what I said. It only adds to the summiness IMHO. So ... and I beleive you've brought this on yourself ... unvote: vote pancakemix

I did. I think you're reading quite a bit into non-interaction between me and someone I didn't even know was in this game until you brought him up. As a matter of fact, you never even said anything I could possibly be doing, just that I did some things that somehow correlated to someone else's actions. It could just as easily been a case on DJ, who likewise, did not comment on your case which is merely a list of actions.

(Removed for length)

Actually my vote is wrong on there

Vote Count:

and I never changed it, freezie you got that part wrong unless there is something that switches votes. I still hold true that I think leaving spart is good since he stated there was no data given from the day before It would be prevalant that he would get data tonight. Should that not occur then I would have more of a point against him.

Yes he will turn eventually but as I first stated I want whatever information he can give and keep them as a backpocket get them outta the way later lynch. If they dont give any data tommorrow which would seem to negate their role, and I mean actually to the point information not just eh this happened, then I would have no problem dropping them tommorrow but I want to give the role a chance to work.

I stuck on you because straight out of the gate you were pushing all over the place to fast lynch someone, it wasnt just spart#2 but you were pushing earlier as well. Im going on a feeling on it and just based on your action I felt you may have been something to review.

But I didnt flip votes so that needs to be reviewed.

The only difference is I voted Sparta after that case seemingly had a new development, whereas DJ was saying he didn't support that, which, interestingly enough, falls in line with your opinion that that case "doesn't have consensus". Tell me, oh Swami-of-the-Carefully-Worded-Sentence, if you thought Spart's case DID "have consensus", would you be voting for it?

You also said that correlation (or lack thereof) raised some questions. Which ones? I didn't see any.

You are right I am a bit inactive due to not enough time and because this seems to be too complicated. Anyway I pretty much agree with you although I do suspect you a lot

vote pancakemix

On the other hand MC has said, consistently, that the Spart lynch is bad for twon too early and I agree. MC can see the case on pancake adn pancake hasn't responded.

But of course, this is perfectly acceptable. This guy you just said hasn't posted in almost 20 pages comes in, quotes your case, says nothing except "this game is too complicated", and votes for me for reasons I can only assume means he thought it was the current bandwagon. And you choose not only to not condemn this, but to say he's the only one who gets what you're saying? Are you for real? And this guy doesn't even trust you. Why should anyone else?

So I have two questions for you now:

1. Of what exactly am I being accused?
2. Is there a reason you're voting me apart from the fact that I disagree with your opinion and didn't say so sooner?

[thehippo8]

@pancake - Welcome back. You were being accused of submarining, skimming and general non-involvement with the game. The correlation (apparent if not real) with dj was an interesting aside. You are welcome to disagree with me whenever you like. But I am satisfied by your response that you are there, but why aren't we hearing more from you. The purpose of my 'case' against you was to test the mettle of town with respect to the Spart case. I really want people to either think about the game properly and focus a bit more. But I am satisfied by your response that there is nothing in my case. So, in all fairness, unvote.

I really don't know what to make of MC. Problem is that he is probably the biggest culprit at submarining. But no, I'm not going to suggest another case. there seems to be two very clear factions at the moment. Those who want to remove what is really an unknown and possibly unknowable quantity in Spart and those who are keen to make use of what could be very valuable and seek to avoid the loss of another member of town. But perhaps I am being way too generous. Like you pancake I am rather over this day and for better or worse I will go with the majority now and vote Spart 2

[spiesr]

@pancake - Welcome back. You were being accused of submarining, skimming and general non-involvement with the game.

By this point in time all of these things have become such a standard part of pancakemix's play that I am afraid that using them to make any sort of conclusions about his possible alignment would probably have a success rate akin to throwing darts at the wall.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Vote count?

Doesn't seem like we can deter people from voting for SPART...I think this is a huge opportunity gone for us. Fine. Let's end this day.

[strike wolf]

Read it over. The connection between Pancake and DJ was a stretch at best. Fail to see how Pancake's "submarining and Skimming" were any worse than MC's who pretty much went more under the radar on that or DJ's especially as Pancake seemed to come back and post something fairly productive where MC seemed to be more just blindly following on your case on Pancake which was fairly hypocritical since he's technically in the same boat as Pancake. My vote stays on Sparta.

[safariguy5]

Vote count?

Doesn't seem like we can deter people from voting for SPART...I think this is a huge opportunity gone for us. Fine. Let's end this day.

I'm not seeing how this is a huge opportunity. If Sparticus could direct his night actions, he might have some utility. But not only are they apparently randomly directed, he can only use them every other night. So not only is that halving the possible results we could get, it also doesn't allow us to really get quality information related to people we want to investigate.

For example, investigating mc could be a good idea due to his relative lack of activity. But even if Sparticus wanted to investigate him, he would only have a 1/15 chance of actually doing so.

Assuming Sparticus is being truthful, there is still only minimal utility to his role. And his claim and defense have not done much to convince me that he's telling the truth.

[freezie]

Vote Count:

Nebuchadnezer(3): Spiers, Dazza, SpartaV2

L-3SpartaV2(6): Safari, Strike wolf, Chapcrap, everywhere, Pancakemix, thehippo8

Everywhere(1): Djfireside

Strike Wolf(1): Nebuchdnezee

PancakeMix(1): McHammer

16 alive, 9 to lynch. deadline in 2 days and shall be considered a no lynch ( if the deadline is reached ).