HP: fight for freedom. Game over. Wizards won.

[everywhere116]

Opportunity cost

[chapcrap]

Opportunity cost

This.

Plus, that's IF you actually believe that he is trying to spin.

[thehippo8]

Opportunity cost

This.

Plus, that's IF you actually believe that he is trying to spin.

Frankly it's hard to beleive anything anyone says in any Mafia game, but educated guesses and a few risks (depending on one's comfort level) usually fill in the gaps. At the end of the day, though, this is a consensus issue. We are not going to get anything more out of Spart so we need to make a decision. All on or all off. If we aren't going for Spart then we need to consider who else is better to go for. That's going to be my current focus unless the Spart issue regains momentum.

[everywhere116]

Well, he's at L-4. There are some people who have sided against him in debate but haven't voted for him. There are also a couple inactives. And there's you who unvoted but I suppose could be persuaded to revote if that's the way the wind blows.

My concern is that if we can't get a majority vote on him we might not be able to get a majority vote on anyone.

[spiesr]

Let's be honest, SPART's claim has holes and doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if it did make sense and he was telling the truth, his power is basically to randomly watch people every other night. He doesn't even get to choose who. That is about half a notch above a VT. And, by the time he turns, we'll have to lynch him anyway. Why wait until then when it can be done now? It's hard enough to find scum, I don't see why we would let one get away.

Chapcrap seems to have the right idea about this one.
Sparatcus, your claim simply doesn't make any sense. Also, if what you are saying is true don't you need to die before you lose by becoming scum? (Which makes even less sense.) Vote Spartacus 2
Also, can we get a prod on some people like Mc05025?

[safariguy5]

Let's be honest, SPART's claim has holes and doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if it did make sense and he was telling the truth, his power is basically to randomly watch people every other night. He doesn't even get to choose who. That is about half a notch above a VT. And, by the time he turns, we'll have to lynch him anyway. Why wait until then when it can be done now? It's hard enough to find scum, I don't see why we would let one get away.

Chapcrap seems to have the right idea about this one.
Sparatcus, your claim simply doesn't make any sense. Also, if what you are saying is true don't you need to die before you lose by becoming scum? (Which makes even less sense.) Vote Spartacus 2
Also, can we get a prod on some people like Mc05025?

I agree here.

Basically Sparticus, so if you say that you'll turn into a death eater but retain town WC, what's the point of turning into Death Eater? I find it difficult to believe that you'll turn into a Death Eater, find out exactly who's mafia, then turn them all over to town and win. That makes it too easy for town. All we have to do is protect you every single night, wait for you to turn and then let you betray all the scum for us. This game was supposed to be HARD for town to win, you make it sound like it's going to be really easy for us to do so.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Let's be honest, SPART's claim has holes and doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if it did make sense and he was telling the truth, his power is basically to randomly watch people every other night. He doesn't even get to choose who. That is about half a notch above a VT. And, by the time he turns, we'll have to lynch him anyway. Why wait until then when it can be done now? It's hard enough to find scum, I don't see why we would let one get away.

Chapcrap seems to have the right idea about this one.
Sparatcus, your claim simply doesn't make any sense. Also, if what you are saying is true don't you need to die before you lose by becoming scum? (Which makes even less sense.) Vote Spartacus 2
Also, can we get a prod on some people like Mc05025?

I agree here.

Basically Sparticus, so if you say that you'll turn into a death eater but retain town WC, what's the point of turning into Death Eater? I find it difficult to believe that you'll turn into a Death Eater, find out exactly who's mafia, then turn them all over to town and win. That makes it too easy for town. All we have to do is protect you every single night, wait for you to turn and then let you betray all the scum for us. This game was supposed to be HARD for town to win, you make it sound like it's going to be really easy for us to do so.

Do you guys think that maybe the hard part is that the roles are not your typical roles? Do you think the hard part is trying to convince the "veterans" that not every role is going to be cut-and-dried "cop" or "doctor"? You guys carry on with the lynch...I still don't see the harm in letting him live today to see what information we get tonight...

So, while the votes pile up on SPARTACUS, I have another thought...did anybody's night action last night actually succeed? I don't know how to get an answer without having someone out themselves...but I'm just curious, because this whole Harry death still doesn't sit with me right. I just can't believe that every protective role in town wasn't saving him. He should have had an impenetrable force field around him...yet he still dies? I only have the fact that SPARTACUS's role did not have an action night one...perhaps Harry's 'sacrifice' nullified every action last night? Just putting my thoughts out there...it's total WIFOM. Just bothered by that still though...

[safariguy5]

I don't think trying to get protective roles to out themselves is a wise move there Neb.

[spiesr]

So, while the votes pile up on SPARTACUS, I have another thought...did anybody's night action last night actually succeed? I don't know how to get an answer without having someone out themselves...but I'm just curious, because this whole Harry death still doesn't sit with me right. I just can't believe that every protective role in town wasn't saving him. He should have had an impenetrable force field around him...yet he still dies? I only have the fact that SPARTACUS's role did not have an action night one...perhaps Harry's 'sacrifice' nullified every action last night? Just putting my thoughts out there...it's total WIFOM. Just bothered by that still though...

Well, a mafia busdriver would easily defeat any number Bodygaurds, Jailkeepers, and Doctors by switching all of their actions to another player. A watcher would still be able to detect the busdriver itself in that instance though. Another possibility is that the scum could have some sort of Hitman role which allows them to bypass protections.
If you believe Sparatuc2's claim then his role apparently only acts on even nights. (Relevant question for Spartacus, were you told that, or just assuming it sine it didn't go last night?)

[Nebuchadnezer]

I'm just going off of what Spartacus is telling us. Like I said, I have nothing to base this on...just had to ask.

[strike wolf]

Let's be honest, SPART's claim has holes and doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if it did make sense and he was telling the truth, his power is basically to randomly watch people every other night. He doesn't even get to choose who. That is about half a notch above a VT. And, by the time he turns, we'll have to lynch him anyway. Why wait until then when it can be done now? It's hard enough to find scum, I don't see why we would let one get away.

Chapcrap seems to have the right idea about this one.
Sparatcus, your claim simply doesn't make any sense. Also, if what you are saying is true don't you need to die before you lose by becoming scum? (Which makes even less sense.) Vote Spartacus 2
Also, can we get a prod on some people like Mc05025?

I agree here.

Basically Sparticus, so if you say that you'll turn into a death eater but retain town WC, what's the point of turning into Death Eater? I find it difficult to believe that you'll turn into a Death Eater, find out exactly who's mafia, then turn them all over to town and win. That makes it too easy for town. All we have to do is protect you every single night, wait for you to turn and then let you betray all the scum for us. This game was supposed to be HARD for town to win, you make it sound like it's going to be really easy for us to do so.

Do you guys think that maybe the hard part is that the roles are not your typical roles? Do you think the hard part is trying to convince the "veterans" that not every role is going to be cut-and-dried "cop" or "doctor"? You guys carry on with the lynch...I still don't see the harm in letting him live today to see what information we get tonight...

Maybe the difficult part is actually convincing the inexperienced players that not every claim should be believed.

[strike wolf]

Ebwop: the second part, better not to reveal who has a night action though with 17 roles probably about 11 or 12 (maybe 13) of them town and an unknown number power roles with actions, I'm betting someone got their action through.

[everywhere116]

Well, a mafia busdriver would easily defeat any number Bodygaurds, Jailkeepers, and Doctors by switching all of their actions to another player. A watcher would still be able to detect the busdriver itself in that instance though. Another possibility is that the scum could have some sort of Hitman role which allows them to bypass protections.

If a Mafia Hitman exists, it logically necessitates that Saf is lying. The reverse is also true (If Saf telling truth, then Hitman does not exist)

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Well, a mafia busdriver would easily defeat any number Bodygaurds, Jailkeepers, and Doctors by switching all of their actions to another player. A watcher would still be able to detect the busdriver itself in that instance though. Another possibility is that the scum could have some sort of Hitman role which allows them to bypass protections.

If a Mafia Hitman exists, it logically necessitates that Saf is lying. The reverse is also true (If Saf telling truth, then Hitman does not exist)

That doesn't necessarily follow.

-Tails

[everywhere116]

Would a hitman also kill a bodyguard if said bodyguard was protecting the Hitman's target?

[spiesr]

Would a hitman also kill a bodyguard if said bodyguard was protecting the Hitman's target?

Probably depends on the mod. I kind of doubt that a hitman would kill both the bodygaurd and the target. It seems like it would make more sense for it to kill one or the other.
I suppose that we also can't rule out the possibility of Hitman + Roleblocker...

[alt1978]

Unvote for sparticus/leehar

It makes sense to me to give this thing a shot and test it rather than lynching sparticus right now.
Safari says he is a town body guard. Have him protect sparticus...let sparticus perform his action...bring back the info. Test the info...hopefully it leads to a scum lynch. Then we have a debate about whether or not to risk that action again.
If Sparticus ends up dead tonight...safari would likely be scum. Town is hurting right now...that was a bad first day...we need something to turn this around and I don't see anything better than this as far getting some traction on scum. For those concerned with Sparticus eventually turning...let's just lynch him in a couple of days if folks still feel that way.

[safariguy5]

Unvote for sparticus/leehar

It makes sense to me to give this thing a shot and test it rather than lynching sparticus right now.
Safari says he is a town body guard. Have him protect sparticus...let sparticus perform his action...bring back the info. Test the info...hopefully it leads to a scum lynch. Then we have a debate about whether or not to risk that action again.
If Sparticus ends up dead tonight...safari would likely be scum. Town is hurting right now...that was a bad first day...we need something to turn this around and I don't see anything better than this as far getting some traction on scum. For those concerned with Sparticus eventually turning...let's just lynch him in a couple of days if folks still feel that way.

So at least I know that mafia have a way of blocking/redirecting protections. What makes you think they won't do the same thing with Sparticus again?

[strike wolf]

Spartacus: my power is every other night i get moved around randomly with another wizard good and bad so if a deatheater tries to block us ,bus us , well any night activity i find out there roles.

[spiesr]

It makes sense to me to give this thing a shot and test it rather than lynching sparticus right now.
Safari says he is a town body guard. Have him protect sparticus...let sparticus perform his action...bring back the info. Test the info...hopefully it leads to a scum lynch. Then we have a debate about whether or not to risk that action again.
If Sparticus ends up dead tonight...safari would likely be scum. Town is hurting right now...that was a bad first day...we need something to turn this around and I don't see anything better than this as far getting some traction on scum. For those concerned with Sparticus eventually turning...let's just lynch him in a couple of days if folks still feel that way.

Even if Spartacus is actually telling the truth, I don't think that he would need to be protected at night. Either the town will be forced to lynch him at some point, or he will become an asset to the mafia. So, I don't see why the scum would try to kill him at all.
Also, your theory that if we did what you say and then Spartacus dying meaning that Safariguy is scum doesn't really add up. Either the mafia have a means to circumvent whatever protection Safariguy offers, or we already know he is scum...

[Nebuchadnezer]

Unvote for sparticus/leehar

It makes sense to me to give this thing a shot and test it rather than lynching sparticus right now.
Safari says he is a town body guard. Have him protect sparticus...let sparticus perform his action...bring back the info. Test the info...hopefully it leads to a scum lynch. Then we have a debate about whether or not to risk that action again.
If Sparticus ends up dead tonight...safari would likely be scum. Town is hurting right now...that was a bad first day...we need something to turn this around and I don't see anything better than this as far getting some traction on scum. For those concerned with Sparticus eventually turning...let's just lynch him in a couple of days if folks still feel that way.

So at least I know that mafia have a way of blocking/redirecting protections. What makes you think they won't do the same thing with Sparticus again?

This! This is exactly what I was saying earlier in the day! Now you're using that as some type of reason to lynch SPARTICUS?!?! I believe you were one of those saying my reasoning earlier was faulty for saying that mafia has a template for killing town...yet now, you agree with me?

It's not that other people have raised concerns about the possibility that I faked my claim, it's just that Neb seems the most adamant that I have to be lying. At least most everyone else concedes that there are several possibilities for why my night action didn't work, but Neb seemed to believe that only one explanation was probable. I'm not going to stand here and say that I deserve the doctor claim treatment, but it's not as if my role is worthless. As of yet, there's no concrete evidence that I'm mafia besides the fact that my night action didn't work. And that is hardly a smoking gun in terms of only having one possible explanation, especially considering how it's only been 1 night.

So, it's okay for you to think that SPARTACUS is lying, but there is no possible way YOU could be lying...Come on safariguy, you are starting to double talk now...I'd like the "veterans" to give this a look...am I way off? Just seems like safari is willing to spin things his way to get a lynch, but when I was saying this, I was suspicious and worthy of a FOS.

[freezie]

Vote Count:

Nebuchadnezer(3): Spiesr, Dazza, SpartacusV2

SpartacusV2(4): Safari, Strike Wolf, Chapcrap, Everywhere

Everywhere(1): Djfireside

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline in 3 days. It shall be a no lynch if the deadline is reached. Mass prod incoming.

[safariguy5]

Unvote for sparticus/leehar

It makes sense to me to give this thing a shot and test it rather than lynching sparticus right now.
Safari says he is a town body guard. Have him protect sparticus...let sparticus perform his action...bring back the info. Test the info...hopefully it leads to a scum lynch. Then we have a debate about whether or not to risk that action again.
If Sparticus ends up dead tonight...safari would likely be scum. Town is hurting right now...that was a bad first day...we need something to turn this around and I don't see anything better than this as far getting some traction on scum. For those concerned with Sparticus eventually turning...let's just lynch him in a couple of days if folks still feel that way.

So at least I know that mafia have a way of blocking/redirecting protections. What makes you think they won't do the same thing with Sparticus again?

This! This is exactly what I was saying earlier in the day! Now you're using that as some type of reason to lynch SPARTICUS?!?! I believe you were one of those saying my reasoning earlier was faulty for saying that mafia has a template for killing town...yet now, you agree with me?

It's not that other people have raised concerns about the possibility that I faked my claim, it's just that Neb seems the most adamant that I have to be lying. At least most everyone else concedes that there are several possibilities for why my night action didn't work, but Neb seemed to believe that only one explanation was probable. I'm not going to stand here and say that I deserve the doctor claim treatment, but it's not as if my role is worthless. As of yet, there's no concrete evidence that I'm mafia besides the fact that my night action didn't work. And that is hardly a smoking gun in terms of only having one possible explanation, especially considering how it's only been 1 night.

So, it's okay for you to think that SPARTACUS is lying, but there is no possible way YOU could be lying...Come on safariguy, you are starting to double talk now...I'd like the "veterans" to give this a look...am I way off? Just seems like safari is willing to spin things his way to get a lynch, but when I was saying this, I was suspicious and worthy of a FOS.

Oh BS. I already offered myself up for the lynch. I'm working on the assumption that people believe my claim. Because if you don't you should have said something earlier. Since the general consensus is to believe my claim (at least for now) then my assertion about tipping mafia off about my protection is still true.

Seriously, you look like you're trying to distract from the Sparticus case by trying to rehash the case on me (AGAIN).

[chapcrap]

Seriously, you look like you're trying to distract from the Sparticus case by trying to rehash the case on me (AGAIN).

That's what I've been trying to say.
Let's review Neb the past few pages:

because he's going to tell us when he flips mafia so we can lynch him then. The whole thing seems like a fake claim to me. I mean it sounds like something someone who skimmed over the wikipedia article might come up with as his fake claim.

Accurate information his role would represent without details.

1. Snape was originally a death eater.
2. He switched sides and joined Dumbledore and The Order of THe Phoenix.
3. He once again became a death eater.

How that information falls apart.

1. Snape was a Death Eater until Voldemort killed the woman he loved and he realized that he was on the wrong side.
2. At this point he joined Dumbledore and promised to protect Harry.
3. He rejoined the Death Eater but was actually a spy for Dumbledore the entire time (Helping Harry find and destroy some of the Horcruxes)

Snape did not just turn evil nor does using Dark Magic turn you evil in the series. Dark Magic is a sign that someone is a Death Eater but not tell all.

Perhaps a vig kill would be more viable but I don't want Mafia potentially messing with who is actually targeted.

Ah, Strike...didn't you learn from the Tonks lynch? Or are you trying to use flavor to convince the town that we should lynch a townie and save you the work.

I could FOS you, but what the heck does that even do? So...

UNVOTE VOTE STRIKE WOLF.

Why? For using faulty logic and trying to play the mod. We already got screwed once on this type of lynching. I'm not going to make that same mistake, and any townie worth an ounce of smarts will not fall for this faulty argument, nor push for a lynch using this type of argument. Poor play, Strike, poor play.

jesus cant you read at all chap there is no info from night 1 , i was tucked up nicely in my bed which part of every other night dont you understand.

can i say what my wc says or will i get mod killed?
the results will tell me there name /role and any other info they hold

Exactly, no info, so you are saying that it starts night 2. You keep contradicting yourself.

who said my power takes 2 nights to work ? i said it works everyother night.

I will say it again: You're explanation just doesn't add up.

We found scum for sure.

Chap...you can't be this dumb. However, you can be this scummy.

Seems like you're just pointing fingers at anyone who isn't SPART until something sticks... Good luck with that.

And then the above post against saf. He really is trying everything to get us away from the case against spart. It's almost like the case is against him. I still can't believe he hasn't had to claim yet with all of the pressure and prods it took for him to finally start posting.

[SPARTACUS1974]

another 1 who is skimming if i turn deatheater its not good for me thats why i have said kill me after the second use of my power then im still town so why is that different from safs?
if i die now and town wins i still win the same as saf

Then why would have a problem with dying now?

There is no way the game will be over by Day 5 or 6, you'll be turned by then.

And just because you accuse everyone of skimming doesn't make it so.

Everything IB tries to argue for you just doesn't add up either.

You are wrong Tail. We do not know when he will Turn AFTER night four. That is a huge difference from saying, "We dont know when he will turn"

Not really. Pretty much the same thing and when Tail said that, it could probably be assumed that he really meant after the couple of random night watches that he gets.

Let's be honest, SPART's claim has holes and doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if it did make sense and he was telling the truth, his power is basically to randomly watch people every other night. He doesn't even get to choose who. That is about half a notch above a VT. And, by the time he turns, we'll have to lynch him anyway. Why wait until then when it can be done now? It's hard enough to find scum, I don't see why we would let one get away.

i have said before if i die today and town wins i win , and what other players do you know who like getting killed ? i thought my role could be usefull to town.