Golden Pantheon - Japanese - Endgame

[safariguy5]

Popping in to say hi! I'm drunk right now, so no long post. Serious fucking FOS on safguy for voting the uncc'd doc after claiming. That is some bullshit. If we don't have a cc, we can move on from there. If we do have a cc, we are lynching strike.

Again, read my justification. If we assume cult and SKer (which seems more likely to me due to no NK on Night 1) then doc loses a good amount of his usefulness. Our number 1 priority is looking for the cult leader, and if we use the power role recruitment WIFOM, strike would be high on the recruitment list now anyways.

Of course, if someone has information that we may have an SKer (roleblock on Night 1) then I'm definitely going to reconsider my vote, but the night actions seem to point towards cult only more than both.

From the protection stand point there is no difference between an SK kill or a Mafia kill so neither would affect the chance a doctor was in the game. Remember there was some kind of struggle depicted night 1 and a kill night 2. Do you want to chalk the Night 2 kill down as a vig and the Night 1 as something else?

That's what I'm leaning towards. Scene flavor can be somewhat unreliable (Night 1 kill in GP) and a struggle can mean several things. Did you say who you protected Nights 1 and 2? I might have missed that.

[freezie]

He said he protected general both night.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Honestly, the whole case on strike appears like people making mountains out of molehills.

Starting from this, where general wanted to keep his investigations secret for now ( which isn't that much of a bad thing, really )
we get strike starting to act very strangely:

Yeah could be role block could be doc protection. So General?

Same thing I said for general, assuming there is a doc/roleblock, but nothing else. I am having a slight feeling that these 2 knew what really was happening. But, more or less the point. The real thing here is that he asked, without doubts, general to claim his investigation. Then, very shortly, he changes his whole mind about it:

So General, why won't you tell us who you investigated? I don't see how it could hurt the town, only help.

*shrugs* I don't see the harm in keeping it behind the bars for now. As long as the person isn't considered to be at risk of any lynch, I don't really feel there's strong to make them claim.

Alright, more or less a change. But he's very quick in accepting that when he didn't doubt it beforehand.

At this point, it appears that Strike believed he may have been investigated by General, and therefore sided with General in not wanting the investigation results revealed (since he's claiming doc, he didn't want to be outed). I mean, it should be enough if a player is cleared by the cop, but you never know, somebody might demand specifics, and then boom you've got the doc outed prematurely.

If you're arguing that Strike is the recruiter and turned General... then it makes more sense for the General to have made up a lie regarding his investigation. He could have claimed a result, or a block, with none the wiser until later in the game, most likely too late with cult recruiting.

This is Strike's vote on jonty for the lynch, end of day 2:

Well I hope I'm right because I have every reason to believe that your claim is real Sound...I have every reason to doubt Jonty's alliance.

vote Jonty

AS pointed out before, your reasons are...well, yea. But you explained that already. Just pointing this out here.

It makes sense to me, and it's why jonty was lynched; the flavor and game spec made sense that jonty and soundman would be of different factions. Unfortunately, we were wrong. This is a classic example of using a quote out of context. There was almost nothing wrong with the jonty lynch yesterday, strictly speaking.

This, however:

Either way I'm not gonna push a case on the cop on the principle that he COULD have been recruited. Just putting it forward. Also a recruited cult is the lowest on my rung to lynch. Much rather find the killer (assuming there is one) and the recruiter.

No one ever spoke of starting a case on the general. Granted, I just did it. And I will not agree to a general lynch tonight. The recruiter is so much more important right now. I also don't even want to find the killer right now. Recruiter above all else.

I have to disagree here as well. Once somebody mentioned the possibility that General may have been recruited, then he automatically becomes a lynch candidate, whether it was explicitly stated or no.

I'm also concerned why some are on Strike's BW, like Victor, who hasn't posted much more than "something isn't right," w/out going into details. Freezie seems the only one who's actually gone into specifics.

-Tails

[jonty125]

There was almost nothing wrong with the jonty lynch yesterday, strictly speaking.
-Tails

Well I think there was, but I might be biased.

[strike wolf]

Lol Tails. where were you when everyone was voting for me? So I spent most of my time on the forum the last couple days trying to find something to go on:

Lol, roles are supposed to be "randomly generated" but saying that is like saying the dice are "random". Victor must have particularly scummy luck.

So does that mean we want to semirandomly start a bandwagon? I.e. vote the semi-inactive? I.e. Victor?

with about 25% of the inactive being a mafia.

First two comments just seem a bit safe.

How did you work this out?

4 towns to 1 mafia ratio, and will be 3 mafia so about 27.3% they will be.

Surely you knew this

You forgot that last game had an SKer too, so there were 3 mafia + 1 anti town role. So no, I don't believe we can assume there are 3 mafia and 8 town.

Third comment all game mechanics speculation.

Ionno, I thought bandwagonning Day 1 has to be taken with a grain of salt because it's much more difficult to get pressure on someone without some bandwagonning. So I don't necessarily think bandwagonning (esp if it's the first real case Day 1) adds much to a case. Certainly if a pattern evolves that's another story.

A bit dismissive. Not really much to go on just from the first 4 comments.

I'd say SW was shooting blindly into the dark with a machine gun and seeing what, if anything, he might hit. We shouldn't overinterpret things, there are hardly any leads on day 1 anyway.

At the same time, attempting to get a concrete foundation on suspicions is good, considering Day 1 usually doesn't give us major scumtells.

Another fairly safe post. Doesn't really contradict his last post but it does stand out a little from his last post.

How long was his ban? Maybe he was just catching up. But either way, I would like to see something from thegeneral at least in regards to strike baiting someone to vote.

Ionno strike inactive bandwagon Day 1 is pretty standard play. I mean, even IF you did bait the person onto voting the wagon, it's a pretty nonspecific test as a good number of people are going to do that. So I wouldn't say it "confirmed suspicions" at all because it's too general.

unvote vote strike wolf

After this, it seems like Safari's kind of jumping back and forth on the issue a little. First says bandwagoning day 1 doesn't prove much until it starts to establish a pattern. Then says that trying to find a "concrete foundation" is a good thing and then two posts by him later he is voting me for attempting to "confirm suspicions"

Ionno strike inactive bandwagon Day 1 is pretty standard play. I mean, even IF you did bait the person onto voting the wagon, it's a pretty nonspecific test as a good number of people are going to do that. So I wouldn't say it "confirmed suspicions" at all because it's too general.

unvote vote strike wolf

Can you tell me where he 'confirmed' his suspicion? As far as I know, he's voting general for -mostly- the same reason I am voting Jonty.

On the other hand..Strike..where exactly did you had any suspcion on General as far as voting the inactive? Looking back, the only other player I can see that even though about it was Everywhere, not General. I was all up for you to bait someone, anyone, into reacting to that ( Pretty clever if you ask me--throw a bait that strike might have eyes on you, and if you're mafia, change your way of acting just to avoid suspicion...taking the bait by trying to avoid it ) but..General? He did say something about Victor, but more or less inside the joke stage still.

And only when I called you on it that you unvoted, since you posted 3 times since drake's return.

Well drake made a few posts when he came back on a debate on the setup but I was waiting to see if he'd sink under the radar again over the test of time he hasn't (curse of the commentary) so I unvoted as he was being more active

Truth, however, if I look back, it looks like you were trying to frame him based on that setup. You already had your vote on him for a Legitimate reason ( Even though I didn't agree on the timing ) so it wasn't hard to 'pursue' that case. Honestly, setup speculation isn't the base of a case, unless he did a major scum-slip by knowing inside info.

Well strike never really made clear which person he had suspicions on (unless I missed something) but he did say that IF the person had voted, that would have confirmed strike's suspicions of that person. Since the person did not vote, it was a moot point.

My point is that just because someone you suspect gets on the bandwagon, it shouldn't confirm suspicions because the nature of the bandwagon was such that many people could jump on the bandwagon and have some justification. So it's not specific enough to target just one person. Which shouldn't add anything to a potential case.

This is actually a fairly substantive post even if I don't completely agree with it. Though the bold is inaccurate. I never had said it would confirm my suspicion just that it would reinforce.

Well General so you accuse me of not addressing your reasoning. I did. I repeated myself and without addressing that I did address your reasoning, you vote. I hope I'm not the only one who finds this a tad bit ironic.

Strike, for what it is worth, I'm not convinced you are scum, but this retarded D1 tradition of a RL has unfortunately put us in a bad predicament. So for what its worth, I'm sorry.

Well if you don't think strike is scum, then why vote for him? And you're misrepresenting Day 1 tradition as a lynch. Pressure that leads to a claim gives us information which is just as good. We don't necessarily need to lynch someone, we just need information.

unvote vote TheGeneral

Didn't address my rebuttal (not too scummy in and of itself) but more interested in the fact that Safari took the general's words a bit out of context here. General said that he wasn't convinced I was scum. Safari rebutted the well if you don't think strike is scum...etc. not convinced=/=doesn't think.

unvote can't argue with that.

Unvotes the cop here nothing scummy just noting his post day 1 joke votes.

But now we have info. It will be invaluable later on.

Outting the cop =/= good info

Unless of course you are mafia looking for a good night kill.

No, because now we can use your investigation results to help us. And I doubt you really believe that you'll die tonight.

No, I think there is a doc. Still, it is not a good thing to out the cop D1.

True, but I figure there probably are more investigative roles. I think all of these games have been NV so far.

Another comment about possible game mechanics.

~End day 1 posts~

Well that's interesting. I would guess more a doctor save, but I suppose a roleblock could be just as well.

Did you manage to investigate anyone General? There's a possibility you were roleblocked too.

Scene flavor spec. a little bit of Follow The Cop.

To all who are asking, I was not roleblocked. I learned that someone is not sided with the mafia. I'm not outting the invest yet, as it is pretty confirmed that we have a doc. If a watcher was watching me last night, please don't out what you saw. Even if you got both the doc and a mafia, that would mean outting the doc and I really don't want that shit.

Yeah, Ionno, I would think that mafia wouldn't wanna WIFOM their nightkills, so it's possible the doc protected someone else.

Arguing wifom.

I always have the mafia assign someone to execute the kill because there are so many roles that depend on that information. Busdriver, roleblocker, jailkeeper, etc. Because I was mafia last game, I know edoc does require a single mobster execute the kill.

Game mechanics speculation. A little bit of meta on game mechanics

I always have the mafia assign someone to execute the kill because there are so many roles that depend on that information. Busdriver, roleblocker, jailkeeper, etc. Because I was mafia last game, I know edoc does require a single mobster execute the kill.

I thought you were town-aligned but were told you were mafia last game saf? But back to the point, edoc does specifically ask for who is performing the kill and who is being performed upon.

I was SK, but the mafia thought I was part of them. Technically, if all the mafia were dead, I would get 2 kills, one as SK and one as mafia. But yes, mafia did assign who made which kill, which is why the Night 1 flavor from greek had the god in chains flavor which I then had to try very hard to pin on Cronus.

And the reason why we had 1 kill almost all of the nights was because I wanted to hide my SKer extra nightkill ability in order to be able to endgame town a night sooner.

More meta.

So General, why won't you tell us who you investigated? I don't see how it could hurt the town, only help.

*shrugs* I don't see the harm in keeping it behind the bars for now. As long as the person isn't considered to be at risk of any lynch, I don't really feel there's strong to make them claim.

I agree. And if he clears someone, that person would probably be high on the mafia kill list anyways. With such a small game, every confirmed townie alive at endgame would increase the odds of a correct scum lynch.

Not much here didn't suggest this earlier when he asked TheGeneral who he investigated but that's FAR from conclusive evidence.

What we know:

Either the doc got lucky, or a roleblocker did.

General got an innocent. Won't reveal him so that the Daedra don't have an obvious target.

I'm not quite sure we have more than this. I'll look in day one's post see if there's anything else that caught my eye.

Another thing that I found while researching the Greek thread is that edoc said that he had trouble finding malicious roles for this pantheon, with one exception. This could mean that there is only one scum in this game, or he could have found someone else for the baddie to be with.

Interesting. Could be a third party SKer role of some sort? Maybe also investigation immune to buff the role a bit?

More set up speculation. What I'm noticing a lot about safari by this point. He's commenting a lot on non-specific game details but not really leading any cases. he's active but most of his posts seem to be only a step or two above fluff level and a lot of safe comments.

What we know:

Either the doc got lucky, or a roleblocker did.

General got an innocent. Won't reveal him so that the Daedra don't have an obvious target.

I'm not quite sure we have more than this. I'll look in day one's post see if there's anything else that caught my eye.

Another thing that I found while researching the Greek thread is that edoc said that he had trouble finding malicious roles for this pantheon, with one exception. This could mean that there is only one scum in this game, or he could have found someone else for the baddie to be with.

Interesting. Could be a third party SKer role of some sort? Maybe also investigation immune to buff the role a bit?

Perhaps something like that, although what you describe would make a Cop useless.

Although this entire thought is still conjecture with incredibly loose evidence behind it. I'm not going to put too much stock in it.

Ah right. Maybe one-shot bulletproof or something?

And if that's the case, then it's possible we have some third party roles. Maybe survivor or lyncher.

more set up speculation.

I'm not buying the claim, partly because the playstyle has not been indicative of a lover/mason claim. With a lover/mason claim, you have the assurance that at least 1 person is going to back you up. Avoiding conflict by not taking a stand doesn't really square with the role. And of course, voting the claimed cop...pretty much OMGUS.

unvote vote jonty

Vote late in the bandwagon after the claim.

Well, all I can say is explain why I voted for cop (it was unintentional). When I claimed mason-lover it was because we could talk at night as well as die with each other. Anyhow, [color=#00BF0000]vote Medefe[/color] he seemed very agressive on drake's mafia maths and has been generally inactive.

But the standard lover mechanic means that lovers can talk at night anyways. The mason claim is redundant.

well usually (from what i have read on wiki) if jonty is mafia, sound will be some type of power role, this is usually done for balancing reason, now of course there is nothing set in stone about that.

Now i would vote for holding off with jonty being lynched this day at least and let him die another day.

Not necessarily. Tarantino Mafia I put straight goon/VT lover mechanics. And neither jonty nor sound has claimed any other powers.

I would be a huge handicap to town if they were both town because then mafia would get an easy twofer, which is devastating in a game this size.

-Tails

Well, in Egypt town had 2 one-shot killing roles and I think the game had less players than this, so lovers aren't out of the question?

True, but if I may Meta a bit more, these games usually have some mechanics that change. Last game was the SK/Mafia traitor, so I wouldn't put it past edoc to put in a mafia/town lover mechanic this game.

some game spec to back up his beliefs. Not much really scummy to say here.

~end day 2 posts~

My guess would be a serial killer and a cult. On that note fos thegeneral simply because if there is a cult recruiter as it appears the town cop would be near the top of my list to recruit.

@victor: I don't know what you expect. My reasoning was mostly flavor spec and like a couple others I didn't quite believe that two town lovers would be in the game. I did not feel that line of reasoning needed to be restated.

That depends. A claimed town cop would probably lose their powers after they got recruited, so it would be a high risk recruitment as the cop would have to fake investigations.

I'm assuming we have a reviver. Could be Sker of some sort.

Wifom and set up spec. I'm also going to disagree about the recruitment of a cop. The negative side as i see it is that he's a high risk of night kill as well as the problems with fake investigations if he's been recruited however a cult leader may want to recruit the cop regardless as he can feed him investigation results he got before being recruited as well as take away the cop's ability to catch cult. This would backfire if cult was to show up innocent or third party when investigated however I find that unlikely in a game this small.

My guess would be a serial killer and a cult. On that note fos thegeneral simply because if there is a cult recruiter as it appears the town cop would be near the top of my list to recruit.

@victor: I don't know what you expect. My reasoning was mostly flavor spec and like a couple others I didn't quite believe that two town lovers would be in the game. I did not feel that line of reasoning needed to be restated.

That depends. A claimed town cop would probably lose their powers after they got recruited, so it would be a high risk recruitment as the cop would have to fake investigations.

I'm assuming we have a reviver. Also could be Sker or vig of some sort.

EBWOP

Ebwoping to put the vig part in.

So are we chalking up the death in Night 2 to a vig kill then? Doesn't necessarily rule out a SKer in my opinion.

Going to note this for later. Set up spec. Avoids direct involvement in the case.

Well I've spent most of the day defending myself and beyond what I've said about Thegeneral i've had nothing strong to go on case wise. My other suspicion goes against Safariguy but I have yet to read anything concrete to base that on.

Why me? I mean, the main point to come up today is a WIFOMy argument that thegeneral could be a recruited cultie, but frankly nothing has come up definitively one way or another.

This is a fair question. Which I'm hoping to answer in this post.

Well I'm stumped. You sure you don't want to give us your investigation results General?

If you die, they are of no value

Ok, I might have something that will get some discussion going.

Who/what are the anti town factions in this game?

1. Cult only
2. Cult and Mafia
3. Cult and SKer
4. All three

I think 4 is extremely unlikely. I'm leaning towards 3, but the lack of a NK on Night 1 makes me less sure.

What does everyone think?

More set up spec. Noting that he's leaning toward the SK cult option.

3 sounds likely. Edoc commented he could only find one maliciously aligned God.

Possible, but then that calls into question the purpose of the cult. Would the malicious god be more appropriate as Cult Recruiter or as SKer?

Game flavor spec.

When someone changes their playstyle, I take that as a possible scumtell. strike seems to have been rather disconnected from the discussion this game, and I don't buy the idea that being doc should change your playstyle. It's not like strike's regular playstyle tended to draw a lot of heat anyways.

vote strike wolf

When someone changes their playstyle, I take that as a possible scumtell. strike seems to have been rather disconnected from the discussion this game, and I don't buy the idea that being doc should change your playstyle. It's not like strike's regular playstyle tended to draw a lot of heat anyways.

vote strike wolf

EBWOP to add the Bold

"don't buy that being doc should change your playstyle" But you've been in enough games to know that it often does change playstyle. You've commented on it previously in other threads. Do you not believe that there is a doc in this game? Or are you just doubting my behavior?

Popping in to say hi! I'm drunk right now, so no long post. Serious fucking FOS on safguy for voting the uncc'd doc after claiming. That is some bullshit. If we don't have a cc, we can move on from there. If we do have a cc, we are lynching strike.

Again, read my justification. If we assume cult and SKer (which seems more likely to me due to no NK on Night 1) then doc loses a good amount of his usefulness. Our number 1 priority is looking for the cult leader, and if we use the power role recruitment WIFOM, strike would be high on the recruitment list now anyways.

Of course, if someone has information that we may have an SKer (roleblock on Night 1) then I'm definitely going to reconsider my vote, but the night actions seem to point towards cult only more than both.

So you're now saying you don't believe there is a cult and an SK when earlier you stated you believed there was both. Contradiction much?

Popping in to say hi! I'm drunk right now, so no long post. Serious fucking FOS on safguy for voting the uncc'd doc after claiming. That is some bullshit. If we don't have a cc, we can move on from there. If we do have a cc, we are lynching strike.

Again, read my justification. If we assume cult and SKer (which seems more likely to me due to no NK on Night 1) then doc loses a good amount of his usefulness. Our number 1 priority is looking for the cult leader, and if we use the power role recruitment WIFOM, strike would be high on the recruitment list now anyways.

Of course, if someone has information that we may have an SKer (roleblock on Night 1) then I'm definitely going to reconsider my vote, but the night actions seem to point towards cult only more than both.

From the protection stand point there is no difference between an SK kill or a Mafia kill so neither would affect the chance a doctor was in the game. Remember there was some kind of struggle depicted night 1 and a kill night 2. Do you want to chalk the Night 2 kill down as a vig and the Night 1 as something else?

Popping in to say hi! I'm drunk right now, so no long post. Serious fucking FOS on safguy for voting the uncc'd doc after claiming. That is some bullshit. If we don't have a cc, we can move on from there. If we do have a cc, we are lynching strike.

Again, read my justification. If we assume cult and SKer (which seems more likely to me due to no NK on Night 1) then doc loses a good amount of his usefulness. Our number 1 priority is looking for the cult leader, and if we use the power role recruitment WIFOM, strike would be high on the recruitment list now anyways.

Of course, if someone has information that we may have an SKer (roleblock on Night 1) then I'm definitely going to reconsider my vote, but the night actions seem to point towards cult only more than both.

Forgot to mention. The recruitment wifom is questionable. If the cult could recruit without the recruit losing ability (Everywhere's just said cultist did not say if he had any ability) than yeah I'd be pretty much at the top of the recruit list (only thing that would stop them is worry over a watcher and the killing role taking me out because I'm the doc). However if getting recruited to cult means you lose your ability than I'd have to imagine I'm pretty low on the list as cult would just as soon have me unwittingly protecting them as they would want me a nerfed cult who's likely to be killed because I had an important role. End WIFOM.

My responses to Safari anything in bold has been added or corrected for clarity's sake since the original posts.

Popping in to say hi! I'm drunk right now, so no long post. Serious fucking FOS on safguy for voting the uncc'd doc after claiming. That is some bullshit. If we don't have a cc, we can move on from there. If we do have a cc, we are lynching strike.

Again, read my justification. If we assume cult and SKer (which seems more likely to me due to no NK on Night 1) then doc loses a good amount of his usefulness. Our number 1 priority is looking for the cult leader, and if we use the power role recruitment WIFOM, strike would be high on the recruitment list now anyways.

Of course, if someone has information that we may have an SKer (roleblock on Night 1) then I'm definitely going to reconsider my vote, but the night actions seem to point towards cult only more than both.

From the protection stand point there is no difference between an SK kill or a Mafia kill so neither would affect the chance a doctor was in the game. Remember there was some kind of struggle depicted night 1 and a kill night 2. Do you want to chalk the Night 2 kill down as a vig and the Night 1 as something else?

That's what I'm leaning towards. Scene flavor can be somewhat unreliable (Night 1 kill in GP) and a struggle can mean several things. Did you say who you protected Nights 1 and 2? I might have missed that.

Just noting once again, the change in his position about game set up.

~End posts (for now)~

So what do I have?

1. has not started any cases this game. He has jumped on a few early (all on day one) but did not come up with his own cases and has bandwagoned late on the last two cases.
2. A lot of posts dealing with game set up and scene flavor. A good amount of fairly safe posts. Some seem to just be there to up his activity.
3. The contradiction. Stating first that he believed there to be an SK and Cult and changing his position after my claim. As well as a couple things that aren't quite contradictions but are close to being contradictions.

I will give Safari some credit as when he does vote he has backed up his position for why he's voted and he has been fairly active I just feel a good bit of the activity is more or less fluff. Overall I find this enough to place my vote behind.

Vote Safari

Honestly I wanted to look over at least one more person but I don't know how long it will take me so I'm getting this out while people still have time to react to it.

[safariguy5]

I was hoping someone was going to pick up on it, but I guess I have to make it more specific.

I am Amaterasu, Town Oracle. Each night, I get to ask the mod one question. The kicker is he answers in 4 characters or less, so Yes/No Questions are preferred.

Night 1 I asked how many townies there were. The answer was 10. So I knew it was either an SKer or Cult Recruiter. After no kills Night 1, I was fairly sure it was cult recruiter.

Night 2 I asked if MeDeFe was anti town. The answer was no.

So since the cult was killed, I know now it's cult only in the game. Which makes a town doctor a much less useful role. I get the feeling strike may very well be Tsukuyomi (spelling?) but that he might be another role.

[strike wolf]

Thank you. Now I can confidently say you are scum.

[safariguy5]

Thank you. Now I can confidently say you are scum.

I'd like to see how. Flavor spec? That didn't work out so well with the mason lynches.

[strike wolf]

Thank you. Now I can confidently say you are scum.

I'd like to see how. Flavor spec? That didn't work out so well with the mason lynches.

Because you say there is no anti-town killing role I pretty much know there is from my role and even if I am to be lynched than the rest of town will see that you were lying. Not to mention you only started the only cult talk after my claim. Before that you were pushing for a cult and SK set up. This implies that you are lying.

[safariguy5]

Thank you. Now I can confidently say you are scum.

I'd like to see how. Flavor spec? That didn't work out so well with the mason lynches.

Because you say there is no anti-town killing role I pretty much know there is from my role and even if I am to be lynched than the rest of town will see that you were lying. Not to mention you only started the only cult talk after my claim. Before that you were pushing for a cult and SK set up. This implies that you are lying.

I asked how many townies there were. So you're basically saying the mod is lying. I was trying to be subtle about it, but I figured nobody else got the hint. I'm not going to get into the WIFOM about how there was no NK Night 1, but I will point out that flavor wise, your character ate a god. Somehow that doesn't strike me as being very doctor like to me.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Lol Tails. where were you when everyone was voting for me?

haha last week was hectic for me.

Night 1 I asked how many townies there were. The answer was 10. So I knew it was either an SKer or Cult Recruiter. After no kills Night 1, I was fairly sure it was cult recruiter.

Hm. This would explain why I was so wrong earlier about the lovers being a major disadvantage to town. It is instead a handicap of sorts for a vastly inferior force.

However, it still doesn't shake. If there was only one cult recruiter at the beginning of the game... then we have a vig, who just happened to hit a recruited cultist. And we'd have to assume that there are some measures in place so he (recruiter) didn't get lynched/NKd D/N 1 and trigger end game town victory.

hm... This leads me to wonder about the vig then. If there truly is only the one vig, then his actions are a large detriment to town, because he doubles the loss rate (excepting last night where he scored a cultist). Which would make the addition of a doc plausible and very useful.

In fact, I am more inclined that perhaps due to some ability, the information you've been given, Saf, is obfuscated in some way to prevent the early detection of an SK out there, akin to the GF investigation proof ability. However, the absence of a nightkill for N1 kinda dampers that theory.

ugh I hate cults. I am not convinced of the Strike case, nor do I think Saf is lying. It's an awfully elaborate and bizarre claim, and is naturally going to invite some suspicion.

-Tails

[jonty125]

I think safairguys claim's sounds legit, but claiming then? Last time saf claimed not at L-2 he was scum but he could be a very powerful role. I'll think over it when my brain is not a mashed potato (Tomorrow).

[soundman]

Well I'm leaning towards believing both of them. We did have a night kill last night so it makes sense we would have a doctor. If we are to believe the claims so far, and I don't see a reason not to, then either Tail, Victor, Freezie, or Drake is the cult leader. My gut says Drake but that's mostly because he's been so quiet. Also if Saf is telling the truth I think he'll be a prime cult target.

[pancakemix]

Well I'm leaning towards believing both of them. We did have a night kill last night so it makes sense we would have a doctor. If we are to believe the claims so far, and I don't see a reason not to, then either Tail, Victor, Freezie, or Drake is the cult leader. My gut says Drake but that's mostly because he's been so quiet. Also if Saf is telling the truth I think he'll be a prime cult target.

I'm in for Drake. And I've been equally quiet because I've been letting this play out.

At this point, here are my thoughts: I still think SW hasn't been his normal self. "I'm playing different because I'm doc" doesn't cut it. Either it's always different or it's always the same. In regard to his case on saf:

1. has not started any cases this game. He has jumped on a few early (all on day one) but did not come up with his own cases and has bandwagoned late on the last two cases.
2. A lot of posts dealing with game set up and scene flavor. A good amount of fairly safe posts. Some seem to just be there to up his activity.
3. The contradiction. Stating first that he believed there to be an SK and Cult and changing his position after my claim. As well as a couple things that aren't quite contradictions but are close to being contradictions.

You say that like everyone starts at least one case a day. That's a bit ridiculous. You also say this on Day 3, when there have been all of 3 cases.

I can't say for certain whether or not he's padding his post count. What I do know is that it never hurts to know how the mod works or how the flavor is set up. That, and I also know that Saf works from that quite often.

He didn't contradict himself there. If fact, he seems to be saying EXACTLY that there is likely SK+Cult, but Cult only is more likely. I don't see what you're getting.

Honestly, I think strike is not quite on the level here, but there are a few other things worth noting about this scenario.

1. Amaterasu shunned Tsumukyori when he killed the god of food, declaring him an "evil god".
2. Japanese emperors were said to have descended from Amaterasu. This seems like a plus in terms of pantheon positioning.
3. There was a random tidbit at the end of Amaterasu's Wikipedia article about "The Cult of the Sun". It seems to have very little to do with anything else in the article, but given our current situation I thought I'd point it out.

I'm going to keep my vote where it is for the moment. Just thought I'd throw a few things out there.

[strike wolf]

1. I am holding Safari to a slightly higher standard than some because he's been more active than most in this game yet most of his time was dedicated to game flavor spec and he was always a follower on the cases he did vote for.

2. It doesn't but there's a difference when about 80% of his posts were dedicated to that and it's an easy way to seem pro town without hunting scum directly.

3. Safariguy wrote: "1. Cult only
2. Cult and Mafia
3. Cult and SKer
4. All three

I think 4 is extremely unlikely. I'm leaning towards 3, but the lack of a NK on Night 1 makes me less sure."

He clearly stated that he was leaning towards the third option (the SK + cult option) which in this case is not only contradictory to what he's said since but also would be an intentionally misleading comment if he does really know that there was only one scum. It's one thing to not pull for the option you "Know" to be true and keep it hidden that you know but it's another thing to be intentionally misleading about what you should already know. In general, town roles do not try to mislead town intentionally.

Safariguy wrote: I asked how many townies there were. So you're basically saying the mod is lying.

This is weak. Obviously I'm accusing you of lying about what the mod told you not the mod of lying.

[safariguy5]

1. I am holding Safari to a slightly higher standard than some because he's been more active than most in this game yet most of his time was dedicated to game flavor spec and he was always a follower on the cases he did vote for.

2. It doesn't but there's a difference when about 80% of his posts were dedicated to that and it's an easy way to seem pro town without hunting scum directly.

3. Safariguy wrote: "1. Cult only
2. Cult and Mafia
3. Cult and SKer
4. All three

I think 4 is extremely unlikely. I'm leaning towards 3, but the lack of a NK on Night 1 makes me less sure."

He clearly stated that he was leaning towards the third option (the SK + cult option) which in this case is not only contradictory to what he's said since but also would be an intentionally misleading comment if he does really know that there was only one scum. It's one thing to not pull for the option you "Know" to be true and keep it hidden that you know but it's another thing to be intentionally misleading about what you should already know. In general, town roles do not try to mislead town intentionally.

Safariguy wrote: I asked how many townies there were. So you're basically saying the mod is lying.

This is weak. Obviously I'm accusing you of lying about what the mod told you not the mod of lying.

How about me trying to draw out the cult recruiter? Notice that I labelled the cult only option as number 1. I was going to see if someone was going to go all in and claim that we both have a cult AND a SKer and then spring the night action on them. I don't do what I do for no reason you know.

[jonty125]

I don't see how if someone thought we had cult and SK was a cult recruiter? Either that, or I am misunderstanding saf's post.

[safariguy5]

I don't see how if someone thought we had cult and SK was a cult recruiter? Either that, or I am misunderstanding saf's post.

I was looking to see if anyone was going to say that they were really sure we had an SKer. Because the number one thing cult wants to do is avoid getting cultists killed. The perfect way to throw people off their trail is to get everyone hunting for a SKer. Especially if that SKer is non existent.

[edocsil]

The deadline is technically tomorrow evening. However there is zero chance that I will be able to do a scene on Wed. In light of that deadline is Thursday night.

[pancakemix]

So would anyone else like to comment on saf's claim? Anyone? Bueller?

[Victor Sullivan]

Clearly we have to lynch saf or strike. 'Twould be more helpful if we knew whether or not we have a vig, but I don't think any townie would be too keen on outing someone so "recruitable".

Gah, I don't know who to choose.

-Sully

[TheGeneral2112]

So would anyone else like to comment on saf's claim? Anyone? Bueller?

I think at this point we should leave him around. A simple question to ask the mod tonight would be, "Who is the cult leader?" Then report back.

[Victor Sullivan]

Four characters would do a lot, fo sho!

Vict
TheG
stri
etc...

-Sully

[freezie]

I shall say it again: I seriously doubt a doc to be in this game. My vote stays today. Whatever people say.

[pancakemix]

So would anyone else like to comment on saf's claim? Anyone? Bueller?

I think at this point we should leave him around. A simple question to ask the mod tonight would be, "Who is the cult leader?" Then report back.

And then he gets recruited. Not really gonna cut it.