Gen.LeeGettinhed [warned]

[WILLIAMS5232]

no matter how right or wrong someone feels they are. there is a time to give up. unless you just enjoy the fight. however meaningless it is.



for fun, i like to read through glg's game chats.i've done it for months since all these C&A reports have started surfacing. i don't see how this has gone on for so long. anyone with half a sense of right can read these conversations and know that this is just plain bad sportsmanship.

i'll never be convinced that it's not.

especially when he refuses game invites to maps that the "VICTIMS" request to play.
Game 10763820 an example

call it risk management if you like.

[Uncle Death]

Chariot's report brings new evidence against GLG with written testimony that he is breaking this unwritten rule: Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden.

If it is obvious that any gross abuse of the game is forbidden, and it is obvious to most of us that GLG is abusing the game, then why hasn't something been done about it? Admin's have given themselves the power to stop this sort of thing on a case by case basis. Why do they not take advantage of it? If nothing is done, GLG will continue to drive away business in the form of both new inexperienced players, and experienced disillusioned players. He will continue to promote and flaunt his methods, which cause other players to adopt them.

I hope the C&A mods and the admins will stop this now, by applying the above rule to this case. They have every right to do so, and by doing so would demonstrate their unwillingness to support GLG's methods.

Well I think it's a stretch to claim GLG is driving away any amount of business...

Since CC has repeatedly declared what he is doing as within the rules and there by telling him it is all ok it would be wrong for them to take any kind of disciplinary action in re of this WITHOUT a specific rule change and a friendly request to GLG to follow a specific guideline that they would need to specify so that he may remain within the rules.

In other words tell him to stop the cheap underhanded points harvesting, give him a new guideline, a conquerors rule, to follow and a fair chance for him to follow it - whether we like it or not he has adhered to the rules by not targeting new recruits and has mostly stayed away from cooks and cadets too.

Well said and a great idea. A Conqueror's rule or set of guidelines is a great idea. We should have a conduct code or a honor system of some sort for the champion that represents us all. Or is that just some idealistic dream? I like to dream.

[tkr4lf]

I never got an invite, this is BS

yeah, me neither.

no to mention he's been using MY map for farming and i never got my cut.
GLG i expect a few hundred points by tomorrow or else i'm taking down that map and you'll be forced to farm your points differently.

Can you actually do that?

Because that would be really funny...take away his cash cow map.

[Chariot of Fire]

The best solution may be to do away with the Conqueror title altogether, thereby removing the prestige associated with it (or, more accurately, that should be associated with it) and which has been one of the greatest elements that has encouraged farming & ranching to the detriment of this site.

Regrettably GLG's methods have spawned a host of copycat ranchers, using private 1v1 games via invite to boost their own status (see ViperOverLord for example). Thus a warning to one player doesn't necessarily suffice. A rule change is needed that stipulates anything that is considered unfair or unsporting conduct in the opinion of a panel of moderators shall cease forthwith with a written warning, and that any subsequent infringement will result in a points reset. Simple as that. And if the mods ever have any doubt as to what constitutes improper conduct then they only need listen to the voices of the multitude.

[ljex]

The best solution may be to do away with the Conqueror title altogether, thereby removing the prestige associated with it (or, more accurately, that should be associated with it) and which has been one of the greatest elements that has encouraged farming & ranching to the detriment of this site.

Regrettably GLG's methods have spawned a host of copycat ranchers, using private 1v1 games via invite to boost their own status (see ViperOverLord for example). Thus a warning to one player doesn't necessarily suffice. A rule change is needed that stipulates anything that is considered unfair or unsporting conduct in the opinion of a panel of moderators shall cease forthwith with a written warning, and that any subsequent infringement will result in a points reset. Simple as that. And if the mods ever have any doubt as to what constitutes improper conduct then they only need listen to the voices of the multitude.

listening to the voices of the multitude is quite unfair. Surely there will be so many rules against freestyle players it wont even be fun anymore which is not fair to those of us who enjoy the setting and play without farming on it. I agree there needs to be a rule change but what you suggest would take the fun out of conquerclub for many players

[Chariot of Fire]

I only added that last bit as tongue-in-cheek. I really do believe the mods can determine amongst themselves right from wrong, plus it is their authority (not the multitude's) that holds sway.

I did only say 'if they have any doubt' and not that the multitude's opinion is law.

I know if I was sitting on the fence over something I would seize every opportunity to learn what both sides of the argument were and also what the majority are in favour of.

[Bruceswar]

Just a quick thought... The majority do not give a shit or have never posted about it. The Hardcore people of CC care way more than most.

[D00MandD3A7H]

It is unethical, unsportsmanlike, and cheap to get the win percentage GLG has from his "ranching" methods. I don't care about how many points he has, just the way he got them. 81% without public games is too much, everyone high up has a tendency to get jealous when they see a winning percentage higher than theirs, BUT not when they use discernment and discover how it was accomplished.

Role Models for Conqueror: (my opinion, it is about how you got there or are heading there)
Player Score Games Won
mc05025 4828 348 176 (51%)
BRADDY 4484 2712 1347 (50%)
comic boy 4029 1970 712 (36%)
Big Whiskey 3780 9925 6630 (67%)
Aaarrrrggh 3742 752 368 (49%)
cachejob 3668 726 365 (50%)
Master Fenrir 3563 3256 2053 (63%)
joriki 3678 4765 3082 (65%)
demy7 3861 1774 1014 (57%)
ljex 3206 10220 5351 (52%)
King_Herpes 2720 8592 6675 (78%)
demonfork 2044 7283 4928 (68%)


Game 8769748 He found me in live chat and preyed on me too. I consider myself honored to have played in a game against him. I thought I might have a chance to beat him at it, but lost. It was a map I never played before, and had little experience on freestyle, not to mention it was set up as a casual game. Well after the game in the live chat he gave me all the tips, but it was only the tips the map details describe to me, which at the time were a little foggy. I learned to like the map and it is my 3rd best map.
I dont hate the man, I hate his tactics. Enough said!

Make him play Colonels and up.

Man up GLG, play someone on your skill level.

[Chuuuuck]

I hate the fact that for years we have had to have these conversations about nearly every conqueror who has worked his way up the stupid scoreboard. It amazes me that no one on the admin side of things has been smart enough to figure out a way to stop these conqueror's once and for all.

I would be interested in seeing the numbers of what % of games are played as sequential and what % are freestyle. I'd bet it is 80/20 or better. Then I'd be interested in what % are 1v1 freestyle games and/or what % of the CC population plays 1v1 freestyle. I bet it is less than 5% (I actually think 5% is probably very generous). Then point out how amazing it is that 95% of us who enjoy this site, have to continuously watch 5% of the population, who play an entirely different game than us, constantly float to the top spots.

Do you not think it is ridiculous that nearly every conqueror we can have these days gets there with 1v1 freestyle games. We are literally playing two different games, yet you put us on the same scoreboard and tell everyone they are the best.

GLG couldn't strategies his way out of a paper bag in a sequential game...

[Bruceswar]

Freestyle player are far more than 5% I would gander 30% of CC plays freestyle quite often. I am not saying 30% of CC is good at though. There is a difference. With Seq, you can lose before you even move. That never happens in freestyle because you always play at the same time or have the chance to. With that said mistakes show up more in freestyle by far thus giving players who can do it well and mistake free way better odds of winning.


P.S. When CC started all there was, was freestyle.

[SPARTACUS1974]

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Re: hi, quick speed game? I can send password.
Sent: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:51 pm
From: SPARTACUS1974
To: Gen.LeeGettinhed

yea im in a few tourny sorry just playing a few doodle then im off to the pub.

1 of the 3 message's i got off glg when i was a corporal not had any invites in a while.

this is my reply but you can see what he wrote he does prey on noob players and he also looks at your profile and makes conversation out of it to make him look like he actully cares about new players he saw i was a fisherman so started talking as if he knew all about it .
i think cc should make a rule that unless players are friends they cannot invite anyone to a game more than 2 ranks under them this would stop the abuse of the new players.

[KraphtOne]

Freestyle player are far more than 5% I would gander 30% of CC plays freestyle quite often. I am not saying 30% of CC is good at though.

I'd say less than 1% of cc is "good" at freestyle... and i wouldn't put GLG down as being a 1%er... he just plays settings that are COMPLETELY alien to someone new to the game...

As much as he lives on this site i'm sure he's decent at other settings...

I do think it is unfair that freestyle and sequential are bunched together as the same conqueror. All i'd have to do is foe the 10 people that would have even a chance at beating me at speed mogul and bide my time... so boring though... i end up just playing random or classic so people will actually join my games... can't understand the fun in playing 1 or 2 games a day and being online for 8 hours for the right opponent... but it has been done by at least 3 of the conquerors i saw on the "people that did it without farming" list...

[GoranZ]

Just a quick thought... The majority do not give a shit or have never posted about it. The Hardcore people of CC care way more than most.

Those that do not care do not count... Example JFK was elected by only 31% of the registered voters*

*34 mil from 109 mil.

[KraphtOne]

ljex 3206 10220 5351 (52%)
King_Herpes 2720 8592 6675 (78%)
demonfork 2044 7283 4928 (68%)

Let's check out the settings these guys were using for the 100s of games leading up to their title as conqueror...

City Mogul 1vs1 freestyle stats (all have relative rank of noob farmer btw)

Demonfork - 398 from 435(91%) +1765 longest winning streak 86 games
Ljex - 348 from 441(79%) +2077 longest winning streak 41 games
King_Herpes - 2294 from 2372(97%) +6801 longest winning streak 146 games

even I myself was impressed at KH's numbers there... so insane ya find yourself more impressed than mad...

[Dako]

KH is a god of freestyle City Mogul.

[jiminski]

Freestyle player are far more than 5% I would gander 30% of CC plays freestyle quite often. I am not saying 30% of CC is good at though.

I'd say less than 1% of cc is "good" at freestyle... and i wouldn't put GLG down as being a 1%er... he just plays settings that are COMPLETELY alien to someone new to the game...

As much as he lives on this site i'm sure he's decent at other settings...

I do think it is unfair that freestyle and sequential are bunched together as the same conqueror. All i'd have to do is foe the 10 people that would have even a chance at beating me at speed mogul and bide my time... so boring though... i end up just playing random or classic so people will actually join my games... can't understand the fun in playing 1 or 2 games a day and being online for 8 hours for the right opponent... but it has been done by at least 3 of the conquerors i saw on the "people that did it without farming" list...

True enough, so probably they deserve to be Conqueror just for their slavish devotion to that goal. The initiated know that getting to that spot and staying there can be an incredibly laborious task. Perhaps most people who've been here and in the forums for a while also know that it is 'normally' less a testament to skill than bloody-minded endurance (and having nothing else to do) which most of us could not or would not complete.

Freestyle farming is as steroids to the athlete, through years of the additional help of various courses the bar has been pushed beyond the reach of unassisted man. Now, unless you are a freak of nature, if you wish to break a record you must have a newb-injection. It doesn't mean you don't have to possess a talent or that you are not determined, it just means you are willing to bend the rules in order to get gold.

I say 'bend' and not 'break' the rules, as JetJeff perhaps rightly says, only the rules of fair-play and common decency are being corrupted but those are not the rules which we are judged upon on Conquerclub in this case. (Though, very refreshingly, i see many a brightly coloured username coming out against this behaviour.) But should we and could we punish this poor deluded fellow under current guidelines?
The closest thing to cover it is "......systematically "farming" new recruits" - i think he has sneakily steered away from any new recruits hasn't he?

So is there room to make a ruling on this based upon Admin opinion and some vagary of CC guidelines. It's a tough one to turn down i do concede but we also do not want too much subjectivity to wrest in the hands of the arbiters, prevailing 'common-sense' rulings burned more witches than Monty Python did after all.
Although this little fellow in question is akin to the plaintiff getting off of a crime due to a legal technicality and not due to absence of guilt, i am not sure he can be found guilty retrospectively. He found the loop-hole which the Conqueror generally does, until it's closed he'll continue making a mockery of the number one spot.

So the best we can hope for is for us all to know that he is of questionable moral standing, that his number one spot is largely meaningless other than as allusion to his need for more sunlight and the soft delight of genuine human touch. And just maybe CC will add another bye-law so he can't keep mugging the unsuspecting.

- but what is the nature of any such provision?
A 'Conquerer's code of ethics?' really should it stand alone? can't we make it so all players have to bear witness to the scrutiny of honour?

[Jdsizzleslice]

Chariot's report brings new evidence against GLG with written testimony that he is breaking this unwritten rule: Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden.

If it is obvious that any gross abuse of the game is forbidden, and it is obvious to most of us that GLG is abusing the game, then why hasn't something been done about it? Admin's have given themselves the power to stop this sort of thing on a case by case basis. Why do they not take advantage of it? If nothing is done, GLG will continue to drive away business in the form of both new inexperienced players, and experienced disillusioned players. He will continue to promote and flaunt his methods, which cause other players to adopt them.

I hope the C&A mods and the admins will stop this now, by applying the above rule to this case. They have every right to do so, and by doing so would demonstrate their unwillingness to support GLG's methods.

Well I think it's a stretch to claim GLG is driving away any amount of business...

Since CC has repeatedly declared what he is doing as within the rules and there by telling him it is all ok it would be wrong for them to take any kind of disciplinary action in re of this WITHOUT a specific rule change and a friendly request to GLG to follow a specific guideline that they would need to specify so that he may remain within the rules.

In other words tell him to stop the cheap underhanded points harvesting, give him a new guideline, a conquerors rule, to follow and a fair chance for him to follow it - whether we like it or not he has adhered to the rules by not targeting new recruits and has mostly stayed away from cooks and cadets too.

Well said and a great idea. A Conqueror's rule or set of guidelines is a great idea. We should have a conduct code or a honor system of some sort for the champion that represents us all. Or is that just some idealistic dream? I like to dream.

Not necessarily JUST for the CONQUEROR, but for every high ranking person over a CPT.

This however does not include public games set up by you... If 10 privates join 10 of your public games, then there is nothing wrong, it is their fault for joining. However, private games are different. Where as public games are saying, "I'll take on anyone" private games are saying "I'll play... who I want."

Not don't get me wrong... the invite system on here is great! We use them for tournaments and to play major 6-8 player games and possibly more reasons. But playing the same general rank from Cook - Corporal First Class, who have no idea what to do if they are a new player, is just plain and unacceptable.

CC policies need to be changed soon, because if this does not change soon or NO action is taken, I myself will choose a map, get 99% win rate on it, and start to play Cooks who have no idea what to do to gain points. Because if no actions is taken, it is showing that any farming/ranching for anyone is LEGAL, there is nothing wrong with it (which there is), and that the MODs will do nothing to stop you in any way.

[Night Strike]

Because if no actions is taken, it is showing that any farming/ranching for anyone is LEGAL, there is nothing wrong with it (which there is), and that the MODs will do nothing to stop you in any way.

Let's just clear up the fact that it's not the MODs who do nothing on this subject. I'm guessing that if you took a poll of all the mods on this subject, the large majority would be in favor of better rules. And there might even be a majority for a punishment for GLG as the rules currently stand. Since this has to do with the rules of gamplay, only the ADMINs can change those rules. We MODs are ultimately powerless if the admins don't change or clarify the rules.

[Gen.LeeGettinhed]

. . . A rule change is needed that stipulates anything that is considered unfair or unsporting conduct in the opinion of a panel of moderators . . . And if the mods ever have any doubt as to what constitutes improper conduct then they only need listen to the voices of the multitude.

ah, a "panel of moderators" and "the multitude":
-created the Salem Witch Trials
-in the deep south of the US would have legalized lynchings of minorities

The problem is "opinion of what is fair and unsporting conduct". Many of you would say bunting/base stealing is unfair/unsporting in US baseball -- only home runs count. Jeeeeeeeez

[Jdsizzleslice]

Because if no actions is taken, it is showing that any farming/ranching for anyone is LEGAL, there is nothing wrong with it (which there is), and that the MODs will do nothing to stop you in any way.

Let's just clear up the fact that it's not the MODs who do nothing on this subject. I'm guessing that if you took a poll of all the mods on this subject, the large majority would be in favor of better rules. And there might even be a majority for a punishment for GLG as the rules currently stand. Since this has to do with the rules of gamplay, only the ADMINs can change those rules. We MODs are ultimately powerless if the admins don't change or clarify the rules.

SorRy night strike and others: I did mean admins instead. My mistake.

[ljex]

ljex 3206 10220 5351 (52%)
King_Herpes 2720 8592 6675 (78%)
demonfork 2044 7283 4928 (68%)

Let's check out the settings these guys were using for the 100s of games leading up to their title as conqueror...

City Mogul 1vs1 freestyle stats (all have relative rank of noob farmer btw)

Demonfork - 398 from 435(91%) +1765 longest winning streak 86 games
Ljex - 348 from 441(79%) +2077 longest winning streak 41 games
King_Herpes - 2294 from 2372(97%) +6801 longest winning streak 146 games

even I myself was impressed at KH's numbers there... so insane ya find yourself more impressed than mad...

I didn't use city mogul to get to conqueror...i used oasis manual quads.

Also cant remember who said it but someone said all recent conquerors used 1vs 1 freestyle to get there which is not true i can think of 3-4 of the recent ones who used other methods to get there.

[Chuuuuck]

Freestyle player are far more than 5% I would gander 30% of CC plays freestyle quite often. I am not saying 30% of CC is good at though. There is a difference. With Seq, you can lose before you even move. That never happens in freestyle because you always play at the same time or have the chance to. With that said mistakes show up more in freestyle by far thus giving players who can do it well and mistake free way better odds of winning.


P.S. When CC started all there was, was freestyle.

I am not saying % of people that play some freestyle every once in a while. I am saying total % of games that are freestyle compared to sequential. I doubt it is near 30%.... in fact, I just checked completed games for each, my computer nearly froze running the searches, but freestyle games make up 17.5%.

Then, I am saying the % of the populations that relies on their points and ConquerClub fun mainly from freestyle, is probably even smaller than that. Then you take that very select group of people, and yet they are ALWAYS at the top of the scoreboard for the game the rest of us enjoy in a completely different way. And on top of that, they are given the status as being "better" than all of us, although that person would never play a single one of us in the top 200 because A) they know they are likely to lose, and B) they will lose to many points compared to how often they will in. When a system is set up so that the top of the leaderboard can't afford to play the other people at the top, then the system is messed up.

Just a quick thought... The majority do not give a shit or have never posted about it. The Hardcore people of CC care way more than most.

This is actually true. But it makes this problem worse. "Most" don't acknowledge the problem or care. They are just playing games. The problem is, the victims he is taking advantage of, are these "most." No one that knows what he is doing agrees to his games nor does he ask them. They see the Conqueror and are like "oh cool, he wants to play, he must be really good." Then they see how he became conqueror first hand, and it leaves a bad taste in their mouth and they start to realize how the hierarchy of conquerclub works.

[ubcman64]

I hate the fact that for years we have had to have these conversations about nearly every conqueror who has worked his way up the stupid scoreboard. It amazes me that no one on the admin side of things has been smart enough to figure out a way to stop these conqueror's once and for all.

get rid of the scoreboard.....problem solved. i would venture to say that most people on here don't care about it anyway.

[Evolution299]

. . . A rule change is needed that stipulates anything that is considered unfair or unsporting conduct in the opinion of a panel of moderators . . . And if the mods ever have any doubt as to what constitutes improper conduct then they only need listen to the voices of the multitude.

ah, a "panel of moderators" and "the multitude":
-created the Salem Witch Trials
-in the deep south of the US would have legalized lynchings of minorities

The problem is "opinion of what is fair and unsporting conduct". Many of you would say bunting/base stealing is unfair/unsporting in US baseball -- only home runs count. Jeeeeeeeez

Actually, I don't think anyone is saying that bunting or base stealing is unfair etc. Especially since that is a bad analogy. And in regards to the salem witch trials and lynchings, that is a bit extreme. You could also say a "panel of moderators", better known as a "jury of your peers" have also put away some of the most notorious and violent criminals known to man.

I know you are just trying to skew the facts by using outlandish comparisons GLG, but keep it in the ball park.

Have a nice day.

[codeblue1018]

. . . A rule change is needed that stipulates anything that is considered unfair or unsporting conduct in the opinion of a panel of moderators . . . And if the mods ever have any doubt as to what constitutes improper conduct then they only need listen to the voices of the multitude.

ah, a "panel of moderators" and "the multitude":
-created the Salem Witch Trials
-in the deep south of the US would have legalized lynchings of minorities

The problem is "opinion of what is fair and unsporting conduct". Many of you would say bunting/base stealing is unfair/unsporting in US baseball -- only home runs count. Jeeeeeeeez

Probably the most absurd analogies I have ever read. You're circling the drain mate; eventually the contents are flushed. Continue grasping as straws, it's rather comical.