HP: fight for freedom. Game over. Wizards won.

[spiesr]

I was being sarcastic.

Yes, you were using sarcasm to dismiss the possibility that Nebuchadnezzar was acting on a scum plan to set Safariguy up for today's lynch, in a manner which I find somewhat scummy...

[Iron Butterfly]

I was being sarcastic.

Yes, you were using sarcasm to dismiss the possibility that Nebuchadnezzar was acting on a scum plan to set Safariguy up for today's lynch, in a manner which I find somewhat scummy...

So you now have proof he hade a scum plan? There are many possibilities. I happen to beleive that Mafia would not be so blatent in their attack. That is the possibility I choose to believe.

[spiesr]

I was being sarcastic.

Yes, you were using sarcasm to dismiss the possibility that Nebuchadnezzar was acting on a scum plan to set Safariguy up for today's lynch, in a manner which I find somewhat scummy...

So you now have proof he hade a scum plan? There are many possibilities. I happen to beleive that Mafia would not be so blatent in their attack. That is the possibility I choose to believe.

Nope. I think what I think and you think what you think. That isn't the problem. The only thing I consider scummy about it is the way you went about your argument.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Alright, let's open my head up a little bit.

1. I went after Safari, for reasons I stated. I still don't see how my logic is faulty. Maybe what's throwing me off is that mafia managed to neutralize all of our protective roles last night. They would have had to block our "bodyguard", stop our doctor (I'm assuming there is a doctor), and also, there would be no watcher or tracker (whichever role it is) who targeted jonty at all. How does this make any sense to anyone? The only thing in my mind that allowed for all of the above to happen, was that we don't in fact have a bodyguard, and mafia simply blocked the doc. Given that most people failed to see my logic or why I was attacking safari, I'm giving up on the case for today.

2. I also went after safari, to see what/who would take the opportunity to try to lynch me, as I was the first case against a claimed townie. It's still early, but a couple of people couldn't resist voting me...Leehar, Dazza, and everywhere. Everywhere made the case...I don't like it or agree with his logic, but fine, at least he made a case. Dazza...is this the second time he's jumped on town without a real strong post on his own? Leehar...holy bandwagon! I hate to jump my vote around as it seems scummy...so what do I do here? If I cast a vote on Leehar, I'll get beat up for jumping my vote. If I wait, I'll get beat up for voting later on...grrrr...

Meh...UNVOTE VOTE Leehar

[pancakemix]

Alright, let's open my head up a little bit.

1. I went after Safari, for reasons I stated. I still don't see how my logic is faulty. Maybe what's throwing me off is that mafia managed to neutralize all of our protective roles last night. They would have had to block our "bodyguard", stop our doctor (I'm assuming there is a doctor), and also, there would be no watcher or tracker (whichever role it is) who targeted jonty at all. How does this make any sense to anyone? The only thing in my mind that allowed for all of the above to happen, was that we don't in fact have a bodyguard, and mafia simply blocked the doc. Given that most people failed to see my logic or why I was attacking safari, I'm giving up on the case for today.

2. I also went after safari, to see what/who would take the opportunity to try to lynch me, as I was the first case against a claimed townie. It's still early, but a couple of people couldn't resist voting me...Leehar, Dazza, and everywhere. Everywhere made the case...I don't like it or agree with his logic, but fine, at least he made a case. Dazza...is this the second time he's jumped on town without a real strong post on his own? Leehar...holy bandwagon! I hate to jump my vote around as it seems scummy...so what do I do here? If I cast a vote on Leehar, I'll get beat up for jumping my vote. If I wait, I'll get beat up for voting later on...grrrr...

Meh...UNVOTE VOTE Leehar

I think you're very right to vote Leehar. His post is blatantly apathetic. I personally want to hear more from him, but his prospects aren't looking good at this point.

[Iron Butterfly]

I would be comfortable voting Leehar as well. Vote Leehar

(Pretty bad when you cant trust your doubles tourny partner *grin*)

[spiesr]

1. I went after Safari, for reasons I stated. I still don't see how my logic is faulty. Maybe what's throwing me off is that mafia managed to neutralize all of our protective roles last night. They would have had to block our "bodyguard", stop our doctor (I'm assuming there is a doctor), and also, there would be no watcher or tracker (whichever role it is) who targeted jonty at all. How does this make any sense to anyone? The only thing in my mind that allowed for all of the above to happen, was that we don't in fact have a bodyguard, and mafia simply blocked the doc. Given that most people failed to see my logic or why I was attacking safari, I'm giving up on the case for today.

Well, it depends, there are explanations for how this could have happened. The doctor (assuming we have a sane one) may have thought Safariguy would be successful in cover Jonty and then either used his protection on Safariguy to try to keep him alive or thought that the scum would not target Jonty (because he might have thought they though they would not be successful) and then tried to save someone else. Or if the mafia used a busdriver to make the kill, in which case any protections aimed at Jonty would have been rendered moot. As for a watcher, if we actually have one and he watched Jonty last night then he should come forward. In any normal scenario at least one of the people who the watcher would have seen last night would be scum. (Barring the possibility of a mafia ninja.)

[strike wolf]

Now that we have a nice little bandwagon going heres somthing that bothers me. The only thing Neb is guilty of is his WIFOM argument when confronting Safari. If you read his posts from the beggining they are perfectly reasonable. When confronted with his logic he backs down.

Neb is the only one who has put his ass on the line to create a case against someone. Mafia does not put there asses on the line they let Town do that for them. Now we have people crawling out of the woodwork like Dazza saying "almost like it was planned."

While I do not agree with what Neb said in his argument I do not beleive that makes him mafia. Weather you agree with Neb or not he at least has played like Town. He has stated his conviction of why he beleives someone is Mafia.

We have 5 or 6 mafia , which is perfect to create a blood frenzy on him. Leehar, who has pretty much been invisible, says he is bandwagoning for no real reason and Dazza enters with his super scummy statement.

Wifomy. IF I was mafia I'd have at least a couple join a case on the guy we framed by preventing his action.

Also what makes you believe 5 or 6? I was think more 4-5.

Now that we have a nice little bandwagon going heres somthing that bothers me. The only thing Neb is guilty of is his WIFOM argument when confronting Safari. If you read his posts from the beggining they are perfectly reasonable. When confronted with his logic he backs down.

Neb is the only one who has put his ass on the line to create a case against someone. Mafia does not put there asses on the line they let Town do that for them. Now we have people crawling out of the woodwork like Dazza saying "almost like it was planned."

While I do not agree with what Neb said in his argument I do not beleive that makes him mafia. Weather you agree with Neb or not he at least has played like Town. He has stated his conviction of why he beleives someone is Mafia.

We have 5 or 6 mafia , which is perfect to create a blood frenzy on him. Leehar, who has pretty much been invisible, says he is bandwagoning for no real reason and Dazza enters with his super scummy statement.

So you don't believe that mafia make plans at night to get someone lynched?

Whenever I have been mafia that is exactly what we have tried to do.

So you think mafia will be the guys who are not taking any opinion on anything?

You have added nothing and it is noticable. You add a sentence here and a sentence there parroting everyone else with nothing substantial. I knew my posting would raise hackles.

Tell me Dazza when you say "Almost...as if it was planned" do you mean to say you beleive it was planned or you dont beleive it was planned? You dont offer your opinion one way or the other...you just throw it in there for someone else to pick up and chew on amd run with. Now THAT is scum tactics. Hide in the back and throw out little nuggets to raise doubts for Town when the time is right.

So Mafia said in their meeting..."OK lets block safari...and then one of us will hammer the point home...if they do it forceful enough folks are bound to beleive it and vote to lynch Safari...Town is after all really stupid and wont pick up on it".

because everything is always that straightforward. What it does is cast doubt on Safari's role.

So Mafia said in their meeting..."OK lets block safari...and then one of us will hammer the point home...if they do it forceful enough folks are bound to beleive it and vote to lynch Safari...Town is after all really stupid and wont pick up on it".

FOS Iron Butterfly for strawmanning. You are assuming too much about how the scum would plan things now. Of course the scum wouldn't purposefully plan anything that obtuse. However, planing to attempt to case doubt upon Safariguy by blocking him or whatever is certainly something they could come up with. And then a relatively inexperienced member of their group not managing to have the appropriate subtlety when handling the manner the next day? That is something that I can see happening pretty easily.

I was being sarcastic.

Obviously but it's also clear what you were trying to say with the sarcasm so this is little but rediracting.

Since I don't really have anything else to go for, and I've run past my initial mafia enthusiasm I'll just bandwagon and vote Nebuchadnezar

I can agree that this is pretty apathetic.

[thehippo8]

I am in agreement that Leehar has done his chips. Time for a claim or you're gone. I'd like to get back to Iron Butterfly tomorrow, but I have to agree with the majority today. unvote vote Leehar

[chapcrap]

I would be comfortable voting Leehar as well. Vote Leehar

(Pretty bad when you cant trust your doubles tourny partner *grin*)

Voting Leehar for being apathetic in his vote and this is how you do it? Hypocrite?

I am in agreement that Leehar has done his chips. Time for a claim or you're gone. I'd like to get back to Iron Butterfly tomorrow, but I have to agree with the majority today. unvote vote Leehar

Majority? What majority? And this post isn't much better than Leehar's. Let's see who has voted so far:

alt the submariner (and it wasn't colored or bold, so it doesn't even count)
Neb: semi OMGUS
Iron Butterfly: still backing Neb's play
hippo:

So four three is a majority now? I guess Neb should go ahead and claim too then, since he is actually at 4.

[thehippo8]

I would be comfortable voting Leehar as well. Vote Leehar

(Pretty bad when you cant trust your doubles tourny partner *grin*)

Voting Leehar for being apathetic in his vote and this is how you do it? Hypocrite?

I am in agreement that Leehar has done his chips. Time for a claim or you're gone. I'd like to get back to Iron Butterfly tomorrow, but I have to agree with the majority today. unvote vote Leehar

Majority? What majority? And this post isn't much better than Leehar's. Let's see who has voted so far:

alt the submariner (and it wasn't colored or bold, so it doesn't even count)
Neb: semi OMGUS
Iron Butterfly: still backing Neb's play
hippo:

So four three is a majority now? I guess Neb should go ahead and claim too then, since he is actually at 4.

Lol, you're not seriously still voting for neb are you?

[Leehar]

Meh, it's surprising how far Honesty gets you. Yes I'm apathetic, have said myself that I probably did skim, and even admitted to bandwagoning cause it's too much effort to think too deeply on anything too much when the enthusiasm for mafia has waned somewhat. Sue me! This is the only game I have in play, and I'm still relatively new, so I rarely come up with more then the inactivity angle which at least sometimes works to trim the fat.

And if you just want to pressure me into a claim, that's cool too. I doubt you'll like who I am since I'm not really fond of myself either, but at least the Flavour Spec fits and we won't get wifom like what happened with Clever yesterday.

[chapcrap]

I would be comfortable voting Leehar as well. Vote Leehar

(Pretty bad when you cant trust your doubles tourny partner *grin*)

Voting Leehar for being apathetic in his vote and this is how you do it? Hypocrite?

I am in agreement that Leehar has done his chips. Time for a claim or you're gone. I'd like to get back to Iron Butterfly tomorrow, but I have to agree with the majority today. unvote vote Leehar

Majority? What majority? And this post isn't much better than Leehar's. Let's see who has voted so far:

alt the submariner (and it wasn't colored or bold, so it doesn't even count)
Neb: semi OMGUS
Iron Butterfly: still backing Neb's play
hippo:

So four three is a majority now? I guess Neb should go ahead and claim too then, since he is actually at 4.

Lol, you're not seriously still voting for neb are you?

My vote has not been on Neb today at all.

Way to not only skim, but avoid actually commenting on my post.

[safariguy5]

Meh, it's surprising how far Honesty gets you. Yes I'm apathetic, have said myself that I probably did skim, and even admitted to bandwagoning cause it's too much effort to think too deeply on anything too much when the enthusiasm for mafia has waned somewhat. Sue me! This is the only game I have in play, and I'm still relatively new, so I rarely come up with more then the inactivity angle which at least sometimes works to trim the fat.

And if you just want to pressure me into a claim, that's cool too. I doubt you'll like who I am since I'm not really fond of myself either, but at least the Flavour Spec fits and we won't get wifom like what happened with Clever yesterday.

What happened with clever yesterday was that his roleflavor did not match up with his claim, and he specifically denied being a commuter at least once. Assuming your flavor fits with your claim and you know what you are, I don't foresee that problem.

[alt1978]

Well...first of my apologies for the lack of bold.
Second...I have been following along but a lot of the arguments but I have some residual guilt about yesterday's lynch. I was on that case early and was wrong...so I have tried to be a little more careful.
I was very interested in the safari case...but that didn't seem to pick up traction. Others gave what seemed to me to be a plausible explanation for what happened night one...i hope they are right. I dug back through and tried to find something original or substantive against safari to make the case go...i found nothing. Very well could be that I suck...but if it's there i missed it.

Leehar was my prime suspect from day one...

Here's the pressure on day on jonty that seems suspicious...he is leading the charge hard where everything else day 1 and day 2 has been fluff and stuff...flavor talk...I'm skimming...etc.

Postby Leehar on Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:11 pm
Wow, bigger hole being dug on you Jonty?

Re: Harry potter: The fight for freedom. Day 1.

Postby Leehar on Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:49 pm
L-4 Jonty?

Re: Harry potter: The fight for freedom. Day 1.

Postby Leehar on Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:46 pm
it's l-2 Jonty, speak now, or forever hold your peace.
Unless you're gonna go on another crusade about how you've been wronged by joke-votes?

The next part that seems a bit fishy is the waffling and making a weak case against hippo at the end.

Postby Leehar on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:10 pm
Vote hippo
For good or ill, I sincerely believe Spartacus is town, so I have to go with hippo as the worst of the others.

Re: Harry potter: The fight for freedom. Day 1.

Postby Leehar on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:44 pm
Ah well, thats that. I'd still like to say for the record that I really don't think sparticus is town, come what may, and hippo was the next best case to go for, tho I read IB's comment that he's acted like this before and still flipped town so it's just his own style in a sense.

A lot of what leehar is putting out there seems to me to be like text flying under the radar...however I would like to get some more experienced eyes looking at what I'm seeing...it looks like enough to me to vote...but maybe there is an explanation for it or i'm simply seeing something that isn't there. Maybe the best way to sum it up is that the vibe of leehar's purpose seems to ebb and flow through the game...and when it's ebbing the history doesn't seem to show it ebbing in the town's direction.

again...this is what I'm going off of...better eyes please help.

Vote Leehar

[strike wolf]

Good catch on Leehar's contradiction Alt. I've bolded it in the following to hopefully make it clear to everyone.

Vote hippo
For good or ill, I sincerely believe Spartacus is town, so I have to go with hippo as the worst of the others.

Ah well, thats that. I'd still like to say for the record that I really don't think sparticus is town, come what may, and hippo was the next best case to go for, tho I read IB's comment that he's acted like this before and still flipped town so it's just his own style in a sense.

Interesting comment by the experienced guys on not splitting our votes here, which does make sense, but does that still not end up in a case of choosing the lesser of the 22 evils when they both aren't good options?

I suppose Tail's hammering and Chaps getting to l-1 could be a concern, but considering the deadline pressure, guess it makes sense

Combined with the rest of the case on Leehar this is good enough for me.

vote leehar

[Leehar]

Would you believe me if I said it was a typo and meant 'do think'?...
It would be pretty nonsensical if after not voting for him and him getting lynched I'd stick my head out just to contradict what I previously said when I think the gist of the post was still a vehement support behind Sparticus before the scene came out to either confirm or reject his town affiliations.

[safariguy5]

Wow, that's about as black and white as you can get. I'd vote Leehar, but I'm not sure how many votes he has. Pretty sure I'm not voting anyone, but I'll unvote for now and will add pressure pending a vote count.

[freezie]

Vote Count:

Safari(1): Chapcrap

Nebuchadnezer(4): Everywhere, Spiers, Dazza, Leehar

(L-4)Leehar(5): Nebuchadnezer, Iron butterfly, Thehippo8, Alt, Strike Wolf


with 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

[everywhere116]

I hate to abandon my own case, and I will revisit it in the future, but a contradiction is a contradiction.

Unvote vote Leehar

[strike wolf]

I don't know. I know I was the one to bring the contradiction itself up specifically but I can kind of believe his reasoning as for why there is a contradiction. Either way I'm hesitant to move my vote because there is still some other good points in the case on Leehar and I took so long to decide on a target in the first place.

[safariguy5]

unvote vote Leehar L-2, time for a claim.

[spiesr]

Wow, that's about as black and white as you can get. I'd vote Leehar, but I'm not sure how many votes he has. Pretty sure I'm not voting anyone, but I'll unvote for now and will add pressure pending a vote count.

Well, the contradiction is obvious enough yes, but right now I am not completely certain if I can justify the connection between him contradicting himself and him being scum. With the current arrangement of votes I need to wait and see what he claims before I can take action on the case anyway...

[Djfireside]

I tend to agree with the claim on leehar, I dont want to put him them to L-1 but I will if they falter as their statement about their role still has me a bit unteethered. Safari Is still not making me feel good though as I first stated when he pulled bodyguard.

[Bleed_Green]

Sorry for the inactivity... I had a family emergency this weekend that took me out of town and away from any lines of communication... that being said I am obviously a few pages back so once I catch up and review all the cases I will post my findings...