Power Role Draft Mafia - Town Wins!

[pmchugh]

Ah, I like your idea pmc. I didn't think of it that way. So are you saying mafia would have chosen 1 role from each of those groups?

I think it is unlikely to be honest, I just think it is a more useful way of considering what roles they picked.

SG7 - wow actually nice post about the duplicate numbers. Obviously that has WIFOM written all over it, but it would NOT be productive for the mafia to pick duplicate numbers. I didnt realize that allowing them to talk before hand, allowed them to coodinate their numbers.

I will post later on why I think L-3 is a big deal. It wasn't JUST about the L-3, it was how he did it and how he reacted after..... It was the whole picture, not JUST l-3

I am waiting on a follow up this post, although I still don't get why L-3 is significant. I can understand why the vote and his reaction are scummy (though I still think you should explain), but what is the need to mention L-3?

[Djfireside]

And your case was:

Vote SG7 For no particular reason.

Pretty solid case then

This just passed by but really? Thats your case and now you are taking a backseat and letting your case run? ummmm Greatest stance ever?

Who is this directed at?

Sorry Dazza, I mean to only get soundmans but that was directed at soundman.

In fact it is still bothering me of how that all went down. Dropped in, had no point of what they were doing and backed it up with nothing.

UNVOTE Vote Soundman

[soundman]

Sorry Dazza, I mean to only get soundmans but that was directed at soundman.

In fact it is still bothering me of how that all went down. Dropped in, had no point of what they were doing and backed it up with nothing.

UNVOTE Vote Soundman

(Had to delete the other quotes because it won't let me have more than 5)

You guys are a bunch of skimmers.

Is there anyone else that strikes you as scummy?
SG7. His post against Nag's on the wagon being too random made my scum meter jump. Nag had made a logical post and SG7 jumped on one sentence of it without seeming to read the rest.

Weak case but I DID have one and it is Day 1.

[nagerous]

We can discuss who'd pick what role for hours on end, and how we each would individually rank the various roles but in my opinion over discussing this just feeds more information to the mafia. They know, who in the town has the highest roles, they will therefore be picking off those people one by one. The town could be missing any of the crucial roles, such as the doctor, who if the town do not have the cop is fucked as soon as he calls one mafia member out. Whilst I do approve of the premise of the mass claim I still think it is a far too risky strategy as it is not going to shed any real light on who is mafia and who is not unless we happen to be lucky and find ourselves in a counter-claim situation. Still it does generate discussion and activity and in my eyes, the more discussion, the more activity, the more leads that are generated. I have had a re-read of the thread and one individual strikes me as most scummy and that is señor MoB Deadly:

First post I noticed of his was this one:

Im here, nothing really to add other than that freezie wagon got started way too fast and out of nowhere.

A very non-committal response to the Freezie wagon, which I had questioned after Freezie had suddenly gone L-3. This was a relaxed post, checking in so to speak but not posting anything of substance. However, later after a few people had given Somethingclever7 a grilling over his voting freezie resulting in him backing down, MoB suddenly dives into action:

Extreme FOS clever for putting Freezie at L-3 without a prod being sent out, or giving time for him to respond. Only reason I do not have my vote on you right now is because I believe you do this kind of frequently. Maybe you did not realize its bad play when you did it. If no other good cases come out of today, my vote will be on you.

Everywhere vs pmc. Right now I do agree with everywhere, PMC's aggression is not sitting well with me, especially when he is advocating for top roles to claim. I am going to hold off my vote right now, because PMC is in the middle of the debate with everywhere right now, and he has made some good points, I would like to see how the argument progresses.

Why did you not express this earlier, did you just skim it or had you no interest in calling him up on it. By your own admission he does this frequently so do you really think he is scummy enough to vote or are you just picking on an easy target? The second part of your post does not bode well with me either, as what you are engaging in in my view is fence sitting. Perhaps I am guilty of the same thing, I can see the merits of the mass claim and I can sympathise with some of pmc's arguments even if it is not a decision I would ultimately advocate. However, it is just another observation on your character and it is mainly the sudden swing in personality and aggression towards SomethingClever7 that earns you my first real vote unvote vote MoB deadly

[nagerous]

* I'd like to note that pmchugh's proposal was for partial mass claims, I have divulged into the theory of a mass claim in general.
Whilst, in some ways this would be beneficial it has also the potential to be game ruining taking some of the drive and fun out of the game.

[pmchugh]

Wow nag posted something useful, what is this 2007?

I think you made some good points but I would like to hear from mob on that and also what he had to say that he never got the time to. Once he does that I will decide whether he is worth pursuing further, for now a mild fos.

Whilst I do approve of the premise of the mass claim I still think it is a far too risky strategy as it is not going to shed any real light on who is mafia and who is not unless we happen to be lucky and find ourselves in a counter-claim situation

* I'd like to note that pmchugh's proposal was for partial mass claims, I have divulged into the theory of a mass claim in general.
Whilst, in some ways this would be beneficial it has also the potential to be game ruining taking some of the drive and fun out of the game.

I no longer care for a mass claim but I find the fact that you and edoc both said this rather odd. On one hand you say you don't want a mass claim because it would not be useful and on the other hand you say you don't want it because it would be too useful. Make your mind up.

[nagerous]

I don't know if that was your intention but that was a fantastic twist on my words. What I was saying that whilst there are some benefits to a mass claim I feel personally that is too dangerous a strategy and the risks of exposing all the roles to the mafia, particularly if they chose well in their selections far outweigh those benefits.

[pmchugh]

I don't know if that was your intention but that was a fantastic twist on my words. What I was saying that whilst there are some benefits to a mass claim I feel personally that is too dangerous a strategy and the risks of exposing all the roles to the mafia, particularly if they chose well in their selections far outweigh those benefits.

This direct quote of an entire post says differently.

* I'd like to note that pmchugh's proposal was for partial mass claims, I have divulged into the theory of a mass claim in general.
Whilst, in some ways this would be beneficial it has also the potential to be game ruining taking some of the drive and fun out of the game.

I didn't twist your words, this quote contradicts what you just repeated. Taking the fun out of the game surely means that it would make the win too easy for town? If not I don't understand your post at all.

[nagerous]

I don't know if that was your intention but that was a fantastic twist on my words. What I was saying that whilst there are some benefits to a mass claim I feel personally that is too dangerous a strategy and the risks of exposing all the roles to the mafia, particularly if they chose well in their selections far outweigh those benefits.

This direct quote of an entire post says differently.

* I'd like to note that pmchugh's proposal was for partial mass claims, I have divulged into the theory of a mass claim in general.
Whilst, in some ways this would be beneficial it has also the potential to be game ruining taking some of the drive and fun out of the game.

I didn't twist your words, this quote contradicts what you just repeated. Taking the fun out of the game surely means that it would make the win too easy for town? If not I don't understand your post at all.

That post was not the crux of my argument but an addendum and it was discussing mass claims in general, as I've seen a few games ruined by it on day one especially the sort where there is a strong backing theme with obvious pro-town roles. I do not believe this would happen here as you know a mafia or a townie could be a cop, a mafia or a townie could be the doctor or the JOAT, it is too hard to call and I highly doubt would create a game ruining situation. I can understand how you may have got that impression but my main points were emphasised in my large post.

[Ragian]

As far as I can see, MoB haven't chimed in to elaborate on the L-3 thingie yet. I'm psyched to hear about it. Don't leave me hanging, MoB

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Lol ya he is plenty active and I would like to see it to...u know...since its concerning me

[MoB Deadly]

Sorry for the delay, I am not ignoring the multiple posts directed at me. I will try to post tonight or tomorrow.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Understood I can wait lol

[pmchugh]

i dontt come here for a day and i miss nothing? scum are lurking well eh edoc?

[shieldgenerator7]

we're lurking waiting for a response from MoB, who said he will post tomorrow

[ghostly447]

I am guilty of inactivity. Sorry, I have been doing what I can but I was studying for my second 4 hour test of this week which I had to wake up early for this morning. Yesterday I was gone all day either in school, or working on my project (if you need to know more about the project I will be happy to explain, though I do not feel it is necessary to come out and explain it until asked).

I will do what I can to get more active, but today may show inactivity soon as well because I may be going and working on the project for another 7-8 hours. I will do what I can when I get home tonight IF that proves to be the case.

[MoB Deadly]

Ah, I like your idea pmc. I didn't think of it that way. So are you saying mafia would have chosen 1 role from each of those groups?

I think it is unlikely to be honest, I just think it is a more useful way of considering what roles they picked.

SG7 - wow actually nice post about the duplicate numbers. Obviously that has WIFOM written all over it, but it would NOT be productive for the mafia to pick duplicate numbers. I didnt realize that allowing them to talk before hand, allowed them to coodinate their numbers.

I will post later on why I think L-3 is a big deal. It wasn't JUST about the L-3, it was how he did it and how he reacted after..... It was the whole picture, not JUST l-3

I am waiting on a follow up this post, although I still don't get why L-3 is significant. I can understand why the vote and his reaction are scummy (though I still think you should explain), but what is the need to mention L-3?

Okay, I will start by, saying no matter what, the Freezie wagon was scummy. No matter how you flip it or phrase it, Freezie should NOT of had that many votes that quickly after calling out his inactivity. Out of all the wagoners, I thought Clever looked the scummiest. Here's his post:

Wake up freezie!!!Vote Freezie

Again this is on page 8 and there are 3 consecutive votes for freezie behind him on the very same page.

SG7 explains his vote:

Also, what is with the freezie wagon? It seems a little bit early to start pushing against inactives, I personally haven't been able to post over the last couple of days because I have been at work, down the pub/club and asleep. Everyone is pretty busy during the week so I am sure freezie will have a chance to catch up soon.

it's random D1 pressure exercise to test freezie's claim, e.g., a place to start

PMC explains his vote:

I am not pushing for a claim, for the record. I just want a detailed post on what has been going on to make up for lack of activity.

Clever ignores the other players explaining his vote and does not post any other information regarding it. Then the real kicker:

Ok I'll get off sorryunvote

He UNVOTES, before freezie even checks in. Now why would he do that? I thought his vote was on Freezie for him to check in the first place? That makes no sense to take it off.

So it wasnt JUST the L-3 that made me think clever was scummy, it was the whole thing from start to finish. I particularly thought L-3 is scummy, because L-2 is claim zone, and I didn't think Freeze should have necessarily had to claim right away, if he had a reasonable explanation why he hasn't posted and posted something that was contributing.

Someone could still get lynched at L-3 in normal games. A hated townie combined with a double voter could have freezie dead before he claims. Now, in this setup there is no hated townies so that point isn't valid. But putting someone at L-3 trips my normal scumdar anyday.

I have had a re-read of the thread and one individual strikes me as most scummy and that is señor MoB Deadly:

First post I noticed of his was this one:

Im here, nothing really to add other than that freezie wagon got started way too fast and out of nowhere.

A very non-committal response to the Freezie wagon, which I had questioned after Freezie had suddenly gone L-3. This was a relaxed post, checking in so to speak but not posting anything of substance. However, later after a few people had given Somethingclever7 a grilling over his voting freezie resulting in him backing down, MoB suddenly dives into action:

Extreme FOS clever for putting Freezie at L-3 without a prod being sent out, or giving time for him to respond. Only reason I do not have my vote on you right now is because I believe you do this kind of frequently. Maybe you did not realize its bad play when you did it. If no other good cases come out of today, my vote will be on you.

Everywhere vs pmc. Right now I do agree with everywhere, PMC's aggression is not sitting well with me, especially when he is advocating for top roles to claim. I am going to hold off my vote right now, because PMC is in the middle of the debate with everywhere right now, and he has made some good points, I would like to see how the argument progresses.

Why did you not express this earlier, did you just skim it or had you no interest in calling him up on it. By your own admission he does this frequently so do you really think he is scummy enough to vote or are you just picking on an easy target? The second part of your post does not bode well with me either, as what you are engaging in in my view is fence sitting. Perhaps I am guilty of the same thing, I can see the merits of the mass claim and I can sympathise with some of pmc's arguments even if it is not a decision I would ultimately advocate. However, it is just another observation on your character and it is mainly the sudden swing in personality and aggression towards SomethingClever7 that earns you my first real vote unvote vote MoB deadly

This is a very valid question. The reason why it didn't initially trip my scumdar is because I didn't see the vote count. When I caught up, I noticed there were a couple votes in a row, but I didn't know how many and did not know Freezie was at L-3. When I had time to post again:

catching up from page 10

I saw the vote count, and saw that he was at L-3 and that made me review the wagon again to see how that came about. And that is why my L-3 was amplified so much in my post, because thats what made me notice and go back through the thread.

About fence-sitting and PMC - This is on page 13 and I was catching up from page 10, so as you can see I don't have tons of time to post, so when I do got a moment, I need to make sure I make my post asap. AS you can see on that page, I posted that I was catching up and then I made my big post, PMC posted right in the middle with his argument. I wasn't going to take a position when I was fastposted by his argument, and they were still going back and forth.

PMC is on my FOS list because he was on the freezie wagon, AND he was advocating for the mass claim. he "said" he didnt want freezie to claim but just to post, who knows if that was his real intention. He also conceded his argument for mass claiming and knows its not a great idea. again, who knows, maybe he is mafia playing games. This is my first game with PMC so I don't know if its his aggressiveness he claimed or not, so I didn't voice my concerns about him out loud, but I do have my eyes on him.



fastposted by ghostly

[MoB Deadly]

Someone could still get lynched at L-3 in normal games. A hated townie combined with a double voter could have freezie dead before he claims. Now, in this setup there is no hated townies so that point isn't valid. But putting someone at L-3 trips my normal scumdar anyday.

This is false information... Double vote + hated would only get someone lynched at L-2. Still doesn't change my opinion, I think L-3 is dangerous, especially when you just want someone to check in and not forcing them to claim.

[MoB Deadly]

sorry triple post....

I forgot to add that, although what I thought Clever did was scummy, I didn't even vote the dude.. I thought it was noteworthy, but I think it's something expected from him... Him trying to say that it wasn't scummy and defending his actions and calling ME the skimmer, is what made me put my vote on him.

[ghostly447]

Ah, I like your idea pmc. I didn't think of it that way. So are you saying mafia would have chosen 1 role from each of those groups?

I think it is unlikely to be honest, I just think it is a more useful way of considering what roles they picked.

SG7 - wow actually nice post about the duplicate numbers. Obviously that has WIFOM written all over it, but it would NOT be productive for the mafia to pick duplicate numbers. I didnt realize that allowing them to talk before hand, allowed them to coodinate their numbers.

I will post later on why I think L-3 is a big deal. It wasn't JUST about the L-3, it was how he did it and how he reacted after..... It was the whole picture, not JUST l-3

I am waiting on a follow up this post, although I still don't get why L-3 is significant. I can understand why the vote and his reaction are scummy (though I still think you should explain), but what is the need to mention L-3?

Okay, I will start by, saying no matter what, the Freezie wagon was scummy. No matter how you flip it or phrase it, Freezie should NOT of had that many votes that quickly after calling out his inactivity. Out of all the wagoners, I thought Clever looked the scummiest. Here's his post:

Wake up freezie!!!Vote Freezie

Again this is on page 8 and there are 3 consecutive votes for freezie behind him on the very same page.

SG7 explains his vote:

Also, what is with the freezie wagon? It seems a little bit early to start pushing against inactives, I personally haven't been able to post over the last couple of days because I have been at work, down the pub/club and asleep. Everyone is pretty busy during the week so I am sure freezie will have a chance to catch up soon.

it's random D1 pressure exercise to test freezie's claim, e.g., a place to start

PMC explains his vote:

I am not pushing for a claim, for the record. I just want a detailed post on what has been going on to make up for lack of activity.

Clever ignores the other players explaining his vote and does not post any other information regarding it. Then the real kicker:

Ok I'll get off sorryunvote

He UNVOTES, before freezie even checks in. Now why would he do that? I thought his vote was on Freezie for him to check in the first place? That makes no sense to take it off.

So it wasnt JUST the L-3 that made me think clever was scummy, it was the whole thing from start to finish. I particularly thought L-3 is scummy, because L-2 is claim zone, and I didn't think Freeze should have necessarily had to claim right away, if he had a reasonable explanation why he hasn't posted and posted something that was contributing.

Someone could still get lynched at L-3 in normal games. A hated townie combined with a double voter could have freezie dead before he claims. Now, in this setup there is no hated townies so that point isn't valid. But putting someone at L-3 trips my normal scumdar anyday.

I have had a re-read of the thread and one individual strikes me as most scummy and that is señor MoB Deadly:

First post I noticed of his was this one:

Im here, nothing really to add other than that freezie wagon got started way too fast and out of nowhere.

A very non-committal response to the Freezie wagon, which I had questioned after Freezie had suddenly gone L-3. This was a relaxed post, checking in so to speak but not posting anything of substance. However, later after a few people had given Somethingclever7 a grilling over his voting freezie resulting in him backing down, MoB suddenly dives into action:

Extreme FOS clever for putting Freezie at L-3 without a prod being sent out, or giving time for him to respond. Only reason I do not have my vote on you right now is because I believe you do this kind of frequently. Maybe you did not realize its bad play when you did it. If no other good cases come out of today, my vote will be on you.

Everywhere vs pmc. Right now I do agree with everywhere, PMC's aggression is not sitting well with me, especially when he is advocating for top roles to claim. I am going to hold off my vote right now, because PMC is in the middle of the debate with everywhere right now, and he has made some good points, I would like to see how the argument progresses.

Why did you not express this earlier, did you just skim it or had you no interest in calling him up on it. By your own admission he does this frequently so do you really think he is scummy enough to vote or are you just picking on an easy target? The second part of your post does not bode well with me either, as what you are engaging in in my view is fence sitting. Perhaps I am guilty of the same thing, I can see the merits of the mass claim and I can sympathise with some of pmc's arguments even if it is not a decision I would ultimately advocate. However, it is just another observation on your character and it is mainly the sudden swing in personality and aggression towards SomethingClever7 that earns you my first real vote unvote vote MoB deadly

This is a very valid question. The reason why it didn't initially trip my scumdar is because I didn't see the vote count. When I caught up, I noticed there were a couple votes in a row, but I didn't know how many and did not know Freezie was at L-3. When I had time to post again:

catching up from page 10

I saw the vote count, and saw that he was at L-3 and that made me review the wagon again to see how that came about. And that is why my L-3 was amplified so much in my post, because thats what made me notice and go back through the thread.

About fence-sitting and PMC - This is on page 13 and I was catching up from page 10, so as you can see I don't have tons of time to post, so when I do got a moment, I need to make sure I make my post asap. AS you can see on that page, I posted that I was catching up and then I made my big post, PMC posted right in the middle with his argument. I wasn't going to take a position when I was fastposted by his argument, and they were still going back and forth.

PMC is on my FOS list because he was on the freezie wagon, AND he was advocating for the mass claim. he "said" he didnt want freezie to claim but just to post, who knows if that was his real intention. He also conceded his argument for mass claiming and knows its not a great idea. again, who knows, maybe he is mafia playing games. This is my first game with PMC so I don't know if its his aggressiveness he claimed or not, so I didn't voice my concerns about him out loud, but I do have my eyes on him.



fastposted by ghostly

I will actually come to Clevers somewhat a rescue here. L-3 is not normally something I feel is scummy, and nor is the fact that he jumped off and your reasoning for it. If he were mafia, he would have stayed put and hoped for someone else to be the target of suspicion, or at least held on long enough to drop off undetected (IE Freezie claiming a good town role and him not wanting to lynch that role).

So therefore, I think that the case you brought against him has ill logic and could easily just be worded correctly to make him sound like scum. Though he is not very new (been in several games already) I do not think he has learned very fast as to how to cover his tracks when he is scum (I got him lynched in 2 games this past few days by him getting mixed up in what he said, etc.).

So therefore, you can continue to pressure him with this, but I probably will not be behind your case, rather defending him until he slips up like he tends to do when he is mafia.


As for the PMC case you brought up, I do not think it is particularly scummy that he brought up a mass claim (except for I cant really see any use in it) but probably at least one person on the freezie wagon was scum. It would surprise me if there wasnt at least one on the wagon. But until he slips up more, maybe under applied pressure, I do not feel comfortable taking sides on this case.

[freezie]

Half Mob's case, and the reason my vote remains on Clever, is that he backtracked from the wagon on myself very, very quickly. I wasn't even back at that point.

I still think it was a way too easy bandwaggon to jump on, but removing yourself from it before someone has the chance to call you on it ( I.E myself ) is scummy in my eyes.

[MoB Deadly]

Right thats what I am saying ghostly, I am not saying lets all pressure clever into a claim right now. I didnt even have my vote on him right away. It was just something that I caught that I want to keep an eye on. IF we dont have a better case I am content on pushing forward with that case as a last resort.. but I think we have time to find a better case I think.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Mob u say that one reason my vote was scummy was cause I put no reason behind my vote...well look at the two before me "inactive hunting" and "lets see that smile of yours" ..are those good reasons that your looking for?

And once again I took my vote off of him because he was at l-3 but because like you said its a little excessive just to have someone move around and be active again ...by unvoting I never said I didn't want to see him be active I was just merely taking pressure off him cause we already had enough

And freezie, ..backed off before nobody called me on it? Why dont you read a few of the post before I backed off ...i was definitely called on it..i think you just found a good way to get attention off of yourself and ran with it even when it didn't make sense

[shieldgenerator7]

I don't think Clever's scummy, it seems to me he's just a n00b, still trying to get out of thse n00b shoes.

[ghostly447]

Mob u say that one reason my vote was scummy was cause I put no reason behind my vote...well look at the two before me "inactive hunting" and "lets see that smile of yours" ..are those good reasons that your looking for?

And once again I took my vote off of him because he was at l-3 but because like you said its a little excessive just to have someone move around and be active again ...by unvoting I never said I didn't want to see him be active I was just merely taking pressure off him cause we already had enough

And freezie, ..backed off before nobody called me on it? Why dont you read a few of the post before I backed off ...i was definitely called on it..i think you just found a good way to get attention off of yourself and ran with it even when it didn't make sense

Well said. Kind of eager to hear response from MoB and Freezie on that one.