H.E. Mafia, Game Over, Town Prevails. [archive plox]

[ghostly447]

Here are some of my current thoughts on Jak. He has given us some sort of explanation as to what he was thinking when he claimed suddenly. Now, clearly this wasn't a good decision and his reasons for doing so don't align well with standard mafia logic, but he at least has offered us his explanation. I personally don't have enough experience with him to divine if he should have know better or not, perhaps those more familiar with him can lend their observations on the matter. As such, at this point I find actions suspect, but not damning. I don't yet have a string evaluation on the legitimacy of his claim. This game supposedly may or may not have vanilla townies. I think I would feel more confident, Jak, if you could let us know some of the flavor of your role. (Without doing anything that would stray into quoting of course.) I mean, what sort of nature is your character portrayed as having according to your role pm?
Regardless, at this point in time Jak ranks well below SomethingClever and Ghostly on my hierarchy of who to lynch today.

You need to watch someone with a night role (perhaps CLEVER) and then the next day, you can say where he went. If he confirms you, then you are mostly confirmed. Of course, that means you have to rely on the person you watch to go somewhere and then confirm it and then have everyone else believe that you are both telling the truth. As of now, I know no one that would participate with you except CLEVER.

That is not how a watcher works. Rather you have described the powers of a tracker.
Also, Ghostly's concern is that the mafia will roleblock him should he be alive tonight, thus preventing him from obtaining any results that could back up his claim. While this is certainly an item of some concern, the way he goes about mentioning it reeks of complaining about "how the mafia are out to get him specifically" and overrating is own importance...

My exact concern, actually, is something you have to think as mafia for. If I were mafia, I would roleblock my character because:

I have already been roleblocked, and I require results to prove my innocence.
Another role block, provided it is not brought up (by it, I refer to the concept that they may block me again) will almost surely lead to doubt amongst the town that I am who I claim to be, almost surely leading to a lynch of another power role giving the mafia another leg up.

And no. I am not mafia because I tend to think like one. I am somewhat doing a "What would Jesus do", except in my case its "What would scum do?".

[ghostly447]

Thats it strike. But I am going to bring something up.

I'm honestly just waiting to see who ya'll lynch, my votes staying because what I voted back for, I don't believe Clever's claim. But on the other side, I really don't have a spot to defend myself, I thought claiming might be helpful but it wasn't I guess..

What would cause it to be helpful?

Think back to when you claimed and let us know what possibilities you considered when you claimed.

If he is a noob then what would go through your mind after there had already been 2 claims? "Clever claimed and is completely cleared and ghostly claimed and he hasn't racked up all that many votes (at the time I hadn't). Maybe if I claim then we can get this show on the road and catch some scum!". I believe it to be a noob mistake if in fact he is a noob. I do not know if he is though.

It can't be a n00b mistake.

What do you mean it CANT be a noob mistake? If he is new, it can ALWAYS be a noob mistake. Strike even said he sometimes messes up, and if no one noticed (lol) I do too. Its kind of funny that this whole time you have been backing a case against me with facts and everything (I AM NOT BRINGING THIS AS A CASE. JUST AN OBSERVATION. DO NOT RESPOND SAYING THAT I AM STILL TUNNEL VISIONED) and then here, your only line is "It cant be a noob mistake". Just saying, where are your facts to support this case? (Still not bringing up a case. Just asking a simple question on if you have evidence to this argument).

[safariguy5]

Here are some of my current thoughts on Jak. He has given us some sort of explanation as to what he was thinking when he claimed suddenly. Now, clearly this wasn't a good decision and his reasons for doing so don't align well with standard mafia logic, but he at least has offered us his explanation. I personally don't have enough experience with him to divine if he should have know better or not, perhaps those more familiar with him can lend their observations on the matter. As such, at this point I find actions suspect, but not damning. I don't yet have a string evaluation on the legitimacy of his claim. This game supposedly may or may not have vanilla townies. I think I would feel more confident, Jak, if you could let us know some of the flavor of your role. (Without doing anything that would stray into quoting of course.) I mean, what sort of nature is your character portrayed as having according to your role pm?
Regardless, at this point in time Jak ranks well below SomethingClever and Ghostly on my hierarchy of who to lynch today.

You need to watch someone with a night role (perhaps CLEVER) and then the next day, you can say where he went. If he confirms you, then you are mostly confirmed. Of course, that means you have to rely on the person you watch to go somewhere and then confirm it and then have everyone else believe that you are both telling the truth. As of now, I know no one that would participate with you except CLEVER.

That is not how a watcher works. Rather you have described the powers of a tracker.
Also, Ghostly's concern is that the mafia will roleblock him should he be alive tonight, thus preventing him from obtaining any results that could back up his claim. While this is certainly an item of some concern, the way he goes about mentioning it reeks of complaining about "how the mafia are out to get him specifically" and overrating is own importance...

My exact concern, actually, is something you have to think as mafia for. If I were mafia, I would roleblock my character because:

I have already been roleblocked, and I require results to prove my innocence.
Another role block, provided it is not brought up (by it, I refer to the concept that they may block me again) will almost surely lead to doubt amongst the town that I am who I claim to be, almost surely leading to a lynch of another power role giving the mafia another leg up.

And no. I am not mafia because I tend to think like one. I am somewhat doing a "What would Jesus do", except in my case its "What would scum do?".

Oh please. With 15 people, there's a good probability that you'd watch someone who doesn't get visited. That wouldn't confirm your claim either, and mafia wouldn't have roleblocked you.

Honestly ghostly, you're role is useful, but not as important as the doctor is, and your method of scumhunting is too broad to really get anything useful. You've got 5 people on your scummy list and you just FOSed a sixth. Seriously, pick someone and stick with it. You think clever is scummy? Fine. But all of these other cases really add nothing to finding a lynch candidate and you look really paranoid for trying to advance all of them at once.

[ghostly447]

Here are some of my current thoughts on Jak. He has given us some sort of explanation as to what he was thinking when he claimed suddenly. Now, clearly this wasn't a good decision and his reasons for doing so don't align well with standard mafia logic, but he at least has offered us his explanation. I personally don't have enough experience with him to divine if he should have know better or not, perhaps those more familiar with him can lend their observations on the matter. As such, at this point I find actions suspect, but not damning. I don't yet have a string evaluation on the legitimacy of his claim. This game supposedly may or may not have vanilla townies. I think I would feel more confident, Jak, if you could let us know some of the flavor of your role. (Without doing anything that would stray into quoting of course.) I mean, what sort of nature is your character portrayed as having according to your role pm?
Regardless, at this point in time Jak ranks well below SomethingClever and Ghostly on my hierarchy of who to lynch today.

You need to watch someone with a night role (perhaps CLEVER) and then the next day, you can say where he went. If he confirms you, then you are mostly confirmed. Of course, that means you have to rely on the person you watch to go somewhere and then confirm it and then have everyone else believe that you are both telling the truth. As of now, I know no one that would participate with you except CLEVER.

That is not how a watcher works. Rather you have described the powers of a tracker.
Also, Ghostly's concern is that the mafia will roleblock him should he be alive tonight, thus preventing him from obtaining any results that could back up his claim. While this is certainly an item of some concern, the way he goes about mentioning it reeks of complaining about "how the mafia are out to get him specifically" and overrating is own importance...

My exact concern, actually, is something you have to think as mafia for. If I were mafia, I would roleblock my character because:

I have already been roleblocked, and I require results to prove my innocence.
Another role block, provided it is not brought up (by it, I refer to the concept that they may block me again) will almost surely lead to doubt amongst the town that I am who I claim to be, almost surely leading to a lynch of another power role giving the mafia another leg up.

And no. I am not mafia because I tend to think like one. I am somewhat doing a "What would Jesus do", except in my case its "What would scum do?".

Oh please. With 15 people, there's a good probability that you'd watch someone who doesn't get visited. That wouldn't confirm your claim either, and mafia wouldn't have roleblocked you.

Honestly ghostly, you're role is useful, but not as important as the doctor is, and your method of scumhunting is too broad to really get anything useful. You've got 5 people on your scummy list and you just FOSed a sixth. Seriously, pick someone and stick with it. You think clever is scummy? Fine. But all of these other cases really add nothing to finding a lynch candidate and you look really paranoid for trying to advance all of them at once.

And this is the slip I have been waiting for. Seriously? You have been telling me to quit being so tunnel visioned this whole damn time, and now you tell me to stick with one?

Unvote vote Safari and that is what I will stick with.

[spiesr]

It can't be a n00b mistake.

What do you mean it CANT be a noob mistake? If he is new, it can ALWAYS be a noob mistake. Strike even said he sometimes messes up, and if no one noticed (lol) I do too. Its kind of funny that this whole time you have been backing a case against me with facts and everything (I AM NOT BRINGING THIS AS A CASE. JUST AN OBSERVATION. DO NOT RESPOND SAYING THAT I AM STILL TUNNEL VISIONED) and then here, your only line is "It cant be a noob mistake". Just saying, where are your facts to support this case? (Still not bringing up a case. Just asking a simple question on if you have evidence to this argument).

From what I gather this line was reference back to this post where Doom Yoshi concluded that Jak couldn't have been new enough to not understand that early claims are scummy since Jak said something about SomethingClever claiming under no pressure being scummy.

3. Jak111-Claimed early...very early. Could just be new.

Problem here is that he himself said that clever's claim was suspicious for little pressure. Even if new, not new enough to realize that it isn't highly suspicious. This feels like a jester or a mafia taking one for the team. Else, why would he become antagonistic in addition to being crazy?

[MoB Deadly]

So what do we do with today?

Several players think that Jak should be given "the benefit of the doubt" and let go.

I am not comfortable lynching a Watcher or a Doctor without a counter claim.

I think another claim would be too many at this point, so I don't know where to go.

Order in which I prefer a lynch:
1.Jak
2
3
4
5
6
7
... The gap because I think a VT is a MUCH safer lynch than these power roles
25. Clever
26. Ghostly

Its close, and both of these players have said things I do not like. However, I think Clever is lying, or he has an altered role and does not know it.

fastposted

[ghostly447]

It can't be a n00b mistake.

What do you mean it CANT be a noob mistake? If he is new, it can ALWAYS be a noob mistake. Strike even said he sometimes messes up, and if no one noticed (lol) I do too. Its kind of funny that this whole time you have been backing a case against me with facts and everything (I AM NOT BRINGING THIS AS A CASE. JUST AN OBSERVATION. DO NOT RESPOND SAYING THAT I AM STILL TUNNEL VISIONED) and then here, your only line is "It cant be a noob mistake". Just saying, where are your facts to support this case? (Still not bringing up a case. Just asking a simple question on if you have evidence to this argument).

From what I gather this line was reference back to this post where Doom Yoshi concluded that Jak couldn't have been new enough to not understand that early claims are scummy since Jak said something about SomethingClever claiming under no pressure being scummy.

3. Jak111-Claimed early...very early. Could just be new.

Problem here is that he himself said that clever's claim was suspicious for little pressure. Even if new, not new enough to realize that it isn't highly suspicious. This feels like a jester or a mafia taking one for the team. Else, why would he become antagonistic in addition to being crazy?

My fault then. Sorry.

[safariguy5]

Here are some of my current thoughts on Jak. He has given us some sort of explanation as to what he was thinking when he claimed suddenly. Now, clearly this wasn't a good decision and his reasons for doing so don't align well with standard mafia logic, but he at least has offered us his explanation. I personally don't have enough experience with him to divine if he should have know better or not, perhaps those more familiar with him can lend their observations on the matter. As such, at this point I find actions suspect, but not damning. I don't yet have a string evaluation on the legitimacy of his claim. This game supposedly may or may not have vanilla townies. I think I would feel more confident, Jak, if you could let us know some of the flavor of your role. (Without doing anything that would stray into quoting of course.) I mean, what sort of nature is your character portrayed as having according to your role pm?
Regardless, at this point in time Jak ranks well below SomethingClever and Ghostly on my hierarchy of who to lynch today.

You need to watch someone with a night role (perhaps CLEVER) and then the next day, you can say where he went. If he confirms you, then you are mostly confirmed. Of course, that means you have to rely on the person you watch to go somewhere and then confirm it and then have everyone else believe that you are both telling the truth. As of now, I know no one that would participate with you except CLEVER.

That is not how a watcher works. Rather you have described the powers of a tracker.
Also, Ghostly's concern is that the mafia will roleblock him should he be alive tonight, thus preventing him from obtaining any results that could back up his claim. While this is certainly an item of some concern, the way he goes about mentioning it reeks of complaining about "how the mafia are out to get him specifically" and overrating is own importance...

My exact concern, actually, is something you have to think as mafia for. If I were mafia, I would roleblock my character because:

I have already been roleblocked, and I require results to prove my innocence.
Another role block, provided it is not brought up (by it, I refer to the concept that they may block me again) will almost surely lead to doubt amongst the town that I am who I claim to be, almost surely leading to a lynch of another power role giving the mafia another leg up.

And no. I am not mafia because I tend to think like one. I am somewhat doing a "What would Jesus do", except in my case its "What would scum do?".

Oh please. With 15 people, there's a good probability that you'd watch someone who doesn't get visited. That wouldn't confirm your claim either, and mafia wouldn't have roleblocked you.

Honestly ghostly, you're role is useful, but not as important as the doctor is, and your method of scumhunting is too broad to really get anything useful. You've got 5 people on your scummy list and you just FOSed a sixth. Seriously, pick someone and stick with it. You think clever is scummy? Fine. But all of these other cases really add nothing to finding a lynch candidate and you look really paranoid for trying to advance all of them at once.

And this is the slip I have been waiting for. Seriously? You have been telling me to quit being so tunnel visioned this whole damn time, and now you tell me to stick with one?

Unvote vote Safari and that is what I will stick with.

No, I said stick with clever if you want. He's dropped enough scumtells, and I can see why some people would like to vote him. Your other cases have no merit.

By the way, I've been breadcrumbing my role, so I'm surprised you didn't pick up on it. I'm probably the last person you want to be voting.

[ghostly447]

I think Ive got you. Just to check though, are you a bomb, or are you a jester, or other? I just want to make sure. I think I know exactly what it is but I want to rule these other 2 possibilities out.

[safariguy5]

I think Ive got you. Just to check though, are you a bomb, or are you a jester, or other? I just want to make sure. I think I know exactly what it is but I want to rule these other 2 possibilities out.

Not a bomb or a jester.

[safariguy5]

I think Ive got you. Just to check though, are you a bomb, or are you a jester, or other? I just want to make sure. I think I know exactly what it is but I want to rule these other 2 possibilities out.

Not a bomb or a jester.

AWOP: unvote

[ghostly447]

Okay then. Unvote vote CLEVER

[DoomYoshi]

It can't be a n00b mistake.

What do you mean it CANT be a noob mistake? If he is new, it can ALWAYS be a noob mistake. Strike even said he sometimes messes up, and if no one noticed (lol) I do too. Its kind of funny that this whole time you have been backing a case against me with facts and everything (I AM NOT BRINGING THIS AS A CASE. JUST AN OBSERVATION. DO NOT RESPOND SAYING THAT I AM STILL TUNNEL VISIONED) and then here, your only line is "It cant be a noob mistake". Just saying, where are your facts to support this case? (Still not bringing up a case. Just asking a simple question on if you have evidence to this argument).

From what I gather this line was reference back to this post where Doom Yoshi concluded that Jak couldn't have been new enough to not understand that early claims are scummy since Jak said something about SomethingClever claiming under no pressure being scummy.

3. Jak111-Claimed early...very early. Could just be new.

Problem here is that he himself said that clever's claim was suspicious for little pressure. Even if new, not new enough to realize that it isn't highly suspicious. This feels like a jester or a mafia taking one for the team. Else, why would he become antagonistic in addition to being crazy?

+1

[MoB Deadly]

Okay then. Unvote vote CLEVER

sooo I think this thread went around in a complete circle

[ghostly447]

Okay then. Unvote vote CLEVER

sooo I think this thread went around in a complete circle

I think you just went in a complete 2 page skimming rampage.

[dazza2008]

EBWOP
Stop skimming yourself Dazza, the fact you missed that ENTIRE short convo for the past page or so now, that's more skimming than I did at the start, and that's a lot...

FoS on Dazza, you were "mafia" (well, mafia was good guys in our game so you were an FBI agent/officer) in our other game, and you skimmed or intentionally pretended not to notice in that game most of the things going on.

I never skimmed in that game and I am not now. I just do not understand your reasoning at all.

This on top of your skimming makes me very suspicious of you. I think you and ghost are probably scum since you always seem to defend him and try to take the heat off him. I would be happy to lynch either of you.

You are singling him out for defending me? Isnt that what I am getting screwed over for? If you didnt notice, Spiesr defended me more than jak did. I dont even recall jak defending me besides briefly giving his opinion.

FOS Dazza now as well.

[jak111]

EBWOP
Stop skimming yourself Dazza, the fact you missed that ENTIRE short convo for the past page or so now, that's more skimming than I did at the start, and that's a lot...

FoS on Dazza, you were "mafia" (well, mafia was good guys in our game so you were an FBI agent/officer) in our other game, and you skimmed or intentionally pretended not to notice in that game most of the things going on.

I never skimmed in that game and I am not now. I just do not understand your reasoning at all.

This on top of your skimming makes me very suspicious of you. I think you and ghost are probably scum since you always seem to defend him and try to take the heat off him. I would be happy to lynch either of you.

You are singling him out for defending me? Isnt that what I am getting screwed over for? If you didnt notice, Spiesr defended me more than jak did. I dont even recall jak defending me besides briefly giving his opinion.

FOS Dazza now as well.

I think you need to explain yourself a bit more Dazza, we have, yet you keep going around the subject at hand, Unvote (if needed, which I think was still on clever) Vote Dazza

[dazza2008]

Explain what mate?

I think:

Summed up my thoughts perfectly. Ghostly has voted or FOSed everyone who has thought he is scummy.

You can argue a point against someone without voting or FOSing them surely.

[jonty125]

Order in which I prefer a lynch:
1.Jak
2
3
4
5
6
7
... The gap because I think a VT is a MUCH safer lynch than these power roles
25. Clever
26. Ghostly

Lol i agree with this. My position hasn't changed. Still see jak as #1 but am willing to hammer another case if we need one.

[strike wolf]

Thats it strike. But I am going to bring something up.

Fair enough considering the context I'm willing to strike that down as probably being a misunderstanding on each side. On Doomyoshi's side I think it was understandable that while you were accusing him that he have the full information why he was scummy and when he saw them to respond. It seems possible if not likely he misunderstood it for a continuation of your case against him. On your side I can see why when he asked you for more information you would feel compelled to provide him with such information. It was a possibly avoidable mistake on each side but by no stretch of the imagination was it a situation that can't be understood why it went down that way.

[safariguy5]

Explain what mate?

I think:

Summed up my thoughts perfectly. Ghostly has voted or FOSed everyone who has thought he is scummy.

You can argue a point against someone without voting or FOSing them surely.

I'm not seeing why ghostly FOSed dazza either. I mean, who defends who isn't that relevant right now because we haven't seen many people die so the relationships aren't as clear yet. Besides, I think the main point is that jak claimed extremely early, so I think ghostly misinterpreted dazza's reason for voting.

[ghostly447]

Explain what mate?

I think:

Summed up my thoughts perfectly. Ghostly has voted or FOSed everyone who has thought he is scummy.

You can argue a point against someone without voting or FOSing them surely.

I'm not seeing why ghostly FOSed dazza either. I mean, who defends who isn't that relevant right now because we haven't seen many people die so the relationships aren't as clear yet. Besides, I think the main point is that jak claimed extremely early, so I think ghostly misinterpreted dazza's reason for voting.

That I did. Sorry Dazza, lol. Got a lot going on right now .

[spiesr]

Okay then. Unvote vote CLEVER

sooo I think this thread went around in a complete circle

I think you just went in a complete 2 page skimming rampage.

No, I think he just see that we went and had all that discussion and afterwards you are back to (in his eyes) trying to lynch the claimed doctor. So he sees that nothing had changed?

[ghostly447]

Okay then. Unvote vote CLEVER

sooo I think this thread went around in a complete circle

I think you just went in a complete 2 page skimming rampage.

No, I think he just see that we went and had all that discussion and afterwards you are back to (in his eyes) trying to lynch the claimed doctor. So he sees that nothing had changed?

reread the past few posts by safari please. You and MoB both. When you figure out why I went back to voting CLEVER, please also decide on your opinion on it.

[MoB Deadly]

Okay then. Unvote vote CLEVER

sooo I think this thread went around in a complete circle

I think you just went in a complete 2 page skimming rampage.

No, I think he just see that we went and had all that discussion and afterwards you are back to (in his eyes) trying to lynch the claimed doctor. So he sees that nothing had changed?

reread the past few posts by safari please. You and MoB both. When you figure out why I went back to voting CLEVER, please also decide on your opinion on it.

I've read him, and I can't find it. Even if you got the green light from safari, his vote isnt on clever so thats not reassuring for me at all.