Golden Pantheon - Japanese - Endgame

[safariguy5]

Ionno strike inactive bandwagon Day 1 is pretty standard play. I mean, even IF you did bait the person onto voting the wagon, it's a pretty nonspecific test as a good number of people are going to do that. So I wouldn't say it "confirmed suspicions" at all because it's too general.

unvote vote strike wolf

[everywhere116]

I anticipate your report.

Perhaps Nath-Pal-Nahr is in order?

My avatar is the Enterprise and I had to google that. I should just take off and hang up my Captain Kirk uniform now.

Ionno strike inactive bandwagon Day 1 is pretty standard play. I mean, even IF you did bait the person onto voting the wagon, it's a pretty nonspecific test as a good number of people are going to do that. So I wouldn't say it "confirmed suspicions" at all because it's too general.

unvote vote strike wolf

You mean it's.....General 2.

YYEEEEEAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!


Serious post:

I completely disregard your implications that SW that the meta is bad is somehow scummy. It was fine. It had gotten out of hand, and there was already a bandwagon against victor solely because he's been mafia a lot in the past. I also disparaged this line of reasoning.

However, I can't really see what Strike's plan was with calling out drake. If it is what I think it was, (seeing who would hop on the lynch drake for being inactive bandwagon he was pretending to start) it was a pretty bad plan, considering that there was a ton of confirmation bias. Inactive hunting is a legitimate Day 1 strategy and a lot of people would have jumped on if drake hadn't appeared. If a lot of people did, would he have singled out the one person he had suspicions on? What if only one other person who wasn't his object of suspicion went along with it, would he have tried to get that person? If I'm mistaken on my interpretation, could you clarify, Strike?

[freezie]

Ionno strike inactive bandwagon Day 1 is pretty standard play. I mean, even IF you did bait the person onto voting the wagon, it's a pretty nonspecific test as a good number of people are going to do that. So I wouldn't say it "confirmed suspicions" at all because it's too general.

unvote vote strike wolf

Can you tell me where he 'confirmed' his suspicion? As far as I know, he's voting general for -mostly- the same reason I am voting Jonty.

On the other hand..Strike..where exactly did you had any suspcion on General as far as voting the inactive? Looking back, the only other player I can see that even though about it was Everywhere, not General. I was all up for you to bait someone, anyone, into reacting to that ( Pretty clever if you ask me--throw a bait that strike might have eyes on you, and if you're mafia, change your way of acting just to avoid suspicion...taking the bait by trying to avoid it ) but..General? He did say something about Victor, but more or less inside the joke stage still.

And only when I called you on it that you unvoted, since you posted 3 times since drake's return.

Well drake made a few posts when he came back on a debate on the setup but I was waiting to see if he'd sink under the radar again over the test of time he hasn't (curse of the commentary) so I unvoted as he was being more active

Truth, however, if I look back, it looks like you were trying to frame him based on that setup. You already had your vote on him for a Legitimate reason ( Even though I didn't agree on the timing ) so it wasn't hard to 'pursue' that case. Honestly, setup speculation isn't the base of a case, unless he did a major scum-slip by knowing inside info.

[safariguy5]

Ionno strike inactive bandwagon Day 1 is pretty standard play. I mean, even IF you did bait the person onto voting the wagon, it's a pretty nonspecific test as a good number of people are going to do that. So I wouldn't say it "confirmed suspicions" at all because it's too general.

unvote vote strike wolf

Can you tell me where he 'confirmed' his suspicion? As far as I know, he's voting general for -mostly- the same reason I am voting Jonty.

On the other hand..Strike..where exactly did you had any suspcion on General as far as voting the inactive? Looking back, the only other player I can see that even though about it was Everywhere, not General. I was all up for you to bait someone, anyone, into reacting to that ( Pretty clever if you ask me--throw a bait that strike might have eyes on you, and if you're mafia, change your way of acting just to avoid suspicion...taking the bait by trying to avoid it ) but..General? He did say something about Victor, but more or less inside the joke stage still.

And only when I called you on it that you unvoted, since you posted 3 times since drake's return.

Well drake made a few posts when he came back on a debate on the setup but I was waiting to see if he'd sink under the radar again over the test of time he hasn't (curse of the commentary) so I unvoted as he was being more active

Truth, however, if I look back, it looks like you were trying to frame him based on that setup. You already had your vote on him for a Legitimate reason ( Even though I didn't agree on the timing ) so it wasn't hard to 'pursue' that case. Honestly, setup speculation isn't the base of a case, unless he did a major scum-slip by knowing inside info.

Well strike never really made clear which person he had suspicions on (unless I missed something) but he did say that IF the person had voted, that would have confirmed strike's suspicions of that person. Since the person did not vote, it was a moot point.

My point is that just because someone you suspect gets on the bandwagon, it shouldn't confirm suspicions because the nature of the bandwagon was such that many people could jump on the bandwagon and have some justification. So it's not specific enough to target just one person. Which shouldn't add anything to a potential case.

[strike wolf]

I don't have time to make my full post but I never said it would "confirm" my suspicions. I said it would reinforce suspicions.

[Victor Sullivan]

Hm, I don't really want to vote for either candidate. It's like the Republican primaries! Ha.

-Sully

[drake_259]

Well i believe SW plan was very faulty considering the only way he would know i am town is if he was mafia, even then i could be 3rd party to his knowledge. If he was town and i was mafia (mafia would only vote me to look town) and if he was scum (would have hope town would jumped on me to FOS/Vote them and lead a town to be lynch). That maked his plan faulty for everyone as a whole except him if he was mafia among his partners.

Unless we had known each other were town this just wouldn't really work. (Meta: like vs done to me in Zelda mafia whom we were lovers and caught shield)

For this reason Unvote Vote: SW

[jonty125]

Truth, however, if I look back, it looks like you were trying to frame him based on that setup.

Well that is WIFOM. So my reasons were a) inactive b) WIFOM when part a went I was really without a cause so an unvote was in order

[edocsil]

Vote Count

Strike (2) ~ Drake Safari
General (1) ~ Strike
Jonty (1) ~ Freezie
Freezie (1) ~ Sound

2.5 days to go

[strike wolf]

I can't say that drake is town mafia or otherwise no. Nor could I say anyone else is so I didn't directly factor that into whether I would test the bait or not.

As far as my bait, I think too many people seem to think it was exactly either what I've said or I'm lying mafia. I've breadcrumbed (both intentionally but more unintentionally some information that hints that I wasn't giving the full information).

Well it would have been foolish of me to go through ahead with that post and not expect the potential for some kind of questioning. It's not optimal but I can't say I didn't see the potential and i wouldn't say it was completely ruined.

As far as tails mentioned confirmation biased based on me reading the reaction that I was looking for and pursuing. I was aware. Look again if you want I never said that it would confirm my suspicions, it was a building block. I did hype it up a little on the basis that the second comment was a bait and bluff. As I said I was looking to see if someone possibly reacted in a suspicious way (In this case I was not looking for a specific reaction just one that stood out to me). I'm willing to risk a bit of confirmation bias to get more out of day 1. Even if it did confirm a bias and I voted, there are other people who would also have to agree that the case was solid to lead into a lynch.

As far as what caught my eye:

Lol, I'm only ever scummy when I'm town it seems!

-Sully

So if you're playing a completely clean game then we know that you're scum?

Put that into the computer, Chekov.

No, Victor is always scum.

took it as a simple joke comment nothing by itself.

He was scum in Soundman's too. I got him lynched D1 and he flipped godfather. lmfao Now he isn't posting much here. Hmm...

This makes it look like he is starting to take it semi-serioously.

Meta is never bad. You may not like meta, but it is a part of mafia.

I see you drivin around
killing off my town and I'mma
META YOU
Oo Oo ooo
You see your rage when you're fos'd
just felt kinda off, so I'll
META you
And META your partner too
I said If I were mafia
I'd have blitz'd ya
Ha, now aint that some meta?
(Ain't that some meta)
I'll get reported for this
and stuck on ya blacklist but I'll still
META you

I'll admit this post made me chuckle the first time I read it but I disagree with meta in this case. It was based simply on when Victor was scum in previous games and not only is that not legitimate cause for meta. I'm okay if you want to meta the game balance just be cautious as I've suffered from that and if you're experienced on this forum than meta-ing other players can be part of a building block for a case but I don't advise it as it can go wrong as there are several reasons someone may be behaving out of character. If I remember right I was metaed in the Buffy Mafia for being quieter than usual. I was the doctor and that was the reason. Beyond this General has been on this forum for what? Less than 2 months? I don't consider that enough time to give him a pass on using meta.

Meta is never bad. You may not like meta, but it is a part of mafia.

Some aspects of meta are fine and unavoidable. I get that. It's the "Victor is always scum"-like parts that I don't like, although I am fully aware that we're joking here.

But victor is always scum...

In all seriousness, I was only partially joking. I don't mean to be arrogant to the point where I assume that he is avoiding me... BUT notice how he isn't posting in this thread only. I'm just saying that I think Vic could be a little bit afraid and as a result he is lurkymclurky.

Semi-joking or not that's a pretty lame reason to meta. Victor not posting is a possible reason to meta but he was also not posting in at least one other mafia at the time.

All this. It would be a pretty weak case to build a case upon. Only reason I really even started a case is because we were running low on time and I don't even really get the case going on between Freezie and Jonty.

I wanted to test but out of the people who were using meta on Victor he was the most vocal and I wanted to test how he would react if a case was brought up on Drake. And yes I did say bandwagoning but it wasn't really bandwagoning I was looking for. I was looking to see if he would stay on the sidelines and press a case on Drake while not necessarily voting on it. IF that had happened I felt there would be a pattern between what he was doing on the Victor Sullivan meta and the drake case. The band wagoning was misdirection in my bait comment, I refer back to this post again where I breadcrumbed that I wasn't looking for exactly what I said I was looking for:

Well it would have been foolish of me to go through ahead with that post and not expect the potential for some kind of questioning. It's not optimal but I can't say I didn't see the potential and i wouldn't say it was completely ruined.

The second comment was a secondary bait. I didn't feel as I said the first bait would get off the ground (there were a few days and I didn't see any significant reaction). I took a chance that I am now regretting to set up a second different bait to see if I could get something from that.

didn't really expect anyone to catch on to the breadcrumbs but the "Completely ruined" part was supposed to be a subtle hint that there was still something to my bait that could potentially be used.

As far as how other people could become involved. It was unlikely to have any effect and that is the truth. I would have had to see some notably odd behavior to take much note of it. I would take notes on people who voted as I always try to do regardless if I think it's bad reasoning or not, vote patterns especially early on can lead to information. Good example off the top of my head would be Briarsburg where Jace and Blake were accurately linked as scum mates based on similar voting patterns on day 1. Did I misplay the bait? Yes. I underestimated how it would be questioned and how it impacted the day. I thought that i could get more information off the questioning worst case scenario (long run maybe I have) but I don't yet see evidence that I got how much I could even if it was just the questioning. I apologize for that much.

So I think that covers the thought process I had today. I don't know if you will believe what I have to say or not but before this progresses I would like to at least have people consider this. At least some of you seem to think as I stated at the beginning of the post that I would be completely truthful in how I baited or I am lying scum so I ask simply if I am baiting why would I be so willing to let out all the information of the bait truthfully so that mafia would know immediately exactly what I had tried to do.

[TheGeneral2112]

Strike, the bottom line is what you are ignoring. I SPECIFICALLY posted my reasons for FoS'ing Vic and you continue to ignore them. The last game Vic and I were in, he tried to make a BS case against me. I called him out right away and got him lynched on D1. He flipped gf. I mentioned that in the VERY NEXT game I was playing with him, HE WAS NOT ACTIVE ON D1. I brought this up in case he was trying to avoid what had happened in the last game. Note that I didn't even VOTE him for this. I just wanted it to be mentioned. That is all and I don't know why you continue to brush over the real reason I even posted that. Your case is flawed from the start. As I mentioned when I looked over your posts, I'm not convinced that you are scum. But the more you keep trying to pull a case out of thin air, the more I think you are a maffer grasping at straws.

[strike wolf]

Strike, the bottom line is what you are ignoring. I SPECIFICALLY posted my reasons for FoS'ing Vic and you continue to ignore them. The last game Vic and I were in, he tried to make a BS case against me. I called him out right away and got him lynched on D1. He flipped gf. I mentioned that in the VERY NEXT game I was playing with him, HE WAS NOT ACTIVE ON D1. I brought this up in case he was trying to avoid what had happened in the last game. Note that I didn't even VOTE him for this. I just wanted it to be mentioned. That is all and I don't know why you continue to brush over the real reason I even posted that. Your case is flawed from the start. As I mentioned when I looked over your posts, I'm not convinced that you are scum. But the more you keep trying to pull a case out of thin air, the more I think you are a maffer grasping at straws.

I don't believe I ignored it. I said it was weak. You suggested he was ignoring this thread because he might have been avoiding you. I'm basically calling BS based on the fact that he was not posting in another mafia game I was in at that time. As far as the case. I said it was weak and that I only voted because we were running low on time trying to get some discussion going. If I believed I had a strong case I would have voted you far earlier.

[everywhere116]

Strike, the bottom line is what you are ignoring. I SPECIFICALLY posted my reasons for FoS'ing Vic and you continue to ignore them. The last game Vic and I were in, he tried to make a BS case against me. I called him out right away and got him lynched on D1. He flipped gf. I mentioned that in the VERY NEXT game I was playing with him, HE WAS NOT ACTIVE ON D1. I brought this up in case he was trying to avoid what had happened in the last game. Note that I didn't even VOTE him for this. I just wanted it to be mentioned. That is all and I don't know why you continue to brush over the real reason I even posted that. Your case is flawed from the start. As I mentioned when I looked over your posts, I'm not convinced that you are scum. But the more you keep trying to pull a case out of thin air, the more I think you are a maffer grasping at straws.

Probably had more to do with Victor becoming sick than anything. Yes, I know that he told us about his illness after most of this happened, but who knows what he was going through before he told us, and I doubt that he was symptomless before coming to the conclusion that he should tell us about his declining activity being something health-related.

Edoc said that we had 2.5 days left (probably just two now). Strike was at least trying to gather information, and his only mistake was letting on to that fact. (Traps are better when you don't talk about them, Strike.) You were trying to illogically meta out a player. We have to lynch someone, and I'm going with you.

Vote General

[everywhere116]

EBWOP Vote General

Damn muscle memory.

[TheGeneral2112]

Well you are right about having to go with someone.

VOTE STRIKE

[everywhere116]

By my count since last VC SW is at L-3 and General is at L-4.

[TheGeneral2112]

Yup, and votes could come real quick with a deadline looming.

[strike wolf]

Well General so you accuse me of not addressing your reasoning. I did. I repeated myself and without addressing that I did address your reasoning, you vote. I hope I'm not the only one who finds this a tad bit ironic.

[TheGeneral2112]

Well General so you accuse me of not addressing your reasoning. I did. I repeated myself and without addressing that I did address your reasoning, you vote. I hope I'm not the only one who finds this a tad bit ironic.

Strike, for what it is worth, I'm not convinced you are scum, but this retarded D1 tradition of a RL has unfortunately put us in a bad predicament. So for what its worth, I'm sorry.

[freezie]

Well General so you accuse me of not addressing your reasoning. I did. I repeated myself and without addressing that I did address your reasoning, you vote. I hope I'm not the only one who finds this a tad bit ironic.

Strike, for what it is worth, I'm not convinced you are scum, but this retarded D1 tradition of a RL has unfortunately put us in a bad predicament. So for what its worth, I'm sorry.

Funny how a second ago you were going against him because he did not answer you ( when he did..) and then you call out the day 1 tradition? If you're so against a lynch on day 1, don't vote.

Anyway, me voting Jonty at this stage will lead to absolutly nothing, so Unvote

I'll see what you guys keep saying.

I gotta say I now realise why you mentionned General, since most of his posts against victor, in my point of view, were joke stage material.

[edocsil]

Guys, just a word. I wanted to thank you all for playing this game. Without this group of guys playing here I would be long gone, most of the games I have played of late have been so unsatisfying they were hardly worth the effort. Watching this series unfold over the last few months has been a pleasure.

That's all, carry on.

[everywhere116]

Guys, just a word. I wanted to thank you all for playing this game. Without this group of guys playing here I would be long gone, most of the games I have played of late have been so unsatisfying they were hardly worth the effort. Watching this series unfold over the last few months has been a pleasure.

That's all, carry on.

It's like arguing with Sheogorath.

[TheGeneral2112]

Guys, just a word. I wanted to thank you all for playing this game. Without this group of guys playing here I would be long gone, most of the games I have played of late have been so unsatisfying they were hardly worth the effort. Watching this series unfold over the last few months has been a pleasure.

That's all, carry on.

I know, Edoc. I am raging in the R&J maf too...

[safariguy5]

Well General so you accuse me of not addressing your reasoning. I did. I repeated myself and without addressing that I did address your reasoning, you vote. I hope I'm not the only one who finds this a tad bit ironic.

Strike, for what it is worth, I'm not convinced you are scum, but this retarded D1 tradition of a RL has unfortunately put us in a bad predicament. So for what its worth, I'm sorry.

Well if you don't think strike is scum, then why vote for him? And you're misrepresenting Day 1 tradition as a lynch. Pressure that leads to a claim gives us information which is just as good. We don't necessarily need to lynch someone, we just need information.

unvote vote TheGeneral

[TheGeneral2112]

Okay, you got my claim now. I am Omoikane,Town Cop. Now unvote? kkthx