Twin Killler [noted]

[SimplyObsessed]

The whole concept of getting punished for something which you have no control over is frankly kind of absurd.

Not "kind of absurd"...absolutely absurd.

Creating a bunch of games that have an established history of attracting a large % of new recruits and continuing to create them is a perfect example of systematic farming and absolutely proves intent.

It doesn't prove intent at all, it proves he wishes to play 1v1 on that map which he should be able to do as a paying member.

[Jippd]

If CC thinks that the game should not be joined by NR then they should enable a feature preventing NR's from joining games by high rank players.....

Or make a feature that only allows people to join/play games when they are within 1/2 ranks of the opponents listed.

All possible options. But you can't tell a paying customer they can't play games that are within the rules it is unfair.

There should be nothing wrong with creating a public game. Whoever chooses to join chooses to join.

As someone else said you can't punish somebody for someone else's actions.

BS

[jefjef]

There should be nothing wrong with creating a public game. Whoever chooses to join chooses to join.

If games are created knowing full well that a high % of your opponents are going to be new recruits then it is targeting them. Farming.

Yes CC has some blame in this. All non standard maps (bombard type) should be blocked from NR's.

[kostko]

alstergren is exaggerating. I never saw Twin Killler inviting any NR to his game on chat. Also how can he farm/invite, if NRs freely join his games is a mistery to me. He hardly ever talks at all. But guess who I saw inviting NR to games?

Gen.LeeGettinhed <- this guy was farming on a BIG scale and got away with it. viewtopic.php?f=239&t=158738&hilit=Gen.LeeGettinhed+farmHe He initiated the games trough chat, intentionally searching for noobs. He is now No. 1 on scoreboard. And now someone is accusing Twin Killler... c'mon
My experience with Gen.LeeGettinhed in Game 8873623, chat is short but tells alot. Throw your eyeballs on this guy alstergren .

Player Twin Killler should be c.l.e.a.r.e.d. , its not his fault if NR's are joining his games.

[Tenebrus]

I must admit this whole thing has gotten a little confusing, particularly now I've read the thread on GLG.

So to sum up, inviting NRs to play difficult maps is not farming per the GLG thread, but creating difficult maps and leaving them open for anyone to join is worthy of a warning?

I really don't want to jump on the mod-bashing bus, and to be honest, if I was a mod on this site, I'd be pretty sick of all the conspiracy theories when, as far as I can see, the issues that have been raised have been dealt with fairly - Alstergren was dealt with, Masli too.

But it does seem pretty clear to me that the rules need to be clearer here. Inviting NRs/Joining NRs to play difficult maps if done consistently seems fairly clear to me that it's being done for farming purposes (I don't really care about farming to be honest because there is a risk element to it priced in by the way you win/lose points when playing low ranks, but if there is a rule it should be a good one). Similarly, I think it would put a lot of this to rest if no points were gained/lost where players are kicked out for breaking the rules because in my view that added to a lot of the angst around the Alstergren issue (and certainly did with the Masli one).

[jefjef]

I must admit this whole thing has gotten a little confusing, particularly now I've read the thread on GLG.

So to sum up, inviting NRs to play difficult maps is not farming per the GLG thread, but creating difficult maps and leaving them open for anyone to join is worthy of a warning?

I really don't want to jump on the mod-bashing bus, and to be honest, if I was a mod on this site, I'd be pretty sick of all the conspiracy theories when, as far as I can see, the issues that have been raised have been dealt with fairly - Alstergren was dealt with, Masli too.

But it does seem pretty clear to me that the rules need to be clearer here. Inviting NRs/Joining NRs to play difficult maps if done consistently seems fairly clear to me that it's being done for farming purposes (I don't really care about farming to be honest because there is a risk element to it priced in by the way you win/lose points when playing low ranks, but if there is a rule it should be a good one). Similarly, I think it would put a lot of this to rest if no points were gained/lost where players are kicked out for breaking the rules because in my view that added to a lot of the angst around the Alstergren issue (and certainly did with the Masli one).

The difference is NEW RECRUITS. ?. GLG plays low ranks. He does not target the non rankers...

Illegal farming ONLY pertains to new recruits.

[Tenebrus]

Ah, fair enough then; my bad! I still think the warning for TK was a bit harsh though. And games where people are booted should be no gain/loss re the booted player.

Pretty poor show of Alstergren to be poo-stirring as well.

[TheGeneral2112]

Ah, fair enough then; my bad! I still think the warning for TK was a bit harsh though. And games where people are booted should be no gain/loss re the booted player.

Pretty poor show of Alstergren to be poo-stirring as well.

I guess he is a little buttsore that he can't continue to farm new recruits.

[Jippd]

There should be nothing wrong with creating a public game. Whoever chooses to join chooses to join.

If games are created knowing full well that a high % of your opponents are going to be new recruits then it is targeting them. Farming.

Yes CC has some blame in this. All non standard maps (bombard type) should be blocked from NR's.

Prove to me what someone 'knows'. I doubt it can be done with any technology I know of in existence today. You can never prove what one knows or does not know.

If CC thinks there is a problem THEY need to change the settings on their end. You don't pay to be a customer and then get told afterwards oh you can't do this or you can't do that. If CC wants to do that then they need to offer refunds because when people signed up there was not a rule that said:

If you create public games that you like to play and new recruits join them frequently, then you won't be allowed to play those settings any more. Even though you are a paying customer

If CC determines a certain set of settings on a given map is 'taking advantage of new recruits' then they should add the map and respective settings to the list of maps NR's can't play.

If these are the settings TK likes to play there should be no reason he can't play them.

"If you are found guilty of New Recruit Farming---that is, systematically joining games with new recruits in order to "farm" newbies for points, you will find yourself escalating on the New Recruit Farming Vacation scale."

Show me one game that TwinKiller joined with new recruits? All I see are games TK created and had joined by new recruits. Doesn't seem to be a violation as listed per the community guidelines. As such there can be no violation.

Another possible solution is block TK from playing with new recruits. I doubt he would mind and then the issue is solved?

[danryan]

I just made 10 more games and sent out invites to all the high ranked players I know join my games now if they are scared to join and a NR does its not my fault.

Send me some invites dude. I love me some cairnswk maps.

[Agent 86]

( Noted for what ?) Making 1 v 1 games for all to join. -1 for alstergren even bringing TK into this ( spurious report ). -3 for the mods who haven't a clue. Block NR's from joining this map..oh my god how many have said this. TW enjoys this map and takes on anyone, so CC is at fault for this.

TK, you play the map you like, that's what you pay this site for..so many of TK's friends find this accusation PREPOSTEROUS ( absurd ) !!

86

[Jippd]

I'm not TK's friend but I do find it absurd. You can't say TK is not allowed to play a certain map with settings but anybody else can.

I thought this site was about treating people fairly? It seems warning TK and imposing unfair and different rules on him because he has a rank higher than 2000 points sounds like that conflicts with the treating people fairly idea. What is allowed for one should be allowed for all.

[Bruceswar]

It is common sense people. The farming rules were put in place to stop things like this from happening. If you make 50 games of the same / map settings and only 10 people who are not new recruits join... well then maybe it is best you try a new map and settings for a bit. Supply and demand. He knew what he was doing and every last one of you are taking his bait. Do not let this farmer get away with it.

[General Brock II]

It is common sense people. The farming rules were put in place to stop things like this from happening. If you make 50 games of the same / map settings and only 10 people who are not new recruits join... well then maybe it is best you try a new map and settings for a bit. Supply and demand. He knew what he was doing and every last one of you are taking his bait. Do not let this farmer get away with it.

Now wait a moment, Bruce. Are you a biased party? You're blatantly labelling TK and have been creating partisan posts throughout this entire thread against him. I don't care what your personal agenda against TK is, but you haven't any justification about attempting to influence the decision of the actual C&A moderator just because you're a chat mod.

I feel like making 200 AOR II games, and if NRs join half of them, will I be accused of farming? I think that it's correct that Poison Rome should be removed from the NR games list. And if TK does lose to a NR, cadet or private, he stands to lose over fourty points! As compared to winning what... 4 per game? Considering that he paid his membership, he should be permitted to create as many Poison Rome games as he wants, and if fools join them, then fools can pay the price. Where's the personal responsibility?

[Bruceswar]

It is common sense people. The farming rules were put in place to stop things like this from happening. If you make 50 games of the same / map settings and only 10 people who are not new recruits join... well then maybe it is best you try a new map and settings for a bit. Supply and demand. He knew what he was doing and every last one of you are taking his bait. Do not let this farmer get away with it.

Now wait a moment, Bruce. Are you a biased party? You're blatantly labelling TK and have been creating partisan posts throughout this entire thread against him. I don't care what your personal agenda against TK is, but you haven't any justification about attempting to influence the decision of the actual C&A moderator just because you're a chat mod.

I feel like making 200 AOR II games, and if NRs join half of them, will I be accused of farming? I think that it's correct that Poison Rome should be removed from the NR games list. And if TK does lose to a NR, cadet or private, he stands to lose over fourty points! As compared to winning what... 4 per game? Considering that he paid his membership, he should be permitted to create as many Poison Rome games as he wants, and if fools join them, then fools can pay the price. Where's the personal responsibility?

I have nothing against TK. I am just stating the rules as they are. Like it or not that is the rules on CC. If you made 200 AOR 1 games and 50% filled with New recruits you likely would be in C&A also. Just play a few less and you will not end up here. There again supply and demand.

[Jippd]

Can you please link me to the rule listed on the site that says you cannot create games that New Recruits will join?

[Woodruff]

The whole concept of getting punished for something which you have no control over is frankly kind of absurd.

Not "kind of absurd"...absolutely absurd.

Creating a bunch of games that have an established history of attracting a large % of new recruits and continuing to create them is a perfect example of systematic farming and absolutely proves intent.

It only proves "intent" if you believe that thought crimes should be punishable. Do you believe thought crimes should be punishable? You also seem to have snipped the very relevant point made alongside this...why is that, jefjef? Didn't have an argument against it?

[Woodruff]

If CC thinks that the game should not be joined by NR then they should enable a feature preventing NR's from joining games by high rank players.....

Of which there have been A LARGE NUMBER OF VERY GOOD SUGGESTED MODES FOR DOING THIS!

[Woodruff]

I really don't want to jump on the mod-bashing bus, and to be honest, if I was a mod on this site, I'd be pretty sick of all the conspiracy theories when, as far as I can see, the issues that have been raised have been dealt with fairly - Alstergren was dealt with, Masli too.

Alstergren was dealt with fairly? There was NO PUNISHMENT AT ALL. None. Zero. He was not dealt with at all...it was swept under the rug with a no-teeth, meaningless policy change.

[jefjef]

The whole concept of getting punished for something which you have no control over is frankly kind of absurd.

Not "kind of absurd"...absolutely absurd.

Creating a bunch of games that have an established history of attracting a large % of new recruits and continuing to create them is a perfect example of systematic farming and absolutely proves intent.

It only proves "intent" if you believe that thought crimes should be punishable. Do you believe thought crimes should be punishable? You also seem to have snipped the very relevant point made alongside this...why is that, jefjef? Didn't have an argument against it?

Well Mister triple post. <posting violation>

What? Ok. Lets all pretend that he never noticed that his games were consistently being joined by a lot of new recruits.

AND I also see that you are up in arms for lack of punishment given to Alstergren, who happens to be blocked from NR's because he had too many as opponents.

Nice double standard/vision there woody. Me thinks you are simply trolling.

[Bruceswar]

Can you please link me to the rule listed on the site that says you cannot create games that New Recruits will join?

Ask and you shall get..


http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=159596&p=3494877&hilit=farming#p3494877

And another

[Log To Paddle]

Re: caymanmew multis? Farming?

Postby king achilles on Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:23 pm
Cleared of the multi case.

As for the farming, with the post below, I could consider this as his intention for making that many games using a particular map.

caymanmew wrote:honestly points are fun but they come second to enjoyment of the game i don't know what it is but i love that map and considering it is an event map i know i have to play as many games as fast as possible as it will be gone soon for who know how long.

i make like 40 games with my favorite settings (freestyle, manual, fog i only put nukes in for the medal i will stop doing that now that i have gold. not that nukes change the game as it is normally over before 5th card) if i made then before i went to bed by morning i only have like 15-20 left so they will fast....



This report is still noted for reference. Caymanmew, take this report as your Warning for farming new recruits. After this report, I would hope that we won't get another future report that you are again, collecting new recruits for a medal or because of another special event.



These games cayman made were all 1 vs 1 games on the world cup map.

[Jippd]

Those are previous cases where rulings have been made, not rules listed on the conquer club website officially under any rules section.

If there is a rule that TK violated it should be listed clearly under the rules section.

[Bruceswar]

Those are previous cases where rulings have been made, not rules listed on the conquer club website officially under any rules section.

If there is a rule that TK violated it should be listed clearly under the rules section.

The rule has been stated over and over. Twin Killer knew what he was doing. Sure it might not be 100% in text that anybody can read, but farming is farming.


and If you ask me..I would say the quoted rule below covers it.


Unwritten Rules

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.

[Jippd]

If you follow the community guidelines link there is a definition of farming:

Systematically Farming "New Recruits"
If you are found guilty of New Recruit Farming---that is, systematically joining games with new recruits in order to "farm" newbies for points, you will find yourself escalating on the New Recruit Farming Vacation scale.

Systematically Farming New Recruits Infraction levels are as follows:
Warning
1 Month Vacation / Block from joining games with New Recruits
3 Month Vacation / Block from joining games with New Recruits
Permanent Vacation / Block from joining games with New Recruits



As it is outlined it says joining games with new recruits. Not creating games that new recruits end up joining. My point is if a rule is to be enforced the rule should be listed. It is not, and as the website conquer club defines farming with this definition I don't see how TK violated it.

It should be conquer clubs responsibility to block new recruits from playing the map if they think it is an unfair map.

[Woodruff]

The whole concept of getting punished for something which you have no control over is frankly kind of absurd.

Not "kind of absurd"...absolutely absurd.

Creating a bunch of games that have an established history of attracting a large % of new recruits and continuing to create them is a perfect example of systematic farming and absolutely proves intent.

It only proves "intent" if you believe that thought crimes should be punishable. Do you believe thought crimes should be punishable? You also seem to have snipped the very relevant point made alongside this...why is that, jefjef? Didn't have an argument against it?

Well Mister triple post. <posting violation>

What? Ok. Lets all pretend that he never noticed that his games were consistently being joined by a lot of new recruits.

AND I also see that you are up in arms for lack of punishment given to Alstergren, who happens to be blocked from NR's because he had too many as opponents.

Nice double standard/vision there woody. Me thinks you are simply trolling.

Alstergren quite specifically invited NRs into his games. Alstergren quite specifically joined games of players repeatedly even though those players asked him repeatedly not to (they did not understand the foe function)...at least one of which left the site when Alstergren did it one last time. I am absolutely up in arms for the lack of a punishment given to Alstergren because the idea that a blocking from playing NRs is a "punishment" is ludicrous to anyone without an axe to grind (such as yourself).

Whereas Twin Killer...set up some games on a map that NRs shouldn't even be allowed to play on (per standards set on this site) and NRs joined them without his knowledge nor invitation. That is the sum total of his violation.

No double standard at all, though you would appear to be trolling in my opinion...