Get Rich from the Bank [5/12] Town Wins!

[Leitz]

I'm shocked! How is this possible?

I am "Teller" Bullet-Proof Town. Another reason I didn't fully claim is because anything bulletproof usually screams a Fakeclaim for the Godfather. Unfortunately that is what I am stuck with.

Do you believe there is a Godfather mafia in this game? Bullet-proof means you can't be killed when they first try to lynch you? Or not at all even?

You two, Mob and Sundog, are saying neither of you killed anyone. So that would leave the remaining three of us to have revived Deuce, kill jonty, and kill maxbandit.

Deuce is Town Survivor, so I think he got revived by himself. I think he wasn't really killed, but more unconscious or the likes. Is Deuce behind the killing of the mafia? His revival was mentioned afterwards but might that not have an influence?

As this is only my second mafia game I have no idea what possible objectives a third party can have. Is it surviving? Is it winning if a specific person is lynched?

I asked this question earlier in the game, does nobody know the answer please?

I calculated some numbers in my previous post, but I'll do it again:
6 players left:

Sundog: claimed "Suicidial Hero"
MoB: claimed "Teller" Bullet-Proof Town
Deuce: "Wife Ginger" Town Survivor
catnip
IB: Maggie Silver Vanilla Townie
Leitz

So that adds up to 4 town players and including myself 5 town players. Either catnip very cleverly avoided all suspicion, or there is a fake claim out there. Not to be picky or anything, but Iron Butterfly: you're the only one who claimed without the use of " " in the claim. It might seem small, but that means you did not literally copy & paste as most people would do in my belief.

[MoB Deadly]

I can be killed via lynch, (or poisoning if he was alive) but it just means I cant be shot by the mafia or a vigi. Guns wont kill me.

[MoB Deadly]

If one of us has to be lying Sundog can shoot me tonight.

If I am lying I will die, and he will die tomorrow if he is not lying. but thats only if its 100% down to me or sundog.

I think we need more claims, that is my view, unless other players have more info to build off of

[Leitz]

If one of us has to be lying Sundog can shoot me tonight.

If I am lying I will die, and he will die tomorrow if he is not lying. but thats only if its 100% down to me or sundog.

I think we need more claims, that is my view, unless other players have more info to build off of

Lately suspicions were mostly on the two of you yes, but nobody ever mentioned it had to be between you. Maybe we're even looking in the complete wrong direction!

I also assume if we'd let Sundog lynch you and you're both right you would survive and Sundog gets killed despite not killing you, is this correct?

[catnipdreams]

I decided to search for info about the various roles we know about:

Survivor

The Survivor is a neutral player, and wins when any other team or player wins (the survivor merely needs to avoid elimination).

- - - - - - - -

A Survivor is a lone player whose goal is to live until any other faction achieves their Win Condition, be it Town or scum. If the Survivor dies, it loses.

Survivors are not known for getting any kind of compensation to help them achieve their Win Condition.

VariationsSometimes Survivors simply have to live until a certain point in the game (i.e. Day 3) instead of all the way through the game.

Use and PowerSurvivor is almost always thrown into games for thematic reasons. Not many people want to play as one. In practice it's worth somewhat less than a Vanilla Townie.

Play AdviceSurvivors are traditionally considered anti-Town and thus premium lynch targets. In truth, whether a Survivor is a burden to the Town is up to the Survivor's mentality. The Survivor can't be too much of a help to the Town or else they will get killed at Night; they can't be too much of a burden to Town or they will get lynched for sanity's sake. Thus, playing as Survivor requires the player to pace themselves.

One nasty strategy at early LyLo as Survivor is to vote a Townie immediately and let the scum perform an extended quickhammer for the win.


Bullet-proof


Bulletproof is a role modifier that allows a player to avoid being killed at Night. This does not extend to protection from lynches

Townies with unlimited Bulletproof are very rare because they can generally only be killed by the lynch

suicidal hero

I couldn't find anything on this....

I probably didn't fully capture the meanings here - just figured I'd post as a starting point for us to consider these roles...

And as far as I can tell, third party win conditions vary, so a third party player could be ok for town, or not ok for town.

[Iron Butterfly]

I fully beleive there is a Doctor role in this game. That would be either Cat or Leitz.

I can not imagine a game like this with out some protective role, which we have not seen.

I also beleive there is only one killer left as to have 3 Mafia and 3 third party (Deuce can technigly be called third party) Would be just insane.

A third party killer would make sense as They would be able to target both a mafia player such as jonty or Maximum bandit. the other person killed could have been targeted by town.

Cat and Lietz may as well claim so we can put this puzzle together.

[catnipdreams]

Cat and Lietz may as well claim so we can put this puzzle together.

before I claim, are we all sure about this?

[Iron Butterfly]

In the present situation I dont see any other way.

[Sundog308]

I also beleive there is only one killer left as to have 3 Mafia and 3 third party (Deuce can technigly be called third party) Would be just insane.

I'm still confused on why Deuce should be listed as third party. I think that yes, his win condition may have been tied with PCM's, but Skill directly refers to Deuce as Town!

Dueceswild222 “Wife Ginger” Town Survivor, lover - Commits Suicide Night 1
Dueceswild222 has been revived Night 2

[Leitz]

In the present situation I dont see any other way.

I know my role and if catnip claims town too, which she obviously will, that leaves us with six claims on the table and the fact that we need to pick out the fake claim. I don't see much difference between that situation and this one besides the extra claims on the table. Of course, if everyone agrees, I will come forward to with my role too.

[MoB Deadly]

I think we will have a better idea who is lying and who isnt with everyone claiming. I haven't played with some of these players before, I'm hoping they make it easy with an unreasonable fake claim

[catnipdreams]

I'd like to keep the claiming as a last resort, if we could, please. We haven't really discussed the current claims in depth - and I have a question about the bullet-proof role... From what I have read about it, "bullet-proof" means that the player can not be killed under certain conditions, but, this business of bullets vs. knives - I haven't seen that in what I've read. Could this be a game variant, or, could this be a lie?

[catnipdreams]

EBWOP - I thought knives were mentioned, but now it looks like all I can find is poison - anyway, point being, all I've read about the role is you can be killed/not killed under certain conditions, but the METHOD of killing was not a factor....

[MoB Deadly]

here you go

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Bulletproof

Pretty much I am only protected from guns. Such as from the mafia, vigilantes, etc...

SK, poisoners, lynch all could kill me

[catnipdreams]

Ah - thank you - and are you one-shot bulletproof?

[MoB Deadly]

The PM did not specify how many times,

[Sundog308]

And unfortunately, "Suicide Hero" is fairly convincing in a Bank Robbery. Do you by any chance have a name associated with your character Sundog?

If by name, you mean my town association, then yes: "Town Martyr" I looked it up when I got the role, but it seemed more vigilante to me because I can kill during either night or day phase. Kinda like I'm a hybrid creation. (Speaking of hybrids, anyone seen the tv show, Invasion?)

I've been thinking more about Deuces revival during the night. I initially believed that he self revived, but Skill's post first post showing everyone's status says "Commits Suicide". I'm going to assume suicide would be as permanent as a lynch or night kill. Here is my speculation: What if the Doctor role in this game can also revive characters?
IB is quite concerned that the balance of the game would be out of whack if there are 3 Mafia, plus 2 Third Party killers. I'm still convinced there are 2 Third Party killers (the only way to explain two death's during N2), but if the Doctor had a choice to revive instead of protect that would even out the balance of power pretty well. N1 the Doc would have protected someone. N2, who better to revive than Deuces, who has a confirmed Town role? Sure he's also a survivor, which carries separate win conditions, but it's definitely not an anti-town role.

The Doctor with a revive ability also gives a possible answer for not having some protective role yet.

I fully beleive there is a Doctor role in this game. That would be either Cat or Leitz.

I can not imagine a game like this with out some protective role, which we have not seen.

I also beleive there is only one killer left as to have 3 Mafia and 3 third party (Deuce can technigly be called third party) Would be just insane.

A third party killer would make sense as They would be able to target both a mafia player such as jonty or Maximum bandit. the other person killed could have been targeted by town.

Cat and Lietz may as well claim so we can put this puzzle together.

Mob needs to claim as does Dundog

Anyone else find it curious that IB has now requested everyone else in the game to claim, but has made no such offer himself besides a soft claim of no power role? Both Leitz and Cat have said they are reluctant to claim but will do so if it becomes necessary, while Mob and I have come out fully.

Could IB be a third party with a win condition of killing a specific character? If this is the case, having everyone else claim would then give him the chance to make his kill tonight and win the game!

I'm getting very close to switching my vote to IB, but I would like for him to get a chance to state his case and claim his role.

[Leitz]

Anyone else find it curious that IB has now requested everyone else in the game to claim, but has made no such offer himself besides a soft claim of no power role? Both Leitz and Cat have said they are reluctant to claim but will do so if it becomes necessary, while Mob and I have come out fully.

Could IB be a third party with a win condition of killing a specific character? If this is the case, having everyone else claim would then give him the chance to make his kill tonight and win the game!

I'm getting very close to switching my vote to IB, but I would like for him to get a chance to state his case and claim his role.

I had the same thought: it was IB who first mentioned a mass claim (many pages back) I think and he still keeps pushing for everyone to claim. That is why I'm so hesitant to claim my role. I've always said I believed there was another third party running around and the way IB is acting it might well be him.

Also, the fact that he claimed without " " as I mentioned earlier didn't get any response. It is something REALLY small, but it might just be proof enough of a fake claim. It seems unlikely that the IB <--> Rodion thing on D1 was staged so I think we can clear him out as mafia, but he definitely isn't cleared as third party!

[Leitz]

Ok, I quickly went to check the mass claim proposal and it was NOT Iron Butterfly, but MoB Deadly who suggested it! Sorry IB!

I believe the non-town aligned players are: IB 3rd party, MoB mafia. My vote already stands on MoB (page 30).

[catnipdreams]

MoB said that he did not know if he was bulletproof once, or multiple times, yet he posted a link explaining his role, in which the issue of being one-shot bulletproof vs. multiple times bulletproof was clearly mentioned. If I had been assigned this role, and had researched it, I would have been extremely curious about this aspect, and would have PMed the mod to ask for clarification. It seems odd to me that MoB apparently did not do this, as MoB stated that the mod "didn't say", not that the mod "wouldn't say", as in "didn't say in the original PM", vs "wouldn't say after being PMed about it". A very small detail, yet we are looking for small details now, I think. Also, MoB did vote to lynch Zimmah extremely quickly; I don't have a problem with the vote itself, given the situation, but the speed of it bothered me at the time, and still does a bit. FOS MoB

I would like to make use of Sundog's claimed ability to kill in the day phase, in some fashion, but I'm not sure how best to do that. If he were to kill someone during the day, would we find out about it BEFORE we lynched someone? It gives us two chances to kill the remaining mafia player, or the remaining 3rd party killer, before one (or two) night kills would have the chance to occur...

And I really don't know what to do about deuce - I remain deeply suspicious that he didn't come back with the same role... Note that with Rodion mod killed, wouldn't it be clever to revive someone, and make them mafia, to balance the unexpected killing of a mafia member? FOS deuce.

[MoB Deadly]

BOOM, caught Sundog in a lie! I will address all other posts later today but I am very sure Sundog is Mafia now. His claim "is missing details" as catnip would say.

Here notice where the quotations are:

As far as claiming goes, I know I can't quote the PM, but here is the summary:
I am "Suicidal Hero". It seems to me like it's a vigilante role, but I can kill during either day or night phase. The exception is that when I make the kill, I die as well.

Now he character claims: and notice the quotations again

If by name, you mean my town association, then yes: "Town Martyr" I looked it up when I got the role, but it seemed more vigilante to me because I can kill during either night or day phase. Kinda like I'm a hybrid creation. (Speaking of hybrids, anyone seen the tv show, Invasion?)

Very inconsistent. What does his role say "Town Martyr" "Suicidal Hero" I dont think so at all!!!!

______________________________________________________________________________________

Well skip all that anyway, Sundog claims that he can kill during the day. Given the position we are in we have to 100% tell him to use his ability today. I wan't to hear everyone's suggestion as to who we should kill today.

See this is why we claim, Sundogs role whether its true or not, just saved the game for us either way. (most likely)

[MoB Deadly]

Why didnt I see that daykill ability the first time he claimed..... hmm...

and this is neither here nor there, but a "martyr" does not sound very townlike at all. I looked up multiple definitions and it just doesn't seem to fit the other characters in the game

[Iron Butterfly]

And unfortunately, "Suicide Hero" is fairly convincing in a Bank Robbery. Do you by any chance have a name associated with your character Sundog?

If by name, you mean my town association, then yes: "Town Martyr" I looked it up when I got the role, but it seemed more vigilante to me because I can kill during either night or day phase. Kinda like I'm a hybrid creation. (Speaking of hybrids, anyone seen the tv show, Invasion?)

I've been thinking more about Deuces revival during the night. I initially believed that he self revived, but Skill's post first post showing everyone's status says "Commits Suicide". I'm going to assume suicide would be as permanent as a lynch or night kill. Here is my speculation: What if the Doctor role in this game can also revive characters?
IB is quite concerned that the balance of the game would be out of whack if there are 3 Mafia, plus 2 Third Party killers. I'm still convinced there are 2 Third Party killers (the only way to explain two death's during N2), but if the Doctor had a choice to revive instead of protect that would even out the balance of power pretty well. N1 the Doc would have protected someone. N2, who better to revive than Deuces, who has a confirmed Town role? Sure he's also a survivor, which carries separate win conditions, but it's definitely not an anti-town role.

The Doctor with a revive ability also gives a possible answer for not having some protective role yet.

I fully beleive there is a Doctor role in this game. That would be either Cat or Leitz.

I can not imagine a game like this with out some protective role, which we have not seen.

I also beleive there is only one killer left as to have 3 Mafia and 3 third party (Deuce can technigly be called third party) Would be just insane.

A third party killer would make sense as They would be able to target both a mafia player such as jonty or Maximum bandit. the other person killed could have been targeted by town.

Cat and Lietz may as well claim so we can put this puzzle together.

Mob needs to claim as does Dundog

Anyone else find it curious that IB has now requested everyone else in the game to claim, but has made no such offer himself besides a soft claim of no power role? Both Leitz and Cat have said they are reluctant to claim but will do so if it becomes necessary, while Mob and I have come out fully.

Could IB be a third party with a win condition of killing a specific character? If this is the case, having everyone else claim would then give him the chance to make his kill tonight and win the game!

I'm getting very close to switching my vote to IB, but I would like for him to get a chance to state his case and claim his role.

You would know, if you where paying attention to what goes on in this game that I was pressured to claim early. There was no soft claim. I am "Maggie Silver" Vanilla Townie. I have no powers. I have never made a secrete of my role or what I can do.
Is there a reason you mistated that information?

You also seem intent on the two players left theory while the CC archives and common sense balance issues scream against it.

[Sundog308]

Notice how Rodion have buried information relevant to my case under needless walls of text. That is another classic scum tactic

Heres somthing to consider for the "undecided Town"

Mafia plays as a team NOT as a solo act. especially in a game this small. If I were mafia i gauruntee there would have been others to draw the case away from me. No one has teamed up to pound away on any of my targets. I have had a few maybe he is maybe he isnt but nothing to make more then a one man fight. Notice how Rodion and company have rallied around to take me down? the three of them smell blood and need two more town to lynch.

I am Maggie Silver Vanilla Townie

I have played my role from the start with the intent of not worrying about being lynched. if eagle hadnt been such a jerk we might of had alittle more room for error. Now we dont.
If you do lynch me and if folks make it through the night safe or even if you dont You better make damn sure you lynch Rodion.

maximum bandit turned out to be "John Doe" Vanilla Townie.
My claim was "Maggie Silver" Vanilla Townie.

The reason I misstated that information is because I was only looking at the last couple pages last night. Not back to page 28, and certainly not back to page 14! You are correct, you have already claimed.

Speaking of page 14 though.... in the middle of an argument to the death IB claims very early in the game that he is a Vanilla Townie. Is that what we want to accept as his final claim?

Also, yes, I do believe there is still 1 third party role left. You have stated repeatedly that you do not believe that. If we are to assume you are correct, and the balance of power calls for only 1 third party, who is already dead, how do you explain Jonty's death?

[eagleblade]

I know I can't do voices "beyond the grave" but this I still read this forum to learn mafia better. Is it normal for the "husband" to be third party and for the "wife" to be town?