Alstergren - Farming [blocked]

[alster]

For it to be systematic, I would assume that it would have to reach a relatively high % of games joined.

Systematic doesn't imply a high percentage. It implies you use a system.

Fair enough. But joining public games isn't such a system unless one would focus too much on joining games with ?s. And if having such a focus, one would have a relatively high % of games against ?s. I don't (which I think is obvious looking at my game list). But I don't mind playing a ? (which is not in itself prohibited sine they have to play someone), but keep these games being a very low share of the games I join in order to avoid being accused of ?-farming. As I said, was a bit surprised to see nine ?-games being listed, but these games covers quite a few days and is just a fluctuation having joined a lot of games lately. If this is ?-farming, then it's really difficult to follow the rules unless avoiding playing ? completely (but I understand that this is not the purpose of the rule since the rule was supposed to target systematic streaks).

[TheGeneral2112]

For it to be systematic, I would assume that it would have to reach a relatively high % of games joined.

Systematic doesn't imply a high percentage. It implies you use a system.

Fair enough. But joining public games isn't such a system unless one would focus too much on joining games with ?s. And if having such a focus, one would have a relatively high % of games against ?s. I don't (which I think is obvious looking at my game list). But I don't mind playing a ? (which is not in itself prohibited sine they have to play someone), but keep these games being a very low share of the games I join in order to avoid being accused of ?-farming. As I said, was a bit surprised to see nine ?-games being listed, but these games covers quite a few days and is just a fluctuation having joined a lot of games lately. If this is ?-farming, then it's really difficult to follow the rules unless avoiding playing ? completely (but I understand that this is not the purpose of the rule since the rule was supposed to target systematic streaks).

These nine games listed are out of the last five days. Thank you, that is all.

[afroaction]

Creating games and having "?" and lower ranks such as cooks and cadets joining your games is one thing, there's no way of controlling that; but methodical, deliberate active seeking out those games is a form of bullying and farming. Sure you may think you're the big man on campus because you can beat up little girls and this great CC player because you prey on the weak, but in reality you're a weak pathetic scared little boy. Level the playing field by joining games with equal or higher ranks to truly prove your skill and worth!

[macbone]

There's an easy way to put the accusations to rest - stop joining so many games with NRs, Alster.

[Tenebrus]

I'm not a mod-basher by any means, I think they pretty much do a great job, and the Masli issue was handled fairly well. I also think that Alstergren isn't systematically targeting new recruits (although maybe a bit of a warning to mix it up a bit judging from his more recent practice). It's also worth noting that unless you are farming on particular maps, playing low ranks can be a risky strategy. You need to win 8 for every 1 just to break even. It doesn't really look like Alstergren is farming at all to me.

That said, I've been here for years and played over 6,700 games. I've played 24 hour, and speed, most maps. I've played 2-8 player frequently. I'm not a member of a clan, and I don't really have CC "friends" (though there's definitely players I respect) so I'd expect to have played against more individual players than a lot of other people, and I have never - not once - never had a player kicked out of one of my games for being a multi. Four out of 9 recent games? I don't really care about my points, I'm here for the enjoyment but this does kind of stick in the craw a bit. I can't see any way that happens without someone feeding names of multis.

Given the bad feeling this has caused (and obviously continues to cause), isn't it time to change the sytem so that if a player is kicked out for breaking the rules no points are gained/lost in that game? Otherwise, this is going to keep on happening and it is very hard to police mods (who again, I stress, I think generally do a bang-up job) passing information to their friends and taking advantage of this.

[Barney Rubble]

Excellent Point Tenebrus ....Man are you opening up a can of whoop ass .......Farmers being feed multis ...oh Boy thats gonna get this Thread rocking !!

[hmsps]

Level the playing field by joining games with equal or higher ranks to truly prove your skill and worth!

I offered this in callouts some time ago but surprise surprise he didnt have the guts to through with it. I agree with previous posters that nothing will happen with this case, it appears that KA has given him a guidline basically for how to pick on ? and he is merely sticking to it. Sadly he is just not as good as GLG at doing it.

[mviola]

Sigh - just got a head's up regarding this thread.

A bit surprised to see nine ?s games (although four is/was against multis, so hardly ?s in practice).I have played over 10,000 games and am aware of only two multi busts. What is happening with your games is very similar to masli and eye84,except your not a multi hunter. Your frequent partner eye84 is a mh and would not surprise me if he is helping you out in both your team games with him and your 1 v 1 games. In any event, these games covers quite a few days and just a fluctuation having joined a lot of games lately, both 1v1s and others. Looking at my game list, I don't see how this could be a farming case since games with ?s in them is a very small minority of the games in my game list. Joining games against ?s is allowed so long as it isn't systematic targeting of new recruits and I try to make sure I stay far away from such an amount of ?s so it could be considered anything close to systematic.

I keep KA's past ruling on this in mind to keep my game list away from anything near systematic:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=118608&p=2618284&hilit=alstergren#p2624248Do you put this ruling under your pillow before you go to sleep?

But I don't mind throwing in a game or two with ?s. It's a pretty bad point loss if loosing but it adds, unique kills a ranking which I enjoy improving. We can all see you do not mind playing many games with ? and join even when asked not to.You mention loosing...here is from the urban dictionary1. loosing 230 up, 36 down

You never use this word so please spell "losing" correctly from now on.
You mean you are LOSING the war, not LOOSING you idiot!
buy loosing mugs & shirts
by Real World Person Sep 13, 2005 share this add a video
2. Loosing 81 up, 4 down

THANK YOU! In the last 6 months everyone seems to be writing 'loosing'. THE WORD YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IS LOSING.
L-O-S-I-N-G. You are losing the match, you are losing your talent, you are losing your virginity! The second definition is wrong, you would say 'loosening'You mention you want to add to your unique kills......I am certain there is a huge untapped resource of players ranked above the rank of cadet that you have yet to play

For it to be systematic, I would assume that it would have to reach a relatively high % of games joined. I would, looking at past rulings I'm aware of, assume that systematic entails a double digit % (games joined against ?s) at least. E.g. (at a quick search): http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=159499&start=0&hilit=farming So no, don't think this complaint holds water. But what do I know, haven't paid much attention to the C&A Forum during the past year or so don't know if the decision practice regarding this rule has changed. Feel free to post a link in that case and substantiate the complaints with some facts taking my game history in account (and not just cherry picking a few games).

I understand though that there has been some whining about the mods lately. Don't particularly enjoy seeing these posts connecting me to this whining. What is the deal here, "guilty" by association. Would appreciate to have this thread closed on the merits and not having it influenced by general complaints to influence the C&A mods.

Not sure what you mean by whining, unless you are talking about cheating of which may have gone unpunished but is well documentedFinally, I would not lose any sleep over this complaint because you are well connected and almost certainly well be free to continue your farming operations.

Grammar corrections coming from someone who writes English worse than some non native speakers on this site. I have now seen it all...

[GeneralRisk]

Sigh - just got a head's up regarding this thread.

A bit surprised to see nine ?s games (although four is/was against multis, so hardly ?s in practice).I have played over 10,000 games and am aware of only two multi busts. What is happening with your games is very similar to masli and eye84,except your not a multi hunter. Your frequent partner eye84 is a mh and would not surprise me if he is helping you out in both your team games with him and your 1 v 1 games. In any event, these games covers quite a few days and just a fluctuation having joined a lot of games lately, both 1v1s and others. Looking at my game list, I don't see how this could be a farming case since games with ?s in them is a very small minority of the games in my game list. Joining games against ?s is allowed so long as it isn't systematic targeting of new recruits and I try to make sure I stay far away from such an amount of ?s so it could be considered anything close to systematic.

I keep KA's past ruling on this in mind to keep my game list away from anything near systematic:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=118608&p=2618284&hilit=alstergren#p2624248Do you put this ruling under your pillow before you go to sleep?

But I don't mind throwing in a game or two with ?s. It's a pretty bad point loss if loosing but it adds, unique kills a ranking which I enjoy improving. We can all see you do not mind playing many games with ? and join even when asked not to.You mention loosing...here is from the urban dictionary1. loosing 230 up, 36 down

You never use this word so please spell "losing" correctly from now on.
You mean you are LOSING the war, not LOOSING you idiot!
buy loosing mugs & shirts
by Real World Person Sep 13, 2005 share this add a video
2. Loosing 81 up, 4 down

THANK YOU! In the last 6 months everyone seems to be writing 'loosing'. THE WORD YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IS LOSING.
L-O-S-I-N-G. You are losing the match, you are losing your talent, you are losing your virginity! The second definition is wrong, you would say 'loosening'You mention you want to add to your unique kills......I am certain there is a huge untapped resource of players ranked above the rank of cadet that you have yet to play

For it to be systematic, I would assume that it would have to reach a relatively high % of games joined. I would, looking at past rulings I'm aware of, assume that systematic entails a double digit % (games joined against ?s) at least. E.g. (at a quick search): http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=159499&start=0&hilit=farming So no, don't think this complaint holds water. But what do I know, haven't paid much attention to the C&A Forum during the past year or so don't know if the decision practice regarding this rule has changed. Feel free to post a link in that case and substantiate the complaints with some facts taking my game history in account (and not just cherry picking a few games).

I understand though that there has been some whining about the mods lately. Don't particularly enjoy seeing these posts connecting me to this whining. What is the deal here, "guilty" by association. Would appreciate to have this thread closed on the merits and not having it influenced by general complaints to influence the C&A mods.

Not sure what you mean by whining, unless you are talking about cheating of which may have gone unpunished but is well documentedFinally, I would not lose any sleep over this complaint because you are well connected and almost certainly well be free to continue your farming operations.

Grammar corrections coming from someone who writes English worse than some non native speakers on this site. I have now seen it all...

Are you another moron that looses games with bad dices?

[jefjef]

Are you another moron that looses games with bad dices?

LOSES.

Keep it on topic please. Your off topic flaming will not be tolerated.

Now back to the topic. alster is walking the line on this. He knows it. It's likely that this will be NOTED. It should be.

[Leehar]

Whats with all the glg comparisons? Hasn't Alster been a conqueror long before as well?

[demonfork]

There's an easy way to put the accusations to rest - stop joining so many games with NRs, Alster.

This is such a bullshit response!

[afroaction]

Level the playing field by joining games with equal or higher ranks to truly prove your skill and worth!

I offered this in callouts some time ago but surprise surprise he didnt have the guts to through with it. I agree with previous posters that nothing will happen with this case, it appears that KA has given him a guidline basically for how to pick on ? and he is merely sticking to it. Sadly he is just not as good as GLG at doing it.

Of course he didn't accept your challenge Hmsps, you're a not cook and way more skillful player then Alstergren will ever be. People like him, who cheat their way to top make me sick. They bend the rules just enough to gain an advantage.

Unfortunately there's way too much of this going on this site. Look at our infamous Conqueror "Gen.LeeGettinhed" and how he got there. Very poor reflection on this site and all its members to allow this to continue.

[Extreme Ways]

A bit surprised to see nine ?s games (although four is/was against multis, so hardly ?s in practice). In any event, these games covers quite a few days and just a fluctuation having joined a lot of games lately, both 1v1s and others. Looking at my game list, I don't see how this could be a farming case since games with ?s in them is a very small minority of the games in my game list. Joining games against ?s is allowed so long as it isn't systematic targeting of new recruits and I try to make sure I stay far away from such an amount of ?s so it could be considered anything close to systematic.

Yeah, of course they aren't too much NR's in your playlist, some might even played more games after you've played them!

[TheGeneral2112]

A bit surprised to see nine ?s games (although four is/was against multis, so hardly ?s in practice). In any event, these games covers quite a few days and just a fluctuation having joined a lot of games lately, both 1v1s and others. Looking at my game list, I don't see how this could be a farming case since games with ?s in them is a very small minority of the games in my game list. Joining games against ?s is allowed so long as it isn't systematic targeting of new recruits and I try to make sure I stay far away from such an amount of ?s so it could be considered anything close to systematic.

Yeah, of course they aren't too much NR's in your playlist, some might even played more games after you've played them!

This is also important. I believe he has played way more NRs than show, but they are no longer NRs now.

[GeneralRisk]

Whats with all the glg comparisons? Hasn't Alster been a conqueror long before as well?

If he was then they never gave him the medal.

[Evolution299]

Just to point out that the Alsters games against the ?'s in the original accusation are in the last 5 days. Who knows how many more of his games were against ?'s since when they have played their 5 games they change rank. For all we know 1000 of his games could have been against ?'s at the time and it will not show on his games played list since the badge will change.

.

[DiM]

Masli joined a couple of games with ? last week and in one, that he got beat in, he questions the player if he has another account..............http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=10420888

jocica2 does indeed look like a multi so masli's question is legitimate.

tell me what kind of new recruit creates (not joins) oasis, feudal and castle lands games and even with fog of war

[GeneralRisk]

Masli joined a couple of games with ? last week and in one, that he got beat in, he questions the player if he has another account..............http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=10420888

jocica2 does indeed look like a multi so masli's question is legitimate.

tell me what kind of new recruit creates (not joins) oasis, feudal and castle lands games and even with fog of war

Im not questioning that it could be a multi, I just thought it was strange that the first day masli returns from his absence he immediately joins games with ? s. Masli of all people should of been reluctant to join that game in particular.

[hmsps]

I just thought it was strange that the first day masli returns from his absence he immediately joins games with ? s. Masli of all people should of been reluctant to join that game in particular.[/quote]Would he be able to keep his rank if he didnt?

[IR1SH ACE]

This case has peaked my interest as it is closely related to what some other players (and we all know who they are) have been doing and getting away with for years now....I was already working my way through another players games in an attempt to see how many NR's they had played since joining the site and thought I could take a break from that low life and check out this guy....

so the OP has listed 9 games with NR's, I would like to add 10 more games to the OP and this is only in the LAST MONTH since this report was opened...

Game 10416387..................2012-01-11 19:12:55 - Game has been initialized
WARLORDe..............3 GP on 11 January 2012 18:03:08

Game 10392820...................2012-01-07 21:17:09 - Game has been initialized
hr.jakobsen..............3 GP on 07 January 2012 19:37:12

Game 10347828...................2011-12-30 23:34:53 - Game has been initialized
BenBrazos...................3 GP on 30 December 2011 22:56:35

Game 10269143........................2011-12-16 19:58:02 - Game has been initialized
mateja321.....................2 GP on 16 December 2011 18:40:48

Game 10368204...................2012-01-03 17:59:02 - Game has been initialized
The Mighty P...............1 GP on 03 January 2012 18:05:41(0 GP when this game started)

Game 10347533.....................2011-12-30 22:48:37 - Game has been initialized
tolemac........................1 GP on 31 December 2011 00:14:21 (0 GP when this game started)

Game 10300826......................2011-12-22 10:02:11 - Game has been initialized
eEagle.........................1 GP on 22 December 2011 10:06:52 (0 GP when this game started)

Game 10269426.......................2011-12-16 19:57:23 - Game has been initialized
richardk.........................1 GP on 20 December 2011 12:54:45 (0 GP when this game started)

Game 10366178................2012-01-03 09:52:18 - Game has been initialized
MyNamesJosh...............1 GP on 03 January 2012 08:44:42
(2012-01-04 03:22:36 - MyNamesJosh was kicked out for violating the rules)
2012-01-03 17:57:49 - alstergren: ah, a multi
2012-01-03 17:57:55 - alstergren: pretty obvious with clickies
(how did alster know he was a multi after only 1 move of the game....and why not say it when they both finished there first move....why did he wait till the end of his 2nd move 8 hours later to say it...must be good to have a MH as a mate)

what would have been funny here is if MyNamesJosh had of responed in the chat with...."ah, a farmer"...


Game 10267132..................2011-12-16 09:34:06 - Game has been initialized
maesteezyy................Frist and last game on the site
2011-12-16 15:27:59 - maesteezyy was kicked out for violating the rules in round - 1

this guy never even took a turn and was kicked out 6 hours after the start of this game and also 6 hours after joining the site....damn that was some fast work....

Alstergren has played THOUSANDS of games against a great diversity of ranks. This handful of ?'s that Alstergren has played against could hardly be considered a violation of the rule.

Im afraid this is more than a handful.....

For it to be systematic, I would assume that it would have to reach a relatively high % of games joined. I would, looking at past rulings I'm aware of, assume that systematic entails a double digit % (games joined against ?s) at least. E.g. (at a quick search): http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=159499&start=0&hilit=farming So no, don't think this complaint holds water. But what do I know, haven't paid much attention to the C&A Forum during the past year or so don't know if the decision practice regarding this rule has changed. Feel free to post a link in that case and substantiate the complaints with some facts taking my game history in account (and not just cherry picking a few games).

(Map Rank of Alstergren games for last moth since C&A report was opened)

92 games played in the last month since this C&A report was opened....and 19 games joined with NR's from 16th Dec 2011 till 15th Jan 2012...that's 21% of ur games against NR's in the last month alone.....
looks like double figures to me

I hope I have substantiate the complaint with some facts and taking your game history into account.....

Do I need to go check back another month?

FEEL FREE TO DOUBLE CHECK ALL THIS ON MAP RANK.......

Cheers Ace

P.S. there is probably about another 20/30 games in the last month that where played against people with 5 to 10 GP but I wont bother listing them because Im sure someone like jefjef will jump in and say its not farming....

[mviola]

Sigh - just got a head's up regarding this thread.

A bit surprised to see nine ?s games (although four is/was against multis, so hardly ?s in practice).I have played over 10,000 games and am aware of only two multi busts. What is happening with your games is very similar to masli and eye84,except your not a multi hunter. Your frequent partner eye84 is a mh and would not surprise me if he is helping you out in both your team games with him and your 1 v 1 games. In any event, these games covers quite a few days and just a fluctuation having joined a lot of games lately, both 1v1s and others. Looking at my game list, I don't see how this could be a farming case since games with ?s in them is a very small minority of the games in my game list. Joining games against ?s is allowed so long as it isn't systematic targeting of new recruits and I try to make sure I stay far away from such an amount of ?s so it could be considered anything close to systematic.

I keep KA's past ruling on this in mind to keep my game list away from anything near systematic:
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=118608&p=2618284&hilit=alstergren#p2624248Do you put this ruling under your pillow before you go to sleep?

But I don't mind throwing in a game or two with ?s. It's a pretty bad point loss if loosing but it adds, unique kills a ranking which I enjoy improving. We can all see you do not mind playing many games with ? and join even when asked not to.You mention loosing...here is from the urban dictionary1. loosing 230 up, 36 down

You never use this word so please spell "losing" correctly from now on.
You mean you are LOSING the war, not LOOSING you idiot!
buy loosing mugs & shirts
by Real World Person Sep 13, 2005 share this add a video
2. Loosing 81 up, 4 down

THANK YOU! In the last 6 months everyone seems to be writing 'loosing'. THE WORD YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IS LOSING.
L-O-S-I-N-G. You are losing the match, you are losing your talent, you are losing your virginity! The second definition is wrong, you would say 'loosening'You mention you want to add to your unique kills......I am certain there is a huge untapped resource of players ranked above the rank of cadet that you have yet to play

For it to be systematic, I would assume that it would have to reach a relatively high % of games joined. I would, looking at past rulings I'm aware of, assume that systematic entails a double digit % (games joined against ?s) at least. E.g. (at a quick search): http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=159499&start=0&hilit=farming So no, don't think this complaint holds water. But what do I know, haven't paid much attention to the C&A Forum during the past year or so don't know if the decision practice regarding this rule has changed. Feel free to post a link in that case and substantiate the complaints with some facts taking my game history in account (and not just cherry picking a few games).

I understand though that there has been some whining about the mods lately. Don't particularly enjoy seeing these posts connecting me to this whining. What is the deal here, "guilty" by association. Would appreciate to have this thread closed on the merits and not having it influenced by general complaints to influence the C&A mods.

Not sure what you mean by whining, unless you are talking about cheating of which may have gone unpunished but is well documentedFinally, I would not lose any sleep over this complaint because you are well connected and almost certainly well be free to continue your farming operations.

Grammar corrections coming from someone who writes English worse than some non native speakers on this site. I have now seen it all...

Are you another moron that looses games with bad dices?

Dice*
Die is singular, dice is plural. Thanks for trying though.

[eddie2]

i wonder if what i was told is true,

KoRT would like to welcome its newest member, Alstergren.

[alster]

so the OP has listed 9 games with NR's, I would like to add 10 more games to the OP and this is only in the LAST MONTH since this report was opened...

(how did alster know he was a multi after only 1 move of the game....and why not say it when they both finished there first move....why did he wait till the end of his 2nd move 8 hours later to say it...must be good to have a MH as a mate)

this guy never even took a turn and was kicked out 6 hours after the start of this game and also 6 hours after joining the site....damn that was some fast work....

Do I need to go check back another month?

FEEL FREE TO DOUBLE CHECK ALL THIS ON MAP RANK.......

Not sure what you're doing with map rank. But as far as I can tell, you're naming games at the bottom of page 2 of my game list. With end of page 2 being 200 games in total, these ? would be less than 10% of these played games. Everything is relative. To compare, took a look at the author's (TheGeneral2112) game pages. A total of 267 games and:
Game 10194389
Game 10194391
Game 10194394
Game 10194395
Game 10194396
Game 10202881
Game 10202878
Game 10202882
Game 10202884
Game 10203064
Game 10203065
Game 10203066
Game 10203068
Game 10203069

A total of 23 still visible ?s in these "classic" 5-player games that attract ?s. Probably quite a few more ?s in these games if one would go through and check the status when joining the games. I'm not bothered by this of course and don't think it's a case of systematic ?-playing. But I'm sure someone could have made a fuss about it when it happened.

I'd say that an example of "real" ?-farming (with 30% ?s) would be: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=93694&hilit=MOBAJOBG+Farming+%5Bwarned%5D#p2147993 (and no, the irony of the author of that post did not go by unnoticed).

And yes please, go back another month (or more). As far as I can tell looking at my game pages, the share of ?-games will drop pretty fast.

And yes - one of the mods gives me a head's up when he spots a multi to give me a chance to join his games before busting the account.... Really? I'd be conquerer by now with such a scheme... Again, I don't really see what you peoples' current beef with the C&A mods has anything to do with me.

[GeneralRisk]

so the OP has listed 9 games with NR's, I would like to add 10 more games to the OP and this is only in the LAST MONTH since this report was opened...

(how did alster know he was a multi after only 1 move of the game....and why not say it when they both finished there first move....why did he wait till the end of his 2nd move 8 hours later to say it...must be good to have a MH as a mate)

this guy never even took a turn and was kicked out 6 hours after the start of this game and also 6 hours after joining the site....damn that was some fast work....

Do I need to go check back another month?

FEEL FREE TO DOUBLE CHECK ALL THIS ON MAP RANK.......

And yes - one of the mods gives me a head's up when he spots a multi to give me a chance to join his games before busting the account

Thank you for being honest and admitting your dishonesty. I suppose in the face of so much damning evidence it leaves you few options. Was it eye84 that tipped you off?