Conquer Club

Eurasia Map [Old thread]

Have an idea for a map? Discuss ideas and concepts here.

Moderator: Cartographers

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg32

Postby natty dread on Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:51 pm

The Bison King wrote:I guess I'll choose to believe you.


About what?

isaiah40 wrote:You could change Israel to Levant.


Yes, I think I'll do that. That way I won't have to add an extra border to Near east.

isaiah40 wrote:If you take out the Sri Lanka - Indonesia connection then maybe lower the bonus to 7 from 8? Just a thought.


No, I don't want to do that. In my opinion the connection is relevant to the gameplay. It gives extra mobility to the extremities of the map and makes the southern areas less isolated.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg32

Postby natty dread on Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:03 pm

Done updating

Click image to enlarge.
image
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg32

Postby natty dread on Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:06 am

One thing I could do is change the sea route to go to Central India or Madras instead of Sri Lanka.

This would keep the border count the same, but maybe it'd make more sense to have a less remote region as the border.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg32

Postby The Bison King on Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:23 am

natty_dread wrote:
The Bison King wrote:I guess I'll choose to believe you.


About what?


making changes. Nevermind, just forget it.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class The Bison King
 
Posts: 1957
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: the Mid-Westeros

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg32

Postby natty dread on Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:31 am

The Bison King wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
The Bison King wrote:I guess I'll choose to believe you.


About what?


making changes. Nevermind, just forget it.


Forget what?

Anyway... what's your opinion on the sea route?
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg32

Postby natty dread on Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:23 am

Ok, I think the sea route in Madras makes more sense. I looked into it and there's Chennai Port in that area which is apparently one of the major ports of India, and one of the largest artificial ports in the world.

Click image to enlarge.
image
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg33

Postby natty dread on Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:48 am

I think I'm going to merge Syria & Levant. This would alleviate some of the concerns of Near East being a too hard bonus, and it would also reduce the amount of neutrals necessary for the map. Also there's really no gameplay nor thematic reason for them to be separate.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg33

Postby natty dread on Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:19 am

Done. With this, the neutrals are now: Mahgreb & African Horn: 1, Zavkhan: 2, Ireland: 3

Click image to enlarge.
image


If anyone has any more gameplay concerns, please let me know. I'd like to get the gameplay stamped...
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg33

Postby The Bison King on Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:02 pm

I remember you mentioned added a one way assault over the caucus mountains at one point. Whatever happened to that idea?
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class The Bison King
 
Posts: 1957
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: the Mid-Westeros

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg33

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:40 pm

The Bison King wrote:I remember you mentioned added a one way assault over the caucus mountains at one point. Whatever happened to that idea?

Supplemental to Marmara - Volgograd connection, or in place of it?


--Andy
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class AndyDufresne
 
Posts: 24935
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg33

Postby The Bison King on Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:48 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
The Bison King wrote:I remember you mentioned added a one way assault over the caucus mountains at one point. Whatever happened to that idea?

Supplemental to Marmara - Volgograd connection, or in place of it?


--Andy

Can't recall...
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class The Bison King
 
Posts: 1957
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: the Mid-Westeros

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg33

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:02 pm

are the bonus all defined and settled?

the amount of bonus is fairly generous. You tend to match borders with troop numbers but there are some places where that doesn't occur:

Central Asia - 4 troops for 5 borders
Central Siberia - 6 troops for 7 borders (with the addition of CS being a huge bonus area to consolidate and maintain)
East Siberia - 3 troops for 4 borders
Manchuria - 4 troops for 5 borders
West India - 4 troops for 5 borders (another fairly big area to consolidate and maintain for a low payback, considering the borders)
East India - 3 troops for 4 borders
Indochina - 3 troops for 4 borders (big area to consolidate and maintain, 6 regions..)

on the other hand you might have some exaggerated bonus for these areas, considering the bonus distribution:

Near East - 6 troops for 4 borders
European Russia - 7 troops for 6 borders ( I can understand this area having its bonus inflated due to its large extension, 10 regions here. But that should be coherent with other areas on the map like Central Siberia...)

Another aspect :
Comparing 3 troops bonus areas for instances, I'd definitely prefer to go for West Europe than the Far East (same borders but easier to conquer, 4 regions vs 6 regions). Same for East Siberia, Indochina or East India...

I think that there will be a tendency for players to fall for the West side of the map. The advantage might reside there...
Major Kabanellas
 
Posts: 1482
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:21 pm
Location: Porto, Portugal

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg33

Postby natty dread on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:46 pm

The Bison King wrote:I remember you mentioned added a one way assault over the caucus mountains at one point. Whatever happened to that idea?


I don't think that's a good idea at this point. Caucasus attacking Volgograd wouldn't make sense thematically, and Volgograd attacking Caucasus would again just increase the borders of Near East.

Kabanellas wrote:are the bonus all defined and settled?

the amount of bonus is fairly generous. You tend to match borders with troop numbers but there are some places where that doesn't occur:


Border count is important, however there are other factors that need to be considered. Like for example size, location, expansion potential...

Also, in a map of this size, I think it's more relevant to look at the superbonuses instead of individual bonuses. For example, Central & East Siberia - individually both seem undervalued but when you consider that they are likely to be held together, the total bonus is very appropriate for the total area.

Near East has a high bonus because of it's size and location between 3 strong super bonuses. It has no feasible ways to reduce the borders, and it's hard to conquer, I think 6 is appropriate for it. European Russia is the largest bonus on the map with 10 regions, also with a very central location. I'm not sure what to do with it, it could go 6 or 7.

Far East can maybe be increased to 4.

I'll also increase superbonuses of India & S.E. Asia by 1 each.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [16.1.12] pg33

Postby natty dread on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:58 pm

Here's the updated bonuses.

Click image to enlarge.
image
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [15.1.12] pg31

Postby iancanton on Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:58 am

natty_dread wrote:
iancanton wrote:there is no "thematic" argument for a sea route between sri lanka and west indonesia.

Sure there is. India connects to a place with huge Indian cultural influence. It totally makes sense.

india these days has virtually no influence on indonesia. there isn't even a single airline that flies directly between these two countries. madras port is fine, but to malaysia, not indonesia. malaysia has lots of indian influence, especially from the tamil culture of madras. this also fits with reducing the borders there and not making all of the eastern bonuses so hard.

i like the latest change to levant.

ian. :)
Image
User avatar
Brigadier iancanton
Foundry Foreman
Foundry Foreman
 
Posts: 2431
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:40 am
Location: europe

Re: Eurasia [17.1.12] pg33

Postby natty dread on Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:04 am

iancanton wrote:madras port is fine, but to malaysia, not indonesia.


Ok, I can live with that.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [17.1.12] pg33

Postby natty dread on Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:19 am

Done. Any other gameplay concerns or can we have this stamped?

Click image to enlarge.
image
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [17.1.12] pg33

Postby The Bison King on Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:33 am

Um just one. I think Far East should only be +3 since it's only 3 borders and on a corner.

Also it could be cool if there were mountains between, Tibet and Qinhai.

...I guess that's two actually...
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class The Bison King
 
Posts: 1957
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: the Mid-Westeros

Re: Eurasia [17.1.12] pg33

Postby natty dread on Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:10 am

I'll add the mountains, and I'll be reducing some bonuses all around... I think there's a bit of bonus bloat still on the map.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [17.1.12] pg33

Postby natty dread on Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:08 am

Bonuses reduced. Mountains added.

Click image to enlarge.
image
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [17.1.12] pg33

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:12 pm

I'll give the bonuses a good look over today or tomorrow! Good work,


--Andy
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class AndyDufresne
 
Posts: 24935
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo

Re: Eurasia [17.1.12] pg33

Postby iancanton on Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:25 pm

natty_dread wrote:I'd like to get the gameplay stamped...

there tends to be a lot of interest and comment from players on anything that resembles a world map. while this isn't quite a world map, over half of the world's people live in places represented here, so it's pretty close. not only that, but u've already shown that ur graphical skills have improved markedly since nordic countries, which ought to make this a fairly popular map choice as a variant of world 2.1 that covers a smaller area. as such, it will be a high-profile map and therefore imporant to ensure that all is as good as it can be. while we shouldn't be too impatient about moving it on (after all, it's been just over five weeks since it appeared in the drafting room), we are pretty close now.

with the inclusion of european russia, europe is complete, except for norway. norway ought to border russia. we already have two other maps where norway wrongly does not border russia. if u don't want norway to border russia for gameplay reasons, then put a patch of ice there instead to block the way.

i'm also happy with the middle east and indian pensinsula.

east china is still too difficult to play a meaningful role and i recommend splitting it into two bonuses: south china (hainan, guangdong, jiangxi and taiwan, taiwan being disputed with far east) and eastern china (beijing, shandong, henan and shaanxi).

northern russia shouldn't have so many sea routes. the sea is pack ice for most of the year, when movement is impossible by boat and very difficult by other means. please therefore cut severnaya-new siberian, novaya-severnaya and novaya-svalbard, which only make difficult bonuses even harder to hold while diverting troops away from the middle of the map. svalbard-severnaya serves a useful gameplay function, so let it remain.

ian. :)
Image
User avatar
Brigadier iancanton
Foundry Foreman
Foundry Foreman
 
Posts: 2431
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:40 am
Location: europe

Re: Eurasia [17.1.12] pg33

Postby natty dread on Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:15 pm

iancanton wrote:while we shouldn't be too impatient about moving it on (after all, it's been just over five weeks since it appeared in the drafting room), we are pretty close now.


Yeah I know, I don't want to be impatient with this, I want to do it right... I guess I'm just kind of anxious to start working on the small version, as it'll probably take some tweaking on the small to get everything fitting properly.

iancanton wrote:with the inclusion of european russia, europe is complete, except for norway. norway ought to border russia. we already have two other maps where norway wrongly does not border russia. if u don't want norway to border russia for gameplay reasons, then put a patch of ice there instead to block the way.


I know about the Norway border, it's just that the strip of land connecting Norway to Murmansk is so small that it'd be really hard to see... especially on the small. I can try an impassable there, see if it works.

iancanton wrote:east china is still too difficult to play a meaningful role and i recommend splitting it into two bonuses: south china (hainan, guangdong, jiangxi and taiwan, taiwan being disputed with far east) and eastern china (beijing, shandong, henan and shaanxi).


Well I think it's not that difficult, it's actually a good place to expand to once you hold manchuria or far east...

Anyway: I don't think I want to add any more shared regions to the map - they tend to increase the bonus bloat, and there's currently a logical system of one shared region per superbonus, I'd rather keep it at that. Besides, small areas like Taiwan would work very poorly as shared regions - the stripes would be hard to see on such a small area. Also, having Taiwan as part of China can be seen as a political statement, just like the Israel issue...

If an extra bonus is to be added to China, I'm afraid it would have to be another 3-region bonus, ie: Hainan, Guangdong, Sichuan. This would be worth +2, and I would then reduce East China to +4, while keeping the superbonus at 24.

iancanton wrote:northern russia shouldn't have so many sea routes. the sea is pack ice for most of the year, when movement is impossible by boat and very difficult by other means.


Sorry but that's not entirely true. There are such things as icebreakers. They're used in lots of the northern seas, including the arctic, to travel seas that are frozen, and to clear paths for regular ships to travel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaker

iancanton wrote:please therefore cut severnaya-new siberian, novaya-severnaya and novaya-svalbard, which only make difficult bonuses even harder to hold while diverting troops away from the middle of the map. svalbard-severnaya serves a useful gameplay function, so let it remain.


I have to disagree partially. Novaya-severnaya and novaya-svalbard both serve a purpose. They allow some mobility to the north side of the map, and they also work to the other direction: they make some of the small bonuses in europe more accessible from other parts of the map.

That said, I can remove the route between Severnaya and Siberian islands. This will reduce the mobility from Europe to East Siberia. I could probably also remove the Svalbard - Novaya connection. But I think the others should stay.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [17.1.12] pg33

Postby natty dread on Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:35 pm

Ok, here's an update. With this new bonus division, the neutrals will now be: Ireland & Hainan = 3, Zavkhan & Egypt = 2

Click image to enlarge.
image
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 12877
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked

Re: Eurasia [18.1.12] pg34

Postby BadgerJelly on Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:54 pm

Whens this likely to be playable?
Could I get an invite PLEASE?
User avatar
Private BadgerJelly
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:51 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Melting Pot: Map Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users